Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
Citation needed?! http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R__hfWbE3DwClpg=PA193dq=East%20Asian%20online%20gaming%20malehl=zh-TWpg=PA193#v=onepageq=East%20Asian%20online%20gaming%20malef=false Since online gamers are a predominantly male group of excessive internet users, they may be the cause of identified gender gaps. Most studies in this area orginate in East Asia Note that the Chinese Wikipedia has a strong presence of Animations, Comics and Games (ACG) group contributors that are young, predominantly male. There is some cultural conflicts when some ACG contributors use East Asian ACG-only vocabulary and cultural references to general audience of editors in the village pump. Thus, the Wikipedia gaming question is beyond just interface, we may also consider the existing demographics (using language version as unit of analysis) and their social and cultural environments. For example, it would be interesting to see how far gaming as a category has developed across language versions and how such development correlates to gender ratio. For example, based on Chinese Wikipedia and Baidu Baike (Chinese Wikipedia's competitor hosted by Baidu the search engine), the contrast is clear. Note that Baide Baike deployed a point-based system with sort of role-playing categories that sound like online games. It corresponds to the labour-intensive but subject to potential manipulation of the metric system. Some Chinese Wikipedians think it is a good practice while some other think it makes the editorial processes stray away from productive editing. I understand that the gaming industry is big and its market growing and thus may open doors for more contribution and readership of Wikipedia. However, it is critical to examine and think through how games can change Wikipedia, and more importantly, how Wikipedia can change games. 2013/7/7 Kerry Raymond kerry.raym...@gmail.com I believe women are well-represented (possibly even the majority) in casual gaming. ** ** -- *From:* wiki-research-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: wiki-research-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Han-Teng Liao *Sent:* Sunday, 7 July 2013 7:43 PM *To:* Research into Wikimedia content and communities *Cc:* e...@lists.wikimedia.org *Subject:* Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia ** ** Will this move (inviting gamers to contribute to Wikipedia in gamified interfaces) further skew the gender demographics of Wikipedia contributors? Is there any alternative that provide customized interfaces that are more inviting to existing gender-balanced or even female-dominant sub-cultural groups? ** ** 2013/7/7 ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com Hi Quim and Sarah, I should have worded my question more precisely. I'm asking what Wikimedia could do to recruit people who play video games on various platforms and in various types of games (casual, FPS, MMPORG, and so on) so that they convert the time they currently use for gaming into time spent contributing to Wikimedia projects of any kind or subject rather than on the important but narrower subject of video games. For example, what would it take to convert people who currently play crossword puzzles or Scrabble on their smartphones into editors of Wiktionary? What would it take to convert people who play geocaching into photo contributors to Commons? What would it take to convert FPS gamers into NPP or anti-vandalism editors? The people on the Research list are generating a lot of good discussion about gamification within Wikimedia to encourage more and higher quality participation, and we're also discussing how to recruit gamers to become new Wikimedia contributors. Please come over to the thread on Research-l and let's continue talking there. (: Pine Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2013 07:31:17 -0700 From: Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org To: e...@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [EE] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia Message-ID: 51d6d8b5.4040...@wikimedia.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 07/04/2013 12:46 PM, ENWP Pine wrote: I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages, and locations. How could Wikimedia editing be made into an appealing activity for people who are currently video gamers? How could Wikimedia market itself to gamers, including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers? Have you asked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games ? (as an outsider) I would say that gaming in general is pretty well covered, at least in comparison with other areas of knowledge. Or what would be the reason to target gamers? Editing per se is not the problem. There is no lack of gamers using wikis (and MediaWiki!) e.g
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
Will this move (inviting gamers to contribute to Wikipedia in gamified interfaces) further skew the gender demographics of Wikipedia contributors? Is there any alternative that provide customized interfaces that are more inviting to existing gender-balanced or even female-dominant sub-cultural groups? 2013/7/7 ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com Hi Quim and Sarah, I should have worded my question more precisely. I'm asking what Wikimedia could do to recruit people who play video games on various platforms and in various types of games (casual, FPS, MMPORG, and so on) so that they convert the time they currently use for gaming into time spent contributing to Wikimedia projects of any kind or subject rather than on the important but narrower subject of video games. For example, what would it take to convert people who currently play crossword puzzles or Scrabble on their smartphones into editors of Wiktionary? What would it take to convert people who play geocaching into photo contributors to Commons? What would it take to convert FPS gamers into NPP or anti-vandalism editors? The people on the Research list are generating a lot of good discussion about gamification within Wikimedia to encourage more and higher quality participation, and we're also discussing how to recruit gamers to become new Wikimedia contributors. Please come over to the thread on Research-l and let's continue talking there. (: Pine Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2013 07:31:17 -0700 From: Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org To: e...@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [EE] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia Message-ID: 51d6d8b5.4040...@wikimedia.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 07/04/2013 12:46 PM, ENWP Pine wrote: I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages, and locations. How could Wikimedia editing be made into an appealing activity for people who are currently video gamers? How could Wikimedia market itself to gamers, including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers? Have you asked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games ? (as an outsider) I would say that gaming in general is pretty well covered, at least in comparison with other areas of knowledge. Or what would be the reason to target gamers? Editing per se is not the problem. There is no lack of gamers using wikis (and MediaWiki!) e.g. http://www.wikia.com/ or http://www.minecraftwiki.net/ . The average gamer probably gets the idea of crowdsourcing knowledge pretty well. Those wikis are community wikis though, as an editor you won't need to deal (much) with relevance, references, POV, essay, etc. I don't know what are the conditions to upload copyrighted content but probably these wikis are more permissive than Wikimedia's. Well, I guess http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Move_to_gaming_wiki exists for a reason. Maybe if we would send gamers (also) to http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Subject:Games we could keep a bit more talent around... -- Quim Gil Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 08:26:14 -0700 From: Sarah Stierch sstie...@wikimedia.org To: WMF Editor Engagement Team e...@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [EE] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia Message-ID: cafk0ehvocyv-n5kmchop-c0r7wy649adxmdhg5u+cvbjgha...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, And yes, if you're interested in engaging (or re engaging) with people already in the community or who don't edit as frequently perhaps, you can contact people who have userboxes on English Wikipedia saying they are into video games: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Userboxes/Games/Video_games I do this for women's history projects and programs. I either use EdwardsBot and spam them with a template inviting them to something or whatever, or invite them individually (more time consuming of course). Sarah On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org wrote: On 07/04/2013 12:46 PM, ENWP Pine wrote: I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages, and locations. How could Wikimedia editing be made into an appealing activity for people who are currently video gamers? How could Wikimedia market itself to gamers, including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers? Have you asked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/** Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_**games http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games? (as an outsider) I would say that
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia (Michael Tsikerdekis)
Hello, I don't know if someone mentioned this already but perhaps the issue can be examined in terms of needs and how these are satisfied (kind of like the requirements used in interaction design). Gamers play games to satisfy certain needs. How many of these would be satisfied if they were to use their time on Wikipedia? Could gamification help? What if all of their online friends were present in Wikipedia as well? Would that increase the likelihood of joining? From my experience, when I had a survey on Wikipedia and offered barnstars, there were certain Wikipedians that loved to get one and valued it. This is pretty similar to awards systems that one finds in games. Perhaps, a global achievement scale for edit counts and other metrics would increase participation and could even satisfy some of the gamers' needs (the recognition part found also in Maslow's hierarchy). But, it all comes down to primary needs. Games provide entertainment, social opportunity and personal identity development (or role playing). Writing articles provides personal satisfaction and social opportunities (but perhaps less direct socializing). Also, the complexity of tasks has increased along with regulations. Rules for e.g., WOW are easily explained and forced upon players by the environment. When it comes to writing, restricting e.g., people to write in neutral point of view is not something that can be achieved by software. One has to learn npov along with writing itself. I think you touch something important here, but achieving it will take some serious research to understand what both groups want and find a common ground. Michael Tsikerdekis ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
I believe women are well-represented (possibly even the majority) in casual gaming. _ From: wiki-research-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wiki-research-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Han-Teng Liao Sent: Sunday, 7 July 2013 7:43 PM To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities Cc: e...@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia Will this move (inviting gamers to contribute to Wikipedia in gamified interfaces) further skew the gender demographics of Wikipedia contributors? Is there any alternative that provide customized interfaces that are more inviting to existing gender-balanced or even female-dominant sub-cultural groups? 2013/7/7 ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com Hi Quim and Sarah, I should have worded my question more precisely. I'm asking what Wikimedia could do to recruit people who play video games on various platforms and in various types of games (casual, FPS, MMPORG, and so on) so that they convert the time they currently use for gaming into time spent contributing to Wikimedia projects of any kind or subject rather than on the important but narrower subject of video games. For example, what would it take to convert people who currently play crossword puzzles or Scrabble on their smartphones into editors of Wiktionary? What would it take to convert people who play geocaching into photo contributors to Commons? What would it take to convert FPS gamers into NPP or anti-vandalism editors? The people on the Research list are generating a lot of good discussion about gamification within Wikimedia to encourage more and higher quality participation, and we're also discussing how to recruit gamers to become new Wikimedia contributors. Please come over to the thread on Research-l and let's continue talking there. (: Pine Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2013 07:31:17 -0700 From: Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org To: e...@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [EE] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia Message-ID: 51d6d8b5.4040...@wikimedia.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 07/04/2013 12:46 PM, ENWP Pine wrote: I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages, and locations. How could Wikimedia editing be made into an appealing activity for people who are currently video gamers? How could Wikimedia market itself to gamers, including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers? Have you asked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games ? (as an outsider) I would say that gaming in general is pretty well covered, at least in comparison with other areas of knowledge. Or what would be the reason to target gamers? Editing per se is not the problem. There is no lack of gamers using wikis (and MediaWiki!) e.g. http://www.wikia.com/ or http://www.minecraftwiki.net/ . The average gamer probably gets the idea of crowdsourcing knowledge pretty well. Those wikis are community wikis though, as an editor you won't need to deal (much) with relevance, references, POV, essay, etc. I don't know what are the conditions to upload copyrighted content but probably these wikis are more permissive than Wikimedia's. Well, I guess http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Move_to_gaming_wiki exists for a reason. Maybe if we would send gamers (also) to http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Subject:Games we could keep a bit more talent around... -- Quim Gil Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 08:26:14 -0700 From: Sarah Stierch sstie...@wikimedia.org To: WMF Editor Engagement Team e...@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [EE] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia Message-ID: cafk0ehvocyv-n5kmchop-c0r7wy649adxmdhg5u+cvbjgha...@mail.gmail.com mailto:cafk0ehvocyv-n5kmchop-c0r7wy649adxmdhg5u%2bcvbjgha...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, And yes, if you're interested in engaging (or re engaging) with people already in the community or who don't edit as frequently perhaps, you can contact people who have userboxes on English Wikipedia saying they are into video games: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Userboxes/Games/Video_games I do this for women's history projects and programs. I either use EdwardsBot and spam them with a template inviting them to something or whatever, or invite them individually (more time consuming of course). Sarah On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org wrote: On 07/04/2013 12:46 PM, ENWP Pine wrote: I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
I think there's a gap between the OP's question about recruiting gamers
(including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers) and the range of
ideas offered about []gamification[] of WP editing.
But I think it could be useful to return to the initial question, and think
more about what the experience of gamers is like, and what this does or
doesn't have to do with Wiki{p,m}edia.
James Gee: People are quite poor at understanding and remembering
information they have received out of context or too long before they can
make use of it. Good games never do this to players, but find ways to put
information inside the worlds the players move through, and make clear the
meaning of such information and how it applies to that world.
To me this suggests further questions:
(1 - about gamers) What causes people to contribute texts in-game or
para-game?
(2 - about game designers) What motivates people to *author* good games
in the first place?
(3 - about wiki) Can people author good games that take place on
Wiki{p,m}edia?
I can imagine a site called WikiGame that people can use to create game
scenarios that take place partly in the real world and partly in
Wikipedia. This has less to with gamification of Wikipedia editing and
more to do with creating fun games that involve writing.
On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 1:54 AM, Steven Walling swall...@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raym...@gmail.comwrote:
Wikicup is highly structured and targeted towards improving quality and
attracts only a small number of participants. It appears to be targeting
existing editors to make better quality contributions. So it’s certainly an
example of gamification, but not one that’s likely to find “mass appeal” or
attract/motivate new editors.
** **
I think if we are looking for “mass appeal” then I think we need to look
at “casual gaming” and what makes them tick. Why do people play little
short-play games? What’s the equivalent for Wikipedia? Could we create a
“game” that throws up a random “citation needed” (perhaps in a particular
category) and asks for a URL that supports the claim? The game would have
to have other “players” checking the citation or else people would upload
any old URL. Maybe it could be structured along the lines of Yahoo Answers,
where the “players” get Best Answer statistics and can be on leaderboards
for different categories of content. There’s a nice match here to Wikipedia
since we already have categories.
**
I think Kerry is on the right track here. WikiCup, the Core Contest etc.
are really cool, but they're at the highest end of the quality/difficulty
spectrum when it comes to motivating users.
A few projects at WMF that have touched on gamification elements:
1. Mobile microcontributions. This is primarily in the planning
stage, but there are variety of small, simple, repeatable things that are
potentially easy to do on mobile. This fits with the mindset of mobile
gaming, where people intermittently play games to pass the time on transit,
waiting in line, etc. More info:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Mobile_engineering/Strategy/2013-2014_planning#Micro-Contributions
2. Our Getting Started workflow for onboarding new users. Try it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:GettingStarted One of the ideas
we'll be testing next is a progress bar, which encourages users to complete
learning five edits to learn each task type. Right now, we see editors use
the Try another article function on the toolbar to skip around and edit
multiple articles within a particular workflow, such as copyediting or
adding wikilinks. There's very little stopping us from adapting this in to
a perpetually available game associated with the many todo items in
Wikipedia:Backlog, after we've figured out how best to apply to the new
editor onboarding experience.
3. The Education Program experimented with leaderboards for students.
Example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Canada_Education_Program/Leaderboardoldid=487269755Based
on feedback from students this was a motivator, but it needs to be
tested in a controlled way for regular editors, as we know that student
activity and retention follows very different patterns compared to editors
not introduced to editing via a classroom assignment. This is one of those
things we should test with a degree of caution, as competition is not
always friendly and positive.
4. Many people have brought up the idea of hooking up Mozilla's Open
Badges architecture to Wikimedia projects. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BADGE and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Badges
There are probably others I'm forgetting.
--
Steven Walling
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
___
Wiki-research-l mailing list
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
Hello,
There is an effort at gamification of learning Wikipedia being created at
The Wikipedia Adventure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Adventure
If this module works for guiding people through the introduction to
Wikipedia then it could be further adapted in all kinds of ways.
User:Ocaasi is managing the content development of this, including
community feedback.
yours,
On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Joe Corneli holtzerman...@gmail.com wrote:
I think there's a gap between the OP's question about recruiting gamers
(including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers) and the range of
ideas offered about []gamification[] of WP editing.
But I think it could be useful to return to the initial question, and
think more about what the experience of gamers is like, and what this
does or doesn't have to do with Wiki{p,m}edia.
James Gee: People are quite poor at understanding and remembering
information they have received out of context or too long before they can
make use of it. Good games never do this to players, but find ways to put
information inside the worlds the players move through, and make clear the
meaning of such information and how it applies to that world.
To me this suggests further questions:
(1 - about gamers) What causes people to contribute texts in-game or
para-game?
(2 - about game designers) What motivates people to *author* good games
in the first place?
(3 - about wiki) Can people author good games that take place on
Wiki{p,m}edia?
I can imagine a site called WikiGame that people can use to create game
scenarios that take place partly in the real world and partly in
Wikipedia. This has less to with gamification of Wikipedia editing and
more to do with creating fun games that involve writing.
On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 1:54 AM, Steven Walling swall...@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raym...@gmail.comwrote:
Wikicup is highly structured and targeted towards improving quality and
attracts only a small number of participants. It appears to be targeting
existing editors to make better quality contributions. So it’s certainly an
example of gamification, but not one that’s likely to find “mass appeal” or
attract/motivate new editors.
** **
I think if we are looking for “mass appeal” then I think we need to look
at “casual gaming” and what makes them tick. Why do people play little
short-play games? What’s the equivalent for Wikipedia? Could we create a
“game” that throws up a random “citation needed” (perhaps in a particular
category) and asks for a URL that supports the claim? The game would have
to have other “players” checking the citation or else people would upload
any old URL. Maybe it could be structured along the lines of Yahoo Answers,
where the “players” get Best Answer statistics and can be on leaderboards
for different categories of content. There’s a nice match here to Wikipedia
since we already have categories.
**
I think Kerry is on the right track here. WikiCup, the Core Contest etc.
are really cool, but they're at the highest end of the quality/difficulty
spectrum when it comes to motivating users.
A few projects at WMF that have touched on gamification elements:
1. Mobile microcontributions. This is primarily in the planning
stage, but there are variety of small, simple, repeatable things that are
potentially easy to do on mobile. This fits with the mindset of mobile
gaming, where people intermittently play games to pass the time on
transit,
waiting in line, etc. More info:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Mobile_engineering/Strategy/2013-2014_planning#Micro-Contributions
2. Our Getting Started workflow for onboarding new users. Try it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:GettingStarted One of the ideas
we'll be testing next is a progress bar, which encourages users to
complete
learning five edits to learn each task type. Right now, we see editors use
the Try another article function on the toolbar to skip around and edit
multiple articles within a particular workflow, such as copyediting or
adding wikilinks. There's very little stopping us from adapting this in to
a perpetually available game associated with the many todo items in
Wikipedia:Backlog, after we've figured out how best to apply to the new
editor onboarding experience.
3. The Education Program experimented with leaderboards for students.
Example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Canada_Education_Program/Leaderboardoldid=487269755Based
on feedback from students this was a motivator, but it needs to be
tested in a controlled way for regular editors, as we know that student
activity and retention follows very different patterns compared to editors
not introduced to editing via a classroom assignment. This is one of those
things we should test with a
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
Hi Quim and Sarah, I should have worded my question more precisely. I'm asking what Wikimedia could do to recruit people who play video games on various platforms and in various types of games (casual, FPS, MMPORG, and so on) so that they convert the time they currently use for gaming into time spent contributing to Wikimedia projects of any kind or subject rather than on the important but narrower subject of video games. For example, what would it take to convert people who currently play crossword puzzles or Scrabble on their smartphones into editors of Wiktionary? What would it take to convert people who play geocaching into photo contributors to Commons? What would it take to convert FPS gamers into NPP or anti-vandalism editors? The people on the Research list are generating a lot of good discussion about gamification within Wikimedia to encourage more and higher quality participation, and we're also discussing how to recruit gamers to become new Wikimedia contributors. Please come over to the thread on Research-l and let's continue talking there. (: Pine Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2013 07:31:17 -0700 From: Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org To: e...@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [EE] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia Message-ID: 51d6d8b5.4040...@wikimedia.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 07/04/2013 12:46 PM, ENWP Pine wrote: I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages, and locations. How could Wikimedia editing be made into an appealing activity for people who are currently video gamers? How could Wikimedia market itself to gamers, including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers? Have you asked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games ? (as an outsider) I would say that gaming in general is pretty well covered, at least in comparison with other areas of knowledge. Or what would be the reason to target gamers? Editing per se is not the problem. There is no lack of gamers using wikis (and MediaWiki!) e.g. http://www.wikia.com/ or http://www.minecraftwiki.net/ . The average gamer probably gets the idea of crowdsourcing knowledge pretty well. Those wikis are community wikis though, as an editor you won't need to deal (much) with relevance, references, POV, essay, etc. I don't know what are the conditions to upload copyrighted content but probably these wikis are more permissive than Wikimedia's. Well, I guess http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Move_to_gaming_wiki exists for a reason. Maybe if we would send gamers (also) to http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Subject:Games we could keep a bit more talent around... -- Quim Gil Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 08:26:14 -0700 From: Sarah Stierch sstie...@wikimedia.org To: WMF Editor Engagement Team e...@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [EE] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia Message-ID: cafk0ehvocyv-n5kmchop-c0r7wy649adxmdhg5u+cvbjgha...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, And yes, if you're interested in engaging (or re engaging) with people already in the community or who don't edit as frequently perhaps, you can contact people who have userboxes on English Wikipedia saying they are into video games: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Userboxes/Games/Video_games I do this for women's history projects and programs. I either use EdwardsBot and spam them with a template inviting them to something or whatever, or invite them individually (more time consuming of course). Sarah On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org wrote: On 07/04/2013 12:46 PM, ENWP Pine wrote: I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages, and locations. How could Wikimedia editing be made into an appealing activity for people who are currently video gamers? How could Wikimedia market itself to gamers, including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers? Have you asked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/** Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_**gameshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games? (as an outsider) I would say that gaming in general is pretty well covered, at least in comparison with other areas of knowledge. Or what would be the reason to target gamers? Editing per se is not the problem. There is no lack of gamers using wikis (and MediaWiki!) e.g. http://www.wikia.com/ or http://www.minecraftwiki.net/ . The average gamer probably gets the idea of crowdsourcing knowledge pretty well. Those wikis are community
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
From a gaming perspective, WikiCup is kind of good. It works well in terms of setting goals and targetting specific topics. It also generally requires reading guidelines to maximize success. On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Stéphane X stef.deneubo...@gmail.comwrote: Personnally, I'm a gamer and I use to edit wikimedia projects. I think it may be interesting if we create a game around some wikimedia projects. Another option may be to let people learn about the open-source-idea and what that could do with the world. I think this idea could stimulate a lot of people to take part in the wikimedia projects. We should take care that we not only stimulate gamers to edit only game related articles. Kind regards, Stéphane 2013/7/4 ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages, and locations. How could Wikimedia editing be made into an appealing activity for people who are currently video gamers? How could Wikimedia market itself to gamers, including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers? Pine ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l -- mobile: 0412183663 twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
Wikicup is highly structured and targeted towards improving quality and attracts only a small number of participants. It appears to be targeting existing editors to make better quality contributions. So its certainly an example of gamification, but not one thats likely to find mass appeal or attract/motivate new editors. I think if we are looking for mass appeal then I think we need to look at casual gaming and what makes them tick. Why do people play little short-play games? Whats the equivalent for Wikipedia? Could we create a game that throws up a random citation needed (perhaps in a particular category) and asks for a URL that supports the claim? The game would have to have other players checking the citation or else people would upload any old URL. Maybe it could be structured along the lines of Yahoo Answers, where the players get Best Answer statistics and can be on leaderboards for different categories of content. Theres a nice match here to Wikipedia since we already have categories. Kerry _ From: wiki-research-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wiki-research-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Laura Hale Sent: Friday, 5 July 2013 4:53 PM To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia From a gaming perspective, WikiCup is kind of good. It works well in terms of setting goals and targetting specific topics. It also generally requires reading guidelines to maximize success. On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Stéphane X stef.deneubo...@gmail.com wrote: Personnally, I'm a gamer and I use to edit wikimedia projects. I think it may be interesting if we create a game around some wikimedia projects. Another option may be to let people learn about the open-source-idea and what that could do with the world. I think this idea could stimulate a lot of people to take part in the wikimedia projects. We should take care that we not only stimulate gamers to edit only game related articles. Kind regards, Stéphane 2013/7/4 ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages, and locations. How could Wikimedia editing be made into an appealing activity for people who are currently video gamers? How could Wikimedia market itself to gamers, including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers? Pine ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l -- mobile: 0412183663 twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raym...@gmail.comwrote: Wikicup is highly structured and targeted towards improving quality and attracts only a small number of participants. It appears to be targeting existing editors to make better quality contributions. So it’s certainly an example of gamification, but not one that’s likely to find “mass appeal” or attract/motivate new editors. ** ** I think if we are looking for “mass appeal” then I think we need to look at “casual gaming” and what makes them tick. Why do people play little short-play games? What’s the equivalent for Wikipedia? Could we create a “game” that throws up a random “citation needed” (perhaps in a particular category) and asks for a URL that supports the claim? The game would have to have other “players” checking the citation or else people would upload any old URL. Maybe it could be structured along the lines of Yahoo Answers, where the “players” get Best Answer statistics and can be on leaderboards for different categories of content. There’s a nice match here to Wikipedia since we already have categories. ** I think Kerry is on the right track here. WikiCup, the Core Contest etc. are really cool, but they're at the highest end of the quality/difficulty spectrum when it comes to motivating users. A few projects at WMF that have touched on gamification elements: 1. Mobile microcontributions. This is primarily in the planning stage, but there are variety of small, simple, repeatable things that are potentially easy to do on mobile. This fits with the mindset of mobile gaming, where people intermittently play games to pass the time on transit, waiting in line, etc. More info: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Mobile_engineering/Strategy/2013-2014_planning#Micro-Contributions 2. Our Getting Started workflow for onboarding new users. Try it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:GettingStarted One of the ideas we'll be testing next is a progress bar, which encourages users to complete learning five edits to learn each task type. Right now, we see editors use the Try another article function on the toolbar to skip around and edit multiple articles within a particular workflow, such as copyediting or adding wikilinks. There's very little stopping us from adapting this in to a perpetually available game associated with the many todo items in Wikipedia:Backlog, after we've figured out how best to apply to the new editor onboarding experience. 3. The Education Program experimented with leaderboards for students. Example: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Canada_Education_Program/Leaderboardoldid=487269755Based on feedback from students this was a motivator, but it needs to be tested in a controlled way for regular editors, as we know that student activity and retention follows very different patterns compared to editors not introduced to editing via a classroom assignment. This is one of those things we should test with a degree of caution, as competition is not always friendly and positive. 4. Many people have brought up the idea of hooking up Mozilla's Open Badges architecture to Wikimedia projects. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BADGE and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Badges There are probably others I'm forgetting. -- Steven Walling https://wikimediafoundation.org/ ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
Personnally, I'm a gamer and I use to edit wikimedia projects. I think it may be interesting if we create a game around some wikimedia projects. Another option may be to let people learn about the open-source-idea and what that could do with the world. I think this idea could stimulate a lot of people to take part in the wikimedia projects. We should take care that we not only stimulate gamers to edit only game related articles. Kind regards, Stéphane 2013/7/4 ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages, and locations. How could Wikimedia editing be made into an appealing activity for people who are currently video gamers? How could Wikimedia market itself to gamers, including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers? Pine ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
I have been thinking that this is something we perhaps should approach university classes in game design about and see what they would come up with (perhaps as a formal assignement for them). However, I have yet to contact teachers to start talking to about this idea and also to list things that the game(s) could focus on. Any thoughts about this approach? Best, John Andersson WMSE From: deyntest...@hotmail.com To: e...@lists.wikimedia.org; wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 12:46:29 -0700 Subject: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages, and locations. How could Wikimedia editing be made into an appealing activity for people who are currently video gamers? How could Wikimedia market itself to gamers, including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers? Pine ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
I'm university lecturer, teaching video game development courses for 5 years. for me, it seems an interesting idea: a good analysis of a videogame is a formative assessment and can help improve Wikipedia. I'd be interested in the project ... 2013/7/4 John Andersson johnandersso...@hotmail.com I have been thinking that this is something we perhaps should approach university classes in game design about and see what they would come up with (perhaps as a formal assignement for them). However, I have yet to contact teachers to start talking to about this idea and also to list things that the game(s) could focus on. Any thoughts about this approach? Best, John Andersson WMSE -- From: deyntest...@hotmail.com To: e...@lists.wikimedia.org; wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 12:46:29 -0700 Subject: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages, and locations. How could Wikimedia editing be made into an appealing activity for people who are currently video gamers? How could Wikimedia market itself to gamers, including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers? Pine ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l -- Prof. Manuel Palomo Duarte, PhD Software Process Improvement and Formal Methods group (SPIFM). Degree Coordinator for Computer Science. Department of Computer Science. Escuela Superior de Ingenieria. C/ Chile, 1 11002 - Cadiz (Spain) University of Cadiz http://neptuno.uca.es/~mpalomo Tlf: (+34) 956 015483 Mobile phone: (+34) 649 280080 Mobile phone from University network: 45483 Fax: (+34) 956 015139 Aviso legal: Este mensaje (incluyendo los ficheros adjuntos) puede contener información confidencial, dirigida a un destinatario y objetivo específico. Si usted no es el destinatario del mismo le pido disculpas, y le pido que elimine este correo, evitando cualquier divulgación, copia o distribución de su contenido, así como desarrollar o ejecutar cualquier acción basada en el mismo. -- Legal Notice: This message (including the attached files) contains confidential information, directed to a specific addressee and objective. In case you are not the addressee of the same, I apologize. And I ask you to delete this mail, and not to resend, copy or distribute its content, as well as develop or execute any action based on the same. ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
I don't think the hard-core gaming community are likely to switch over to Wikipedia editing. I think you are dealing with some extremely different personality types. Indeed, I have always thought it would be interesting to do a study of Myers Briggs (or whatever personality test you prefer) to both gamers, Wikipedia editors and compare that with the community profiles as a whole. I rather suspect that both gamers and editors would cluster in certain parts of the profiles. (Says she, an INTJ wikipedia editor). But I think you might get more joy if you ask the question What aspects of games that make them engaging can we transfer to Wikipedia editing? Then you can draw on gaming literature, e.g. understanding game flow http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1077253 and do an assessment of where Wikipedia editor does and doesn't satisfy the game flow criteria. And then look at criteria that are not met and come up with ideas to introduce that aspect of game flow into Wikipedia editing. As a concrete example, we know that people like the competitive aspect of games (getting a personal best score, beating other human/computer players, leaderboards). Now Wikipedia editors have the concept of edit count, but frankly as a new editor, you are competing with people with a lot of years and probably a lot of bot-edits under their belt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_number_of_edit s so it's hard to see that as a satisfying competition for new entrants. But can you construct some kind of league where new users compete against other new users? Where they can see themselves as having some prospect of winning or doing better? If you look at Kiva micro-lending (an inherently non-gaming activity), one thing they did that was very successful was allowing people to form arbitrary teams and they have a teams leaderboard. At the current top of Kiva teams' leader board are Atheists, Agnostics, Skeptics, Freethinkers, Secular Humanists and the Non-Religious closely followed by Kiva Christians (as I recall the atheist team formed as a reaction to the formation of the Christian team), as they attempt to prove the value of their beliefs by total loan value! :-) I am in Team Australia where we exhorted each other to push ourselves up the leaderboard against other national teams and we are currently the top national team. Meanwhile on the last month leaderboard the winning team is Guys holding fish (who affiliate based on We love fish and/or fishing so much that many of us have chosen to present ourselves on KIVA with a photo of ourselves, holding a fish! ) http://www.kiva.org/community http://www.kiva.org/community Could we do something similar on Wikipedia? That's just one example of taking a gaming concept into Wikipedia editing. I am sure there are many more. Look for research on gamification: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamification Kerry _ From: wiki-research-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wiki-research-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of ENWP Pine Sent: Friday, 5 July 2013 5:46 AM To: e...@lists.wikimedia.org; Wiki Research-l Subject: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages, and locations. How could Wikimedia editing be made into an appealing activity for people who are currently video gamers? How could Wikimedia market itself to gamers, including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers? Pine ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
I think there might be some resistance within the WP community to encouraging detailed game content in WP. There are plenty of other wikis out there with game content (every plant and and zombie in Plants Vs Zombies, screenshots, tips, etc) that would not be seen as notable or encyclopedic. Sent from my iPad On 05/07/2013, at 8:38 AM, Piotr Konieczny pio...@post.pl wrote: On 7/4/2013 9:46 PM, ENWP Pine wrote: I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages, and locations. How could Wikimedia editing be made into an appealing activity for people who are currently video gamers? How could Wikimedia market itself to gamers, including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers? Pine ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l There are already some gamification ideas out there (google/wp for WP:GAME and such. WP:CUP is most popular, and competitions like Wikipedia Loves Monuments and such have some fans as well. They are certainly not as widely promoted as they could be, and the game companies are blind to an opportunity of offering rewards to players who expand Wikipedia content about their games... -- Piotr Konieczny, PhD http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEJ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Recruiting gamers to edit Wikimedia
There is resistance to including material with no published reliable source. They can also edit Wikia which is to a certain extent devoted to gaming. Fred I think there might be some resistance within the WP community to encouraging detailed game content in WP. There are plenty of other wikis out there with game content (every plant and and zombie in Plants Vs Zombies, screenshots, tips, etc) that would not be seen as notable or encyclopedic. Sent from my iPad On 05/07/2013, at 8:38 AM, Piotr Konieczny pio...@post.pl wrote: On 7/4/2013 9:46 PM, ENWP Pine wrote: I've asked these questions in other ways and places and I'd like to hear what other people on the Research and EE lists think. There are many video game players of diverse ages, genders, languages, and locations. How could Wikimedia editing be made into an appealing activity for people who are currently video gamers? How could Wikimedia market itself to gamers, including console, LAN, FPS, MMORPG, and mobile gamers? Pine ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l There are already some gamification ideas out there (google/wp for WP:GAME and such. WP:CUP is most popular, and competitions like Wikipedia Loves Monuments and such have some fans as well. They are certainly not as widely promoted as they could be, and the game companies are blind to an opportunity of offering rewards to players who expand Wikipedia content about their games... -- Piotr Konieczny, PhD http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEJ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
