Re: [WikiEN-l] Bible websites

[WJhonson]

I noticed as I was fixing up one article that we appearently have a tag 
bibleverse that links to *one specific* website.

I'm not comfortable with that sort of approach.  It seems to highly favor a 
particular bible website over other similar ones.

Don't we have a similar issue when linking to a book citation?  That is, we 
provide several sources for the ultimate underlying book citation, not just 
a single link to amazon for example.

Will




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Re: [WikiEN-l] Bible websites

[Ray Saintonge]

wjhon...@aol.com wrote:
> I noticed as I was fixing up one article that we appearently have a tag 
> bibleverse that links to *one specific* website.
>
> I'm not comfortable with that sort of approach.  It seems to highly favor a 
> particular bible website over other similar ones.
Where appropriate, links to Wikisource should be preferred.  The 
Zondervan/Harper-Collins site has a TOS that claims copyright on 
everything; it applies "regardless of whether your access or use is 
intended". Claiming copyright on every version of the Bible that they 
host vaguely resembles copyfraud.

Some of the more recent versions may indeed be copyright encumbered, but 
it would be a good beginning if some of these 2000+ bibleverse links 
that are for the King James version or some non-specific version were 
pointed to Wikisource.

Ec

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Bible websites

[stevertigo]

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Ray Saintonge wrote:
> wjhon...@aol.com wrote:
>> I noticed as I was fixing up one article that we appearently have a tag
>> bibleverse that links to *one specific* website.

Its not "one specific website." See comment: (script being removed
from deprecated site: http://php.ug.cs.usyd.edu.au/~jnot4610 to
http://bibref.hebtools.com. See
[[Template_talk:Bibleverse#PHP_script_moving]]

-Steve

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Bible websites

[WJhonson]

In a message dated 7/5/2009 10:57:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
stv...@gmail.com writes:


> Its not "one specific website." See comment: (script being removed
> from deprecated site: http://php.ug.cs.usyd.edu.au/~jnot4610 to
> http://bibref.hebtools.com. See
> [[Template_talk:Bibleverse#PHP_script_moving]]>>



http://bibref.hebtools.com is
one specific website.

How is that not one website ?

Will




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Re: [WikiEN-l] Bible websites

[Andrew Gray]

2009/7/5  :
> I noticed as I was fixing up one article that we appearently have a tag
> bibleverse that links to *one specific* website.
>
> I'm not comfortable with that sort of approach.  It seems to highly favor a
> particular bible website over other similar ones.
>
> Don't we have a similar issue when linking to a book citation?  That is, we
> provide several sources for the ultimate underlying book citation, not just
> a single link to amazon for example.

Our ISBN links go to a page which generates about twelve thousand
links to different booksellers, libraries, etc.

For things like biblical quotations, it would seem that this is a
marvellous niche for Wikisource, if we can figure out an elegant way
to do it and keep the user functionality.

-- 
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Bible websites

[stevertigo]

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 11:02 AM,  wrote:
> http://bibref.hebtools.com is
> one specific website.
>
> How is that not one website ?

Hm. But is it a local sort of "website?"
>From [[Template_talk:Bibleverse#PHP_script_moving]]:


"I have to move the PHP script dependency from its current location at
http://php.ug.cs.usyd.edu.au/~jnot4610/bibref.php. It will now be
available at http://bibref.hebtools.com/. I will try to avoid removing
the old location for a few weeks. jnothman talk 01:55, 3 March 2009
(UTC)

PS: The new server is slower than the previous, and ideally, we should
hope to acquire space on a **Wikimedia toolserver,** etc., as
requested here. Assistance in moving the script to Wikimedia servers
would be appreciated.

**Toolserver hosting has been approved!** Let me know if you need any
help with the toolserver. And it would be nice if Wikisource was used
where possible; BirgitteSB and I can help with that. John Vandenberg
(chat) 02:25, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
---

-Steve

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Bible websites

[WJhonson]

In a message dated 7/5/2009 11:10:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk writes:


> For things like biblical quotations, it would seem that this is a
> marvellous niche for Wikisource, if we can figure out an elegant way
> to do it and keep the user functionality.>>



Right.  I'm not comfortable with a script which lives off-site, the details 
of which are hidden and unknowable, and I'm not comfortable with a script 
which is evidently choosing, without wiki-input what next site to link the 
user forward.

All of that functionality should be brought in-project.

Will




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Re: [WikiEN-l] Bible websites

[WJhonson]

In a message dated 7/5/2009 11:12:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
stv...@gmail.com writes:


> Hm. But is it a local sort of "website?">>



What are you implying by that?
I have no idea what you mean.

Will




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Re: [WikiEN-l] Bible websites

[stevertigo]

> stv...@gmail.com writes:
>> Hm. But is it a local sort of "website?">>

 wrote:
> What are you implying by that?
> I have no idea what you mean.

The discussion I quoted from a few months ago says something
about moving it to a "toolserver," and then someone indicated
there had been approval for that usage.

>From there, I suppose the  questions are 1) did the move take place
and is it now on a toolserver? 2) is only the work end on the toolserver
such that the interface itself is on a private site - and thus we are sending
traffic to a private site?

-Steve

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Bible websites

[fl]

On Monday, 6 July 2009 2:30 am, stevertigo wrote:
> From there, I suppose the  questions are 1) did the move take place
> and is it now on a toolserver? 2) is only the work end on the 
> toolserver
> such that the interface itself is on a private site - and thus we are 
> sending
> traffic to a private site?

The toolserver is a Wikimedia DE hosted project, with approval from the 
WMF. People who wish to develop tools for WMF projects can apply for 
webspace/shell environment on it somewhere on Meta. (I have webspace at 
http://toolserver.org/~fl/ for example). Plenty of enwiki projects are 
run off it, for example the account creation requests interface is 
located at http://stable.toolserver.org/acc/.

See [[m:Toolserver]] and http://toolserver.org/ for more details.
--
fl
administrator @ enwiki


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Re: [WikiEN-l] Bible websites

[Tim Starling]

Andrew Gray wrote:
> For things like biblical quotations, it would seem that this is a
> marvellous niche for Wikisource, if we can figure out an elegant way
> to do it and keep the user functionality.

Wikisource has a complete translation in modern English, and it
already seems to be annotated with IDs for verses, e.g.



Bible links on Wikipedia don't uniformly use the bibleverse template,
editors just link to any random website. I think the vast majority of
links could go directly to the most recent PD translation on
Wikisource. The relevant template can be updated once every decade or
so as new works come into the public domain.

A lot of bible references don't have a link at all. Maybe we could add
a magic link feature, like we have for RFC and PMID. Then whenever
someone types something that looks like a bible verse reference in
plain text, MediaWiki would automatically convert it to a link. For
cultural neutrality it would obviously have to be internationalised
and support a number of other religious texts. Not impossible though.

-- Tim Starling


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Re: [WikiEN-l] Bible websites

[WJhonson]

In a message dated 7/5/2009 8:32:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
tstarl...@wikimedia.org writes:


> Then whenever
> someone types something that looks like a bible verse reference in
> plain text, MediaWiki would automatically convert it to a link. For
> cultural neutrality it would obviously have to be internationalised
> and support a number of other religious texts. Not impossible though.>>

-

I think that's an excellent suggestion.
Do we have this type of magic link for an ISBN ?

WIll




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Re: [WikiEN-l] Bible websites

[stevertigo]

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Tim Starling wrote:
> Wikisource has a complete translation in modern English, and it
> already seems to be annotated with IDs for verses, e.g.
> 

Hm. Of course, Tim is right - if its public/open domain then
wikisource should host it and we will then link to it. The issue with
the hebtools site/script is that most of its links go to BibleGateway.
 Obviously the current script's sources need to be changed to include
both other gateways like bible.cc and of course wikisource. A choice
of gateways would be preferable.

The current hosted translations/versions on wikisource are:
* Bible (Wycliffe) (1380s)
* Bible (Tyndale) (1526)
* Douay-Rheims Bible (1610)
* King James translation, or “Authorized Version” (1611)
* King James translation, Oxford Standard (1769)
* American Standard translation (1901)
* Bible (Jewish Publication Society 1917)
* World English translation (in progress since 1997)
* Wikisource translation (in progress since 2006)

Note that one of the benefits of using the proprietary portals, aside
from heads-up comparison and better navigation, is that they are
licensed to publish the newer proprietary versions.  Cutting off the
proprietary portals means cutting off the proprietary translations.
The NIV for example is highly popular and referenced (among
Protestants). Hence we have to of course include but not depend on the
proprietary portals.

-Steven

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