Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[Mike Dupont]

How is this,
can you extract the following :
1. only well formed wikisyntax.
2. only where age is given, and over 18
3. only where a {{twitter|account} is given

then i will process those first, and can twitter them we can go from
the responses to process them.
mike

On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 5:01 PM, WereSpielChequers
 wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> I can't give you access to deleted edits, only the community can do that
> and they are notoriously picky as to who they appoint as admins.
>
> Also it is not a practical task for one person or even a dozen persons. Why
> don't you start with my suggestion about articles that are now redirects?
>
> WSC
>
> On 3 July 2012 16:05, Mike Dupont  wrote:
>
>> I am willing to do the work to prepare them, I think that I could find
>> people to help me.
>> please give me access, I will be responsible.
>> mike
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:44 PM, WereSpielChequers
>>  wrote:
>> > Mike do you realise how big a task that would be? We have stats going
>> back
>> > to December 2004 showing millions of such deletions. We have data going
>> > back further, but some of our earliest edits are no longer available.
>> >
>> > Providing we screen out the children releasing personal details, the
>> > copyvio and the attack pages then I doubt anyone would mind you having
>> the
>> > genuinely non-notable. But that means that each such deleted article
>> would
>> > need to be reviewed before giving it to you, and there are millions of
>> > them. Worse still only admins can access those deleted edits and though
>> our
>> > editing community as a whole is broadly stable, the number of active
>> admins
>> > has sharply declined.
>> >
>> > I would suggest that if you want a freely available source of
>> non-noteable
>> > articles you look at our redirects. In particular look for redirects that
>> > aren't just a different spelling of the name, and that have had multiple
>> > edits. That should get you the articles on songs that have been
>> redirected
>> > to the article on a band and of fictional characters that have been
>> > redirected to the film  they appeared in. You don't need access to
>> deleted
>> > revisions and generally they will be closer to notability than "garage
>> band
>> > that will be the next big thing on the Stoke Poges grunge scene once
>> > they've recruited a drummer".
>> >
>> > WSC
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 3 July 2012 07:34, Mike Dupont 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> So people,  I would like to request that all the old non-notable
>> >> articles be given to me for archiving on speedydeletion,
>> >> artists, bands, websites, hotels etc, would that be possible?
>> >> thanks
>> >> mike
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Ken Arromdee 
>> wrote:
>> >> > On Sat, 30 Jun 2012, WereSpielChequers wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'm not inclined to shed a tear for hotel articles, many of which
>> are I
>> >> >> suspect being created by spammers, but David makes an important
>> point re
>> >> >> cultural bias from our lack of sources in certain parts of the world.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Wasn't there a probem where Jimbo wrote an article for a restaurant in
>> >> > South Africa and people tried to delete it for this reason?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ___
>> >> > WikiEN-l mailing list
>> >> > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> James Michael DuPont
>> >> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
>> >> Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
>> >> Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> WikiEN-l mailing list
>> >> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>> >>
>> > ___
>> > WikiEN-l mailing list
>> > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Michael DuPont
>> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
>> Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
>> Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
>>
>> ___
>> WikiEN-l mailing list
>> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>>
> ___
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l



-- 
James Michael DuPont
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
Mozilla Rep ht

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[WereSpielChequers]

Hi Mike,

I can't give you access to deleted edits, only the community can do that
and they are notoriously picky as to who they appoint as admins.

Also it is not a practical task for one person or even a dozen persons. Why
don't you start with my suggestion about articles that are now redirects?

WSC

On 3 July 2012 16:05, Mike Dupont  wrote:

> I am willing to do the work to prepare them, I think that I could find
> people to help me.
> please give me access, I will be responsible.
> mike
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:44 PM, WereSpielChequers
>  wrote:
> > Mike do you realise how big a task that would be? We have stats going
> back
> > to December 2004 showing millions of such deletions. We have data going
> > back further, but some of our earliest edits are no longer available.
> >
> > Providing we screen out the children releasing personal details, the
> > copyvio and the attack pages then I doubt anyone would mind you having
> the
> > genuinely non-notable. But that means that each such deleted article
> would
> > need to be reviewed before giving it to you, and there are millions of
> > them. Worse still only admins can access those deleted edits and though
> our
> > editing community as a whole is broadly stable, the number of active
> admins
> > has sharply declined.
> >
> > I would suggest that if you want a freely available source of
> non-noteable
> > articles you look at our redirects. In particular look for redirects that
> > aren't just a different spelling of the name, and that have had multiple
> > edits. That should get you the articles on songs that have been
> redirected
> > to the article on a band and of fictional characters that have been
> > redirected to the film  they appeared in. You don't need access to
> deleted
> > revisions and generally they will be closer to notability than "garage
> band
> > that will be the next big thing on the Stoke Poges grunge scene once
> > they've recruited a drummer".
> >
> > WSC
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3 July 2012 07:34, Mike Dupont 
> wrote:
> >
> >> So people,  I would like to request that all the old non-notable
> >> articles be given to me for archiving on speedydeletion,
> >> artists, bands, websites, hotels etc, would that be possible?
> >> thanks
> >> mike
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Ken Arromdee 
> wrote:
> >> > On Sat, 30 Jun 2012, WereSpielChequers wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm not inclined to shed a tear for hotel articles, many of which
> are I
> >> >> suspect being created by spammers, but David makes an important
> point re
> >> >> cultural bias from our lack of sources in certain parts of the world.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Wasn't there a probem where Jimbo wrote an article for a restaurant in
> >> > South Africa and people tried to delete it for this reason?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ___
> >> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> >> > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> James Michael DuPont
> >> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
> >> Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
> >> Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
> >>
> >> ___
> >> WikiEN-l mailing list
> >> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >>
> > ___
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
>
> --
> James Michael DuPont
> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
> Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
> Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
>
> ___
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[Mike Dupont]

I am willing to do the work to prepare them, I think that I could find
people to help me.
please give me access, I will be responsible.
mike

On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:44 PM, WereSpielChequers
 wrote:
> Mike do you realise how big a task that would be? We have stats going back
> to December 2004 showing millions of such deletions. We have data going
> back further, but some of our earliest edits are no longer available.
>
> Providing we screen out the children releasing personal details, the
> copyvio and the attack pages then I doubt anyone would mind you having the
> genuinely non-notable. But that means that each such deleted article would
> need to be reviewed before giving it to you, and there are millions of
> them. Worse still only admins can access those deleted edits and though our
> editing community as a whole is broadly stable, the number of active admins
> has sharply declined.
>
> I would suggest that if you want a freely available source of non-noteable
> articles you look at our redirects. In particular look for redirects that
> aren't just a different spelling of the name, and that have had multiple
> edits. That should get you the articles on songs that have been redirected
> to the article on a band and of fictional characters that have been
> redirected to the film  they appeared in. You don't need access to deleted
> revisions and generally they will be closer to notability than "garage band
> that will be the next big thing on the Stoke Poges grunge scene once
> they've recruited a drummer".
>
> WSC
>
>
>
> On 3 July 2012 07:34, Mike Dupont  wrote:
>
>> So people,  I would like to request that all the old non-notable
>> articles be given to me for archiving on speedydeletion,
>> artists, bands, websites, hotels etc, would that be possible?
>> thanks
>> mike
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Ken Arromdee  wrote:
>> > On Sat, 30 Jun 2012, WereSpielChequers wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I'm not inclined to shed a tear for hotel articles, many of which are I
>> >> suspect being created by spammers, but David makes an important point re
>> >> cultural bias from our lack of sources in certain parts of the world.
>> >
>> >
>> > Wasn't there a probem where Jimbo wrote an article for a restaurant in
>> > South Africa and people tried to delete it for this reason?
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > WikiEN-l mailing list
>> > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Michael DuPont
>> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
>> Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
>> Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
>>
>> ___
>> WikiEN-l mailing list
>> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>>
> ___
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l



-- 
James Michael DuPont
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[WereSpielChequers]

Mike do you realise how big a task that would be? We have stats going back
to December 2004 showing millions of such deletions. We have data going
back further, but some of our earliest edits are no longer available.

Providing we screen out the children releasing personal details, the
copyvio and the attack pages then I doubt anyone would mind you having the
genuinely non-notable. But that means that each such deleted article would
need to be reviewed before giving it to you, and there are millions of
them. Worse still only admins can access those deleted edits and though our
editing community as a whole is broadly stable, the number of active admins
has sharply declined.

I would suggest that if you want a freely available source of non-noteable
articles you look at our redirects. In particular look for redirects that
aren't just a different spelling of the name, and that have had multiple
edits. That should get you the articles on songs that have been redirected
to the article on a band and of fictional characters that have been
redirected to the film  they appeared in. You don't need access to deleted
revisions and generally they will be closer to notability than "garage band
that will be the next big thing on the Stoke Poges grunge scene once
they've recruited a drummer".

WSC



On 3 July 2012 07:34, Mike Dupont  wrote:

> So people,  I would like to request that all the old non-notable
> articles be given to me for archiving on speedydeletion,
> artists, bands, websites, hotels etc, would that be possible?
> thanks
> mike
>
> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Ken Arromdee  wrote:
> > On Sat, 30 Jun 2012, WereSpielChequers wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm not inclined to shed a tear for hotel articles, many of which are I
> >> suspect being created by spammers, but David makes an important point re
> >> cultural bias from our lack of sources in certain parts of the world.
> >
> >
> > Wasn't there a probem where Jimbo wrote an article for a restaurant in
> > South Africa and people tried to delete it for this reason?
> >
> >
> > ___
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
>
> --
> James Michael DuPont
> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
> Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
> Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
>
> ___
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[Mike Dupont]

So people,  I would like to request that all the old non-notable
articles be given to me for archiving on speedydeletion,
artists, bands, websites, hotels etc, would that be possible?
thanks
mike

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Ken Arromdee  wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2012, WereSpielChequers wrote:
>>
>> I'm not inclined to shed a tear for hotel articles, many of which are I
>> suspect being created by spammers, but David makes an important point re
>> cultural bias from our lack of sources in certain parts of the world.
>
>
> Wasn't there a probem where Jimbo wrote an article for a restaurant in
> South Africa and people tried to delete it for this reason?
>
>
> ___
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l



-- 
James Michael DuPont
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[Carcharoth]

On 7/3/12, Carcharoth  wrote:
> On 7/2/12, Ken Arromdee  wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Jun 2012, WereSpielChequers wrote:
>>> I'm not inclined to shed a tear for hotel articles, many of which are I
>>> suspect being created by spammers, but David makes an important point re
>>> cultural bias from our lack of sources in certain parts of the world.
>>
>> Wasn't there a probem where Jimbo wrote an article for a restaurant in
>> South Africa and people tried to delete it for this reason?
>
> That would be:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mzoli%27s
>
> Reading the AfD (available in the page history) is a bit of a trip
> down memory lane!

Forgot the link to the original AfD:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mzoli%27s_Meats

Carcharoth

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[Carcharoth]

On 7/2/12, Ken Arromdee  wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2012, WereSpielChequers wrote:
>> I'm not inclined to shed a tear for hotel articles, many of which are I
>> suspect being created by spammers, but David makes an important point re
>> cultural bias from our lack of sources in certain parts of the world.
>
> Wasn't there a probem where Jimbo wrote an article for a restaurant in
> South Africa and people tried to delete it for this reason?

That would be:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mzoli%27s

Reading the AfD (available in the page history) is a bit of a trip
down memory lane!

Carcharoth

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[Ken Arromdee]

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012, WereSpielChequers wrote:

I'm not inclined to shed a tear for hotel articles, many of which are I
suspect being created by spammers, but David makes an important point re
cultural bias from our lack of sources in certain parts of the world.


Wasn't there a probem where Jimbo wrote an article for a restaurant in
South Africa and people tried to delete it for this reason?

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[WereSpielChequers]

I'm not inclined to shed a tear for hotel articles, many of which are I
suspect being created by spammers, but David makes an important point re
cultural bias from our lack of sources in certain parts of the world.

My view on this is that this is one area where a little bit of money
judiciously applied could go a long way. There must be large offline
archives of Newspapers, TV and Radio programs and other sources which could
be digitised quite cheaply. If the WMF were to grant fund this in some of
the poorest countries on Earth it would be money well spent.

WSC

On 29 June 2012 19:19, David Goodman  wrote:

> The India related pages are typically being deleted because of the
> lack of references in the submitted article, and the almost total
> inability of editors elsewhere to find sources for this area except
> of a few major newspapers. It is extremely frustrating  to find such
> an article on Proposed Deletion, about  someone I can guess is likely
> to be notable, but where I can find no references to indicate this--if
> there is no response from the editor who added it, what alternative is
> there for me to do but delete it?  We can potentially vary our
> notability standards to account for WP:Cultural bias, but I cannot see
> us abandoning the principle of WP:Verifiability and remaining an
> encyclopedia.
>
> , Jun 25, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Mike  Dupont 
> wrote:
> > Thanks Martjn,
> > yes, that is what I am saying, people are willing to submit trivial
> > data for the hope of becoming famous,
> > because WP is now the number one web page, instead of deleting it, I
> > say, lets process it.
> >
> > I have been studying the speedy deletion data for the past days,
> > tuning my program, of course there is a lot of junk in there, but it
> > seem that something similar is happening with the indian subcontinent,
> > many pages are just being deleted because why would some actor or
> > doctor in india or pakistan ever be notable for the western world.
> > But if you ever wanted to study the culture of that area, such
> > articles would be useful. If you wanted to encourage editors from that
> > area, then it is better to thank people for the data instead of
> > deleting it.
> >
> > For my work in kosovo, trying to find contributors is very hard and
> > having a way to collect data for free is great.
> >
> > Also I am interested in free software and it seems that many free
> > software program articles are also being deleted, I am happy to have
> > copies of them.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > mike
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Martijn Hoekstra
> >  wrote:
> >> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Carcharoth <
> carcharot...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>> On 6/25/12, Martijn Hoekstra  wrote:
> >>>
>  What's wrong with "Hi, thanks for your stuff. It didn't belong here,
>  so we put it there for you" rather than "Hi, you put stuff here that
>  didn't belong here. Bad user. Find an admin that will email your stuff
>  for you through a murky procedure, so you can put it there yourself"?
> >>>
> >>> I should have been clearer that if people want to spend their time
> >>> doing that, fine. But there are other things on Wikipedia that need
> >>> doing more urgently. Trans-wikiiing or moving stuff around is
> >>> laudable, but is a sideshow to the core aim of producing and improving
> >>> the quality of the online encyclopedia (as opposed to the online
> >>> travel guide or hotel guide or whatever). The problem is that this
> >>> sort of exhortation tends to fail when a volunteer workforce is
> >>> involved. And I am aware that it is possible for different online
> >>> freely licensed sites to work together in synergy, exchanging material
> >>> as needed, but it still feels like a distraction from the core
> >>> activities.
> >>>
> >>> Carcharoth
> >>>
> >>
> >> Maybe I'm misreading the thread, but I think that Mike was proposing
> >> to use the wiki for deleted articles he set up to use this information
> >> to move it over to OSM. I was slightly amazed that this seemed to be
> >> received as a bad idea in Carcharoths post. I am not suggesting that
> >> any administrator or editor *should* do this, but it should be
> >> applauded, ot at least shouldn't be discouraged if an editor does do
> >> that.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> WikiEN-l mailing list
> >> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > James Michael DuPont
> > Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
> > Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
> > Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
> >
> > ___
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
>
> --
> David Goodman
>

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[David Goodman]

The India related pages are typically being deleted because of the
lack of references in the submitted article, and the almost total
inability of editors elsewhere to find sources for this area except
of a few major newspapers. It is extremely frustrating  to find such
an article on Proposed Deletion, about  someone I can guess is likely
to be notable, but where I can find no references to indicate this--if
there is no response from the editor who added it, what alternative is
there for me to do but delete it?  We can potentially vary our
notability standards to account for WP:Cultural bias, but I cannot see
us abandoning the principle of WP:Verifiability and remaining an
encyclopedia.

, Jun 25, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Mike  Dupont  wrote:
> Thanks Martjn,
> yes, that is what I am saying, people are willing to submit trivial
> data for the hope of becoming famous,
> because WP is now the number one web page, instead of deleting it, I
> say, lets process it.
>
> I have been studying the speedy deletion data for the past days,
> tuning my program, of course there is a lot of junk in there, but it
> seem that something similar is happening with the indian subcontinent,
> many pages are just being deleted because why would some actor or
> doctor in india or pakistan ever be notable for the western world.
> But if you ever wanted to study the culture of that area, such
> articles would be useful. If you wanted to encourage editors from that
> area, then it is better to thank people for the data instead of
> deleting it.
>
> For my work in kosovo, trying to find contributors is very hard and
> having a way to collect data for free is great.
>
> Also I am interested in free software and it seems that many free
> software program articles are also being deleted, I am happy to have
> copies of them.
>
> thanks,
>
> mike
>
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Martijn Hoekstra
>  wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Carcharoth  
>> wrote:
>>> On 6/25/12, Martijn Hoekstra  wrote:
>>>
 What's wrong with "Hi, thanks for your stuff. It didn't belong here,
 so we put it there for you" rather than "Hi, you put stuff here that
 didn't belong here. Bad user. Find an admin that will email your stuff
 for you through a murky procedure, so you can put it there yourself"?
>>>
>>> I should have been clearer that if people want to spend their time
>>> doing that, fine. But there are other things on Wikipedia that need
>>> doing more urgently. Trans-wikiiing or moving stuff around is
>>> laudable, but is a sideshow to the core aim of producing and improving
>>> the quality of the online encyclopedia (as opposed to the online
>>> travel guide or hotel guide or whatever). The problem is that this
>>> sort of exhortation tends to fail when a volunteer workforce is
>>> involved. And I am aware that it is possible for different online
>>> freely licensed sites to work together in synergy, exchanging material
>>> as needed, but it still feels like a distraction from the core
>>> activities.
>>>
>>> Carcharoth
>>>
>>
>> Maybe I'm misreading the thread, but I think that Mike was proposing
>> to use the wiki for deleted articles he set up to use this information
>> to move it over to OSM. I was slightly amazed that this seemed to be
>> received as a bad idea in Carcharoths post. I am not suggesting that
>> any administrator or editor *should* do this, but it should be
>> applauded, ot at least shouldn't be discouraged if an editor does do
>> that.
>>
>> ___
>> WikiEN-l mailing list
>> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
>
> --
> James Michael DuPont
> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
> Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
> Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
>
> ___
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l



-- 
David Goodman

DGG at the enWP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DGG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[Mike Dupont]

Thanks Martjn,
yes, that is what I am saying, people are willing to submit trivial
data for the hope of becoming famous,
because WP is now the number one web page, instead of deleting it, I
say, lets process it.

I have been studying the speedy deletion data for the past days,
tuning my program, of course there is a lot of junk in there, but it
seem that something similar is happening with the indian subcontinent,
many pages are just being deleted because why would some actor or
doctor in india or pakistan ever be notable for the western world.
But if you ever wanted to study the culture of that area, such
articles would be useful. If you wanted to encourage editors from that
area, then it is better to thank people for the data instead of
deleting it.

For my work in kosovo, trying to find contributors is very hard and
having a way to collect data for free is great.

Also I am interested in free software and it seems that many free
software program articles are also being deleted, I am happy to have
copies of them.

thanks,

mike

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Martijn Hoekstra
 wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Carcharoth  
> wrote:
>> On 6/25/12, Martijn Hoekstra  wrote:
>>
>>> What's wrong with "Hi, thanks for your stuff. It didn't belong here,
>>> so we put it there for you" rather than "Hi, you put stuff here that
>>> didn't belong here. Bad user. Find an admin that will email your stuff
>>> for you through a murky procedure, so you can put it there yourself"?
>>
>> I should have been clearer that if people want to spend their time
>> doing that, fine. But there are other things on Wikipedia that need
>> doing more urgently. Trans-wikiiing or moving stuff around is
>> laudable, but is a sideshow to the core aim of producing and improving
>> the quality of the online encyclopedia (as opposed to the online
>> travel guide or hotel guide or whatever). The problem is that this
>> sort of exhortation tends to fail when a volunteer workforce is
>> involved. And I am aware that it is possible for different online
>> freely licensed sites to work together in synergy, exchanging material
>> as needed, but it still feels like a distraction from the core
>> activities.
>>
>> Carcharoth
>>
>
> Maybe I'm misreading the thread, but I think that Mike was proposing
> to use the wiki for deleted articles he set up to use this information
> to move it over to OSM. I was slightly amazed that this seemed to be
> received as a bad idea in Carcharoths post. I am not suggesting that
> any administrator or editor *should* do this, but it should be
> applauded, ot at least shouldn't be discouraged if an editor does do
> that.
>
> ___
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l



-- 
James Michael DuPont
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[Martijn Hoekstra]

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Carcharoth  wrote:
> On 6/25/12, Martijn Hoekstra  wrote:
>
>> What's wrong with "Hi, thanks for your stuff. It didn't belong here,
>> so we put it there for you" rather than "Hi, you put stuff here that
>> didn't belong here. Bad user. Find an admin that will email your stuff
>> for you through a murky procedure, so you can put it there yourself"?
>
> I should have been clearer that if people want to spend their time
> doing that, fine. But there are other things on Wikipedia that need
> doing more urgently. Trans-wikiiing or moving stuff around is
> laudable, but is a sideshow to the core aim of producing and improving
> the quality of the online encyclopedia (as opposed to the online
> travel guide or hotel guide or whatever). The problem is that this
> sort of exhortation tends to fail when a volunteer workforce is
> involved. And I am aware that it is possible for different online
> freely licensed sites to work together in synergy, exchanging material
> as needed, but it still feels like a distraction from the core
> activities.
>
> Carcharoth
>

Maybe I'm misreading the thread, but I think that Mike was proposing
to use the wiki for deleted articles he set up to use this information
to move it over to OSM. I was slightly amazed that this seemed to be
received as a bad idea in Carcharoths post. I am not suggesting that
any administrator or editor *should* do this, but it should be
applauded, ot at least shouldn't be discouraged if an editor does do
that.

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[Carcharoth]

On 6/25/12, Martijn Hoekstra  wrote:

> What's wrong with "Hi, thanks for your stuff. It didn't belong here,
> so we put it there for you" rather than "Hi, you put stuff here that
> didn't belong here. Bad user. Find an admin that will email your stuff
> for you through a murky procedure, so you can put it there yourself"?

I should have been clearer that if people want to spend their time
doing that, fine. But there are other things on Wikipedia that need
doing more urgently. Trans-wikiiing or moving stuff around is
laudable, but is a sideshow to the core aim of producing and improving
the quality of the online encyclopedia (as opposed to the online
travel guide or hotel guide or whatever). The problem is that this
sort of exhortation tends to fail when a volunteer workforce is
involved. And I am aware that it is possible for different online
freely licensed sites to work together in synergy, exchanging material
as needed, but it still feels like a distraction from the core
activities.

Carcharoth

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[Tom Morris]

On 25 June 2012 12:57, Martijn Hoekstra  wrote:
> What's wrong with "Hi, thanks for your stuff. It didn't belong here,
> so we put it there for you" rather than "Hi, you put stuff here that
> didn't belong here. Bad user. Find an admin that will email your stuff
> for you through a murky procedure, so you can put it there yourself"?
>

So, what you are saying is that to properly handle new page
patrolling, users now need to know how to edit OpenStreetMap. Like
with Wikipedia, the process of learning how to edit OSM well is a
non-trivial one.

Also, most Wikipedians didn't start editing Wikipedia to help provide
better business listings but to improve articles about interesting,
notable topics.

And I say that as a Wikipedian who is also an OSMer who spends a
non-trivial amount of time adding shops and businesses to OSM. ;-)

-- 
Tom Morris


___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[Martijn Hoekstra]

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Carcharoth  wrote:
> On 6/25/12, Mike  Dupont  wrote:
>
>> it is hard to collect all this information for osm, so why not have
>> people add it to wikpedia first?
>
> Wouldn't it be more efficient to direct people to OSM and wikitravel
> in the first place, rather than use Wikipedia as a staging ground? I
> know people assume that Wikipedia is the place for everything, but if
> people are going to get out of that mindset, you need to tell them
> they were in the wrong place, and not just move stuff for them.
>
> Carcharoth
>

What's wrong with "Hi, thanks for your stuff. It didn't belong here,
so we put it there for you" rather than "Hi, you put stuff here that
didn't belong here. Bad user. Find an admin that will email your stuff
for you through a murky procedure, so you can put it there yourself"?

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[Carcharoth]

On 6/25/12, Mike  Dupont  wrote:

> it is hard to collect all this information for osm, so why not have
> people add it to wikpedia first?

Wouldn't it be more efficient to direct people to OSM and wikitravel
in the first place, rather than use Wikipedia as a staging ground? I
know people assume that Wikipedia is the place for everything, but if
people are going to get out of that mindset, you need to tell them
they were in the wrong place, and not just move stuff for them.

Carcharoth

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[Mike Dupont]

well wikitravel and openstreetmap are a good place to land those,
and I guess I will collect them in the speedy deletion wiki and
process them there,
since i started the wiki there have been no hotels there,
http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=hotel&fulltext=Search

it is hard to collect all this information for osm, so why not have
people add it to wikpedia first?

mike

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:14 AM, David Goodman  wrote:
> Apparently we need to be a good deal stricter about  hotel entries.
> Notability we can deal with--the content in them is considerably more
> difficult to police.
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Carcharoth  
> wrote:
>> On 6/22/12, David Gerard  wrote:
>>> http://www.hospitalitynet.org/news/4056585.html
>>>
>>> I suspect we may have (how do I put this) an opportunity to be helpful
>>> to an influx of newbies with not-so-good articles in need of
>>> improvement.
>>
>> Quoting from that:
>>
>> "Wikipedia - CoMMingle will set up a Wikipedia listing if one does not
>> exist and create social links. CoMMingle will also monitor the
>> Wikipedia listing quarterly and check content for accuracy."
>>
>>> (Is there a good place on-wiki to note such endeavours? One of the VPs?)
>>
>> Probably. I'm tempted to suggest WikiProject Spam. It is worrying how
>> Wikipedia is associated by some with social media.
>>
>> Carcharoth
>>
>> ___
>> WikiEN-l mailing list
>> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
>
> --
> David Goodman
>
> DGG at the enWP
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DGG
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG
>
> ___
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l



-- 
James Michael DuPont
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[David Goodman]

Apparently we need to be a good deal stricter about  hotel entries.
Notability we can deal with--the content in them is considerably more
difficult to police.

On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Carcharoth  wrote:
> On 6/22/12, David Gerard  wrote:
>> http://www.hospitalitynet.org/news/4056585.html
>>
>> I suspect we may have (how do I put this) an opportunity to be helpful
>> to an influx of newbies with not-so-good articles in need of
>> improvement.
>
> Quoting from that:
>
> "Wikipedia - CoMMingle will set up a Wikipedia listing if one does not
> exist and create social links. CoMMingle will also monitor the
> Wikipedia listing quarterly and check content for accuracy."
>
>> (Is there a good place on-wiki to note such endeavours? One of the VPs?)
>
> Probably. I'm tempted to suggest WikiProject Spam. It is worrying how
> Wikipedia is associated by some with social media.
>
> Carcharoth
>
> ___
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l



-- 
David Goodman

DGG at the enWP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DGG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[Carcharoth]

On 6/22/12, David Gerard  wrote:
> http://www.hospitalitynet.org/news/4056585.html
>
> I suspect we may have (how do I put this) an opportunity to be helpful
> to an influx of newbies with not-so-good articles in need of
> improvement.

Quoting from that:

"Wikipedia - CoMMingle will set up a Wikipedia listing if one does not
exist and create social links. CoMMingle will also monitor the
Wikipedia listing quarterly and check content for accuracy."

> (Is there a good place on-wiki to note such endeavours? One of the VPs?)

Probably. I'm tempted to suggest WikiProject Spam. It is worrying how
Wikipedia is associated by some with social media.

Carcharoth

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

[WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as part of a social media strategy for hotels

[David Gerard]

http://www.hospitalitynet.org/news/4056585.html

I suspect we may have (how do I put this) an opportunity to be helpful
to an influx of newbies with not-so-good articles in need of
improvement.

(Is there a good place on-wiki to note such endeavours? One of the VPs?)


- d.

___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l