[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
Jospeh: a three column with a header and footer Bloody hell! I thought I told you to start off simple! This is a major piece of CSS work Joseph, but it can be done. Just expect to be pulling your hair out an awful lot. Cheryl's right though - http://positioniseverything.net have done some great work getting around bugs and building robust design templates so have a look over there. Also try http://glish.com/css/ and http://www.bluerobot.com/web/layouts/. Best of luck, and you know where we are! MOU The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
Thanks Cheryl, that is quite some site! I see a very good, time-saving template that should be perfect. The template idea is something I am only just getting into. Am I right that IDs can appear only once on each page? So any repeats, like top and tail explanatory texts would have to be class defined? Hmmm. I didn't need to ask, you have already answered it. Which, the thought having found its way round the cavernous emptiness of the grey (gray) cell store, means it has sunk in !:-). Joseph Might want to get in the habit of anything that maybe moved to the web use an _ or - instead of a space. For a 3 column header/footer layout that is very robust I'd suggest using one of the ones at http://positioniseverything.net Big John and Holly have pretty much worked the bugs or at least well documented the bugs and workarounds for various methods. I'd also suggest using IDs for the main section definitions. After all you are going to use masthead, sidebar, main, sidebar2, footer or whatever you name them only once on each page. That helps in keeping the structure firmly in mind. Cheryl D. Wise Certified Professional Web Developer MS-MVP-FrontPage www.wiserways.com mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 713.353.0139 Office -Original Message- From: Joseph Harris Cheryl, Yes, very much so. Thank you. When I tried the ps it didn't do that! You see that this is very early, checking that I understand and can put it all together. The plan is a three column with a header and footer, and I have just been glancing at HTML dog which offers very clear and easy notes/tutorials. But not the point about margins and position:absolute. So without your comment I would have wondered... The colour outlines won't be in the final of course, and it will be with php generated content. The left column is site links, the right column other links, and I was thinking about height to see if I could make no scroll pages, but this sample page would be one of the shortest, so that idea is out of the window (pardon the pun). I am now a little confused about the position and particularly position:absolute; but I reckon if I don't use it that will be wisest! Sorry about the %20. I use spaces often for archiving, and was being lazy in transferring the file to the server. Again many thanks. With luck I'll have the basic site shape and content organised by the end of the week (though it is a busy one) and then can turn to the php - mysql ?:-(. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
Wow! You all believe in giving Homework.Now I am spoilt for choice. I'll probably take the first 3-col from p.i.e. that is confidently asserted to work in almost everything.Though I'm wondering now about putting the top and tail content in the middle column... But I have promised to do another site (or sub-site) that will be mostly pics, and a two column (simple, MOU, I heard - simple) so that should keep me asking questions for a couple of years... Joseph Jospeh: a three column with a header and footer Bloody hell! I thought I told you to start off simple! This is a major piece of CSS work Joseph, but it can be done. Just expect to be pulling your hair out an awful lot. Cheryl's right though - http://positioniseverything.net have done some great work getting around bugs and building robust design templates so have a look over there. Also try http://glish.com/css/ and http://www.bluerobot.com/web/layouts/. Best of luck, and you know where we are! MOU The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] W3C - are they serious?
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beertastic.co.ukcharset=%28detect+automatically%29doctype=%28detect+automatically%29 Hi there... I've jsut been put forward for a job, provided I quickly clean up hte code on ym home page to ensure that no errors are being kick up... So, I cleaned loads of stupid errors, but still got the one at teh link above... It says that the IMG tag cannot have the name attribute... If that's correct, how do I do rollovers, and tell the javascript where to look? Thoughts? * The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. *** The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: W3C - are they serious?
You use ID. For simple rollovers I use CSS and don't worry about an ID. For dropdowns I use Son of Suckerfish http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ Cheryl D. Wise Certified Professional Web Developer MS-MVP-FrontPage www.wiserways.com mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 713.353.0139 Office -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beertastic.co.ukcharset= %28detect+automatically%29doctype=%28detect+automatically%29 Hi there... I've jsut been put forward for a job, provided I quickly clean up hte code on ym home page to ensure that no errors are being kick up... So, I cleaned loads of stupid errors, but still got the one at teh link above... It says that the IMG tag cannot have the name attribute... If that's correct, how do I do rollovers, and tell the javascript where to look? Thoughts? The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
-Original Message- From: Joseph Harris Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 6:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css I've put the page up on http://www.smilepoetryweekly.com/master%20-%20developing%20-%20css.htm if you care to have a look you can see how it is shaping. === A word about headings: an element which has actual semantic meaning. Headings are not intended as visual elements for setting font size. A heading is intended as an organizational device. Headings are nested such that all subheadings should relate back to the principal heading. In other words, anything following an h1 should relate to that h1 unless and until another h1 is encountered in the document. The W3C makes this almost clear in the discussion of headings at: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5 The discussion of headings implies that the first heading must always be an h1 so unless Joseph has already declared an h1, say on the home page as Smile Poetry, the use of an h2 for the first poem title would be incorrect, semantically. And of course if one argues that a document is a page and not an entire site, then each page would have to have an h1 before any subheadings could be used which makes Joseph's use of h1 as a poem title correct with whichever definition of document is used. One reason for all of that is that a user agent may use the headings to construct a table of contents for the site, according to the specs. Hence the semantic value of headings. In a similar vein, the reliance on anonymous boxes set off by span tags is not a good structure. Clearly what the document has is paragraphs relating to a central theme -- the poem identified in the h1 heading. So while span is technically correct here because anonymous boxes are allowed, it would add meaning and structure to the document to use the paragraph tag. In addition, since the paragraph and div tags are both block level, margin and padding could be applied to set spacing. This argument also applies to the opening paragraph in the div with its span tag. Put the class central in a paragraph tag. Again it will add meaning to the page. In fact all of the span tags should be paragraph tags. The reason for all this is so that a user agent of some sort -- browser, spider, researcher, etc -- can examine the page and find some clues as to the meaning of the page.. A search agent using xml could therefore extract a an h1 tag which is a poem title indicating the focus of the page and some supportive textual sample in a paragraph tag which would provide a flavour of your site. And of course if you were not a sighted user, the same structure would help make sense out of the page. And that is the purpose of xhtml and css in the semantic web: structural elements the predictable meaning of which provide clues to textual meaning when those clues are interpreted by a human. Joseph, that human-machine interaction is something a table design can never provide and is why table based designs are inherently flawed and inferior. drew The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: W3C - are they serious?
Tris, It says that the IMG tag cannot have the name attribute... If that's correct, how do I do rollovers, Try using the id attribute instead, I think that's considered valid. and tell the javascript where to look? Meet your new best friend: http://mozilla.org/docs/dom/domref/dom_doc_ref48.html Of course you could just use CSS :-) Cheers Jon The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css Umm, wouldn't we be right back at the span tag then? ;-) Absolutely not! As rudy said, use a class for the h2. Don't style the heading just add a class the heading on the appropriate pages. This way on other pages the default settings or other classes can be used. drew - Original Message - From: rudy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:44 AM Subject: [wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css ... styling the h2 tag to create poem title attributes would result in all other h2 tags having that style as well, even those used in their structural role instead of as a poem title, which may or may not fit into that position in the heirarchy. not if you use a class for the poem title h2s ;o) . The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM . To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%% To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with. * The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM * To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%% To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
No you apply the class to the h2 or other toy. Cheryl D. Wise Certified Professional Web Developer MS-MVP-FrontPage www.wiserways.com mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 713.353.0139 Office -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Umm, wouldn't we be right back at the span tag then? ;-) The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: Donated computer
I disagree, unless you are running a bunch of graphics apps 512 ram is adequate on XP and more than 98 can use effectively. My Son's XP Pro machine has 368 and he runs games on it. His machine is a member of our domain (a hand me down and back-up in case one of the others is out of service}. Gaming has much more ram requirements than office Machines. Depending on the speed of the Celeron it may or may not be worth upgrading to XP or 2000. Cheryl D. Wise Certified Professional Web Developer MS-MVP-FrontPage www.wiserways.com mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 713.353.0139 Office -Original Message- From: Scott Glasgow What are you willing to spend and how much do you need the PC? 512 MB is sufficient to run XP in a workstation role. A PCI network card (Ethernet) can be had for $12-20. Unless you have a site license with a spare unused user, XP Pro will set you back a couple of hundred (I've seen the upgrade for $179. YMMV). The modem isn't a problem, and may be a bonus, since you can, if you wish, set the machine up for fax. Figure approximately $200 - 250 to get the OS upgraded and the PC network-capable. Is that a reasonable cost in view of your needs? Cheers, Scott The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
OK, perhaps I'm not following this well. Are you saying that instead of
span class=poemTitle
we have
h2 class=poemTitle
for the headings which are also poemTitles? Also, if the poemTitle is not
second in importance in the page heirarchy, are we not obviating the
structural meaning of the heading tag?
Cheers,
Scott
- Original Message -
From: Trusz, Andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:53 AM
Subject: [wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:50 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
Umm, wouldn't we be right back at the span tag then? ;-)
Absolutely not! As rudy said, use a class for the h2. Don't style the
heading just add a class the heading on the appropriate pages. This way on
other pages the default settings or other classes can be used.
drew
- Original Message -
From: rudy
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:44 AM
Subject: [wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
... styling the h2 tag to create
poem title attributes would result in all other h2 tags having that
style
as well, even those used in their structural role instead of as a poem
title, which may or may not fit into that position in the heirarchy.
not if you use a class for the poem title h2s
;o)
. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM .
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[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
OK, perhaps I'm not following this well. Are you saying that ... h2 class=poemTitle for the headings which are also poemTitles? yes, exactamundo Also, if the poemTitle is not second in importance in the page heirarchy, are we not obviating the structural meaning of the heading tag? well, sorta, but that's a separate discussion you could either add an H1 or else change the H2s to H1s p.s. please snip your last post had the WDVL footer 4 times rudy The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: Donated computer
I must be stammering or something today. This is what I said: 512 MB is sufficient to run XP in a workstation role. Your reply: I disagree, unless you are running a bunch of graphics apps 512 ram is adequate on XP and more than 98 can use effectively. Last time I looked, sufficient and adequate were pretty darned close in meaning. :-) You're right about 98; I believe I read that it can only make use of 256, and not even all of that completely effectively. If all they have in mind is office productivity apps (word processing, spreadsheets, etc.), the machine will probably be fine as is. Toss a cheap network card in there, run a phone line to it if they want to use it for fax, and it should hum along nicely without any other hardware or OS upgrades. Cheers, Scott - Original Message - From: Cheryl D Wise [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 12:14 PM Subject: [wdvltalk] Re: Donated computer I disagree, unless you are running a bunch of graphics apps 512 ram is adequate on XP and more than 98 can use effectively. My Son's XP Pro machine has 368 and he runs games on it. His machine is a member of our domain (a hand me down and back-up in case one of the others is out of service}. Gaming has much more ram requirements than office Machines. Depending on the speed of the Celeron it may or may not be worth upgrading to XP or 2000. Cheryl D. Wise Certified Professional Web Developer MS-MVP-FrontPage www.wiserways.com mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 713.353.0139 Office -Original Message- From: Scott Glasgow What are you willing to spend and how much do you need the PC? 512 MB is sufficient to run XP in a workstation role. A PCI network card (Ethernet) can be had for $12-20. Unless you have a site license with a spare unused user, XP Pro will set you back a couple of hundred (I've seen the upgrade for $179. YMMV). The modem isn't a problem, and may be a bonus, since you can, if you wish, set the machine up for fax. Figure approximately $200 - 250 to get the OS upgraded and the PC network-capable. Is that a reasonable cost in view of your needs? Cheers, Scott . The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM . To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%% To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
Structural meaning stays the same, it is the presentation that changes. all it adds is usual style. Cheryl D. Wise Certified Professional Web Developer MS-MVP-FrontPage www.wiserways.com mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 713.353.0139 Office -Original Message- From: Scott Glasgow OK, perhaps I'm not following this well. Are you saying that instead of span class=poemTitle we have h2 class=poemTitle for the headings which are also poemTitles? Also, if the poemTitle is not second in importance in the page heirarchy, are we not obviating the structural meaning of the heading tag? The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
OK, that's what I was thinking. But, the way this thread (or this part of it, anyway) got started was a comparison between span class=poemTitleThe Raven/span and h2The Raven/h2 with respect to brevity. If we're now talking instead about h2 class=poemTitleThe Raven/h2 I would say that 'tain't that much briefer, and I would still prefer the use of span for this purpose, since it accomplishes the objective and requires no adjustment or accommodation of the meaning of the heirarchical tags. Call it a personal preference, if you wish, since either approach will work. :-) Cheers, Scott - Original Message - From: rudy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 12:25 PM Subject: [wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css OK, perhaps I'm not following this well. Are you saying that ... h2 class=poemTitle for the headings which are also poemTitles? yes, exactamundo Also, if the poemTitle is not second in importance in the page heirarchy, are we not obviating the structural meaning of the heading tag? well, sorta, but that's a separate discussion you could either add an H1 or else change the H2s to H1s p.s. please snip your last post had the WDVL footer 4 times rudy ::snip:: The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
-Original Message-
From: Scott Glasgow
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 12:18 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
OK, perhaps I'm not following this well. Are you saying that instead of
span class=poemTitle
we have
h2 class=poemTitle
for the headings which are also poemTitles? Also, if the poemTitle is not
second in importance in the page heirarchy, are we not obviating the
structural meaning of the heading tag?
Cheers,
Scott
That would be yes to both.
Classes seem to work best when applied to elements not to define an element.
The reason being just what is illustrated in this case. On page you might
need a p in italic so just add a class for italic instead of having a
complicated qualified name to identify just that one paragraph.
I'd go so far as to argue the better approach for most sites, since many
consist of a core of more or less set pages with supplementary pages which
come and go as needed, is to have a generic set of classes which can be
applied in multiple class fashion to block tags. Something like this:
.cent{text-align:center;}
.slight{font-size:1.2em;}
.dual{float:left; width:48%;}
p class=cent slight dualblah/p
This results in a floated left paragraph (float two next to each other and
you've got a two equal column layot) with centered text and slightly larger
and darker text. Combining classes is a wonderfully flexible way to avoid
monster constructions like:
div.illegal-example p {text-align:center; font-size:1.2em; float:left;
width:48%
}
(Just for clarity that is a selector listed on the dtd pages of the w3c
although I've changed the definition to meet my example.)
As to the h2 itself, yes the document, defined as a page only, does need an
h1 for proper hierarchical structuring. Or if document is the entire site,
then no it doesn't since there already is an h1 but the page could still
have an h1.
drew
- Original Message -
From: Trusz, Andrew
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:53 AM
Subject: [wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:50 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
Umm, wouldn't we be right back at the span tag then? ;-)
Absolutely not! As rudy said, use a class for the h2. Don't style the
heading just add a class the heading on the appropriate pages. This way on
other pages the default settings or other classes can be used.
drew
- Original Message -
From: rudy
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:44 AM
Subject: [wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
... styling the h2 tag to create
poem title attributes would result in all other h2 tags having that
style
as well, even those used in their structural role instead of as a poem
title, which may or may not fit into that position in the heirarchy.
not if you use a class for the poem title h2s
;o)
. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM .
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[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
I would say that 'tain't that much briefer, and I would still prefer the use of span for this purpose, since it accomplishes the objective and requires no adjustment or accommodation of the meaning of the heirarchical tags. Call it a personal preference, if you wish, since either approach will work. oh, they both work, but if you care about semantics, you will always go for the structural tags, which are semantically rich tip: search engines love structural tags, and will rank you a lot higher if you use them than if you use spans but i guess it's your choice ;o) The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
Good point; I hadn't remembered or considered that. Must come from the milieu in which I've worked for the last nine months. All of our pages use NOINDEX, NOFOLLOW, and NOARCHIVE. Our apps are proprietary and non-public; search engine ranking is not something we seek. Rather, we actively discourage it. Not that it would do a lot of good to come upon one of our pages via a search engine, since unless you're a customer (our customers are large EDI-capable companies) you're not going to see anything or be able to go anywhere or do anything on the site. There is precisely one password-protected entry point. Even using the Back button while in the app tosses you completely out, requiring re-logon and navigation through the app to get back to where you were. Still, that is something to keep in mind should I be doing any development outside this somewhat... rarified? isolated? environment in the future, since SEO will no doubt be an important issue in that event. One tends to discount or forget things that one doesn't use or consider regularly. Coming here to wdvltalk helps keep me from getting too far out into the ozone. ;-) Cheers, Scott - Original Message - From: rudy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 1:20 PM Subject: [wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css I would say that 'tain't that much briefer, and I would still prefer the use of span for this purpose, since it accomplishes the objective and requires no adjustment or accommodation of the meaning of the heirarchical tags. Call it a personal preference, if you wish, since either approach will work. oh, they both work, but if you care about semantics, you will always go for the structural tags, which are semantically rich tip: search engines love structural tags, and will rank you a lot higher if you use them than if you use spans but i guess it's your choice ;o) . The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM . To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%% To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
Thank you all for a fascinating discussion. I was early aware of the H value in SEs but hadn't appreciated the structure points. Poems will mainly appear on their own pages so h1 is going to be right for the title; class or ID will be needed because I use a distinct heading style and IE, Opera and Firefox all seem happy with it. The really big gain from the all css aproach is, I now see, that the SE can early be fed the main content of the page which gives a better chance of good rankings for appropriate keywords and phrases. I was just starting to understand the p tag and you have clarified its value further. So div and p are the major building blocks which are placed and styled by the css. p is also a content tag with h and span doing the special jobs with img of course. I am being drawn to an amazingly spare layout, and, although it looks a bit bare to me, I think it may well be very effective. Further sight of it soon. (I am quite impressed with myself, by the way, that, though I had much of how to get there wrong, I had grasped the fundamentals of how to make the basic layout ;-)). Joseph The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: font meets font in css
Web pages are made up of block elements like div, hx (x being 1-6 like you would use on a outline, remember those?), p, tables and lists. Inline elements like table headers/data cells and span. Mixed together you get a structured document that should make sense if you look at it like that outline I mentioned earlier. By using the appropriate structure you show the relative importance of each item which helps search engines in determining how they should rank you against other sites with the same words (over simplified and there are algorithms that change frequently on heading to other text on a page). If there will only be one poem on a page instead of a bunch of classes you can use contextual selectors for the major page elements. So that an h2 in the main content area would have the formatting you choose for a poem without requiring a class and an h2 in the sidebar would have another style based on its container. That's when it can get truly elegant. Cheryl D. Wise Certified Professional Web Developer MS-MVP-FrontPage www.wiserways.com mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 713.353.0139 Office -Original Message- From: Joseph Harris Thank you all for a fascinating discussion. I was early aware of the H value in SEs but hadn't appreciated the structure points. Poems will mainly appear on their own pages so h1 is going to be right for the title; class or ID will be needed because I use a distinct heading style and IE, Opera and Firefox all seem happy with it. The really big gain from the all css aproach is, I now see, that the SE can early be fed the main content of the page which gives a better chance of good rankings for appropriate keywords and phrases. I was just starting to understand the p tag and you have clarified its value further. So div and p are the major building blocks which are placed and styled by the css. p is also a content tag with h and span doing the special jobs with img of course. I am being drawn to an amazingly spare layout, and, although it looks a bit bare to me, I think it may well be very effective. Further sight of it soon. (I am quite impressed with myself, by the way, that, though I had much of how to get there wrong, I had grasped the fundamentals of how to make the basic layout ;-)). The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] pre in css
I noticed that Cheryl's reworking of my first attempt used br / to set out the poetry lines. Is there no equivalent to pre tag in css? I haven't spotted anything, and finding it if it exists will mean looking, well, I don't know... To br / a 100 line verse is not my idea of a fun outing :-(I may be looking at a total of about 4000 lines! ::-( Joseph The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: pre in css
Joseph,
css has the equivalent of kerning, [word spacing] which may be useful to you
for poems, while the equivalent of pre is 'white-space' BUT support is
not universal..
white-space values: pre|nowrap|normal
eg: div.poem { white-space: pre; font-family: monospace; }
would cause text nested inside a poem class div element to be treated as
though it were nested in a pre element with all spaces displayed [ NOT
collapsed ] and all hard returns treated as line breaks, which I think is
exactly what you are looking for in your query?
At the risk of sending you off on even more tangents, other options which
may be more semantically 'correct' than span are definition lists
dldtdd/dd/dt/dl and of course lists, both of which would
alow you to do interesting things with layout, but with this caveat: they
are not necessarily the most appropriate semantically, just better than
span, but I suppose a haiku could be considered a list? [rhetorical
question]
hth
- Original Message -
From: Joseph Harris
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 12:31 PM
Subject: [wdvltalk] pre in css
: I noticed that Cheryl's reworking of my first attempt used br / to set
out
: the poetry lines. Is there no equivalent to pre tag in css?
:
: I haven't spotted anything, and finding it if it exists will mean looking,
: well, I don't know... To br / a 100 line verse is not my idea of a fun
: outing :-(I may be looking at a total of about 4000 lines! ::-(
:
: Joseph
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[wdvltalk] Re: pre in css
On the other hand I see pre is still in the armoury (if html dog is to be believed); please confirm it is ...please Joseph I noticed that Cheryl's reworking of my first attempt used br / to set out the poetry lines. Is there no equivalent to pre tag in css? I haven't spotted anything, and finding it if it exists will mean looking, well, I don't know... To br / a 100 line verse is not my idea of a fun outing :-(I may be looking at a total of about 4000 lines! ::-( Joseph . The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM . To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%% To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Re: pre in css
Michael,
tomorrow I shall experiment with whitespace; it looks interesting. The ds
and the ul li I think I will give a miss to; it would be even more work
than br - though I admit there are poem forms that might respond well to
unusual setting.
Haiku may, I think, be considered something that rhymes with list. (Not
really. I am getting quite fond of this format
div and p and h
from which I shape my new site
explorer plays not).
Joseph
Joseph,
css has the equivalent of kerning, [word spacing] which may be useful to
you
for poems, while the equivalent of pre is 'white-space' BUT support is
not universal..
white-space values: pre|nowrap|normal
eg: div.poem { white-space: pre; font-family: monospace; }
would cause text nested inside a poem class div element to be treated as
though it were nested in a pre element with all spaces displayed [ NOT
collapsed ] and all hard returns treated as line breaks, which I think is
exactly what you are looking for in your query?
At the risk of sending you off on even more tangents, other options which
may be more semantically 'correct' than span are definition lists
dldtdd/dd/dt/dl and of course lists, both of which would
alow you to do interesting things with layout, but with this caveat: they
are not necessarily the most appropriate semantically, just better than
span, but I suppose a haiku could be considered a list? [rhetorical
question]
hth
- Original Message -
From: Joseph Harris
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 12:31 PM
Subject: [wdvltalk] pre in css
: I noticed that Cheryl's reworking of my first attempt used br / to set
out
: the poetry lines. Is there no equivalent to pre tag in css?
:
: I haven't spotted anything, and finding it if it exists will mean
looking,
: well, I don't know... To br / a 100 line verse is not my idea of a
fun
: outing :-(I may be looking at a total of about 4000 lines! ::-(
:
: Joseph
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[wdvltalk] Re: pre in css
well for long poems it will save untold keystrokes... something else to add to your development to do list: media and print style sheets, lol - the only reason that was brought to mind is that WDVL in their write up on print and media style sheets, used poetry as an example - you may find that interesting, they used spans within the body as a styling mechanism amongst other things. - Original Message - From: Joseph Harris Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 1:25 PM Subject: [wdvltalk] Re: pre in css : Michael, : : tomorrow I shall experiment with whitespace; it looks interesting --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 17/09/04 The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] RE: pre in css
You can use pre but the sample you had up for us to look at used br so that's what I used. Pre is an html tag and not css though you can actually style it if you choose. Cheryl D. Wise Certified Professional Web Developer MS-MVP-FrontPage www.wiserways.com mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 713.353.0139 Office -Original Message- From: Joseph Harris I noticed that Cheryl's reworking of my first attempt used br / to set out the poetry lines. Is there no equivalent to pre tag in css? I haven't spotted anything, and finding it if it exists will mean looking, well, I don't know... To br / a 100 line verse is not my idea of a fun outing :-(I may be looking at a total of about 4000 lines! ::-( The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] OT
I will be leaving the group. I'm still waiting for surgery, so nothing new yet. I want to thank all of you on the list, please forgive me if I don't name you personally, for helping me in so many ways to improve my web development skills. I've learned so many things from this group that I can't name them all here. I have kept many copies of the posts as they have given me tremendous help. I feel that my web development has improved since I joined this list. I know that there's so much more that I could learn from this group, and I wish all of you the very best. thanks again everyone, Jan The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
[wdvltalk] Jac's designs
Jac, you kick .. with your work. Your skills and talent are wonderful. regards and best wishes. Jan The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Your Posts To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To set a personal password send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words: set WDVLTALK pw=yourpassword in the body of the email. To change subscription settings to the wdvltalk digest version: http://wdvl.internet.com/WDVL/Forum/#sub http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
