Re: [Wikidata] Is there an "indigenous to" for Plants ?

[Thad Guidry]

The data I am actually working with is here:
http://www.xerces.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/conserving_bb.pdf#page=29
and within
https://www.wildflower.org/collections/collection.php?collection=xerces_bumble
that use USDA Native status.

After searching the Property proposal archives (guided by Laura's
suggestions) for "indigenous" and others, I found discussion between John
Vandenberg and Felix Reimann that was sort of helpful...where they discuss
"indigenous"...

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/24#WWF_ecoregion
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/23#WWF_ecoregion_code
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/24#biome

But even John and Felix are left openly pondering the best way to capture
"native" status of Plants in Wikidata.

Which also leaves my question open about the best way / property to store
the concepts of Native Plants
(we have the opposite already being invasive to P5588


USDA defines "native" as this and with codes:
https://plants.usda.gov/faq.html#native
https://plants.usda.gov/native_status_def.html

Where you often see the codes and data used on sites such as
https://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=AGSC

How do folks openly discuss such "left open" questions with experts ?  Do I
just ask John and Felix on their Talk pages ?  I'd prefer a roundtable
discussion.  How is that done on Wikidata ?

-Thad
+ThadGuidry 
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] Is there an "indigenous to" for Plants ?

[Nicolas VIGNERON]

Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 18:25, Laura Soito  a écrit :

> Not sure if either of these would be applicable for your data, but similar
> to 'Indigenous to ' for
> there is a property 'Endemic to
> ' that can be applied to
> taxon. Or more generally, there is habitat
>  which seems like it can be
> used to specify geographic locations as well other places where an organism
> might live (e.g. soil, within other organisms, etc).
>
> Laura
>

Thanks Laura, I was looking for P183 ('endemic to') but couldn't find it.
If there is a relevant item, it is the best property for this need (if I
understand correctly).
I did find P2974 ('habitat') but the expected value is not an area but a
type of area.

An example to be more clear: P183 would the "Sahara" and P2974 would be
"desert".
For some organisms, it can seems a bit redundant (the "Sahara" is already
indicated as a "desert") but for organism without a specific area, it's
important (for instance for a human virus, the habitat is "human" and there
is no area per se).

Cheers, ~nicolas
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] Is there an "indigenous to" for Plants ?

[Laura Soito]

 Not sure if either of these would be applicable for your data, but similar
to 'Indigenous to ' for there
is a property 'Endemic to '
that can be applied to taxon. Or more generally, there is habitat
 which seems like it can be
used to specify geographic locations as well other places where an organism
might live (e.g. soil, within other organisms, etc).

Laura




On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 9:31 AM Thad Guidry  wrote:

> Ah thanks Nicolas !
>
> And then I see it can be queried with
> https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query=  ??
> is that correct ?
>
> -Thad
> +ThadGuidry 
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 10:24 AM Nicolas VIGNERON <
> vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 17:14, Jan Ainali  a écrit :
>>
>>> Species don't care much for administrative borders so until we have the
>>> ability to store actual geographical data there is not much to do. Sure,
>>> for some islands or lakes it might make sense to tie it to another item but
>>> those are special cases for a problem that should be more generally solved.
>>>
>>> /Jan
>>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> As a reminder, there is the possibility to « store actual geographical »
>> with P3896  (maybe not the
>> good property here but the datatype "geoshape" does exist and is used).
>>
>> Cheers, ~nicolas
>> ___
>> Wikidata mailing list
>> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>>
> ___
> Wikidata mailing list
> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] Is there an "indigenous to" for Plants ?

[Nicolas VIGNERON]

Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 17:31, Thad Guidry  a écrit :

> Ah thanks Nicolas !
>

No problem, this possibility is not well known so I took the chance to talk
about it.


> And then I see it can be queried with
> https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query=  ??
> is that correct ?
>

Yes :
https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query=SELECT%20*%20WHERE%20{%0A%20%20%3Fid%20wdt%3AP131%20wd%3AQ12130%20%3B%20wdt%3AP3896%20%3Fgeo%20.%0A}
You can also query it in the usual SPARQL query service :
https://query.wikidata.org/#%23defaultView%3AMap%0ASELECT%20%2a%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fdpt%20wdt%3AP131%20wd%3AQ12130%20%3B%20wdt%3AP3896%20%3Fgeo%20.%0A%7D
(I remember a better query about elections in Germany or something, but I
can't find it again).

Cheers, ~nicolas
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] Is there an "indigenous to" for Plants ?

[Thad Guidry]

Ah thanks Nicolas !

And then I see it can be queried with
https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query=  ??
is that correct ?

-Thad
+ThadGuidry 


On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 10:24 AM Nicolas VIGNERON <
vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 17:14, Jan Ainali  a écrit :
>
>> Species don't care much for administrative borders so until we have the
>> ability to store actual geographical data there is not much to do. Sure,
>> for some islands or lakes it might make sense to tie it to another item but
>> those are special cases for a problem that should be more generally solved.
>>
>> /Jan
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> As a reminder, there is the possibility to « store actual geographical »
> with P3896  (maybe not the
> good property here but the datatype "geoshape" does exist and is used).
>
> Cheers, ~nicolas
> ___
> Wikidata mailing list
> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] Is there an "indigenous to" for Plants ?

[Nicolas VIGNERON]

Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 17:14, Jan Ainali  a écrit :

> Species don't care much for administrative borders so until we have the
> ability to store actual geographical data there is not much to do. Sure,
> for some islands or lakes it might make sense to tie it to another item but
> those are special cases for a problem that should be more generally solved.
>
> /Jan
>

Hi,

As a reminder, there is the possibility to « store actual geographical »
with P3896  (maybe not the
good property here but the datatype "geoshape" does exist and is used).

Cheers, ~nicolas
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] Is there an "indigenous to" for Plants ?

[Jan Ainali]

Species don't care much for administrative borders so until we have the
ability to store actual geographical data there is not much to do. Sure,
for some islands or lakes it might make sense to tie it to another item but
those are special cases for a problem that should be more generally solved.

/Jan


Den sön 23 sep. 2018 kl 17:07 skrev Thad Guidry :

> Hi Andy !
>
> Thanks !  But, yeah both of those are not useful... because they are image
> based and not DATA based.
>
> I need a property that holds location data, so that anyone can build those
> images and maps.  This is WikiDATA.
>
> Hmm, location data... so location with a qualifier for "native" or some
> such ?  (any precedent here ?)
> But that would be flipping it around and possibly would make querying for
> data more difficult by map/image builders.
>
> -Thad
> +ThadGuidry 
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 1:02 AM Andy Mabbett 
> wrote:
>
>> On 22 September 2018 at 16:52, Thad Guidry  wrote:
>>
>> > Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage
>> ?
>>
>> The nearest I can find is:
>>
>>https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P181
>>
>>"taxon range map image"
>>
>> and:
>>
>>https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1846
>>
>>"distribution map"
>>
>> See also:
>>
>>
>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/30#P1846
>>
>> --
>> Andy Mabbett
>> @pigsonthewing
>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>
>> ___
>> Wikidata mailing list
>> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>>
> ___
> Wikidata mailing list
> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] Is there an "indigenous to" for Plants ?

[Thad Guidry]

Hi Andy !

Thanks !  But, yeah both of those are not useful... because they are image
based and not DATA based.

I need a property that holds location data, so that anyone can build those
images and maps.  This is WikiDATA.

Hmm, location data... so location with a qualifier for "native" or some
such ?  (any precedent here ?)
But that would be flipping it around and possibly would make querying for
data more difficult by map/image builders.

-Thad
+ThadGuidry 


On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 1:02 AM Andy Mabbett 
wrote:

> On 22 September 2018 at 16:52, Thad Guidry  wrote:
>
> > Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage ?
>
> The nearest I can find is:
>
>https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P181
>
>"taxon range map image"
>
> and:
>
>https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1846
>
>"distribution map"
>
> See also:
>
>
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/30#P1846
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> ___
> Wikidata mailing list
> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] Is there an "indigenous to" for Plants ?

[Andy Mabbett]

On 22 September 2018 at 16:52, Thad Guidry  wrote:

> Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage ?

The nearest I can find is:

   https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P181

   "taxon range map image"

and:

   https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1846

   "distribution map"

See also:

   https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/30#P1846

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata