[Wikidata-l] annotating red links
Hi, TL;DR: How can a red link be annotated in a semantic way with a foreign article title or a Wikidata Q item number? Imagine: I'm writing a Wikipedia article in Russian. There's a red link in it. I don't have time to write the target article for that link now, but I'm sure that it should exist. In fact, that article does exist in the English Wikipedia. I want the link to be red (fr the usual wiki reasons), but until the Russian article is written, I want to give the software a hint about which topic it is supposed to be about. Telling it the English article name would be one way to do it. Giving it the Wikidata Q item number would be an even better way to do it. Unfortunately, MediaWiki does not currently have true syntax to do either. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Some Wikipedias may have templates that do something like this (e.g. Russian: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:En ). But there's nothing that is uniform to all projects. *Why* is it useful to give the software this hint in the first place? Most simplistically, it's useful to the reader - in case that reader knows English, she can at least read something. But there's something bigger. When the ContentTranslation extension translates links, it automatically adapts links that can be found. What to do about those that can't be auto-adapted? It frequently happens when Wikipedians translate articles that many links in the created articles turn out to be red. We'd love to get ContentTranslation to help the translators make those articles by writing relevant articles with as few clicks as possible, and that is only possible by annotating the red links with the topics to which they belong. So, any ideas? What do other Wikipedias for such annotation? Is it imaginable to add wiki syntax for such a thing? Can anybody think of a hack that reuses the current [[link]] syntax to add such annotation? -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] annotating red links
Hi Amir, We created a template in the English Wikipedia for this and I used it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koekkoek I also just stumbled across this, which is also acceptable here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wauters The first method keeps the enwiki link red, which is what you want, but the wrapper leads you to Wikidata or to Reasonator. The second method leads you to an article in the language that you may recognize by the prefix, but the color difference from blue is too subtle to notice. It would be nice if we had a gadget that made these orange, the way I have a gadget now that makes redirects look green. Jane On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 8:26 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: Hi, TL;DR: How can a red link be annotated in a semantic way with a foreign article title or a Wikidata Q item number? Imagine: I'm writing a Wikipedia article in Russian. There's a red link in it. I don't have time to write the target article for that link now, but I'm sure that it should exist. In fact, that article does exist in the English Wikipedia. I want the link to be red (fr the usual wiki reasons), but until the Russian article is written, I want to give the software a hint about which topic it is supposed to be about. Telling it the English article name would be one way to do it. Giving it the Wikidata Q item number would be an even better way to do it. Unfortunately, MediaWiki does not currently have true syntax to do either. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Some Wikipedias may have templates that do something like this (e.g. Russian: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:En ). But there's nothing that is uniform to all projects. *Why* is it useful to give the software this hint in the first place? Most simplistically, it's useful to the reader - in case that reader knows English, she can at least read something. But there's something bigger. When the ContentTranslation extension translates links, it automatically adapts links that can be found. What to do about those that can't be auto-adapted? It frequently happens when Wikipedians translate articles that many links in the created articles turn out to be red. We'd love to get ContentTranslation to help the translators make those articles by writing relevant articles with as few clicks as possible, and that is only possible by annotating the red links with the topics to which they belong. So, any ideas? What do other Wikipedias for such annotation? Is it imaginable to add wiki syntax for such a thing? Can anybody think of a hack that reuses the current [[link]] syntax to add such annotation? -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] annotating red links
2015-02-11 22:14 GMT+02:00 Ricordisamoa ricordisa...@openmailbox.org: Adding non-existing pages to Wikidata items? Using a syntax like [Q42[notexistingpagetitle]]? Is this a suggestion for possible syntax or something that actually works somewhere? But yeah, something like this - something that includes the title of a page that doesn't exist in this wiki, but may some to exist some day, and the Q number. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] annotating red links
Yes, Gerard and Jane - this looks like what I'm talking about. If I may dream for a moment, this should be something that can be used in all Wikipedias, and without copying this template everywhere, but built into the site's software :) -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore 2015-02-11 22:47 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com: Hoi, Have a look at this article ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Skolnik_Award Thanks to Magnus for a blog post I am still to write. Thanks, GerardM On 11 February 2015 at 20:26, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: Hi, TL;DR: How can a red link be annotated in a semantic way with a foreign article title or a Wikidata Q item number? Imagine: I'm writing a Wikipedia article in Russian. There's a red link in it. I don't have time to write the target article for that link now, but I'm sure that it should exist. In fact, that article does exist in the English Wikipedia. I want the link to be red (fr the usual wiki reasons), but until the Russian article is written, I want to give the software a hint about which topic it is supposed to be about. Telling it the English article name would be one way to do it. Giving it the Wikidata Q item number would be an even better way to do it. Unfortunately, MediaWiki does not currently have true syntax to do either. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Some Wikipedias may have templates that do something like this (e.g. Russian: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:En ). But there's nothing that is uniform to all projects. *Why* is it useful to give the software this hint in the first place? Most simplistically, it's useful to the reader - in case that reader knows English, she can at least read something. But there's something bigger. When the ContentTranslation extension translates links, it automatically adapts links that can be found. What to do about those that can't be auto-adapted? It frequently happens when Wikipedians translate articles that many links in the created articles turn out to be red. We'd love to get ContentTranslation to help the translators make those articles by writing relevant articles with as few clicks as possible, and that is only possible by annotating the red links with the topics to which they belong. So, any ideas? What do other Wikipedias for such annotation? Is it imaginable to add wiki syntax for such a thing? Can anybody think of a hack that reuses the current [[link]] syntax to add such annotation? -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] annotating red links
Il 11/02/2015 20:26, Amir E. Aharoni ha scritto: Hi, TL;DR: How can a red link be annotated in a semantic way with a foreign article title or a Wikidata Q item number? Imagine: I'm writing a Wikipedia article in Russian. There's a red link in it. I don't have time to write the target article for that link now, but I'm sure that it should exist. In fact, that article does exist in the English Wikipedia. I want the link to be red (fr the usual wiki reasons), but until the Russian article is written, I want to give the software a hint about which topic it is supposed to be about. Telling it the English article name would be one way to do it. Giving it the Wikidata Q item number would be an even better way to do it. Unfortunately, MediaWiki does not currently have true syntax to do either. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Some Wikipedias may have templates that do something like this (e.g. Russian: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:En ). But there's nothing that is uniform to all projects. *Why* is it useful to give the software this hint in the first place? Most simplistically, it's useful to the reader - in case that reader knows English, she can at least read something. But there's something bigger. When the ContentTranslation extension translates links, it automatically adapts links that can be found. What to do about those that can't be auto-adapted? It frequently happens when Wikipedians translate articles that many links in the created articles turn out to be red. We'd love to get ContentTranslation to help the translators make those articles by writing relevant articles with as few clicks as possible, and that is only possible by annotating the red links with the topics to which they belong. So, any ideas? What do other Wikipedias for such annotation? Is it imaginable to add wiki syntax for such a thing? Can anybody think of a hack that reuses the current [[link]] syntax to add such annotation? -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore Adding non-existing pages to Wikidata items? Using a syntax like [Q42[notexistingpagetitle]]? ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] annotating red links
Yeah, looking into labels is certainly something that I considered, but that is by definition only a guess and not as bulletproof as Q numbers. We considered doing stuff like: * [[not-yet-written article about Douglas Adams|Douglas Adams]]!-- wd: Q42 -- * [[not-yet-written article about Douglas Adams#Q42|Douglas Adams]] ... and this would kinda work, but would be leave a lot of mess to the community editors to clean up. The template way, suggested by Gerard, is similar and seems slightly less messy to me. But only slightly. (If anybody cares, the relevant task in ContentTranslation is https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T88580 .) -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore 2015-02-12 7:51 GMT+02:00 Maarten Dammers maar...@mdammers.nl: Hi Amir, Amir E. Aharoni schreef op 11-2-2015 om 13:12: If I may dream for a moment, this should be something that can be used in all Wikipedias, and without copying this template everywhere, but built into the site's software :) Exactly, the template based approach doesn't scale at all. You have to somehow make it automatic. One thing I thought about is adding suggested sitelinks to Wikidata. The software would encounter a red link and would look in Wikidata if it can find an item with a suggested sitelink of the same title. Huge software overhaul so I don't see that happening. Another approach that is probably already possible right now: * Take an article with a red link * Look at the links in the article in other languages. * If you find a link that points to another article which has the same label as the red link in the same language, link to it I wonder how many good results that would give. Maarten ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] annotating red links
Hi Amir, Amir E. Aharoni schreef op 11-2-2015 om 13:12: If I may dream for a moment, this should be something that can be used in all Wikipedias, and without copying this template everywhere, but built into the site's software :) Exactly, the template based approach doesn't scale at all. You have to somehow make it automatic. One thing I thought about is adding suggested sitelinks to Wikidata. The software would encounter a red link and would look in Wikidata if it can find an item with a suggested sitelink of the same title. Huge software overhaul so I don't see that happening. Another approach that is probably already possible right now: * Take an article with a red link * Look at the links in the article in other languages. * If you find a link that points to another article which has the same label as the red link in the same language, link to it I wonder how many good results that would give. Maarten ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] descriptions in mobile app
Hoi, It is pointless to include automated descriptions when they are then saved in a fixed form. The point of automated descriptions is exactly that they change as new statements are made. This is one reason why they are superior to manual descriptions. The other is that when one label is added in a language, it immediately affects all items that include the associated item. When the argument is that external users need the best descriptions available at whatever time, it is best to have the automated descriptions separate. We have enough experience of the disruption caused by failing dumps. Given that there is a need for descriptions for off line usage, it makes sense to consider caching such a file and removing the content that is changed and have it regenerated in a batch process. When a description is needed it can always be generated there and then. These can be used interactively as well. Thanks, GerardM On 9 February 2015 at 13:21, Markus Kroetzsch markus.kroetz...@tu-dresden.de wrote: Hi Magnus, hi Daniel, I don't think file size should be our primary concern here. What may seem big today will be negligible in a few years. Having all data in one place is just easier to work with. I am happy to wait for another 30min for a download if it saves me from implementing another Web service connector in my own code. Compute time is cheap, disk space is cheap, human labour is expensive. Maybe the whole size discussion is a bit of a red herring here anyway. If we are worried about file size, there would maybe be better ways of reducing it. We can split the contents into several smaller dump files, not just for descriptions. We are already doing this when creating RDF dumps, and it would be easy for us to do the same for JSON. We could do this immediately if someone needs it (just let me know and we will set it up for you). However, if we want to provide smaller files, a more effective method would be to split by language rather than by term type: all labels in all languages would still be much bigger than labels+descriptions+aliases in English only, and many applications will not need labels in 300 languages. Anyway, as I said, I do not mind whether the auto-descriptions are stored like normal descriptions or whether they are added to the dump files last minute when generating them. I just need the descriptions in the dumps. Cheers, Markus On 09.02.2015 12:28, Daniel Kinzler wrote: Am 09.02.2015 um 12:25 schrieb Magnus Manske: But wouldn't it be better to keep the dump as it is, for those who don't want triple size (just inventing a number here), and have one separate, or even per-language, dump with just the automated descriptions, for those who want that? Possibly. Depends on how much more data this would actually be. Which also depends on whether we would omit descriptions in languages that can easily be covered by language fallback (e.g. no separate descriptions in de-ch and de-at). -- Markus Kroetzsch Faculty of Computer Science Technische Universität Dresden +49 351 463 38486 http://korrekt.org/ ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
