Re: Does switching to servlet deployment serve a purpose?
Politics was our biggest motivator. Our software is deployed on customers servers and it was not an option to install a WO runtime everywhere. Its not ideal but deploying in a Tomcat type environment seems to work pretty well even when our app is scaled to pretty high loads Dov On 2/1/10 2:51 PM, "Hugi Thordarson" wrote: >>> The biggest things you lose is the built in load balancing and the >>> javamonitor. You will need to spawn your own instances and load balance them >>> externally. >> >> That seems like a rather big drawback. > > Indeed. I have however not checked out how this is handled by Glassfish. I > imagine there must be some sort of a load balancing architecture somewhere, > however. > > >>> Deployment turns into a single war file that is easy to do. It is much >>> easier to deploy a war versus setting up a wo deployment. >> >> With the full embedding now available in WOProject, I suspect that a fully >> embedded .woa may now be easier to deploy. You do still need to deploy the >> web server resources in a separate step. > > Indeed. We embed everything. And since we're not operating under heavy load, > we have the luxury of being able to ignore WS resources and just use app > resources. It's disgusting, I know - but as long as we can spare the cycles... > :). > > >>> The other big gain is support for non wo supported platforms like Linux, >>> solaris, and windows >> >> The only thing not cross platfom is mod_webobjects and that is fairly easy to >> build and mDimension kindly hosts several pre-built versions: >> http://webobjects.mdimension.com/wonder/mod_WebObjects/Apache2.2/ >> >> From what I have seen, the only real reasons to use servlet deployment are: >> - access to things like jsp tagging >> - deployment on hosting services that don't support WO (which would be most >> of them...) >> - deployment in a mixed environment where servlet deployment has been >> mandated as the standard >> >> At least as of a couple years ago, ITMS was using standard WO deployment. >> They need all the bang they can get, so if servlet was better I expect they >> would have used that. > > Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured. As usual, it mostly boils down to > politics, I can't find any actual technical reasons to switch deployment > environments. > > Thanks! > > Cheers, > - hugi ___ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/drosenberg%40inquira.com > > This email sent to drosenb...@inquira.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Does switching to servlet deployment serve a purpose?
>> The biggest things you lose is the built in load balancing and the >> javamonitor. You will need to spawn your own instances and load balance them >> externally. > > That seems like a rather big drawback. Indeed. I have however not checked out how this is handled by Glassfish. I imagine there must be some sort of a load balancing architecture somewhere, however. >> Deployment turns into a single war file that is easy to do. It is much >> easier to deploy a war versus setting up a wo deployment. > > With the full embedding now available in WOProject, I suspect that a fully > embedded .woa may now be easier to deploy. You do still need to deploy the > web server resources in a separate step. Indeed. We embed everything. And since we're not operating under heavy load, we have the luxury of being able to ignore WS resources and just use app resources. It's disgusting, I know - but as long as we can spare the cycles... :). >> The other big gain is support for non wo supported platforms like Linux, >> solaris, and windows > > The only thing not cross platfom is mod_webobjects and that is fairly easy to > build and mDimension kindly hosts several pre-built versions: > http://webobjects.mdimension.com/wonder/mod_WebObjects/Apache2.2/ > > From what I have seen, the only real reasons to use servlet deployment are: > - access to things like jsp tagging > - deployment on hosting services that don't support WO (which would be most > of them...) > - deployment in a mixed environment where servlet deployment has been > mandated as the standard > > At least as of a couple years ago, ITMS was using standard WO deployment. > They need all the bang they can get, so if servlet was better I expect they > would have used that. Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured. As usual, it mostly boils down to politics, I can't find any actual technical reasons to switch deployment environments. Thanks! Cheers, - hugi ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Does switching to servlet deployment serve a purpose?
On Feb 1, 2010, at 9:47 AM, Dov Rosenberg wrote: The biggest things you lose is the built in load balancing and the javamonitor. You will need to spawn your own instances and load balance them externally. That seems like a rather big drawback. Deployment turns into a single war file that is easy to do. It is much easier to deploy a war versus setting up a wo deployment. With the full embedding now available in WOProject, I suspect that a fully embedded .woa may now be easier to deploy. You do still need to deploy the web server resources in a separate step. The other big gain is support for non wo supported platforms like Linux, solaris, and windows The only thing not cross platfom is mod_webobjects and that is fairly easy to build and mDimension kindly hosts several pre-built versions: http://webobjects.mdimension.com/wonder/mod_WebObjects/Apache2.2/ From what I have seen, the only real reasons to use servlet deployment are: - access to things like jsp tagging - deployment on hosting services that don't support WO (which would be most of them...) - deployment in a mixed environment where servlet deployment has been mandated as the standard At least as of a couple years ago, ITMS was using standard WO deployment. They need all the bang they can get, so if servlet was better I expect they would have used that. Chuck On Feb 1, 2010, at 10:02 AM, "Hugi Thordarson" wrote: Hi all! Quick question. We're currently running a WO deployment architecture (wotaskd and JavaMonitor). Some of our developers are adamant about switching to using a servlet container for WO applications, specifically they want to switch to Glassfish. So, basically my questions are: 1) Is there anything gained by this change? 2) Is there anything lost by this change? 3) Does anyone here have experience running WO on Glassfish? 3) To sum it up: Should I care? Cheers, - hugi ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/drosenberg%40inquira.com This email sent to drosenb...@inquira.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net This email sent to ch...@global-village.net -- Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Does switching to servlet deployment serve a purpose?
Thanks for the reply Dov. Apparently Glassfish has a very nice GUI, so I understand it will replace JavaMonitor nicely. However, I have no idea if mod_servlet allows for load balancing. Why is a war file easier to deploy than a woa? And we don't gain anything platform-wise, WO runs fine on most any platform regardless of whether you're deploying your apps as servlets or not (we run CentOS Linux). Cheers, - hugi > The biggest things you lose is the built in load balancing and the > javamonitor. You will need to spawn your own instances and load balance them > externally. Deployment turns into a single war file that is easy to do. It is > much easier to deploy a war versus setting up a wo deployment. > > The other big gain is support for non wo supported platforms like Linux, > solaris, and windows > > Dov > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 1, 2010, at 10:02 AM, "Hugi Thordarson" wrote: > >> Hi all! >> Quick question. >> >> We're currently running a WO deployment architecture (wotaskd and >> JavaMonitor). Some of our developers are adamant about switching to using a >> servlet container for WO applications, specifically they want to switch to >> Glassfish. >> >> So, basically my questions are: >> >> 1) Is there anything gained by this change? >> 2) Is there anything lost by this change? >> 3) Does anyone here have experience running WO on Glassfish? >> 3) To sum it up: Should I care? >> >> Cheers, >> - hugi ___ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/drosenberg%40inquira.com >> >> This email sent to drosenb...@inquira.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Does switching to servlet deployment serve a purpose?
The biggest things you lose is the built in load balancing and the javamonitor. You will need to spawn your own instances and load balance them externally. Deployment turns into a single war file that is easy to do. It is much easier to deploy a war versus setting up a wo deployment. The other big gain is support for non wo supported platforms like Linux, solaris, and windows Dov Sent from my iPhone On Feb 1, 2010, at 10:02 AM, "Hugi Thordarson" wrote: Hi all! Quick question. We're currently running a WO deployment architecture (wotaskd and JavaMonitor). Some of our developers are adamant about switching to using a servlet container for WO applications, specifically they want to switch to Glassfish. So, basically my questions are: 1) Is there anything gained by this change? 2) Is there anything lost by this change? 3) Does anyone here have experience running WO on Glassfish? 3) To sum it up: Should I care? Cheers, - hugi ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/drosenberg%40inquira.com This email sent to drosenb...@inquira.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
