Re: [libreoffice-website] Update on Drupal Website Progress
Hi Michael, Thanks for this mail and writing out how it works/worked. Sometimes it obviously is difficult to explain in three lines what you want to say ;-) Regards, Cor Michael Wheatland wrote (25-11-10 11:21) Sorry about any confusion with this issue of Translations, localisation and internationalisation. The Drupal framework is very powerful in this respect and the confusion has developed due to the original decision to build the site in English and then reach out to the native language teams. Obviously a mistake as it seems that they currently feel left out. Let me reassure all those who have a stake in this that we WILL make sure Drupal works to suit all language groups requirements. We are still in the 'infrastructure' or behind the scenes stage and this is very important to get right before anything else. I will be very busy working over the next 4 days, but after that I will create an example presentation so that all language groups, the documentation team and the marketing team can see what has been built so far, what is planned and ***Where we need input***. I would like to discourage speculation until this is produced. There are quite a few long emails here, very few with the facts 100% right. Again, our fault for not approaching and explaining this to native language groups from the start. Thanks, Michael Wheatland -- - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] Update on Drupal Website Progress
Sorry about any confusion with this issue of Translations, localisation and internationalisation. The Drupal framework is very powerful in this respect and the confusion has developed due to the original decision to build the site in English and then reach out to the native language teams. Obviously a mistake as it seems that they currently feel left out. Let me reassure all those who have a stake in this that we WILL make sure Drupal works to suit all language groups requirements. We are still in the 'infrastructure' or behind the scenes stage and this is very important to get right before anything else. I will be very busy working over the next 4 days, but after that I will create an example presentation so that all language groups, the documentation team and the marketing team can see what has been built so far, what is planned and ***Where we need input***. I would like to discourage speculation until this is produced. There are quite a few long emails here, very few with the facts 100% right. Again, our fault for not approaching and explaining this to native language groups from the start. Thanks, Michael Wheatland -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] Update on Drupal Website Progress
Hi Bernhard, Am 24.11.2010 19:43, schrieb Bernhard Dippold: > http://www.libreoffice.org/ > > and it's pages like [...] > All these pages are mainly created in English, but can be translated > to any other language - keeping the structure and content of the pages. [...] > For any native language team the content of their language based > sub-site (for French http://fr.libreoffice.org, German > http://de.libreoffice.org and so on) will be created by themselves > and might be totally different from the content of any other native > lang page. Additionally, there can be special links from the NL site to translated pages in the main site. For example: The page http://www.test.libreoffice.org/download/ on the main site has a german translation inside the main site. When you browse http://www.de.test.libreoffice.org you can click on "Download" which actually leads you to the translated page inside the main page. However it appears to the user as if the german download page was inside the german NL site. Gruß Stefan -- LibreOffice - Die Freiheit nehm' ich mir! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] Update on Drupal Website Progress
Hi Sophie, all, I think there are still some misunderstandings in what Michael and the Drupal team are developing. I hope I can solve this by giving some examples. Please correct me if I'm the one misunderstanding the context... Sophie Gautier schrieb: Hi Michael, all, I'm sorry, I'm currently travelling and really very partially connected, but there is a point where I would like to give clarification: [...] (-) All languages will have the same content, some of which will be automatically translated so collaboration can occur across languages. (Forums, News, Extensions, Templates) Michael speaks here of the main site http://www.libreoffice.org/ and it's pages like http://www.libreoffice.org/about.html http://www.libreoffice.org/why.html and so on. Some international resources will be covered too: http://forum.libreoffice.org/ http://templates.libreoffice.org/ and the like. All these pages are mainly created in English, but can be translated to any other language - keeping the structure and content of the pages. Of course manual translation produces better results, but if there is no translation existent, the page stays in English. It might be translated to the language in question by a "google translate button" or something similar, but all of this stays on the main site. I assume that the website will present the main site in the language detected from the browser that can be modified manually. You do not mean that the sites in different languages will look the same with the same content? Only for the main site http://www.libreoffice.org Language projects need to have their own content and do not rely on automatic translation because it deliver very poor quality. For any native language team the content of their language based sub-site (for French http://fr.libreoffice.org, German http://de.libreoffice.org and so on) will be created by themselves and might be totally different from the content of any other native lang page. It's up to the team if a page like http://fr.libreoffice.org/why.html would look like http://www.libreoffice.org/why.html if looked at it with a French browser (or modified standard language). [...]But for the content, really each project should be able to manage it's own content. It stays independent - only the main page will get a translation that has not been possible at the main OOo page. Does this sound reasonable? I hope I got it right - if not, please correct me! Best regards Bernhard PS: To establish a consistent LibreOffice branding I'd really like to see common visuals and structures shared among all the different sub-sites of www.libreoffice.org. Therefore it is crucial to include all the feedback by the different language teams in the decision on how this visual identity design should look like. But that's another story - to be told on des...@libreoffice.org... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] Update on Drupal Website Progress
Hi Michael, all, On 22/11/2010 04:32, Michael Wheatland wrote: On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 2:31 AM, Sophie Gautier wrote: You do not mean that the sites in different languages will look the same with the same content? Language projects need to have their own content and do not rely on automatic translation because it deliver very poor quality. For the Drupal sites used on the OOo project, we manage the translation of the Drupal files on Pootle, so I think we can do the same here. But for the content, really each project should be able to manage it's own content. And thanks all for your work :) Kind regards Sophie Automatic Translation will only occur on things which are considered 'instant communication' such as forums, mailing lists, and such. Well, how will it works. We are used to have forums and mailing lists in our own languages, with hundreds of mails/questions per day. So how will it works between all the languages? For example between DE/FR/NL? We are building a FAQ from these exchanges or a knowledge base, how will it work? The main section of the site (ie product information, support pages etc.) will be manually translated either through pootle or directly on the site. If there is a page which does not have a native translation yet it will display in english and allow the user to offer a translation directly on the site if authorised as a translator. But what for a page which is in French and has no equivalent in English or is not relevant in Russian or in Sinhalese ? We do have contents relative to a dedicated language that do not concern others? And, for my own opinion, a fallback in English is just not acceptable. To summarise we will be maintaining the integrity and quality of all of the 'important' content while allowing cross-language communication in real time for community discussions. I envisage that this should break down a lot of barriers for people getting involved in the project. We break the barriers by providing support and content in the language of the user and the contributors. Several native language teams have already strong communities of users and contributors, this works really well for the OOo NLC and we should not break this imho. For the French team for example, they are already working on documentation, QA and marketing. There is a forum running for thousands of users and mailing list are quite busy too. I don't see how all this activity will run if you translate the content from English as a central language to the other languages, that will be seen has a very very negative approach. Or may be I missed something? I've added Jean-Baptiste Faure in CC of this mail, because I'm still travelling and he will be able to answer the questions you may have during the two next days where I'll be disconnected. But again this is really important that the contents for the Native Language sites are provided in the native language of this group by this group and reflect the needs of this group, not the one of another language, be it English, German or Japanese. I hope you understand my/our concerns because the approach is really different, may be at the opposite, of your proposal. This approach has permitted to build a strong and efficient community in OpenOffice.org and shall be continued the same way here. There is no emergency currently, we can still take time to speak about it if you need to. I'll be back on Wednesday, don't hesitate to ask any further questions or explanations you may need. Kind regards Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] Update on Drupal Website Progress
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 2:31 AM, Sophie Gautier wrote: > You do not mean that the sites in different languages will look the same > with the same content? Language projects need to have their own content and > do not rely on automatic translation because it deliver very poor quality. > For the Drupal sites used on the OOo project, we manage the translation of > the Drupal files on Pootle, so I think we can do the same here. But for the > content, really each project should be able to manage it's own content. > > And thanks all for your work :) > > Kind regards > Sophie Automatic Translation will only occur on things which are considered 'instant communication' such as forums, mailing lists, and such. The main section of the site (ie product information, support pages etc.) will be manually translated either through pootle or directly on the site. If there is a page which does not have a native translation yet it will display in english and allow the user to offer a translation directly on the site if authorised as a translator. To summarise we will be maintaining the integrity and quality of all of the 'important' content while allowing cross-language communication in real time for community discussions. I envisage that this should break down a lot of barriers for people getting involved in the project. What are your thoughts on the subject? Michael Wheatland -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] Update on Drupal Website Progress
Hi Michael, all, I'm sorry, I'm currently travelling and really very partially connected, but there is a point where I would like to give clarification: [...] (-) All languages will have the same content, some of which will be automatically translated so collaboration can occur across languages. (Forums, News, Extensions, Templates) You do not mean that the sites in different languages will look the same with the same content? Language projects need to have their own content and do not rely on automatic translation because it deliver very poor quality. For the Drupal sites used on the OOo project, we manage the translation of the Drupal files on Pootle, so I think we can do the same here. But for the content, really each project should be able to manage it's own content. And thanks all for your work :) Kind regards Sophie -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] Update on Drupal Website Progress
Thanks Floweb 2.0 and Christoph, 1) We will include more social networks than you can poke a stick at 2) The automatic translation can be done by Google Translate, but it is not fully functional at the moment as we are still in the design phase, having automatic translations would slow the site down considerably when things are being shifted around all the time. 3) I am sure that we could integrate the LibO software so that there is a template and extension directory much like firefox does. But as you said that is at least while off yet. 4) As for your Artwork -> Design comment, I have asked for a structure of the marketing/artwork/design/branding/... team so that we can tailor the site to specific needs but I have not yet heard back. As I understand it the design/art team wants to be functionally seperate from the marketing team? Again I am not sure, but once someone provides the structure this will be cleared up quickly. Also I heard that the design/art team would prefer to work as a service/consult group for the rest of the community. 5) At the moment the target groups are essentially the mailing list users. We want to create something that will 'just work' for the jobs that they perform. We have not really got to the marketing or targeting stages yet, we are simply constructing things from the ground up to create a solid foundation to build extra functionality on if required. -- E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] Update on Drupal Website Progress
Hi, Christoph Noack wrote on 2010-11-19 11.51: Areas we plan to tackle next > (-) Translations and internationalisation > (-) Regional groups setup > (-) Extensions directory > (-) 'Features of LibreOffice' pages > (-) Social Media integration In general, I do hear many people talk about Twitter, Facebook, ... although these are the "big players", I miss the "open" alternatives here. Any chance to support them as well? I think Florian (we should call him "Floweb 2.0") might have some experience here. Others as well ... but here I miss the names;-) thanks for the warm words. :-) I guess including Facebook, Twitter and identi.ca would be a good choice. :) flowebbish greetings *g* Florian -- Florian Effenberger Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] Update on Drupal Website Progress
Hi Michael, being still on the train, I can finally comment here. First - a lot of thanks to you! Not only that you and all the contributors work on this, you also provide this neat status information. To me it seems, that you should consider posting such great progress to the Planet as well. Just too important and thrilling :-) Am Samstag, den 13.11.2010, 16:43 +0930 schrieb Michael Wheatland: [...] > (-) Basic information about LibreOffice and each application is easily > accessible and understandable > (-) All languages will have the same content, some of which will be > automatically translated so collaboration can occur across languages. > (Forums, News, Extensions, Templates) Interesting - and because I am personally curious: how is the translation achieved? In the last time, I noticed a large photo forum that also provides translated content. It even takes you a while (although English to German isn't that hard for automatic translation) to know that it has been translated, automatically. It works, if people don't use "domain specific terminology" - otherwise it gets funny. Concerning the Extensions and Templates - I know that we currently talk about the _very_ first step. To think ahead, do you think it is possible to link LibO's internals with the Templates and Extensions page? There have been some reasons why this hadn't been adressed within OOo, but now this would greatly improve the experience using LibO ... Thinking of presenting, recommending, downloading and installing these items from within LibO. > (-) Official Documentation and proposed documentation sections are > functional, just need some prettying up and filling with documents. >http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/support/documentation > (-) Template Library is fully functional - try it out and upload a test > template > http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/download/templates > (-) Forums are fully functional but not yet linked with any mailing list > system > http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/forums/community > (-) Twitter Feed has been setup under Support - Social Media, Need FB > and others. > (-) Community team pages are being setup now. ie website, marketing, > documentation, artwork Artwork --> Design ;-) > (-) Theme concepts are coming along nicely, but we still require some > experts here. Here, it would be great to wait for the LibO 3.3 branding. It looks (according to those people who provided feedback) much nicer than the LibO Beta artwork ... so it would be great to consider it right from the start. Basically, the stuff is ready in the SVG file - "just" needs cleanup, exporting and uploading. I think that it should be possible for me to support these efforts within the next weeks - being more the usability and interaction guy, than the artwork professional ;-) > (-) You can already submit artwork ideas > http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/community/contribute/artwork Being offline ... will have a look at it, later. > Areas we plan to tackle next > (-) Translations and internationalisation > (-) Regional groups setup > (-) Extensions directory > (-) 'Features of LibreOffice' pages > (-) Social Media integration In general, I do hear many people talk about Twitter, Facebook, ... although these are the "big players", I miss the "open" alternatives here. Any chance to support them as well? I think Florian (we should call him "Floweb 2.0") might have some experience here. Others as well ... but here I miss the names ;-) > (-) Consulting with the development group regarding idea tracking and > bug reporting - already started > (-) Setup a blogroll for the LibreOffice Planet. > > If you think you can help with any of this, please contact carlos, > marc or ben, nino or myself directly. > > Also, I think it is about time that we approach the Steering Committee > with the progress we have made and suggest a "Drupal on > LibreOffice.org" launch date in early January. The progress on the > site is astounding and I think that early January is achievable for a > fully functional production quality site. Looking forward :-) By the way, is here any page describing the (assumed) visitors of our site? So that the development of content / the site is directly related to the target groups? (User with OOo experience, User with MSO experience but no FLOSS information, ...). > Note: Development is happening on the English site, > internationalisation will occur after the English site is operational. > If you try to change the language you will likely get a 404 error due > to nothing being translated yet. - First things first. Getting the > structure right, then the content. +1 :-) > Again, > Thanks to everyone who has done such an amazing job so far. Let's keep > up the great work. +1 +1 Cheers, Christoph -- E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ All messages you send to this
[libreoffice-website] Update on Drupal Website Progress
I thought is was about time to share some of the progress that the Drupal website development team is making on the implementation of the development site for libreoffice.org that will be implemented within 6 months. The collaboration through the wiki has grown immensely, with the vast majority of the development being discussed and documented here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Drupal The LibreOffice Drupal development site can be found here: www.libreofficeaustralia.org Key to the long term success of the Drupal site and linked to it, the health and size of the LibreOffice community, is the underlying structure. I thought that I might share some of it here. (-) Basic information about LibreOffice and each application is easily accessible and understandable (-) All languages will have the same content, some of which will be automatically translated so collaboration can occur across languages. (Forums, News, Extensions, Templates) (-) Official Documentation and proposed documentation sections are functional, just need some prettying up and filling with documents. http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/support/documentation (-) Template Library is fully functional - try it out and upload a test template http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/download/templates (-) Forums are fully functional but not yet linked with any mailing list system http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/forums/community (-) Twitter Feed has been setup under Support - Social Media, Need FB and others. (-) Community team pages are being setup now. ie website, marketing, documentation, artwork (-) Theme concepts are coming along nicely, but we still require some experts here. (-) You can already submit artwork ideas http://www.libreofficeaustralia.org/community/contribute/artwork Areas we plan to tackle next (-) Translations and internationalisation (-) Regional groups setup (-) Extensions directory (-) 'Features of LibreOffice' pages (-) Social Media integration (-) Consulting with the development group regarding idea tracking and bug reporting - already started (-) Setup a blogroll for the LibreOffice Planet. If you think you can help with any of this, please contact carlos, marc or ben, nino or myself directly. Also, I think it is about time that we approach the Steering Committee with the progress we have made and suggest a "Drupal on LibreOffice.org" launch date in early January. The progress on the site is astounding and I think that early January is achievable for a fully functional production quality site. Note: Development is happening on the English site, internationalisation will occur after the English site is operational. If you try to change the language you will likely get a 404 error due to nothing being translated yet. - First things first. Getting the structure right, then the content. Again, Thanks to everyone who has done such an amazing job so far. Let's keep up the great work. Michael Wheatland LibreOffice Drupal website development team www.libreofficeaustralia.org -- E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
