Re: [Wikidata] Turning Lists to Wikidata
Hi! > when you say "wikidata is not well suited for lists data", you refer > to wikibase or WDQS here? Wikidata is not good for storing list data, or any serial data. WDQS can produce all kinds of amazing lists via queries, but it's not a primary data storage. In general, it could store series data, but since it's based off Wikidata and feeds from it, that creates certain issue when data is not very suitable for Wikidata. > the data:Bea.gov/GDP by state.tab above is certainly a good > representation for efficient delivery (via json) and display of data. > but inefficient for further data sharing without URIs. The question of querying data like "GDB by state.tab" is an interesting one. I'm not sure whether triple store would be a good medium, but maybe it could be... Needs some research on the idea. -- Stas Malyshev smalys...@wikimedia.org ___ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Re: [Wikidata] Turning Lists to Wikidata
Hoi, What bothers me is that when the individual values correspond with Wikidata items or statements, we have to again include all the labels. It is not really effective in this way, Thanks, GerardM On 18 October 2017 at 13:35, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: > The idea with .tab is to treat it like a blob from wikibase perspective, > just like an image. There was some discussion on importing it into wdqs, > but that hasn't progressed much. > > The headers use nonlocalizable ids, Latin chars only, digits, underscores. > But it supports titles--localized names for the ids. > > Tab format is a subset of a well know standard, but I can't find a link to > the discussion with one of the standard writers. I think it was > http://specs.frictionlessdata.io/table-schema/ > > The biggest problem is the missing ui to edit it. > On Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 07:03 Antonin Delpeuch (lists) < > li...@antonin.delpeuch.eu> wrote: > >> I like the idea of storing tables in Commons, but for now I am still >> using Wikidata to store the lists I upload, because: >> >> * tabular data is not integrated with WDQS as far as I know >> * the tabular data format is quite poor compared to things like >> https://www.w3.org/TR/tabular-metadata/ >> * it is not clear to me how this new Wikibase datatype should be used by >> the community. Should we create tabular counterparts of many existing >> properties? Should we have one generic tabular property for use as a >> qualifier of a traditional property? >> >> I find the feature very promising, but for now it is still in its >> infancy. I don't see how I could use it for edits like this one: >> https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q37461404&; >> diff=578074181&oldid=578071885 >> >> Antonin >> >> On 18/10/2017 11:50, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: >> > >> > when you say "wikidata is not well suited for lists data", you >> refer >> > to wikibase or WDQS here? >> > >> > >> > Wikibase, per Daniel K. >> > >> > >> > the data:Bea.gov/GDP by state.tab above is certainly a good >> > representation for efficient delivery (via json) and display of >> data. >> > but inefficient for further data sharing without URIs. >> > >> > >> > What do you mean by further sharing without uri? >> > >> > Btw, there is a wikidata property to link to the .map data pages. Not >> > sure about the .tab, but might also work >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > Wikidata mailing list >> > Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> > >> >> >> ___ >> Wikidata mailing list >> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> > > ___ > Wikidata mailing list > Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > > ___ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Re: [Wikidata] Turning Lists to Wikidata
The idea with .tab is to treat it like a blob from wikibase perspective, just like an image. There was some discussion on importing it into wdqs, but that hasn't progressed much. The headers use nonlocalizable ids, Latin chars only, digits, underscores. But it supports titles--localized names for the ids. Tab format is a subset of a well know standard, but I can't find a link to the discussion with one of the standard writers. I think it was http://specs.frictionlessdata.io/table-schema/ The biggest problem is the missing ui to edit it. On Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 07:03 Antonin Delpeuch (lists) < li...@antonin.delpeuch.eu> wrote: > I like the idea of storing tables in Commons, but for now I am still > using Wikidata to store the lists I upload, because: > > * tabular data is not integrated with WDQS as far as I know > * the tabular data format is quite poor compared to things like > https://www.w3.org/TR/tabular-metadata/ > * it is not clear to me how this new Wikibase datatype should be used by > the community. Should we create tabular counterparts of many existing > properties? Should we have one generic tabular property for use as a > qualifier of a traditional property? > > I find the feature very promising, but for now it is still in its > infancy. I don't see how I could use it for edits like this one: > > https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q37461404&diff=578074181&oldid=578071885 > > Antonin > > On 18/10/2017 11:50, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: > > > > when you say "wikidata is not well suited for lists data", you refer > > to wikibase or WDQS here? > > > > > > Wikibase, per Daniel K. > > > > > > the data:Bea.gov/GDP by state.tab above is certainly a good > > representation for efficient delivery (via json) and display of data. > > but inefficient for further data sharing without URIs. > > > > > > What do you mean by further sharing without uri? > > > > Btw, there is a wikidata property to link to the .map data pages. Not > > sure about the .tab, but might also work > > > > > > ___ > > Wikidata mailing list > > Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > > > > > ___ > Wikidata mailing list > Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > ___ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Re: [Wikidata] Turning Lists to Wikidata
I like the idea of storing tables in Commons, but for now I am still using Wikidata to store the lists I upload, because: * tabular data is not integrated with WDQS as far as I know * the tabular data format is quite poor compared to things like https://www.w3.org/TR/tabular-metadata/ * it is not clear to me how this new Wikibase datatype should be used by the community. Should we create tabular counterparts of many existing properties? Should we have one generic tabular property for use as a qualifier of a traditional property? I find the feature very promising, but for now it is still in its infancy. I don't see how I could use it for edits like this one: https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q37461404&diff=578074181&oldid=578071885 Antonin On 18/10/2017 11:50, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: > > when you say "wikidata is not well suited for lists data", you refer > to wikibase or WDQS here? > > > Wikibase, per Daniel K. > > > the data:Bea.gov/GDP by state.tab above is certainly a good > representation for efficient delivery (via json) and display of data. > but inefficient for further data sharing without URIs. > > > What do you mean by further sharing without uri? > > Btw, there is a wikidata property to link to the .map data pages. Not > sure about the .tab, but might also work > > > ___ > Wikidata mailing list > Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > ___ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Re: [Wikidata] Turning Lists to Wikidata
On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: > >> when you say "wikidata is not well suited for lists data", you refer >> to wikibase or WDQS here? > > > Wikibase, per Daniel K. >> >> >> the data:Bea.gov/GDP by state.tab above is certainly a good >> representation for efficient delivery (via json) and display of data. >> but inefficient for further data sharing without URIs. > > > What do you mean by further sharing without uri? if the cell is identified by a string rather than a URI (as it is the case in the example above) disambiguation is necessary and error prone. e.g. Berlin wd:Q64 wd:Q4579913 wd:Q5932836 > Btw, there is a wikidata property to link to the .map data pages. Not sure > about the .tab, but might also work > > ___ > Wikidata mailing list > Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > -- --- Marco Neumann KONA ___ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Re: [Wikidata] Turning Lists to Wikidata
> when you say "wikidata is not well suited for lists data", you refer > to wikibase or WDQS here? > Wikibase, per Daniel K. > > the data:Bea.gov/GDP by state.tab above is certainly a good > representation for efficient delivery (via json) and display of data. > but inefficient for further data sharing without URIs. > What do you mean by further sharing without uri? Btw, there is a wikidata property to link to the .map data pages. Not sure about the .tab, but might also work ___ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Re: [Wikidata] Turning Lists to Wikidata
when you say "wikidata is not well suited for lists data", you refer to wikibase or WDQS here? the data:Bea.gov/GDP by state.tab above is certainly a good representation for efficient delivery (via json) and display of data. but inefficient for further data sharing without URIs. On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 9:08 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: > There is a better alternative to storing lists - > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Tabular_Data -- it allows you to store a > CSV-like table of data on Commons, with localized columns, and access it > from all other wikis from the and Lua scripts. > > A good example of it -- "per state GDP" page -- see graph in the upper > right corner. > > Page: List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP > Data: GDP_by_state.tab > > Wikidata is not very well suited for lists data, but tabular data was > designed for a relatively large (up to 2mb) lists. > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 12:46 PM, Marco Neumann > wrote: >> >> great I will be on site as well, so we will have a little more time to >> discuss this in detail. >> >> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Antonin Delpeuch (lists) >> wrote: >> > Hi Marco, >> > >> > I agree that many of these lists and tables could be harvested (with >> > some care, of course). >> > >> > However, I don't think that the information they contain should go to >> > the Wikidata item they are associated with. This Wikidata item mostly >> > exists to store inter-language links, but is poorly connected to the >> > rest of the knowledge graph. This tax revenue and GDP information should >> > go to the country items themselves. >> > >> > I am working on the problem of extraction of statements from lists and >> > tables and will write a tutorial when the tools are ready. WikidataCon >> > attendees might have a glimpse of that in this session: >> > >> > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikidataCon_2017/Submissions/OpenRefine_demo >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Antonin >> > >> > On 17/10/2017 12:07, Marco Neumann wrote: >> >> I have noticed a lack of actual data in wikidata representations of >> >> wikipedia list. >> >> >> >> for example >> >> >> >> List of countries by tax revenue to GDP ratio >> >> >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> >> List of countries by tax revenue as percentage of GDP (Q2529105) >> >> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2529105 >> >> >> >> >> >> is there currently a development in the wikidata community to >> >> transform these lists into wikibase items and last but not least >> >> produce RDF respresentations for WDQS? >> >> >> >> best, >> >> Marco >> >> >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > Wikidata mailing list >> > Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> --- >> Marco Neumann >> KONA >> >> ___ >> Wikidata mailing list >> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > > > > ___ > Wikidata mailing list > Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > -- --- Marco Neumann KONA ___ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
