Re: Fbdev-backend removal from Weston (Re: Upcoming release)
On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 4:09:44 AM EST Pekka Paalanen wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 22:46:02 -0500 > nerdopolis wrote: > > > On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 9:55:15 AM EST Pekka Paalanen wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 10:17:32 +0200 > > > Pekka Paalanen wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > do you actually have a use case for that? It's ok if you do, we can > > > > keep it around for some more, but the simple fact that some hardware > > > > exists that does not have a working DRM driver is not enough. There > > > > should be users too. > > > > > > > > The fbdev-backend certainly has its shortcomings, and I don't mean just > > > > the lack of multi-output or monitor hotplug or GPU acceleration or > > > > tearing or timings based on nothing but timers; I recall VT-switching > > > > being broken for years now, and it doesn't (cannot?) use logind to open > > > > the FB devices. Did I forget some? > > > > > Hi > > > > Well, TBH, It's just my quazi-distribution Live CD that I still maintain... > > It falls back to the Framebuffer on systems (or seats) that don't have > > Kernel Mode Setting. The number of users now probably is low... > > Right. Would you be able to do a test? Disable fbdev on your distro and > see if anyone complains? > TBH, the user base is likely not as high as it was in 2012. It's prime focus was to allow users to test anything Wayland live. So I don't think that would be a good way to tell, since now there are other more popular ways people have been using it now. > In fact, would be nice if all distributions did that test. I'm not in > that much hurry to delete the backend yet. > > > VT switching works great. It works without weston-launch, and I can switch > > away > > to a second instance of Weston using the Framebuffer, without them stepping > > on > > each other, and I can switch back to the original one, and it continues > > working > > > > I do have to create a udev file that sets > > SUBSYSTEM=="graphics", KERNEL=="fb*", TAG+="uaccess" > > though... > > Yes, that rule or similar is required because logind does not deal fb > devices IIRC and Weston certainly doesn't ask. > > Are you relying on logind or running Weston privileged to have VT > switching working? > I am making no changes to logind. I am not running Weston as root. I am not even granting the plugdev group access to the /dev/fbX devices (It's a "hidden" boot option, disabled by default). Just systemd-run that starts it as a User account. > It's been a long time since I tried VT-switching with fbdev, but it > didn't work with logind back then: > https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/issues/78 > Could it have been fixed in logind instead? > Yeah, I wasnt even aware of that one. It was probably logind. Weston is working fine. I can switch between the framebuffer backed login greeter, and a frame buffer backed login session, and they don't draw on each other. Weston even logs when the session becomes active and inactive, so it is aware. It even works on seats that do NOT have TTYs, since my login manager is multiseat aware now, I can test that :) > > Thanks, > pq ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: Fbdev-backend removal from Weston (Re: Upcoming release)
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 10:17:32 +0200 Pekka Paalanen wrote: keep it around for some more, but the simple fact that some hardware exists that does not have a working DRM driver is not enough Fbdev worked out of the box on my Bay Trail system, but DRM kept freezing where only SysRq helped. It seems an issue in Mesa, downgrade to 18.1.9 and exporting WESTON_DISABLE_ATOMIC=y works, but I haven't been able to track and report, because nothing weird got in the logs. By all means delete this backend if it's tech debt, though some users are there yet. Looking forward to new releases so I can unmask >=media-video/mpv-0.29, which wants xdg_wm_base. ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: Fbdev-backend removal from Weston (Re: Upcoming release)
On Tue, 2019-01-22 at 22:46 -0500, nerdopolis wrote: > Well, TBH, It's just my quazi-distribution Live CD that I still maintain... > It falls back to the Framebuffer on systems (or seats) that don't have > Kernel Mode Setting. The number of users now probably is low... I think the biggest class of fbdev users on reasonably modern hardware are people who've said nomodeset to avoid a drm driver bug and so fall down to efifb. I wonder if it's worth making a trivial efikms driver for that case. - ajax ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: Fbdev-backend removal from Weston (Re: Upcoming release)
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 22:46:02 -0500 nerdopolis wrote: > On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 9:55:15 AM EST Pekka Paalanen wrote: > > > > On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 10:17:32 +0200 > > Pekka Paalanen wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > do you actually have a use case for that? It's ok if you do, we can > > > keep it around for some more, but the simple fact that some hardware > > > exists that does not have a working DRM driver is not enough. There > > > should be users too. > > > > > > The fbdev-backend certainly has its shortcomings, and I don't mean just > > > the lack of multi-output or monitor hotplug or GPU acceleration or > > > tearing or timings based on nothing but timers; I recall VT-switching > > > being broken for years now, and it doesn't (cannot?) use logind to open > > > the FB devices. Did I forget some? > > Hi > > Well, TBH, It's just my quazi-distribution Live CD that I still maintain... > It falls back to the Framebuffer on systems (or seats) that don't have > Kernel Mode Setting. The number of users now probably is low... Right. Would you be able to do a test? Disable fbdev on your distro and see if anyone complains? In fact, would be nice if all distributions did that test. I'm not in that much hurry to delete the backend yet. > VT switching works great. It works without weston-launch, and I can switch > away > to a second instance of Weston using the Framebuffer, without them stepping on > each other, and I can switch back to the original one, and it continues > working > > I do have to create a udev file that sets > SUBSYSTEM=="graphics", KERNEL=="fb*", TAG+="uaccess" > though... Yes, that rule or similar is required because logind does not deal fb devices IIRC and Weston certainly doesn't ask. Are you relying on logind or running Weston privileged to have VT switching working? It's been a long time since I tried VT-switching with fbdev, but it didn't work with logind back then: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/issues/78 Could it have been fixed in logind instead? Thanks, pq pgpofY2eJYo8X.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: Fbdev-backend removal from Weston (Re: Upcoming release)
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 9:55:15 AM EST Pekka Paalanen wrote: > Let's make the title more catchy, so that people who care about fbdev > would notice. > > > On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 10:17:32 +0200 > Pekka Paalanen wrote: > > > On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 20:30:52 -0500 > > nerdopolis wrote: > > > > > On Friday, January 18, 2019 5:20:40 PM EST Derek Foreman wrote: > > > > Also, I'd like to float the idea of removing the fbdev backend for this > > > > release (or the next). The bulk of the interesting features target the > > > > drm backend, and it feels like fbdev can sometimes be a bit of a pain to > > > > update when changes are required elsewhere. Any strong opinions either > > > > way? > > > > > I feel like the fbdev backend is a good fallback still. Maybe not for > > > Virtual > > > Box anymore, since there is now a driver for it in Mainline (I haven't > > > tested > > > it personally though) ...Currently the Framebuffer backend is the only > > > way to > > > get Weston working on some obscure hardware such as UDL/DisplayLink2 > > > devices. > > > > Hi, > > > > do you actually have a use case for that? It's ok if you do, we can > > keep it around for some more, but the simple fact that some hardware > > exists that does not have a working DRM driver is not enough. There > > should be users too. > > > > The fbdev-backend certainly has its shortcomings, and I don't mean just > > the lack of multi-output or monitor hotplug or GPU acceleration or > > tearing or timings based on nothing but timers; I recall VT-switching > > being broken for years now, and it doesn't (cannot?) use logind to open > > the FB devices. Did I forget some? > > > > > > Thanks, > > pq > Hi Well, TBH, It's just my quazi-distribution Live CD that I still maintain... It falls back to the Framebuffer on systems (or seats) that don't have Kernel Mode Setting. The number of users now probably is low... VT switching works great. It works without weston-launch, and I can switch away to a second instance of Weston using the Framebuffer, without them stepping on each other, and I can switch back to the original one, and it continues working I do have to create a udev file that sets SUBSYSTEM=="graphics", KERNEL=="fb*", TAG+="uaccess" though... Thanks ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Fbdev-backend removal from Weston (Re: Upcoming release)
Let's make the title more catchy, so that people who care about fbdev would notice. On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 10:17:32 +0200 Pekka Paalanen wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 20:30:52 -0500 > nerdopolis wrote: > > > On Friday, January 18, 2019 5:20:40 PM EST Derek Foreman wrote: > > > Also, I'd like to float the idea of removing the fbdev backend for this > > > release (or the next). The bulk of the interesting features target the > > > drm backend, and it feels like fbdev can sometimes be a bit of a pain to > > > update when changes are required elsewhere. Any strong opinions either > > > way? > > > I feel like the fbdev backend is a good fallback still. Maybe not for > > Virtual > > Box anymore, since there is now a driver for it in Mainline (I haven't > > tested > > it personally though) ...Currently the Framebuffer backend is the only way > > to > > get Weston working on some obscure hardware such as UDL/DisplayLink2 > > devices. > > Hi, > > do you actually have a use case for that? It's ok if you do, we can > keep it around for some more, but the simple fact that some hardware > exists that does not have a working DRM driver is not enough. There > should be users too. > > The fbdev-backend certainly has its shortcomings, and I don't mean just > the lack of multi-output or monitor hotplug or GPU acceleration or > tearing or timings based on nothing but timers; I recall VT-switching > being broken for years now, and it doesn't (cannot?) use logind to open > the FB devices. Did I forget some? > > > Thanks, > pq pgp6Onkuf6qm9.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
