Re: D2W: Reading custom rule values in a custom property-level component
Hi David, On 08/06/2012, at 8:39 AM, David Holt wrote: My understanding of the docs is that you can use these ERDCustomComponents WITHOUT a d2wContext. This is achieved by pulling values first from the bindings, then from the d2wContext and finally from an extraBindings binding. Ah, thanks, that was lost on me. Alternatively have you tried subclassing a (ER)D2W(Stateless)Component instead? Works perfectly. Thanks a lot. -- Paul. http://logicsquad.net/ ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
I am going to write a WO book
Folks, after a lot of thinking back and forth I finally decided that the world needs another book about WebObjects. And for this I need your input/feedback. But first let me give some background on why I would do this I am a part time teacher and author of course books besides doing project work for customers. Just recently I have finished a course book about SSAD (yes, that old stuff that still has some importance) and am currently redoing a course book Intro to OO Programming with Java. The courses I teach are part of the formal training to become an application developer with an official diploma. This apprenticeship lasts two resp. four years and consists of 30+ modules plus an internship. I teach many of those modules and I can offer sometimes (as time permits) one of my student in internship in my company. Last year I had the opportunity to do a module OO-Multiuser Application with Relational Database. The topics are given by Swiss Federal regulations but the teacher/school is free to use whatever tools and environments they want. I decided to use WebObjects and particularly EOF (object relational mapping is a big part of this module). Somewhere in the basement I found a set of the old Programming WebObjects 1 course book by Apple from around 2001. The students liked what they learned (albeit some had problems with course material in English) and I started to think that we ought to have something like that old PWO stuff but based on the modern tools. That same course will be run again beginning of next year and I hope I will be assigned that course again (there is quite a chance to that). But we would have to have a proper course book in German. I intend to formalise this course and write the course book introducing WO. The book will be in a style that encourages reading (readable almost like a novel). It can be used as a course book in formal training but it will be written in such a way that it is suitable (and preferable) for self-teaching. Of course the book has to be done in German but I think I can do an English version in parallel. There are some specific requirements for the topics covered in that particular module. These could be left out in the English version but I think the two versions will share more than 80 percent of the content. Planned time frame is Q4/2012. The book will probably be available as an e-book. Maybe a print version is doable. The German version will be in print (but that will be the school's thing do do). I intend to follow loosely along the lines of the original Apple PWO 1 course. Here I have some requests to you folks out there: It is clear that all the tool specific things must be redone. What else would you consider to be important? WOnder? Probably, but how far should I go there? The book is clearly for the beginner, so I do not want to go into too much detail (hey there was a PWO 2 course once, there could be a followup book eventually...). E.g. as great as (ER)D2W is this should not be part of that book, neither should be REST, Ajax etc. I really want to stick to the original topics and adapt those to the modern world. I will include a chapter about setting up the development environment for both Mac OS X and Windows (I know the license states that one must not develop on non-Apple HW but the license does not state that one must learn on Apple HW only!) and a bit about deployment. Please let your suggestions and ideas come up. Either post here as replies or mail them directly to me. Thanks for your help, see you (at least some of you) in Montréal ---markus--- ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
I strongly suggest that you wait after WOWODC before making a decision. We are going to record the Boot Camp (hopefully we will not have recording problems) and Paul is covering what you want to cover too. You should talk to him at WOWODC. Folks, after a lot of thinking back and forth I finally decided that the world needs another book about WebObjects. And for this I need your input/feedback. But first let me give some background on why I would do this I am a part time teacher and author of course books besides doing project work for customers. Just recently I have finished a course book about SSAD (yes, that old stuff that still has some importance) and am currently redoing a course book Intro to OO Programming with Java. The courses I teach are part of the formal training to become an application developer with an official diploma. This apprenticeship lasts two resp. four years and consists of 30+ modules plus an internship. I teach many of those modules and I can offer sometimes (as time permits) one of my student in internship in my company. Last year I had the opportunity to do a module OO-Multiuser Application with Relational Database. The topics are given by Swiss Federal regulations but the teacher/school is free to use whatever tools and environments they want. I decided to use WebObjects and particularly EOF (object relational mapping is a big part of this module). Somewhere in the basement I found a set of the old Programming WebObjects 1 course book by Apple from around 2001. The students liked what they learned (albeit some had problems with course material in English) and I started to think that we ought to have something like that old PWO stuff but based on the modern tools. That same course will be run again beginning of next year and I hope I will be assigned that course again (there is quite a chance to that). But we would have to have a proper course book in German. I intend to formalise this course and write the course book introducing WO. The book will be in a style that encourages reading (readable almost like a novel). It can be used as a course book in formal training but it will be written in such a way that it is suitable (and preferable) for self-teaching. Of course the book has to be done in German but I think I can do an English version in parallel. There are some specific requirements for the topics covered in that particular module. These could be left out in the English version but I think the two versions will share more than 80 percent of the content. Planned time frame is Q4/2012. The book will probably be available as an e-book. Maybe a print version is doable. The German version will be in print (but that will be the school's thing do do). I intend to follow loosely along the lines of the original Apple PWO 1 course. Here I have some requests to you folks out there: It is clear that all the tool specific things must be redone. What else would you consider to be important? WOnder? Probably, but how far should I go there? The book is clearly for the beginner, so I do not want to go into too much detail (hey there was a PWO 2 course once, there could be a followup book eventually...). E.g. as great as (ER)D2W is this should not be part of that book, neither should be REST, Ajax etc. I really want to stick to the original topics and adapt those to the modern world. I will include a chapter about setting up the development environment for both Mac OS X and Windows (I know the license states that one must not develop on non-Apple HW but the license does not state that one must learn on Apple HW only!) and a bit about deployment. Please let your suggestions and ideas come up. Either post here as replies or mail them directly to me. Thanks for your help, see you (at least some of you) in Montréal ---markus--- ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca This email sent to prob...@macti.ca ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
ERXFetchSpecification fetchRange support
If anyone has time or interest in giving feedback on whether this commit is worthwhile, then please do comment: https://github.com/projectwonder/wonder/pull/213 Thanks, Kieran ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
Hi Markus, Good for you! Thank you for even thinking about this. You ask what you should say about WOnder? I'd recommend the following: 1) Defining what the project is and some history 2) Show how to integrate it in your app, the pre-requisites. 3) Leave it at that. You kind of have to do this. When you are using the modern tools new users can make either a pure Apple app or a WOnder App and they'll be curious. You should let them know that WOnder opens the doors to Web 2.0 and much more (fixing bugs and issues is also a big part that you get for free). Suggest they use it always, even if they don't consciously use pieces from it. As they tackle tough problems remind them Don't forget to dig through the WOnder treasure trove and ask questions on the list. More than likely, an answer to your problem already awaits! Cheers, -- Aaron ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Custom Entity Classes
Most of my entities are of class EOGenericRecord. I do have a few custom entity classes that extend EOGenericRecord. Sometimes, not always, the accessor methods for the to one relationships return null, even though I know the relationship exists. This usually only occurs when the app has 70 or more sessions running. The code for these custom entities was generated by the old EOModeler app. They simply return storedValueForKey. The foreign key of the relationship is marked as not null in the model, but the relationship is marked as optional. I know this is probably wrong, but the old EOModeler app let you get away with this, and i'm sure stuff would break if i changed it now. To get the related entity from an EO that is of type EOGenericRecord, I simply use valueForKey, and this never seems to return null. Since this always works, should my accessor methods in my custom entity classes return valueForKey instead of storedValueForKey? Would that fix my problem? smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? IMO wonder is the ONLY option to learn new. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
+1 Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? IMO wonder is the ONLY option to learn new. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca This email sent to prob...@macti.ca ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
+1 There is no sense in writing a pure WO app these days, IMO. On 2012-06-08, at 9:55 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: +1 Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? IMO wonder is the ONLY option to learn new. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca This email sent to prob...@macti.ca ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net This email sent to ch...@global-village.net -- Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. http://www.global-village.net/gvc/practical_webobjects smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
Hi Markus, Great idea! Videos are fine, but they scatter the content all over the place and you can't find things you need to reference quickly. I feel the same about ERD2W, the content is now all there in the recent WOWODC videos, but now a document is needed to tie it all together. See below: On 2012-06-08, at 5:48 AM, Markus Ruggiero wrote: Folks, after a lot of thinking back and forth I finally decided that the world needs another book about WebObjects. And for this I need your input/feedback. But first let me give some background on why I would do this I am a part time teacher and author of course books besides doing project work for customers. Just recently I have finished a course book about SSAD (yes, that old stuff that still has some importance) and am currently redoing a course book Intro to OO Programming with Java. The courses I teach are part of the formal training to become an application developer with an official diploma. This apprenticeship lasts two resp. four years and consists of 30+ modules plus an internship. I teach many of those modules and I can offer sometimes (as time permits) one of my student in internship in my company. Last year I had the opportunity to do a module OO-Multiuser Application with Relational Database. The topics are given by Swiss Federal regulations but the teacher/school is free to use whatever tools and environments they want. I decided to use WebObjects and particularly EOF (object relational mapping is a big part of this module). Somewhere in the basement I found a set of the old Programming WebObjects 1 course book by Apple from around 2001. The students liked what they learned (albeit some had problems with course material in English) and I started to think that we ought to have something like that old PWO stuff but based on the modern tools. That same course will be run again beginning of next year and I hope I will be assigned that course again (there is quite a chance to that). But we would have to have a proper course book in German. I intend to formalise this course and write the course book introducing WO. The book will be in a style that encourages reading (readable almost like a novel). It can be used as a course book in formal training but it will be written in such a way that it is suitable (and preferable) for self-teaching. Of course the book has to be done in German but I think I can do an English version in parallel. There are some specific requirements for the topics covered in that particular module. These could be left out in the English version but I think the two versions will share more than 80 percent of the content. Planned time frame is Q4/2012. The book will probably be available as an e-book. Maybe a print version is doable. The German version will be in print (but that will be the school's thing do do). I intend to follow loosely along the lines of the original Apple PWO 1 course. Here I have some requests to you folks out there: It is clear that all the tool specific things must be redone. What else would you consider to be important? WOnder? Definitely Wonder. I wouldn't want to start a new project without knowledge of: 1. Prototypes 2. Migrations 3. EOGenerate and the related templates so many amazing and time-saving things in here now like: .create .fetchSpec .fetchAll .fetchRequired .addTo .removeFrom 4. Importance of properties (setting database connection dictionary, for example) Greatly simplifying some of the old convoluted things for a beginner might be: ERXKey ERXQ (qualifying) EOQualifier qualifier = ERXQ.and(ERXQ.equals(name, Mike), ERXQ.isTrue(admin)); ERXS (sorting) Person.fetchSpec().qualify(Person.NAME.is(Mike)).sort(Person.NAME.asc()).fetchObjects(); David Probably, but how far should I go there? The book is clearly for the beginner, so I do not want to go into too much detail (hey there was a PWO 2 course once, there could be a followup book eventually...). E.g. as great as (ER)D2W is this should not be part of that book, neither should be REST, Ajax etc. I really want to stick to the original topics and adapt those to the modern world. I will include a chapter about setting up the development environment for both Mac OS X and Windows (I know the license states that one must not develop on non-Apple HW but the license does not state that one must learn on Apple HW only!) and a bit about deployment. Please let your suggestions and ideas come up. Either post here as replies or mail them directly to me. Thanks for your help, see you (at least some of you) in Montréal ---markus--- ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
Re: I am going to write a WO book
We just need people to finish this: http://wiki.wocommunity.org/display/WO/Learning+WebObjects+-+the+curriculum Hi Markus, Great idea! Videos are fine, but they scatter the content all over the place and you can't find things you need to reference quickly. I feel the same about ERD2W, the content is now all there in the recent WOWODC videos, but now a document is needed to tie it all together. See below: On 2012-06-08, at 5:48 AM, Markus Ruggiero wrote: Folks, after a lot of thinking back and forth I finally decided that the world needs another book about WebObjects. And for this I need your input/feedback. But first let me give some background on why I would do this I am a part time teacher and author of course books besides doing project work for customers. Just recently I have finished a course book about SSAD (yes, that old stuff that still has some importance) and am currently redoing a course book Intro to OO Programming with Java. The courses I teach are part of the formal training to become an application developer with an official diploma. This apprenticeship lasts two resp. four years and consists of 30+ modules plus an internship. I teach many of those modules and I can offer sometimes (as time permits) one of my student in internship in my company. Last year I had the opportunity to do a module OO-Multiuser Application with Relational Database. The topics are given by Swiss Federal regulations but the teacher/school is free to use whatever tools and environments they want. I decided to use WebObjects and particularly EOF (object relational mapping is a big part of this module). Somewhere in the basement I found a set of the old Programming WebObjects 1 course book by Apple from around 2001. The students liked what they learned (albeit some had problems with course material in English) and I started to think that we ought to have something like that old PWO stuff but based on the modern tools. That same course will be run again beginning of next year and I hope I will be assigned that course again (there is quite a chance to that). But we would have to have a proper course book in German. I intend to formalise this course and write the course book introducing WO. The book will be in a style that encourages reading (readable almost like a novel). It can be used as a course book in formal training but it will be written in such a way that it is suitable (and preferable) for self-teaching. Of course the book has to be done in German but I think I can do an English version in parallel. There are some specific requirements for the topics covered in that particular module. These could be left out in the English version but I think the two versions will share more than 80 percent of the content. Planned time frame is Q4/2012. The book will probably be available as an e-book. Maybe a print version is doable. The German version will be in print (but that will be the school's thing do do). I intend to follow loosely along the lines of the original Apple PWO 1 course. Here I have some requests to you folks out there: It is clear that all the tool specific things must be redone. What else would you consider to be important? WOnder? Definitely Wonder. I wouldn't want to start a new project without knowledge of: 1. Prototypes 2. Migrations 3. EOGenerate and the related templates so many amazing and time-saving things in here now like: .create .fetchSpec .fetchAll .fetchRequired .addTo .removeFrom 4. Importance of properties (setting database connection dictionary, for example) Greatly simplifying some of the old convoluted things for a beginner might be: ERXKey ERXQ (qualifying) EOQualifier qualifier = ERXQ.and(ERXQ.equals(name, Mike), ERXQ.isTrue(admin)); ERXS (sorting) Person.fetchSpec().qualify(Person.NAME.is(Mike)).sort(Person.NAME.asc()).fetchObjects(); David Probably, but how far should I go there? The book is clearly for the beginner, so I do not want to go into too much detail (hey there was a PWO 2 course once, there could be a followup book eventually...). E.g. as great as (ER)D2W is this should not be part of that book, neither should be REST, Ajax etc. I really want to stick to the original topics and adapt those to the modern world. I will include a chapter about setting up the development environment for both Mac OS X and Windows (I know the license states that one must not develop on non-Apple HW but the license does not state that one must learn on Apple HW only!) and a bit about deployment. Please let your suggestions and ideas come up. Either post here as replies or mail them directly to me. Thanks for your help, see you (at least some of you) in Montréal ---markus--- ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing
Re: I am going to write a WO book
+1. On Jun 8, 2012, at 1:16 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: +1 There is no sense in writing a pure WO app these days, IMO. On 2012-06-08, at 9:55 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: +1 Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? IMO wonder is the ONLY option to learn new. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca This email sent to prob...@macti.ca ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net This email sent to ch...@global-village.net -- Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. http://www.global-village.net/gvc/practical_webobjects ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kelleherk%40gmail.com This email sent to kelleh...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: I am going to write a WO book
I felt left out. :P +1 Long live WOnder! On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: +1. On Jun 8, 2012, at 1:16 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: +1 There is no sense in writing a pure WO app these days, IMO. On 2012-06-08, at 9:55 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: +1 Aren't pure Apple WO apps dead aside from legacy? IMO wonder is the ONLY option to learn new. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca This email sent to prob...@macti.ca ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net This email sent to ch...@global-village.net -- Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. http://www.global-village.net/gvc/practical_webobjects ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kelleherk%40gmail.com This email sent to kelleh...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lon.varscsak%40gmail.com This email sent to lon.varsc...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Custom Entity Classes
Hi Doug, On 2012-06-08, at 9:35 AM, doug andrews wrote: Most of my entities are of class EOGenericRecord. I do have a few custom entity classes that extend EOGenericRecord. Either your app is really simple, or you are doing it wrong. :-) Sometimes, not always, the accessor methods for the to one relationships return null, even though I know the relationship exists. This usually only occurs when the app has 70 or more sessions running. That sounds more like you are breaking EOF commandments and getting EOF state corruption due to concurrency conflicts. The code for these custom entities was generated by the old EOModeler app. They simply return storedValueForKey. That sounds correct. The foreign key of the relationship is marked as not null in the model, but the relationship is marked as optional. I know this is probably wrong, but the old EOModeler app let you get away with this, and i'm sure stuff would break if i changed it now. To get the related entity from an EO that is of type EOGenericRecord, I simply use valueForKey, and this never seems to return null. Since this always works, should my accessor methods in my custom entity classes return valueForKey instead of storedValueForKey? Would that fix my problem? No, that will cause infinite recursion as valueForKey will call your accessor methods which will call valueForKey which will call Chuck -- Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. http://www.global-village.net/gvc/practical_webobjects smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
