Re: Explaining the power of Direct to Web
Am 22.05.2006 um 04:08 schrieb Jerry W. Walker: Add the Project Wonder frameworks (as I understand) and it not only becomes robust, but comes with methods that are already available to do most anything one wants to do on the web. To substantiate this last claim, simply Google on the two phrases "Anjo Krank" and "Project Wonder" to see the number of questions that have hit this list in which Anjo's answer was "We've already done that in Project Wonder." Actually, the search phrase should be more along the line of "bla Project Wonder bla". Though some of us may tire of hearing that phrase from Anjo, Who's them?? Tell me and I'll sick my boys on 'em! he's provided a valuable service to the community to raise awareness of the incredible richness of Project Wonder when paired with D2W (for which it was originally created). AND IT'S ALL FREE (under the appropriate circumstances). Just how FREE can be shown with my new toy: bigbook:/Volumes/Home/Desktop/sloccount-2.26 ak$ ./sloccount /Users/ ak/Wonder [...] SLOCDirectory SLOC-by-Language (Sorted) 53694 Common java=53641,sh=53 10339 Adaptorsansic=10294,csh=24,sh=21 3460DynaReporting java=3460 2818Utilities ansic=760,ruby=755,perl=698,objc=571,java=34 2627Validityjava=2627 2445Experimentaljava=2445 1718Ajaxjava=1718 1698Build perl=1581,java=117 1267Applicationsjava=1267 1217SVGObjects java=1217 1187WOAdaptors java=1187 1011PlugIns java=1011 1003ExcelGeneration java=1003 723 PayPal java=723 0 CVS (none) 0 top_dir (none) Totals grouped by language (dominant language first): java: 70450 (82.68%) ansic:11054 (12.97%) perl: 2279 (2.67%) ruby: 755 (0.89%) objc: 571 (0.67%) sh: 74 (0.09%) csh: 24 (0.03%) Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC)= 85,207 Development Effort Estimate, Person-Years (Person-Months) = 21.28 (255.39) (Basic COCOMO model, Person-Months = 2.4 * (KSLOC**1.05)) Schedule Estimate, Years (Months) = 1.71 (20.54) (Basic COCOMO model, Months = 2.5 * (person-months**0.38)) Estimated Average Number of Developers (Effort/Schedule) = 12.43 Total Estimated Cost to Develop = $ 2,875,019 (average salary = $56,286/year, overhead = 2.40). SLOCCount, Copyright (C) 2001-2004 David A. Wheeler SLOCCount is Open Source Software/Free Software, licensed under the GNU GPL. SLOCCount comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, and you are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions as specified by the GNU GPL license; see the documentation for details. Please credit this data as "generated using David A. Wheeler's 'SLOCCount'." So basically you get in the amount of 3 million dollars, give or take a bit. Note that there is no "wo_count" tool in there, so the .html and .wod is not taken into the equation. I wouldn't be too amazed if that wasn't another million... Cheers, Anjo ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Explaining the power of Direct to Web
Before D2W came out I once created 5 CRUD apps with the older WebObjects wizard in 1/2 hour with three other managers arguing in my office over the look & feel of said CRUD app. It was one of the things that prevented us from migrating to another environment. Unfortunately, the J2EE zealots did ultimately carry the day, some two years later. -arturo On May 21, 2006, at 10:08 PM, Jerry W. Walker wrote: Hi, David, I think the comparison between CSS and D2W is imaginative and accurate as far as it goes, but badly undersells D2W. Without comparing it to CSS, I think its power can be understood by the following statements: * If a legacy database exists, or we create a new database, we can use WebObjects' EOModeler that uses the database (and the answers to a few simple questions in its wizard) to automatically derive an EOModel for that database that maps its tables, columns and attributes to a corresponding set of Java classes, instance variables and types with no programming on our part whatsoever. This typically takes an experienced WO developer a very few minutes to create an EOModel that doesn't seem very useful, but... * We can create a new D2W Java project in Xcode directly derived from the EOModel we just generated to completely create a web based CRUD (Create, Read, Update, Delete) editor to edit any attribute(s) in any row in any table in that database. This typically takes an experienced WO developer a very few seconds with no programming at all. The result is a new, scalable, Java, web based, graphic interface to our database typically created in less than 5 minutes from start to finish that may be enhanced and customized as we desire. This is about as RAD (Rapid Application Development) as you can get on the web today. More importantly, the resulting application is an enterprise class web server application rather than some cheap toy that will break down under load. Add the Project Wonder frameworks (as I understand) and it not only becomes robust, but comes with methods that are already available to do most anything one wants to do on the web. To substantiate this last claim, simply Google on the two phrases "Anjo Krank" and "Project Wonder" to see the number of questions that have hit this list in which Anjo's answer was "We've already done that in Project Wonder." Though some of us may tire of hearing that phrase from Anjo, he's provided a valuable service to the community to raise awareness of the incredible richness of Project Wonder when paired with D2W (for which it was originally created). AND IT'S ALL FREE (under the appropriate circumstances). Regards, Jerry On May 19, 2006, at 12:53 PM, David Holt wrote: After reading all the Direct to Web stuff I could get my hands on, I was trying to describe to my boss why we need to be looking at it and moving towards it. The metaphor I came up with was that D2W is like CSS for objects. I think that sort of describes its power, but I would be interested in how others make the argument for (ER)D2W to non-programmers (or programmers for that matter!). David -- It's like driving a car at night. You never see further than your headlights, but you can make the whole trip that way. E. L. Doctorow from Sunbeams: http://www.thesunmagazine.org ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ jerrywwalker%40gmail.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- __ Jerry W. Walker, WebObjects Developer/Instructor for High Performance Industrial Strength Internet Enabled Systems [EMAIL PROTECTED] 203 278-4085office ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ arturo%40ethicist.net This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Explaining the power of Direct to Web
Hi, David,I think the comparison between CSS and D2W is imaginative and accurate as far as it goes, but badly undersells D2W.Without comparing it to CSS, I think its power can be understood by the following statements: * If a legacy database exists, or we create a new database, we can use WebObjects' EOModeler that uses the database (and the answers to a few simple questions in its wizard) to automatically derive an EOModel for that database that maps its tables, columns and attributes to a corresponding set of Java classes, instance variables and types with no programming on our part whatsoever. This typically takes an experienced WO developer a very few minutes to create an EOModel that doesn't seem very useful, but... * We can create a new D2W Java project in Xcode directly derived from the EOModel we just generated to completely create a web based CRUD (Create, Read, Update, Delete) editor to edit any attribute(s) in any row in any table in that database. This typically takes an experienced WO developer a very few seconds with no programming at all.The result is a new, scalable, Java, web based, graphic interface to our database typically created in less than 5 minutes from start to finish that may be enhanced and customized as we desire. This is about as RAD (Rapid Application Development) as you can get on the web today. More importantly, the resulting application is an enterprise class web server application rather than some cheap toy that will break down under load.Add the Project Wonder frameworks (as I understand) and it not only becomes robust, but comes with methods that are already available to do most anything one wants to do on the web. To substantiate this last claim, simply Google on the two phrases "Anjo Krank" and "Project Wonder" to see the number of questions that have hit this list in which Anjo's answer was "We've already done that in Project Wonder."Though some of us may tire of hearing that phrase from Anjo, he's provided a valuable service to the community to raise awareness of the incredible richness of Project Wonder when paired with D2W (for which it was originally created).AND IT'S ALL FREE (under the appropriate circumstances).Regards,JerryOn May 19, 2006, at 12:53 PM, David Holt wrote:After reading all the Direct to Web stuff I could get my hands on, I was trying to describe to my boss why we need to be looking at it and moving towards it. The metaphor I came up with was that D2W is like CSS for objects. I think that sort of describes its power, but I would be interested in how others make the argument for (ER)D2W to non-programmers (or programmers for that matter!).David -- It's like driving a car at night. You never see further than your headlights, but you can make the whole trip that way. E. L. Doctorowfrom Sunbeams: http://www.thesunmagazine.org ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jerrywwalker%40gmail.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --__ Jerry W. Walker, WebObjects Developer/Instructor for High Performance Industrial Strength Internet Enabled Systems jerrywwalker@gee-em-aye-eye-ell.com 203 278-4085 office ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Explaining the power of Direct to Web
It's definitely CSS for objects. But in a sense it is also WO square: D2W = WO^2. That's because in concept D2W applies WebObject's page generation mechanism once more, at the component level. Instead of having to program an editor component for every entity in your model you use a generic editor that depending on the entity will show matching attribute editing fields.This reduces the number of pages you need to handcraft by a factor! The square factor :-) Rudi Angela On May 19, 2006, at 19:51, Pierce T. Wetter III wrote: On May 19, 2006, at 9:53 AM, David Holt wrote: After reading all the Direct to Web stuff I could get my hands on, I was trying to describe to my boss why we need to be looking at it and moving towards it. The metaphor I came up with was that D2W is like CSS for objects. I think that sort of describes its power, but I would be interested in how others make the argument for (ER) D2W to non-programmers (or programmers for that matter!). CSS for objects is a pretty good one-line answer. A longer one would be that D2W lets you describe the meta information about an object: How to format its data, how to label it, what data should be editable, etc. It can then build user interface from that description. Pierce ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/blue.moon% 40tiscali.nl This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Explaining the power of Direct to Web
On May 19, 2006, at 9:53 AM, David Holt wrote: After reading all the Direct to Web stuff I could get my hands on, I was trying to describe to my boss why we need to be looking at it and moving towards it. The metaphor I came up with was that D2W is like CSS for objects. I think that sort of describes its power, but I would be interested in how others make the argument for (ER)D2W to non-programmers (or programmers for that matter!). CSS for objects is a pretty good one-line answer. A longer one would be that D2W lets you describe the meta information about an object: How to format its data, how to label it, what data should be editable, etc. It can then build user interface from that description. Pierce ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Explaining the power of Direct to Web
David,I think people on the list could help out a lot better if we had an understanding of what you expect from D2W or any other WO technology. What do you need it to do? What kind of resources are available?KenOn May 19, 2006, at 12:53 PM, David Holt wrote:After reading all the Direct to Web stuff I could get my hands on, I was trying to describe to my boss why we need to be looking at it and moving towards it. The metaphor I came up with was that D2W is like CSS for objects. I think that sort of describes its power, but I would be interested in how others make the argument for (ER)D2W to non-programmers (or programmers for that matter!).David -- It's like driving a car at night. You never see further than your headlights, but you can make the whole trip that way. E. L. Doctorowfrom Sunbeams: http://www.thesunmagazine.org ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists%40anderhome.comThis email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Explaining the power of Direct to Web
After reading all the Direct to Web stuff I could get my hands on, I was trying to describe to my boss why we need to be looking at it and moving towards it. The metaphor I came up with was that D2W is like CSS for objects. I think that sort of describes its power, but I would be interested in how others make the argument for (ER)D2W to non-programmers (or programmers for that matter!).David -- It's like driving a car at night. You never see further than your headlights, but you can make the whole trip that way. E. L. Doctorowfrom Sunbeams: http://www.thesunmagazine.org ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
