Re: [web2py] Re: Giving a talk promoting web2py over Django
Hi gm, they're mostly just things promoting my project; but happy to share. http://goo.gl/gnyWP On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:27 AM, gm01 ghcm...@gmail.com wrote: Love to see your slides you presented. Are they available somewhere on line? Thanks, gm On Wednesday, August 1, 2012 11:46:48 AM UTC-4, Alec Taylor wrote: Tonight I'm going to present my little social-network to a user-group. I'm going to show them my code, some slides, the website, the mobile apps and tell them when Django isn't as good as web2py. Are there any particular features of web2py you would recommend I highlight? - Also, are there any major drawbacks in Django that web2py has that is easily advertisable? (I have a slide or two on this, but I'm sure as longtime users/developers of web2py you'd have more to pitch-in) Thanks for all information, Alec Taylor -- --
[web2py] Re: Giving a talk promoting web2py over Django
Love to see your slides you presented. Are they available somewhere on line? Thanks, gm On Wednesday, August 1, 2012 11:46:48 AM UTC-4, Alec Taylor wrote: Tonight I'm going to present my little social-network to a user-group. I'm going to show them my code, some slides, the website, the mobile apps and tell them when Django isn't as good as web2py. Are there any particular features of web2py you would recommend I highlight? - Also, are there any major drawbacks in Django that web2py has that is easily advertisable? (I have a slide or two on this, but I'm sure as longtime users/developers of web2py you'd have more to pitch-in) Thanks for all information, Alec Taylor --
[web2py] Re: Giving a talk promoting web2py over Django
well done. :-) On Thursday, 2 August 2012 08:47:14 UTC-5, Alec Taylor wrote: Thanks for all the advice, I think the talk went quite well. It seems that the hardcore Django people aren't going to be switching, the Flask people are considering and everyone else is saying how evil the views are On the bright side, it seems to be the framework everyone will now recommend for people new to Python. Also, I got two job offers from it On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:46 AM, Alec Taylor alec.tayl...@gmail.comwrote: Tonight I'm going to present my little social-network to a user-group. I'm going to show them my code, some slides, the website, the mobile apps and tell them when Django isn't as good as web2py. Are there any particular features of web2py you would recommend I highlight? - Also, are there any major drawbacks in Django that web2py has that is easily advertisable? (I have a slide or two on this, but I'm sure as longtime users/developers of web2py you'd have more to pitch-in) Thanks for all information, Alec Taylor --
Re: [web2py] Re: Giving a talk promoting web2py over Django
Massimo, about hot install applications, it's true just if you use default routes, right? Or there's some way to do that using custom routes? -- Vinicius Assef On 08/01/2012 02:23 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: I really have nothing to add but some history. I was a Django programmer (although never a Django contributor) and I have developed web sites for the United Nations in Django. I have taught Django here at DePaul University. I started web2py as a teaching because I found the learning curve with Django was too steep. Moreover when web2py was created Django was not the same as today. It did not have the template escaping on by default (web2py did), it had a bug in CSRF protection (web2py's one always worked), did not have migration (still does not but now there is third party solution), did not support multiple database connections (there was as Django fork but it took long time to be merged), did not support multiple projects (web2py always did), did not support left joins and aggregates (web2py always did). Django always supported less database engine than web2py (and some not very well, for example web2py generates better SQL code for pagination in Oracle). Django always had and still has a more polised and customizable admin (equivalent to web2py's appadmin) and a better interface for many-to-many relations. They are philosophically differences: Django preferes explicit is better than implicit so you have do define lots of boilerplate web2py says do not repeat yourself so you have lots of default behavior (magic?) but documented and backward compatible. Other communities have used various arguments to criticize some web2py's design decisions. All design decisions have pros and cons. Some of the criticism has legs and some has not. What is important is that those decisions were not motivated by ignorance but by carefully considering the alternatives. As a result of those design decision web2py is the only framework that allows hot install and uninstall of apps without restarting the web server (with any web server) and supports multiple projects under one web2py instance without library conflicts. I also want to stress that our community is very friendly. We have always shown great respect for other people's work and we have tried to learn from them. We have taken ideas from Django, TG, Flask, etc and we proudly acknowledged it. Massimo On Wednesday, 1 August 2012 11:55:32 UTC-5, Anthony wrote: If it's a Django-friendly crowd, it might also be helpful to be prepared to handle the inevitable criticisms that will come. The big issues that tend to arise are (a) global objects/lack of imports/lack of explicitness/too much magic, (b) use of exec, and (c) pure Python in views. The links below address these and other criticisms. * http://www.quora.com/Is-web2py-a-good-Python-web-framework/answer/Anthony-Bastardi http://www.quora.com/Is-web2py-a-good-Python-web-framework/answer/Anthony-Bastardi?__snids__=28309519#ans341179 (scroll a bit for response to criticism by Jacob Kaplan-Moss, creator of Django). * https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/web2py/uIYf-dTjd88/P8yxUQwTZk4J https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/web2py/uIYf-dTjd88/P8yxUQwTZk4J * http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3767009 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3767009 * http://www.web2py.com/AlterEgo/default/show/271 http://www.web2py.com/AlterEgo/default/show/271 * http://greg.thehellings.com/2011/01/python-web2py-or-django/#comment-546 http://greg.thehellings.com/2011/01/python-web2py-or-django/#comment-546 * http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-advantages-of-web2py-over-Django/answer/Daniel-Greenfeld/comment/478595 http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-advantages-of-web2py-over-Django/answer/Daniel-Greenfeld/comment/478595 (addressing criticism of pure Python in views) And a little support from Zed Shaw regarding magic: https://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/80415443558477825 https://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/80415443558477825, https://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/80418794526351360 https://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/80418794526351360 Anthony On Wednesday, August 1, 2012 11:46:48 AM UTC-4, Alec Taylor wrote: Tonight I'm going to present my little social-network to a user-group. I'm going to show them my code, some slides, the website, the mobile apps and tell them when Django isn't as good as web2py. Are there any particular features of web2py you would recommend I highlight? - Also, are there any major drawbacks in Django that web2py has that is easily advertisable? (I have a slide or two on this, but I'm sure as longtime users/developers of web2py you'd have more to pitch-in) Thanks for all information, Alec Taylor -- --
Re: [web2py] Re: Giving a talk promoting web2py over Django
hot install is always there and apps can come with their own app-level routes. The only issue is that a global route can mess up access to apps if not done properly. On Thursday, 2 August 2012 10:50:35 UTC-5, viniciusban wrote: Massimo, about hot install applications, it's true just if you use default routes, right? Or there's some way to do that using custom routes? -- Vinicius Assef On 08/01/2012 02:23 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: I really have nothing to add but some history. I was a Django programmer (although never a Django contributor) and I have developed web sites for the United Nations in Django. I have taught Django here at DePaul University. I started web2py as a teaching because I found the learning curve with Django was too steep. Moreover when web2py was created Django was not the same as today. It did not have the template escaping on by default (web2py did), it had a bug in CSRF protection (web2py's one always worked), did not have migration (still does not but now there is third party solution), did not support multiple database connections (there was as Django fork but it took long time to be merged), did not support multiple projects (web2py always did), did not support left joins and aggregates (web2py always did). Django always supported less database engine than web2py (and some not very well, for example web2py generates better SQL code for pagination in Oracle). Django always had and still has a more polised and customizable admin (equivalent to web2py's appadmin) and a better interface for many-to-many relations. They are philosophically differences: Django preferes explicit is better than implicit so you have do define lots of boilerplate web2py says do not repeat yourself so you have lots of default behavior (magic?) but documented and backward compatible. Other communities have used various arguments to criticize some web2py's design decisions. All design decisions have pros and cons. Some of the criticism has legs and some has not. What is important is that those decisions were not motivated by ignorance but by carefully considering the alternatives. As a result of those design decision web2py is the only framework that allows hot install and uninstall of apps without restarting the web server (with any web server) and supports multiple projects under one web2py instance without library conflicts. I also want to stress that our community is very friendly. We have always shown great respect for other people's work and we have tried to learn from them. We have taken ideas from Django, TG, Flask, etc and we proudly acknowledged it. Massimo On Wednesday, 1 August 2012 11:55:32 UTC-5, Anthony wrote: If it's a Django-friendly crowd, it might also be helpful to be prepared to handle the inevitable criticisms that will come. The big issues that tend to arise are (a) global objects/lack of imports/lack of explicitness/too much magic, (b) use of exec, and (c) pure Python in views. The links below address these and other criticisms. * http://www.quora.com/Is-web2py-a-good-Python-web-framework/answer/Anthony-Bastardi http://www.quora.com/Is-web2py-a-good-Python-web-framework/answer/Anthony-Bastardi?__snids__=28309519#ans341179 (scroll a bit for response to criticism by Jacob Kaplan-Moss, creator of Django). * https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/web2py/uIYf-dTjd88/P8yxUQwTZk4J https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/web2py/uIYf-dTjd88/P8yxUQwTZk4J * http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3767009 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3767009 * http://www.web2py.com/AlterEgo/default/show/271 http://www.web2py.com/AlterEgo/default/show/271 * http://greg.thehellings.com/2011/01/python-web2py-or-django/#comment-546 http://greg.thehellings.com/2011/01/python-web2py-or-django/#comment-546 * http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-advantages-of-web2py-over-Django/answer/Daniel-Greenfeld/comment/478595 http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-advantages-of-web2py-over-Django/answer/Daniel-Greenfeld/comment/478595 (addressing criticism of pure Python in views) And a little support from Zed Shaw regarding magic: https://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/80415443558477825 https://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/80415443558477825, https://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/80418794526351360 https://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/80418794526351360 Anthony On Wednesday, August 1, 2012 11:46:48 AM UTC-4, Alec Taylor wrote: Tonight I'm going to present my little social-network to a user-group. I'm going to show them my code, some slides, the website, the mobile
[web2py] Re: Giving a talk promoting web2py over Django
http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-advantages-of-web2py-over-Django On Wednesday, August 1, 2012 11:46:48 AM UTC-4, Alec Taylor wrote: Tonight I'm going to present my little social-network to a user-group. I'm going to show them my code, some slides, the website, the mobile apps and tell them when Django isn't as good as web2py. Are there any particular features of web2py you would recommend I highlight? - Also, are there any major drawbacks in Django that web2py has that is easily advertisable? (I have a slide or two on this, but I'm sure as longtime users/developers of web2py you'd have more to pitch-in) Thanks for all information, Alec Taylor --
[web2py] Re: Giving a talk promoting web2py over Django
Backward compatibilty is a strong plus for me especially for very old sites that you leave idle for a long time and then want to upgrade to the latest web2py version On Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:22:57 AM UTC+8, Anthony wrote: http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-advantages-of-web2py-over-Django On Wednesday, August 1, 2012 11:46:48 AM UTC-4, Alec Taylor wrote: Tonight I'm going to present my little social-network to a user-group. I'm going to show them my code, some slides, the website, the mobile apps and tell them when Django isn't as good as web2py. Are there any particular features of web2py you would recommend I highlight? - Also, are there any major drawbacks in Django that web2py has that is easily advertisable? (I have a slide or two on this, but I'm sure as longtime users/developers of web2py you'd have more to pitch-in) Thanks for all information, Alec Taylor --
[web2py] Re: Giving a talk promoting web2py over Django
If it's a Django-friendly crowd, it might also be helpful to be prepared to handle the inevitable criticisms that will come. The big issues that tend to arise are (a) global objects/lack of imports/lack of explicitness/too much magic, (b) use of exec, and (c) pure Python in views. The links below address these and other criticisms. - http://www.quora.com/Is-web2py-a-good-Python-web-framework/answer/Anthony-Bastardihttp://www.quora.com/Is-web2py-a-good-Python-web-framework/answer/Anthony-Bastardi?__snids__=28309519#ans341179 (scroll a bit for response to criticism by Jacob Kaplan-Moss, creator of Django). - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/web2py/uIYf-dTjd88/P8yxUQwTZk4J - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3767009 - http://greg.thehellings.com/2011/01/python-web2py-or-django/#comment-546 - http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-advantages-of-web2py-over-Django/answer/Daniel-Greenfeld/comment/478595 (addressing criticism of pure Python in views) And a little support from Zed Shaw regarding magic: https://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/80415443558477825, https://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/80418794526351360 Anthony On Wednesday, August 1, 2012 11:46:48 AM UTC-4, Alec Taylor wrote: Tonight I'm going to present my little social-network to a user-group. I'm going to show them my code, some slides, the website, the mobile apps and tell them when Django isn't as good as web2py. Are there any particular features of web2py you would recommend I highlight? - Also, are there any major drawbacks in Django that web2py has that is easily advertisable? (I have a slide or two on this, but I'm sure as longtime users/developers of web2py you'd have more to pitch-in) Thanks for all information, Alec Taylor --
[web2py] Re: Giving a talk promoting web2py over Django
I really have nothing to add but some history. I was a Django programmer (although never a Django contributor) and I have developed web sites for the United Nations in Django. I have taught Django here at DePaul University. I started web2py as a teaching because I found the learning curve with Django was too steep. Moreover when web2py was created Django was not the same as today. It did not have the template escaping on by default (web2py did), it had a bug in CSRF protection (web2py's one always worked), did not have migration (still does not but now there is third party solution), did not support multiple database connections (there was as Django fork but it took long time to be merged), did not support multiple projects (web2py always did), did not support left joins and aggregates (web2py always did). Django always supported less database engine than web2py (and some not very well, for example web2py generates better SQL code for pagination in Oracle). Django always had and still has a more polised and customizable admin (equivalent to web2py's appadmin) and a better interface for many-to-many relations. They are philosophically differences: Django preferes explicit is better than implicit so you have do define lots of boilerplate web2py says do not repeat yourself so you have lots of default behavior (magic?) but documented and backward compatible. Other communities have used various arguments to criticize some web2py's design decisions. All design decisions have pros and cons. Some of the criticism has legs and some has not. What is important is that those decisions were not motivated by ignorance but by carefully considering the alternatives. As a result of those design decision web2py is the only framework that allows hot install and uninstall of apps without restarting the web server (with any web server) and supports multiple projects under one web2py instance without library conflicts. I also want to stress that our community is very friendly. We have always shown great respect for other people's work and we have tried to learn from them. We have taken ideas from Django, TG, Flask, etc and we proudly acknowledged it. Massimo On Wednesday, 1 August 2012 11:55:32 UTC-5, Anthony wrote: If it's a Django-friendly crowd, it might also be helpful to be prepared to handle the inevitable criticisms that will come. The big issues that tend to arise are (a) global objects/lack of imports/lack of explicitness/too much magic, (b) use of exec, and (c) pure Python in views. The links below address these and other criticisms. - http://www.quora.com/Is-web2py-a-good-Python-web-framework/answer/Anthony-Bastardihttp://www.quora.com/Is-web2py-a-good-Python-web-framework/answer/Anthony-Bastardi?__snids__=28309519#ans341179 (scroll a bit for response to criticism by Jacob Kaplan-Moss, creator of Django). - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/web2py/uIYf-dTjd88/P8yxUQwTZk4J - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3767009 - http://www.web2py.com/AlterEgo/default/show/271 - http://greg.thehellings.com/2011/01/python-web2py-or-django/#comment-546 - http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-advantages-of-web2py-over-Django/answer/Daniel-Greenfeld/comment/478595 (addressing criticism of pure Python in views) And a little support from Zed Shaw regarding magic: https://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/80415443558477825, https://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/80418794526351360 Anthony On Wednesday, August 1, 2012 11:46:48 AM UTC-4, Alec Taylor wrote: Tonight I'm going to present my little social-network to a user-group. I'm going to show them my code, some slides, the website, the mobile apps and tell them when Django isn't as good as web2py. Are there any particular features of web2py you would recommend I highlight? - Also, are there any major drawbacks in Django that web2py has that is easily advertisable? (I have a slide or two on this, but I'm sure as longtime users/developers of web2py you'd have more to pitch-in) Thanks for all information, Alec Taylor --
[web2py] Re: Giving a talk promoting web2py over Django
I auditioned a lot of web frameworks in various languages. Web2py was the only one that allowed me to be instantly productive when it came to porting my PHP apps. On Wednesday, August 1, 2012 11:46:48 AM UTC-4, Alec Taylor wrote: Tonight I'm going to present my little social-network to a user-group. I'm going to show them my code, some slides, the website, the mobile apps and tell them when Django isn't as good as web2py. Are there any particular features of web2py you would recommend I highlight? - Also, are there any major drawbacks in Django that web2py has that is easily advertisable? (I have a slide or two on this, but I'm sure as longtime users/developers of web2py you'd have more to pitch-in) Thanks for all information, Alec Taylor --
