Re: [Wiki-research-l] unsurprising Re: Wikidata for Research - a research proposal
Hi Claudia, On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:54 AM, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote: but most of the reactions came - unsurprisingly good point: and why do you find it unsurprising? because Wikidata is about structured data, which in turn plays a key role in the Semantic Web and in computer sciences more broadly, whereas it is less central to research in most other fields. integration of further fields of research the questions here would be: * into what kind of framework are you expecting to integrate other fields of research? Well, Wikidata, its community and the tools around that. * what cultures of research will by then be determined as standard into which the others would then be *made to* fit? We are not on a quest to label research cultures, but aim at making data and metadata from various origins more interoperable and more easily accessible to broader communities and general-purpose tools. btw, this might be a testing perspective re sitting uncomfortably: where do any results by the measuring sciences look strange due to the framework in which they are presented? Not sure I understand that question. In any case, we are by no means limited to the measuring sciences - there may well be no single measurement in those millions of triples that the European Library provides and that we would try to slice into chunks useful for Wikidata. Legal documents, for instance, have been brought up on the talk page, and while I think they will not fit into this first project (we have limited resources and no suitable partner for that), I can well envision follow-ups focusing entirely on issues like that. Cheers, Daniel wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent:Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:05:05 +0100 Subject:Re: [Wiki-research-l] Wikidata for Research - a research proposal Hi Claudia, thanks for your comments. While we aim at making Wikidata useful for any field of research, even a successfully completed project is unlikely to achieve that in one go, so I've changed that phrase to across fields of research. We have tried to reach out to different disciplines (e.g. https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Daniel_Mietchenoffset=20141209075732limit=31target=Daniel+Mietchen and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Daniel_Mietchenoffset=20141209023643limit=34target=Daniel+Mietchen as well as via the blog and social media) but most of the reactions came - unsurprisingly - from the computer science and Semantic Web corners. I think that is OK, since our aim is to get the process rolling for a tighter integration of Wikidata with research - that's why we also set up the WikiProject and hope that the proposal will just be the first of many of its activities. Once the first such project has been run (be it ours or a fork thereof or a different one), integration of further fields of research should be simpler than it is today. I was reaching out to Europeana, which resulted in the European Library signing up to become a partner here, which should help cover arts and humanities. I have also reached out to mathematicians but did not receive enthusiasm. I specifically asked for databases about mathematical concepts or other kind of Wikidata-compatible datasets, but did not find any. Pointers most welcome, as are further comments and edits. Thanks and cheers, Daniel -- http://www.naturkundemuseum-berlin.de/en/institution/mitarbeiter/mietchen-daniel/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Daniel_Mietchen/Publications http://okfn.org http://wikimedia.org On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 9:30 AM, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote: Hi Daniel, thank you for your pointer, the claim made in the summary in any field of research needs to be substantiated by data that * show the usefulness of the project's expected outcome for research fields in which proofs do not predominantly rely on measurement but predominantly on solidity of argumentation * outline how the bias towards facticity (Mautpreller 2011) in Wikidata disadvantages non-propositional kinds of knowledge even though the purported claim of Wikipedia is to represent the sum of all knowledge see also the list of project partners, e.g., representatives of the fields of Maths as well as of Arts Humanities seem to be missing best, Claudia Koltzenburg koltzenb...@w4w.net My GPG-Key-ID: DDD21523 -- Original Message --- From:Daniel Mietchen daniel.mietc...@googlemail.com To:wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent:Fri, 12 Dec 2014 06:55:20 +0100 Subject:[Wiki-research-l] Wikidata for Research - a research proposal Dear all, we are drafting a research proposal on establishing Wikidata as a virtual research environment, as explained in http://blog.wikimedia.de/2014/12/05/wikidata-for-research-a-grant-proposal-that-anyone-can-edit/ . The proposal is being drafted via
Re: [Wiki-research-l] unsurprising Re: Wikidata for Research - a research proposal
Hoi, I think you miss the point. The point is that Wikidata is a platform that can be and will be used for research. How to do this optimally is what this proposal is about. Not about the nitty gritty of research itself. Thanks, GerardM On 12 December 2014 at 11:54, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote: Hi Daniel and all, but most of the reactions came - unsurprisingly good point: and why do you find it unsurprising? integration of further fields of research the questions here would be: * into what kind of framework are you expecting to integrate other fields of research? * what cultures of research will by then be determined as standard into which the others would then be *made to* fit? btw, this might be a testing perspective re sitting uncomfortably: where do any results by the measuring sciences look strange due to the framework in which they are presented? best, Claudia koltzenb...@w4w.net My GPG-Key-ID: DDD21523 *-- Original Message ---* From:Daniel Mietchen daniel.mietc...@googlemail.com To:Research into Wikimedia content and communities wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent:Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:05:05 +0100 Subject:Re: [Wiki-research-l] Wikidata for Research - a research proposal Hi Claudia, thanks for your comments. While we aim at making Wikidata useful for any field of research, even a successfully completed project is unlikely to achieve that in one go, so I've changed that phrase to across fields of research. We have tried to reach out to different disciplines (e.g. https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Daniel_Mietchenoffset=20141209075732limit=31target=Daniel+Mietchen and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Daniel_Mietchenoffset=20141209023643limit=34target=Daniel+Mietchen as well as via the blog and social media) but most of the reactions came - unsurprisingly - from the computer science and Semantic Web corners. I think that is OK, since our aim is to get the process rolling for a tighter integration of Wikidata with research - that's why we also set up the WikiProject and hope that the proposal will just be the first of many of its activities. Once the first such project has been run (be it ours or a fork thereof or a different one), integration of further fields of research should be simpler than it is today. I was reaching out to Europeana, which resulted in the European Library signing up to become a partner here, which should help cover arts and humanities. I have also reached out to mathematicians but did not receive enthusiasm. I specifically asked for databases about mathematical concepts or other kind of Wikidata-compatible datasets, but did not find any. Pointers most welcome, as are further comments and edits. Thanks and cheers, Daniel -- http://www.naturkundemuseum-berlin.de/en/institution/mitarbeiter/mietchen-daniel/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Daniel_Mietchen/Publications http://okfn.org http://wikimedia.org On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 9:30 AM, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote: Hi Daniel, thank you for your pointer, the claim made in the summary in any field of research needs to be substantiated by data that * show the usefulness of the project's expected outcome for research fields in which proofs do not predominantly rely on measurement but predominantly on solidity of argumentation * outline how the bias towards facticity (Mautpreller 2011) in Wikidata disadvantages non-propositional kinds of knowledge even though the purported claim of Wikipedia is to represent the sum of all knowledge see also the list of project partners, e.g., representatives of the fields of Maths as well as of Arts Humanities seem to be missing best, Claudia Koltzenburg koltzenb...@w4w.net My GPG-Key-ID: DDD21523 -- Original Message --- From:Daniel Mietchen daniel.mietc...@googlemail.com To:wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent:Fri, 12 Dec 2014 06:55:20 +0100 Subject:[Wiki-research-l] Wikidata for Research - a research proposal Dear all, we are drafting a research proposal on establishing Wikidata as a virtual research environment, as explained in http://blog.wikimedia.de/2014/12/05/wikidata-for-research-a-grant-proposal-that-anyone-can-edit/ . The proposal is being drafted via https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Wikidata_for_research and would benefit from critical review, so we would appreciate your comments, suggestions and edits. Thanks and cheers, Daniel -- http://www.naturkundemuseum-berlin.de/en/institution/mitarbeiter/mietchen-daniel/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Daniel_Mietchen/Publications http://okfn.org http://wikimedia.org
Re: [Wiki-research-l] unsurprising Re: Wikidata for Research - a research proposal
Hi Gerard, you may be wrong, let me explain: all I am saying is that in How to do this optimally the optimally depends on the field or type of research people are doing and that hence Wikidata caters preferably for certain fields or types and less so for fields not fitting into this paradigm. That is why downsizing the proposals all-inclusive-claim seems appropriate. https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Wikidata%3AWikiProject_Wikidata_for_researchdiff=180438956oldid=180426891uselang=en so, thanks, Daniel as regards this issue where do any results by the measuring sciences look strange due to the framework in which they are presented? apparently, much more debate would be needed on this list, lets see what others might come up with, best, Claudia koltzenb...@w4w.net My GPG-Key-ID: DDD21523 -- Original Message --- From:Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com To:Research into Wikimedia content and communities wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent:Fri, 12 Dec 2014 13:13:54 +0100 Subject:Re: [Wiki-research-l] unsurprising Re: Wikidata for Research - a research proposal Hoi, I think you miss the point. The point is that Wikidata is a platform that can be and will be used for research. How to do this optimally is what this proposal is about. Not about the nitty gritty of research itself. Thanks, GerardM On 12 December 2014 at 11:54, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote: Hi Daniel and all, but most of the reactions came - unsurprisingly good point: and why do you find it unsurprising? integration of further fields of research the questions here would be: * into what kind of framework are you expecting to integrate other fields of research? *what cultures of research will by then be determined as standard into which the others would then be *made to* fit? btw, this might be a testing perspective re sitting uncomfortably: where do any results by the measuring sciences look strange due to the framework in which they are presented? best, Claudia koltzenb...@w4w.net My GPG-Key-ID: DDD21523 -- Original Message --- From:Daniel Mietchen daniel.mietc...@googlemail.com To:Research into Wikimedia content and communities wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent:Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:05:05 +0100 Subject:Re: [Wiki-research-l] Wikidata for Research - a research proposal Hi Claudia, thanks for your comments. While we aim at making Wikidata useful for any field of research, even a successfully completed project is unlikely to achieve that in one go, so Ive changed that phrase to across fields of research. We have tried to reach out to different disciplines (e.g. https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Daniel_Mietchenoffset=20141209075732limit=31target=Daniel+Mietchen and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Daniel_Mietchenoffset=20141209023643limit=34target=Daniel+Mietchen as well as via the blog and social media) but most of the reactions came - unsurprisingly - from the computer science and Semantic Web corners. I think that is OK, since our aim is to get the process rolling for a tighter integration of Wikidata with research - thats why we also set up the WikiProject and hope that the proposal will just be the first of many of its activities. Once the first such project has been run (be it ours or a fork thereof or a different one), integration of further fields of research should be simpler than it is today. I was reaching out to Europeana, which resulted in the European Library signing up to become a partner here, which should help cover arts and humanities. I have also reached out to mathematicians but did not receive enthusiasm. I specifically asked for databases about mathematical concepts or other kind of Wikidata-compatible datasets, but did not find any. Pointers most welcome, as are further comments and edits. Thanks and cheers, Daniel -- http://www.naturkundemuseum-berlin.de/en/institution/mitarbeiter/mietchen-daniel/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Daniel_Mietchen/Publications http://okfn.org http://wikimedia.org On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 9:30 AM, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote: Hi Daniel, thank you for your pointer, the claim made in the summary in any field of research needs to be substantiated by data that * show the usefulness of the projects expected outcome for research fields in which proofs do not predominantly rely on measurement but predominantly on solidity of argumentation * outline how the bias towards facticity (Mautpreller 2011) in Wikidata disadvantages non-propositional kinds of knowledge even though the purported claim of Wikipedia is to represent the sum of all knowledge see also the list of project partners, e.g., representatives of the fields of Maths as well
