Re: [whatwg] Test results for xmlns:foo attribute preservation across all browsers
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:37:15 -0400, Bil Corry b...@corry.biz wrote: Charles McCathieNevile wrote on 8/6/2009 2:24 PM: On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:12:07 -0400, Manu Sporny mspo...@digitalbazaar.com wrote: The test ensures that attributes originating in the markup of an HTML4 document are preserved by the HTML parser and are preserved in the DOM. [...] http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/tests/xmlns-attribute-test.html We have verified that xmlns:-style attributes are preserved in the following browsers: Also works in the latest Opera 10 Beta 2 plus Unite snapshot. Opera 10 - Opera/9.80 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X; U; en) Presto/2.2.15 Version/10.00 (yeah, the UA string is like that because important websites with browser sniffing check version numbers, but only the first digit. I.e. they can't count to ten yet). The issue now is that websites that can't count to ten will not realize it because their site continues to function properly. Well, they won't realise it through seeing their site break in Opera. And for sites that can count to ten, well, you've broken them too. My own sniffer reports version 9.80 for the above UA string whereas if it was still in the normal Opera format, it would correctly report version 10.00. I'm glad you are smarter than the average bear, and I am sorry that we don't have a reward for that. But in practice, we are forced to decide whether it is better to catch the attention of web designers by making their site not work (with the incidental cost of catching the attention of users who discover that the site doesn't work), or by some other means. Our experience suggests that the former is simply not effective - and this is one of the reasons WHAT-WG began - to deal with the Web in practice, and look for ways to improve HTML that didn't require browsers to suddenly stop working for reasons that, *to the user* are mystifying and cause them to blame the browser. So yeah, this is clearly a sub-optimal situation and we want to change it. That alone won't make the change - which is why Opera pays people specifically to go around fixing web sites, code libraries, etc. cheers Chaals -- Charles McCathieNevile Opera Software, Standards Group je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk http://my.opera.com/chaals Try Opera: http://www.opera.com
Re: [whatwg] Test results for xmlns:foo attribute preservation across all browsers
Charles McCathieNevile wrote on 8/6/2009 2:24 PM: On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:12:07 -0400, Manu Sporny mspo...@digitalbazaar.com wrote: The test ensures that attributes originating in the markup of an HTML4 document are preserved by the HTML parser and are preserved in the DOM. [...] http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/tests/xmlns-attribute-test.html We have verified that xmlns:-style attributes are preserved in the following browsers: Also works in the latest Opera 10 Beta 2 plus Unite snapshot. Opera 10 - Opera/9.80 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X; U; en) Presto/2.2.15 Version/10.00 (yeah, the UA string is like that because important websites with browser sniffing check version numbers, but only the first digit. I.e. they can't count to ten yet). The issue now is that websites that can't count to ten will not realize it because their site continues to function properly. And for sites that can count to ten, well, you've broken them too. My own sniffer reports version 9.80 for the above UA string whereas if it was still in the normal Opera format, it would correctly report version 10.00. - Bil
[whatwg] Test results for xmlns:foo attribute preservation across all browsers
With thanks to the CTO of our company, Dave Longley, we have run a set of preliminary tests across a number of browsers to determine if and when xmlns:-style attributes are preserved. The test ensures that attributes originating in the markup of an HTML4 document are preserved by the HTML parser and are preserved in the DOM. The xmlns:-style attributes are then accessed via pure Javascript and DOM-Level-1 mechanisms. Here is the test: http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/tests/xmlns-attribute-test.html We have verified that xmlns:-style attributes are preserved in the following browsers: Firefox 3.0.9, Firefox 3.5.1, Chrome 3.0.196, Internet Explorer 7.0, Internet Explorer 8.0, Safari 4.0, Opera 9, Arora 0.7.0, Konqeror 4.2, Epiphany 2.22, and Android 1.5 (T-Mobile G1) Maciej, I believe that these results were what you were expecting. Ben, Shane, Mark, these results contradict what I asserted this morning during the RDFa telecon. We have not been able to test a vanilla installation of IE 5.0 or IE 6.0 running on Windows XP SP2. The Multiple IE program is not guaranteed to work - the tests worked for us, but we may have accidentally been using the IE 7 browser engine. Could members in the communities addressed in this e-mail please: 1. Review the test source code to ensure the test is accurate. 2. Submit test results for browsers that are not in the list above, or on the test page. Please specify whether the test worked and include your browser version string (which is available on the test page). Ian, is there language in the HTML5 specification (I looked and could not find any) that ensures that this current, widely supported browser behavior is documented in the spec? -- manu -- Manu Sporny (skype: msporny) (twitter: manusporny) President/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc. blog: Bitmunk 3.1 Released - Browser-based P2P Commerce http://blog.digitalbazaar.com/2009/06/29/browser-based-p2p-commerce/
Re: [whatwg] Test results for xmlns:foo attribute preservation across all browsers
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:12:07 -0400, Manu Sporny mspo...@digitalbazaar.com wrote: The test ensures that attributes originating in the markup of an HTML4 document are preserved by the HTML parser and are preserved in the DOM. [...] http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/tests/xmlns-attribute-test.html We have verified that xmlns:-style attributes are preserved in the following browsers: Also works in the latest Opera 10 Beta 2 plus Unite snapshot. Opera 10 - Opera/9.80 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X; U; en) Presto/2.2.15 Version/10.00 (yeah, the UA string is like that because important websites with browser sniffing check version numbers, but only the first digit. I.e. they can't count to ten yet). cheers Chaals -- Charles McCathieNevile Opera Software, Standards Group je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk http://my.opera.com/chaals Try Opera: http://www.opera.com
Re: [whatwg] Test results for xmlns:foo attribute preservation across all browsers
Charles McCathieNevile wrote on 8/6/2009 2:24 PM: Opera 10 - Opera/9.80 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X; U; en) Presto/2.2.15 Version/10.00 (yeah, the UA string is like that because important websites with browser sniffing check version numbers, but only the first digit. I.e. they can't count to ten yet). So going forward, will Opera's real version number now follow Version/ in the UA string? - Bil
