Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
On 2021-09-09 20:12, Andreas Mantke wrote: Hi, Am 09.09.21 um 19:31 schrieb Brett Cornwall: (...) There's a place for CMSes like WordPress. LibreOffice decided in favor of Hugo because the product is a static website that will rarely change, requires less maintenance burden than the current CMS solution, and requires modern web development practices without the onerous natures of huge, complex frameworks. The blog remains an approachable secondary CMS to those that require easy editing. This is a relatively insubstantial part of the LibreOffice project and, once the replacement site is finished, will require little upkeep. I wonder if website with content that rarely change, are very attractive to the public. Will they attract more users and people who are interested in the project? Does everything always have to be designed to attract interest of contributors? The front page website isn't a charity. I should hope that the project is interested in considering the website as a tool to further its mission. If someone's interested in helping further that mission by making it better, it's up to LibreOffice to have the community infrastructure in place to get that person welcomed in as easily as possible. Planning the homepage to be some sort of perpetual infrastructure project for the vague notion of attracting contributors to such a specific need (Who? For what purpose?) sounds pretty Kafka-esque to me. This is a site that needs to be finished so that the talent can move on to improve other aspects of the project. This is *reducing the technical barrier to entry* because there is now no need to write PHP, Python, or whichever lower-level language is necessary to build the CMS-based sites. There's no way around the fact that there is some technical expertise required when building a website. *Content* may not require the expertise, but the *content* is so rarely changing on libreoffice.org (The hero slideshow has had the same text/graphics since the inception of LibreOffice AFAICR). And that maybe an issue, if you want to attract new users etc. The website is the showcase of an internet project. And in the analog world the content etc. of a showcase will also not stay the same for a longer time ;-) I'm not sure I understand your argument here. Are you saying that people's experience with contributing to the website is the barometer of the project's contributory experience? That's pretty arbitrary and likely not indicative of the average contributor's interests. You should also have in mind that a website needs some adaption to a (local) cultural environment. The translation of content alone made not a good localized international project website. This is a good point, but not really relevant to the discussion. No matter what tool we use there will be some form of technical barrier to implement different pages in different languages. It's webdev work will require some degree of learning to get involved. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
On 2021-09-09 17:43, Andreas Mantke wrote: Hi, Am 09.09.21 um 01:04 schrieb Brett Cornwall: (...) I was hesitant to reply to this because I'm starting to think that you're just a troll... but I'll bite: It's not LibreOffice's problem that your distro packages software so old that even the brand new release is already out of date. That's *your* problem to deal with. maybe it's always a good starter to know a bit about the people you are talking to: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Document_Foundation=478428168 (see the picture on the right side and you get the 'trol'l for about 16 years). I respect your old contributions but that has no bearing on your current misdirection of arguments and previous shilling of Plone in the past months (which seems to be your favorite pet project - quite a conflict of interest in this discussion). And nice to read that the latest release of the free Linux distribution Debian (from this year) is only old software. The project and its maintainers will like you for this ;-) It's not a secret; It's literally how the distro operates. The point remains that it's your problem to solve because Debian is an environment of your own choosing. And yes, it *is* my opinion that tech-savvy people should contribute to the public face of LibreOffice's web presence. *Industry professional web developers* should be building it because that talent is what makes a good website. And you are thinking of an excluding and not an including and open project. Thus we didn't share the same opinions on open source projects and LibreOffice in particular. Based on this vision and thinking LibreOffice and its ancestor wouldn't have had a website etc. No, I'm saying that when there's actual website development work to be done, it should be done by people that build websites. As Ilmari has already stated a few times now, translations can be handled with weblate for the non-technical side of contributions. Inclusivity is not about letting anybody change production stuff through means of CMS crutches; It is creating a welcoming atmosphere that provides opportunity for interested (and sometimes marginalized) individuals. If a contributor is unable to handle the technicalities of web development, they are more than welcome to pursue any of the myriad different opportunities to contribute. Or LibreOffice can mentor them. The same goes for the codebase: Programmers need to be committing the code. Inclusivity is a people management issue more than a technology issue. It's asinine to believe that hosting a flimsy CMS for flinging digital mud is a *good* idea in webdev. Such opinion about content contributions seemed a bit singular to me and could be seen as disrespect. But I respect your opinion, although I don't share it. There's a place for CMSes like WordPress. LibreOffice decided in favor of Hugo because the product is a static website that will rarely change, requires less maintenance burden than the current CMS solution, and requires modern web development practices without the onerous natures of huge, complex frameworks. The blog remains an approachable secondary CMS to those that require easy editing. This is a relatively insubstantial part of the LibreOffice project and, once the replacement site is finished, will require little upkeep. This is *reducing the technical barrier to entry* because there is now no need to write PHP, Python, or whichever lower-level language is necessary to build the CMS-based sites. There's no way around the fact that there is some technical expertise required when building a website. *Content* may not require the expertise, but the *content* is so rarely changing on libreoffice.org (The hero slideshow has had the same text/graphics since the inception of LibreOffice AFAICR). The tooling only matters when the technology is so bad or onerous that it impedes any sort of forward momentum. It doesn't matter if LO chose Hugo, WordPress, or even your beloved Plone, it's all about providing a welcome environment for contributors with good documentation and a predictable change lifecycle. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
Hi, Am 09.09.21 um 19:31 schrieb Brett Cornwall: > (...) > > There's a place for CMSes like WordPress. LibreOffice decided in favor > of Hugo because the product is a static website that will rarely > change, requires less maintenance burden than the current CMS > solution, and requires modern web development practices without the > onerous natures of huge, complex frameworks. The blog remains an > approachable secondary CMS to those that require easy editing. This is > a relatively insubstantial part of the LibreOffice project and, once > the replacement site is finished, will require little upkeep. I wonder if website with content that rarely change, are very attractive to the public. Will they attract more users and people who are interested in the project? > > This is *reducing the technical barrier to entry* because there is now > no need to write PHP, Python, or whichever lower-level language is > necessary to build the CMS-based sites. There's no way around the fact > that there is some technical expertise required when building a > website. *Content* may not require the expertise, but the *content* is > so rarely changing on libreoffice.org (The hero slideshow has had the > same text/graphics since the inception of LibreOffice AFAICR). And that maybe an issue, if you want to attract new users etc. The website is the showcase of an internet project. And in the analog world the content etc. of a showcase will also not stay the same for a longer time ;-) You should also have in mind that a website needs some adaption to a (local) cultural environment. The translation of content alone made not a good localized international project website. > > The tooling only matters when the technology is so bad or onerous that > it impedes any sort of forward momentum. It doesn't matter if LO chose > Hugo, WordPress, or even your beloved Plone, it's all about providing > a welcome environment for contributors with good documentation and a > predictable change lifecycle. > To be clear: I not fixed on one CMS/DMS. Although I created add-ons for Plone I work and use also other ones and other tools for volunteer projects and for myself. Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
Hi, Am 09.09.21 um 01:04 schrieb Brett Cornwall: > (...) > I was hesitant to reply to this because I'm starting to think that > you're just a troll... but I'll bite: It's not LibreOffice's problem > that your distro packages software so old that even the brand new > release is already out of date. That's *your* problem to deal with. maybe it's always a good starter to know a bit about the people you are talking to: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Document_Foundation=478428168 (see the picture on the right side and you get the 'trol'l for about 16 years). And nice to read that the latest release of the free Linux distribution Debian (from this year) is only old software. The project and its maintainers will like you for this ;-) > > And yes, it *is* my opinion that tech-savvy people should contribute > to the public face of LibreOffice's web presence. *Industry > professional web developers* should be building it because that talent > is what makes a good website. And you are thinking of an excluding and not an including and open project. Thus we didn't share the same opinions on open source projects and LibreOffice in particular. Based on this vision and thinking LibreOffice and its ancestor wouldn't have had a website etc. > > It's asinine to believe that hosting a flimsy CMS for flinging digital > mud is a *good* idea in webdev. Such opinion about content contributions seemed a bit singular to me and could be seen as disrespect. But I respect your opinion, although I don't share it. Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
On 9.9.2021 12.32, Rhoslyn Prys wrote: > If the localized content of the new website is is to be inputed via > Weblate and I don't have to go anyware near the technical side of the > site than no probs. This is the situation with Mozilla, I translate in > pontoon and the content appears on the various website within a short time. > > My concern is the suggestion that locales could create their own > content. However, im my view the level of technical competency within > some locale groups may stop them from being able to do so. This would be > a loss to the whole LibreOffice community. > > I'm sorry, but I'm doubtful if I would be able to contribute under this > arrangement. If you don't intend to provide unique content, then you have no reason to doubt - you will stick with Weblate. The request for the ability to create unique content comes from a handful of localisers. Competency will not be a problem as assistance is available to them. I assume there is consensus that libreoffice.org in any language is not an ever-growing knowledge base, but a lean marketing vehicle. We have plenty of other channels for content, mainly the wiki. Ilmari -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
If the localized content of the new website is is to be inputed via Weblate and I don't have to go anyware near the technical side of the site than no probs. This is the situation with Mozilla, I translate in pontoon and the content appears on the various website within a short time. My concern is the suggestion that locales could create their own content. However, im my view the level of technical competency within some locale groups may stop them from being able to do so. This would be a loss to the whole LibreOffice community. I'm sorry, but I'm doubtful if I would be able to contribute under this arrangement. Rhos Ar 08/09/2021 07:50, ysgrifennodd Ilmari Lauhakangas: On 7.9.2021 12.40, Andreas Mantke wrote: Am 06.09.21 um 18:52 schrieb Brett Cornwall: On 2021-09-06 15:18, Rhoslyn Prys wrote: Hmmm, that looks pretty technical to me... Any chance of doing something nice and easy in WordPress or similar? Just asking :-) I cannot speak for those owning this project. Hugo is most certainly a much simpler solution from a maintenance perspective. Wordpress (and similar CMSes) is a nightmare to maintain and always devolves into a mess of plugins (that everyone is too afraid to change/deactivate for fear of breaking the site), custom PHP snippets galore, horrible WYSIWYG battles, and a general feeling of dread for ever updating/changing Wordpress. So long as reliance on JavaScript is kept to a minimum, this will be a win for libreoffice.org's maintainability and performance (and likely SEO). As for Git, this technical barrier is a downside for those unfamiliar: Those in charge of content may very well not be comfortable with Git. I should hope that the owners of this project solicited feedback from those in charge of the site content. It's important that they are comfortable with such a workflow. If it weren't for merge conflicts and other VCS-isms I would argue that learning simple markdown files + a Git GUI would be miles simpler that learning how to use Wordpress... :) and for those who think content contributors had only to learn markdown and Git to make valuable contributions have no clue about non-tech-savvy people. First: it's not more easy to learn markdown + Git than to use a CMS for a content contributor (most of them are usable like an office text program) Just like with GitHub's direct editing functionality, you don't need to actually understand Git in order to make contributions. To put things into perspective, in my site restructuring plan, there are only about 15 separate pages on libreoffice.org. Besides the very small number of pages, the structure and even the content will remain fairly static, so a CMS would be overkill. Second: if you want to get a look onto your changes / contributions before you submit them you need a local build environment. It works not out of the box with a current Debian 11 fresh setup. This is true because I use a feature introduced in Hugo 0.82 while Debian 11 ships 0.80. However, Go programs like Hugo are distributed as single binaries, so you can just download any recent release and run it: https://gohugo.io/getting-started/installing/#binary-cross-platform In the case of Linux you could grab https://github.com/gohugoio/hugo/releases/download/v0.88.1/hugo_0.88.1_Linux-64bit.tar.gz I did not go into these details, because the focus of this feedback phase is direct editing in Gerrit. Ilmari -- Rhoslyn Prys Meddal.com 07815067805 / 01248 351289 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
On 2021-09-08 20:13, Andreas Mantke wrote: Hi, Am 07.09.21 um 23:37 schrieb Brett Cornwall: (...) $ sudo apt install -y hugo && hugo -F server sorry, but that doesn't work with the git clone of this repo. Debian 11 currently deliver only hugo 0.80. This version is not able to build the static site from the source. You just learned how to set up local development! And again... they hooked up fancy automation such that you *don't* need to even use your local environment if you're feeling saucy. tl;dr I agree that Git is not something for non-tech users to use, but libreoffice.org is IIRC largely maintained by technical people (it's a website after all, not a blog). Therefore, Hugo is a perfectly acceptable solution. Thus in your opinion it is only usable for tech people and you are happy to work in your closed group. I was hesitant to reply to this because I'm starting to think that you're just a troll... but I'll bite: It's not LibreOffice's problem that your distro packages software so old that even the brand new release is already out of date. That's *your* problem to deal with. And yes, it *is* my opinion that tech-savvy people should contribute to the public face of LibreOffice's web presence. *Industry professional web developers* should be building it because that talent is what makes a good website. It's asinine to believe that hosting a flimsy CMS for flinging digital mud is a *good* idea in webdev. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
Hi, Am 07.09.21 um 23:37 schrieb Brett Cornwall: > (...) > $ sudo apt install -y hugo && hugo -F server sorry, but that doesn't work with the git clone of this repo. Debian 11 currently deliver only hugo 0.80. This version is not able to build the static site from the source. > > You just learned how to set up local development! And again... they > hooked up fancy automation such that you *don't* need to even use your > local environment if you're feeling saucy. > > tl;dr I agree that Git is not something for non-tech users to use, but > libreoffice.org is IIRC largely maintained by technical people (it's a > website after all, not a blog). Therefore, Hugo is a perfectly > acceptable solution. > Thus in your opinion it is only usable for tech people and you are happy to work in your closed group. Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
On 7.9.2021 12.40, Andreas Mantke wrote: Am 06.09.21 um 18:52 schrieb Brett Cornwall: On 2021-09-06 15:18, Rhoslyn Prys wrote: Hmmm, that looks pretty technical to me... Any chance of doing something nice and easy in WordPress or similar? Just asking :-) I cannot speak for those owning this project. Hugo is most certainly a much simpler solution from a maintenance perspective. Wordpress (and similar CMSes) is a nightmare to maintain and always devolves into a mess of plugins (that everyone is too afraid to change/deactivate for fear of breaking the site), custom PHP snippets galore, horrible WYSIWYG battles, and a general feeling of dread for ever updating/changing Wordpress. So long as reliance on JavaScript is kept to a minimum, this will be a win for libreoffice.org's maintainability and performance (and likely SEO). As for Git, this technical barrier is a downside for those unfamiliar: Those in charge of content may very well not be comfortable with Git. I should hope that the owners of this project solicited feedback from those in charge of the site content. It's important that they are comfortable with such a workflow. If it weren't for merge conflicts and other VCS-isms I would argue that learning simple markdown files + a Git GUI would be miles simpler that learning how to use Wordpress... :) and for those who think content contributors had only to learn markdown and Git to make valuable contributions have no clue about non-tech-savvy people. First: it's not more easy to learn markdown + Git than to use a CMS for a content contributor (most of them are usable like an office text program) Just like with GitHub's direct editing functionality, you don't need to actually understand Git in order to make contributions. To put things into perspective, in my site restructuring plan, there are only about 15 separate pages on libreoffice.org. Besides the very small number of pages, the structure and even the content will remain fairly static, so a CMS would be overkill. Second: if you want to get a look onto your changes / contributions before you submit them you need a local build environment. It works not out of the box with a current Debian 11 fresh setup. This is true because I use a feature introduced in Hugo 0.82 while Debian 11 ships 0.80. However, Go programs like Hugo are distributed as single binaries, so you can just download any recent release and run it: https://gohugo.io/getting-started/installing/#binary-cross-platform In the case of Linux you could grab https://github.com/gohugoio/hugo/releases/download/v0.88.1/hugo_0.88.1_Linux-64bit.tar.gz I did not go into these details, because the focus of this feedback phase is direct editing in Gerrit. Ilmari -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
On 2021-09-07 11:40, Andreas Mantke wrote: Hi, Am 06.09.21 um 18:52 schrieb Brett Cornwall: On 2021-09-06 15:18, Rhoslyn Prys wrote: Hmmm, that looks pretty technical to me... Any chance of doing something nice and easy in WordPress or similar? Just asking :-) I cannot speak for those owning this project. Hugo is most certainly a much simpler solution from a maintenance perspective. Wordpress (and similar CMSes) is a nightmare to maintain and always devolves into a mess of plugins (that everyone is too afraid to change/deactivate for fear of breaking the site), custom PHP snippets galore, horrible WYSIWYG battles, and a general feeling of dread for ever updating/changing Wordpress. So long as reliance on JavaScript is kept to a minimum, this will be a win for libreoffice.org's maintainability and performance (and likely SEO). As for Git, this technical barrier is a downside for those unfamiliar: Those in charge of content may very well not be comfortable with Git. I should hope that the owners of this project solicited feedback from those in charge of the site content. It's important that they are comfortable with such a workflow. If it weren't for merge conflicts and other VCS-isms I would argue that learning simple markdown files + a Git GUI would be miles simpler that learning how to use Wordpress... :) and for those who think content contributors had only to learn markdown and Git to make valuable contributions have no clue about non-tech-savvy people. Do take the time to actually read what I wrote before throwing your weight around. First: it's not more easy to learn markdown + Git than to use a CMS for a content contributor (most of them are usable like an office text program) Yes, and I will fight to the death saying that WYSIWYG editors are horrendously complicated, nigh-unusable beasts with varying degrees of utter brokenness - LibreOffice included. Markdown can be learned in literally five minutes. Add another five to learn how to use Hugo shortcodes and you've got yourself a bullet-proof way to write without subjecting your poor users to whichever horrible theme editor is inflicted upon them. VCS is another story, and - again, had you actually read what I wrote - I think it's a net negative for non-technical contributors. But are we really currently letting non-technical people change libreoffice.org, a largely-static website separate from blog.tdf.org? Second: if you want to get a look onto your changes / contributions before you submit them you need a local build environment. It works not out of the box with a current Debian 11 fresh setup. $ sudo apt install -y hugo && hugo -F server You just learned how to set up local development! And again... they hooked up fancy automation such that you *don't* need to even use your local environment if you're feeling saucy. tl;dr I agree that Git is not something for non-tech users to use, but libreoffice.org is IIRC largely maintained by technical people (it's a website after all, not a blog). Therefore, Hugo is a perfectly acceptable solution. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
Hi, Am 06.09.21 um 18:52 schrieb Brett Cornwall: > On 2021-09-06 15:18, Rhoslyn Prys wrote: >> Hmmm, that looks pretty technical to me... >> >> Any chance of doing something nice and easy in WordPress or similar? >> >> Just asking :-) > > I cannot speak for those owning this project. > > Hugo is most certainly a much simpler solution from a maintenance > perspective. Wordpress (and similar CMSes) is a nightmare to maintain > and always devolves into a mess of plugins (that everyone is too > afraid to change/deactivate for fear of breaking the site), custom PHP > snippets galore, horrible WYSIWYG battles, and a general feeling of > dread for ever updating/changing Wordpress. So long as reliance on > JavaScript is kept to a minimum, this will be a win for > libreoffice.org's maintainability and performance (and likely SEO). > > As for Git, this technical barrier is a downside for those unfamiliar: > Those in charge of content may very well not be comfortable with Git. > I should hope that the owners of this project solicited feedback from > those in charge of the site content. It's important that they are > comfortable with such a workflow. > > If it weren't for merge conflicts and other VCS-isms I would argue > that learning simple markdown files + a Git GUI would be miles simpler > that learning how to use Wordpress... :) > and for those who think content contributors had only to learn markdown and Git to make valuable contributions have no clue about non-tech-savvy people. First: it's not more easy to learn markdown + Git than to use a CMS for a content contributor (most of them are usable like an office text program) Second: if you want to get a look onto your changes / contributions before you submit them you need a local build environment. It works not out of the box with a current Debian 11 fresh setup. Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
On 2021-09-06 15:18, Rhoslyn Prys wrote: Hmmm, that looks pretty technical to me... Any chance of doing something nice and easy in WordPress or similar? Just asking :-) I cannot speak for those owning this project. Hugo is most certainly a much simpler solution from a maintenance perspective. Wordpress (and similar CMSes) is a nightmare to maintain and always devolves into a mess of plugins (that everyone is too afraid to change/deactivate for fear of breaking the site), custom PHP snippets galore, horrible WYSIWYG battles, and a general feeling of dread for ever updating/changing Wordpress. So long as reliance on JavaScript is kept to a minimum, this will be a win for libreoffice.org's maintainability and performance (and likely SEO). As for Git, this technical barrier is a downside for those unfamiliar: Those in charge of content may very well not be comfortable with Git. I should hope that the owners of this project solicited feedback from those in charge of the site content. It's important that they are comfortable with such a workflow. If it weren't for merge conflicts and other VCS-isms I would argue that learning simple markdown files + a Git GUI would be miles simpler that learning how to use Wordpress... :) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
W dniu 06.09.2021 o 21:57, Ilmari Lauhakangas pisze: On 6.9.2021 19.52, Brett Cornwall wrote: On 2021-09-06 15:18, Rhoslyn Prys wrote: Hmmm, that looks pretty technical to me... Any chance of doing something nice and easy in WordPress or similar? Just asking :-) I cannot speak for those owning this project. Hugo is most certainly a much simpler solution from a maintenance perspective. Wordpress (and similar CMSes) is a nightmare to maintain and always devolves into a mess of plugins (that everyone is too afraid to change/deactivate for fear of breaking the site), custom PHP snippets galore, horrible WYSIWYG battles, and a general feeling of dread for ever updating/changing Wordpress. So long as reliance on JavaScript is kept to a minimum, this will be a win for libreoffice.org's maintainability and performance (and likely SEO). As for Git, this technical barrier is a downside for those unfamiliar: Those in charge of content may very well not be comfortable with Git. I should hope that the owners of this project solicited feedback from those in charge of the site content. It's important that they are comfortable with such a workflow. If it weren't for merge conflicts and other VCS-isms I would argue that learning simple markdown files + a Git GUI would be miles simpler that learning how to use Wordpress... :) Yep, Brett gets where the idea to try a static site generator came from. The editors for the English language site have been mostly TDF marketing staff. After looking into Hugo, I learned that a lot of our friends are already using it: - KDE websites - FOSDEM 2021 virtual booth system - Indonesian LibreOffice sites https://github.com/libreofficeid So we see that one local LibreOffice community already preferred a static site generator. As I mentioned in an earlier message, there are many opportunities to improve the online Gerrit editor from the perspective of web content editing and the improvements would benefit LibreOffice developers as well. Ilmari A quick thought that I just had concerns the redirections. When switching from the previous CMS to a new one I actually hooked the popular old URLs into the new site structure so the thousands existing links on the websites that we don't have control over would not point to a non-existing content. Would that be possible after the upcoming change? Regards Dominik Danelski -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
On 6.9.2021 19.52, Brett Cornwall wrote: On 2021-09-06 15:18, Rhoslyn Prys wrote: Hmmm, that looks pretty technical to me... Any chance of doing something nice and easy in WordPress or similar? Just asking :-) I cannot speak for those owning this project. Hugo is most certainly a much simpler solution from a maintenance perspective. Wordpress (and similar CMSes) is a nightmare to maintain and always devolves into a mess of plugins (that everyone is too afraid to change/deactivate for fear of breaking the site), custom PHP snippets galore, horrible WYSIWYG battles, and a general feeling of dread for ever updating/changing Wordpress. So long as reliance on JavaScript is kept to a minimum, this will be a win for libreoffice.org's maintainability and performance (and likely SEO). As for Git, this technical barrier is a downside for those unfamiliar: Those in charge of content may very well not be comfortable with Git. I should hope that the owners of this project solicited feedback from those in charge of the site content. It's important that they are comfortable with such a workflow. If it weren't for merge conflicts and other VCS-isms I would argue that learning simple markdown files + a Git GUI would be miles simpler that learning how to use Wordpress... :) Yep, Brett gets where the idea to try a static site generator came from. The editors for the English language site have been mostly TDF marketing staff. After looking into Hugo, I learned that a lot of our friends are already using it: - KDE websites - FOSDEM 2021 virtual booth system - Indonesian LibreOffice sites https://github.com/libreofficeid So we see that one local LibreOffice community already preferred a static site generator. As I mentioned in an earlier message, there are many opportunities to improve the online Gerrit editor from the perspective of web content editing and the improvements would benefit LibreOffice developers as well. Ilmari -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!
Hmmm, that looks pretty technical to me... Any chance of doing something nice and easy in WordPress or similar? Just asking :-) Rhoslyn Prys - Welsh translation https://translations.documentfoundation.org/languages/cy/ https://cy.libreoffice.org/ Ar 05/09/2021 13:04, ysgrifennodd Ilmari Lauhakangas: On 3.9.2021 17.47, Ilmari Lauhakangas wrote: Hello, as some of you may know, a small but growing team has been working on a completely new website over the past months, and we're making good progress! Apart from a new and fresh design, that will finally also properly support mobile phones and tablets, we've spent quite some time on the backend system and shared various bits of information with you on this already. We've decided to go with the Hugo static site generator, storing the content in Markdown files and tracking changes in Git. There is no longer a need to request permission for editing the content or the site structure and localisation can happen in Weblate. As the website should be for you, our Community, we're eager to hear your feedback on the editing process of the proposed new website and we've decided to provide another testing facility! Master choreographer Guilhem whipped up an infrastructural dance routine, which makes it possible to preview changes to the website online. Please do give it a try and share your questions and feedback with us: - here on the mailing list - privately to ilmari.lauhakan...@libreoffice.org - on the #tdf-infra chat channel https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/IRC#Channels We'd like to encourage especially the localisers who need unique pages to try things out. Editing the website comes in three easy steps: 1. Edit the website in Gerrit as in the recorded demonstration: https://www.ilmarilauhakangas.fi/gerrit_website_demo.mkv It occurred to me that one can not click links in videos, so here is the direct link for creating a change: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/admin/repos/infra/libreofficeorg,commands Here is the main view of the repository, with the readme: https://git.libreoffice.org/infra/libreofficeorg/ 2. Wait 5 minutes 3. Visit https://newdesign2.libreoffice.org/changes/1234 where 1234 is your Gerrit change number All kinds of nonsensical changes are welcome - just write the commit message in a way that it is clear you are testing. Don't hesitate to reach out for any questions you may have! Ilmari -- Rhoslyn Prys Meddal.com 07815067805 / 01248 351289 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
