Re: [Wikidata] Semantic annotation of red links on Wikipedia

2018-09-29 Thread Maarten Dammers 
New property proposed at 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Wikipedia_suggested_article_name



On 28-09-18 11:27, Lucie-Aimée Kaffee wrote:
The idea of linking red links is very interesting, I believe, 
especially as we have Wikidata items to many of the missing articles.
We discussed the concept of "smart red links" (linking to the 
ArticlePlaceholder pages, as someone pointed out before) a while ago, 
documented at 
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ArticlePlaceholder/Smart_red_links


I believe it's a very interesting direction to explore, especially for 
Wikipedias with a smaller amount of articles and therefore naturally a 
higher amount of red links.


On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 at 21:06, Maarten Dammers > wrote:


Hello,

On 27-09-18 01:16, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> On 24 September 2018 at 18:48, Maarten Dammers
mailto:maar...@mdammers.nl>> wrote:
>
>> Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the
red link on
>> Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?
> This facility already exists:
>
>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Interlanguage_link#Link_to_Reasonator_and_Wikidata
You seem to have done some selective quoting and selective reading. I
addressed this in my original email:

On 24-09-18 19:48, Maarten Dammers wrote:
> Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some
Wikipedia's
> people have tested with local templates around the red links.
That's
> not structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and
> the local communities generally don't seem to like the approach.
> That's not the way to go.
James also shared some links related to this.

Maarten




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University of Southampton


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Re: [Wikidata] Semantic annotation of red links on Wikipedia

2018-09-28 Thread Lucie-Aimée Kaffee 
The idea of linking red links is very interesting, I believe, especially as
we have Wikidata items to many of the missing articles.
We discussed the concept of "smart red links" (linking to the
ArticlePlaceholder pages, as someone pointed out before) a while ago,
documented at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ArticlePlaceholder/Smart_red_links

I believe it's a very interesting direction to explore, especially for
Wikipedias with a smaller amount of articles and therefore naturally a
higher amount of red links.

On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 at 21:06, Maarten Dammers  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On 27-09-18 01:16, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> > On 24 September 2018 at 18:48, Maarten Dammers 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red
> link on
> >> Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?
> > This facility already exists:
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Interlanguage_link#Link_to_Reasonator_and_Wikidata
> You seem to have done some selective quoting and selective reading. I
> addressed this in my original email:
>
> On 24-09-18 19:48, Maarten Dammers wrote:
> > Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some Wikipedia's
> > people have tested with local templates around the red links. That's
> > not structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and
> > the local communities generally don't seem to like the approach.
> > That's not the way to go.
> James also shared some links related to this.
>
> Maarten
>
>
>
>
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School of Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton
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Re: [Wikidata] Semantic annotation of red links on Wikipedia

2018-09-27 Thread Maarten Dammers 

Hello,

On 27-09-18 01:16, Andy Mabbett wrote:

On 24 September 2018 at 18:48, Maarten Dammers  wrote:


Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red link on
Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?

This facility already exists:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Interlanguage_link#Link_to_Reasonator_and_Wikidata
You seem to have done some selective quoting and selective reading. I 
addressed this in my original email:


On 24-09-18 19:48, Maarten Dammers wrote:
Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some Wikipedia's 
people have tested with local templates around the red links. That's 
not structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and 
the local communities generally don't seem to like the approach. 
That's not the way to go. 

James also shared some links related to this.

Maarten




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Re: [Wikidata] Semantic annotation of red links on Wikipedia

2018-09-26 Thread Andy Mabbett 
On 24 September 2018 at 18:48, Maarten Dammers  wrote:

> Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red link on
> Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?

This facility already exists:

   
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Interlanguage_link#Link_to_Reasonator_and_Wikidata

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikidata] Semantic annotation of red links on Wikipedia

2018-09-25 Thread 80hnhtv4agou 

All that red makes the page look bad, and i would like to point out the abuse 
factor here, all those red links start edit wars,
 
and should be put there if any by people,

The creation of the wikidata page also creats a problem, because it does not 
establis a lable which should be mandatory
 
and in english, 
in the save proses.  

and this problem *  
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Labels_and_descriptions#List_of_items_without_labels_and/or_descriptions
  


>Tuesday, September 25, 2018 2:58 AM -05:00 from Sergey Leschina 
>:
>
>I want to draw your attention to the problem from the other side. On the newly 
>created page, which can be opened by the red link, there is no binding to the 
>Wikidata. This means that after the creation, the page will not automatically 
>be linked to the Wikidata. And if the project has templates that can use 
>information from the Wikidata, they will not fully work until the page will be 
>saved at least once and linked to an item. I already suggested to add the 
>parameter for this:  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T178249
>
>If something like this will be implemented, then it will be possible to make a 
>template for the red links (with Lua and TemplateStyles) that will be 
>connected to the Wikidata. Although I agree that it is better to have a syntax 
>that will allow to make links without such difficulties.
>пн, 24 сент. 2018 г. в 20:50, Maarten Dammers < maar...@mdammers.nl >:
>>Hi everyone,
>>
>>According to  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLuM4E6IE5U : "Semantic 
>>annotation is the process of attaching additional information to various 
>>concepts (e.g. people, things, places, organizations etc) in a given 
>>text or any other content. Unlike classic text annotations for reader's 
>>reference, semantic annotations are used by machines to refer to."
>>(more at 
>>https://ontotext.com/knowledgehub/fundamentals/semantic-annotation/ )
>>
>>On Wikipedia a red link is a link to an article that hasn't been created 
>>(yet) in that language. Often another language does have an article 
>>about the subject or at least we have a Wikidata item about the subject. 
>>Take for example 
>>https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris . It has over 
>>250 incoming links, but the person doesn't have an article in Dutch. We 
>>have a Wikidata item with links to 7 Wikipedia's at 
>>https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 , but no way to relate 
>>https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris with 
>>https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 .
>>
>>Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red link 
>>on Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?
>>
>>Let's assume we have this list somewhere. We would be able to offer all 
>>sorts of nice features to our users like:
>>* Hover of the link to get a hovercard in your favorite backup language
>>* Generate an article placeholder for the user with basic information in 
>>the local language
>>* Pre-populate the translate extension so you can translate the article 
>>from another language
>>(probably plenty of other good uses)
>>
>>Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some Wikipedia's 
>>people have tested with local templates around the red links. That's not 
>>structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and the 
>>local communities generally don't seem to like the approach. That's not 
>>the way to go. Maybe a better option would be to create a new property 
>>on Wikidata to store the name of the future article. Something like 
>>Q116510: Pxxx -> (nl)"Friedrich Ris". Would be easiest because the 
>>infrastructure is there and you can just build tools on top of it, but 
>>I'm afraid this will cause a lot of noise on items. A couple of 
>>suggestions wouldn't be a problem, but what is keeping people from 
>>adding the suggestion in 100 languages? Or maybe restrict the usage that 
>>a Wikipedia must have at least 1 (or n) incoming links before people are 
>>allowed to add it?
>>We could create a new projects on the Wikimedia Cloud to store the 
>>links, but that would be quite the extra time investment setting up 
>>everything.
>>
>>What do you think?
>>
>>Maarten
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>___
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>>https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>
>
>-- 
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Re: [Wikidata] Semantic annotation of red links on Wikipedia

2018-09-25 Thread Sergey Leschina 
I want to draw your attention to the problem from the other side. On the
newly created page, which can be opened by the red link, there is no
binding to the Wikidata. This means that after the creation, the page will
not automatically be linked to the Wikidata. And if the project has
templates that can use information from the Wikidata, they will not fully
work until the page will be saved at least once and linked to an item. I
already suggested to add the parameter for this:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T178249

If something like this will be implemented, then it will be possible to
make a template for the red links (with Lua and TemplateStyles) that will
be connected to the Wikidata. Although I agree that it is better to have a
syntax that will allow to make links without such difficulties.

пн, 24 сент. 2018 г. в 20:50, Maarten Dammers :

> Hi everyone,
>
> According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLuM4E6IE5U : "Semantic
> annotation is the process of attaching additional information to various
> concepts (e.g. people, things, places, organizations etc) in a given
> text or any other content. Unlike classic text annotations for reader's
> reference, semantic annotations are used by machines to refer to."
> (more at
> https://ontotext.com/knowledgehub/fundamentals/semantic-annotation/ )
>
> On Wikipedia a red link is a link to an article that hasn't been created
> (yet) in that language. Often another language does have an article
> about the subject or at least we have a Wikidata item about the subject.
> Take for example
> https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris . It has over
> 250 incoming links, but the person doesn't have an article in Dutch. We
> have a Wikidata item with links to 7 Wikipedia's at
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 , but no way to relate
> https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris with
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 .
>
> Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red link
> on Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?
>
> Let's assume we have this list somewhere. We would be able to offer all
> sorts of nice features to our users like:
> * Hover of the link to get a hovercard in your favorite backup language
> * Generate an article placeholder for the user with basic information in
> the local language
> * Pre-populate the translate extension so you can translate the article
> from another language
> (probably plenty of other good uses)
>
> Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some Wikipedia's
> people have tested with local templates around the red links. That's not
> structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and the
> local communities generally don't seem to like the approach. That's not
> the way to go. Maybe a better option would be to create a new property
> on Wikidata to store the name of the future article. Something like
> Q116510: Pxxx -> (nl)"Friedrich Ris". Would be easiest because the
> infrastructure is there and you can just build tools on top of it, but
> I'm afraid this will cause a lot of noise on items. A couple of
> suggestions wouldn't be a problem, but what is keeping people from
> adding the suggestion in 100 languages? Or maybe restrict the usage that
> a Wikipedia must have at least 1 (or n) incoming links before people are
> allowed to add it?
> We could create a new projects on the Wikimedia Cloud to store the
> links, but that would be quite the extra time investment setting up
> everything.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Maarten
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Wikidata mailing list
> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>


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Re: [Wikidata] Semantic annotation of red links on Wikipedia

2018-09-24 Thread Maarten Dammers 

Hi James,


On 24-09-18 20:08, James Heald wrote:
The problem, if you don't put something on the wikipage itself, is how 
then do you determine which [[John A. Smith]] a redlink was intended 
to refer to, if there is more than one possibility.
That's a classic disambiguation problem. Most Wikipedia's seem to be 
pretty good at dealing with these. At least for the Dutch Wikipedia I 
know people working on disambiguation are quite active and I encounter 
quite a few disambiguated red links. If this would really become an 
issue, a qualifier could be used to track based on what article (it's 
linked item) the link was made. So in the case of Friedrich Ris, that 
would be https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1624113 
(https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aethriamanta_aethra).


Maarten



But Maarten is right, that at least on en-wiki, the suggestion of 
adding templates to link to Wikidata content has met with considerable 
hostility, expressed in two recent RfCs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Archive_202#RfC:_Linking_to_wikidata 



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Archive_204#New_RFC_on_linking_to_Wikidata 



  -- James.



On 24/09/2018 18:48, Maarten Dammers wrote:

Hi everyone,

According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLuM4E6IE5U : "Semantic 
annotation is the process of attaching additional information to 
various concepts (e.g. people, things, places, organizations etc) in 
a given text or any other content. Unlike classic text annotations 
for reader's reference, semantic annotations are used by machines to 
refer to."
(more at 
https://ontotext.com/knowledgehub/fundamentals/semantic-annotation/ )


On Wikipedia a red link is a link to an article that hasn't been 
created (yet) in that language. Often another language does have an 
article about the subject or at least we have a Wikidata item about 
the subject. Take for example 
https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris . It has 
over 250 incoming links, but the person doesn't have an article in 
Dutch. We have a Wikidata item with links to 7 Wikipedia's at 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 , but no way to relate 
https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris with 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 .


Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red 
link on Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?


Let's assume we have this list somewhere. We would be able to offer 
all sorts of nice features to our users like:

* Hover of the link to get a hovercard in your favorite backup language
* Generate an article placeholder for the user with basic information 
in the local language
* Pre-populate the translate extension so you can translate the 
article from another language

(probably plenty of other good uses)

Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some 
Wikipedia's people have tested with local templates around the red 
links. That's not structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it 
doesn't scale and the local communities generally don't seem to like 
the approach. That's not the way to go. Maybe a better option would 
be to create a new property on Wikidata to store the name of the 
future article. Something like Q116510: Pxxx -> (nl)"Friedrich Ris". 
Would be easiest because the infrastructure is there and you can just 
build tools on top of it, but I'm afraid this will cause a lot of 
noise on items. A couple of suggestions wouldn't be a problem, but 
what is keeping people from adding the suggestion in 100 languages? 
Or maybe restrict the usage that a Wikipedia must have at least 1 (or 
n) incoming links before people are allowed to add it?
We could create a new projects on the Wikimedia Cloud to store the 
links, but that would be quite the extra time investment setting up 
everything.


What do you think?

Maarten




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Re: [Wikidata] Semantic annotation of red links on Wikipedia

2018-09-24 Thread James Heald 
The problem, if you don't put something on the wikipage itself, is how 
then do you determine which [[John A. Smith]] a redlink was intended to 
refer to, if there is more than one possibility.


But Maarten is right, that at least on en-wiki, the suggestion of adding 
templates to link to Wikidata content has met with considerable 
hostility, expressed in two recent RfCs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Archive_202#RfC:_Linking_to_wikidata

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Archive_204#New_RFC_on_linking_to_Wikidata

  -- James.



On 24/09/2018 18:48, Maarten Dammers wrote:

Hi everyone,

According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLuM4E6IE5U : "Semantic 
annotation is the process of attaching additional information to various 
concepts (e.g. people, things, places, organizations etc) in a given 
text or any other content. Unlike classic text annotations for reader's 
reference, semantic annotations are used by machines to refer to."
(more at 
https://ontotext.com/knowledgehub/fundamentals/semantic-annotation/ )


On Wikipedia a red link is a link to an article that hasn't been created 
(yet) in that language. Often another language does have an article 
about the subject or at least we have a Wikidata item about the subject. 
Take for example 
https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris . It has over 
250 incoming links, but the person doesn't have an article in Dutch. We 
have a Wikidata item with links to 7 Wikipedia's at 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 , but no way to relate 
https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris with 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 .


Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red link 
on Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?


Let's assume we have this list somewhere. We would be able to offer all 
sorts of nice features to our users like:

* Hover of the link to get a hovercard in your favorite backup language
* Generate an article placeholder for the user with basic information in 
the local language
* Pre-populate the translate extension so you can translate the article 
from another language

(probably plenty of other good uses)

Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some Wikipedia's 
people have tested with local templates around the red links. That's not 
structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and the 
local communities generally don't seem to like the approach. That's not 
the way to go. Maybe a better option would be to create a new property 
on Wikidata to store the name of the future article. Something like 
Q116510: Pxxx -> (nl)"Friedrich Ris". Would be easiest because the 
infrastructure is there and you can just build tools on top of it, but 
I'm afraid this will cause a lot of noise on items. A couple of 
suggestions wouldn't be a problem, but what is keeping people from 
adding the suggestion in 100 languages? Or maybe restrict the usage that 
a Wikipedia must have at least 1 (or n) incoming links before people are 
allowed to add it?
We could create a new projects on the Wikimedia Cloud to store the 
links, but that would be quite the extra time investment setting up 
everything.


What do you think?

Maarten




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[Wikidata] Semantic annotation of red links on Wikipedia

2018-09-24 Thread Maarten Dammers 

Hi everyone,

According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLuM4E6IE5U : "Semantic 
annotation is the process of attaching additional information to various 
concepts (e.g. people, things, places, organizations etc) in a given 
text or any other content. Unlike classic text annotations for reader's 
reference, semantic annotations are used by machines to refer to."
(more at 
https://ontotext.com/knowledgehub/fundamentals/semantic-annotation/ )


On Wikipedia a red link is a link to an article that hasn't been created 
(yet) in that language. Often another language does have an article 
about the subject or at least we have a Wikidata item about the subject. 
Take for example 
https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris . It has over 
250 incoming links, but the person doesn't have an article in Dutch. We 
have a Wikidata item with links to 7 Wikipedia's at 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 , but no way to relate 
https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friedrich_Ris with 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q116510 .


Wouldn't it be nice to be able to make a connection between the red link 
on Wikipedia and the Wikidata item?


Let's assume we have this list somewhere. We would be able to offer all 
sorts of nice features to our users like:

* Hover of the link to get a hovercard in your favorite backup language
* Generate an article placeholder for the user with basic information in 
the local language
* Pre-populate the translate extension so you can translate the article 
from another language

(probably plenty of other good uses)

Where to store this link? I'm not sure about that. On some Wikipedia's 
people have tested with local templates around the red links. That's not 
structured data, clutters up the Wikitext, it doesn't scale and the 
local communities generally don't seem to like the approach. That's not 
the way to go. Maybe a better option would be to create a new property 
on Wikidata to store the name of the future article. Something like 
Q116510: Pxxx -> (nl)"Friedrich Ris". Would be easiest because the 
infrastructure is there and you can just build tools on top of it, but 
I'm afraid this will cause a lot of noise on items. A couple of 
suggestions wouldn't be a problem, but what is keeping people from 
adding the suggestion in 100 languages? Or maybe restrict the usage that 
a Wikipedia must have at least 1 (or n) incoming links before people are 
allowed to add it?
We could create a new projects on the Wikimedia Cloud to store the 
links, but that would be quite the extra time investment setting up 
everything.


What do you think?

Maarten




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