Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Stewards elected

[Katherine Maher]

Congratulations, welcome, and thank you for all you do.

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 7:56 AM Johan Jönsson  wrote:

> 2018-02-28 22:14 GMT+01:00 Mardetanha :
>
> > Hey Wikimedia community
> > after a long election we finally have couple new stewards elected
> >
> >
> >1. علاء <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:%D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%A1>
> > (
> >talk  > D8%A7%D8%A1>
> > · contribs
> > > D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%A1>
> >)
> >2. Green Giant 
> (talk
> > · contribs
> >)
> >3. Rxy  (talk
> > · contribs
> >)
> >4. -revi  (talk
> > · contribs
> >)
> >5. There'sNoTime <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:There%27sNoTime>
> > (
> >talk  ·
> >contribs
> ><
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/There%27sNoTime
> > >)
> >
> >
> > please join me in welcoming them for the new position and congratulating
> > them for gaining communities trust.
>
>
> Welcome, new stewards. And thank you.
>
> //Johan Jönsson
> --
> ___
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-- 
Katherine Maher

Executive Director
Wikimedia Foundation

1 Montgomery Street, Suite 1600
San Francisco, CA 94104

+1 (415) 839-6885 ext. 6635
+1 (415) 712 4873
kma...@wikimedia.org
https://annual.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Stewards elected

[Johan Jönsson]

2018-02-28 22:14 GMT+01:00 Mardetanha :

> Hey Wikimedia community
> after a long election we finally have couple new stewards elected
>
>
>1. علاء 
> (
>talk  D8%A7%D8%A1>
> · contribs
> D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%A1>
>)
>2. Green Giant  (talk
> · contribs
>)
>3. Rxy  (talk
> · contribs
>)
>4. -revi  (talk
> · contribs
>)
>5. There'sNoTime 
> (
>talk  ·
>contribs
> >)
>
>
> please join me in welcoming them for the new position and congratulating
> them for gaining communities trust.


Welcome, new stewards. And thank you.

//Johan Jönsson
--
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Stewards elected

[Lodewijk]

My best wishes to the new stewards! Enjoy the ride, with all these exciting
communities...

Lodewijk

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 9:14 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Compared to the low point of 2016, it is glad that for another year we had
> enough elected candidates.
> Five is a good number.
>
> Il Giovedì 1 Marzo 2018 1:36, Md. Ibrahim Husain 
> ha scritto:
>
>
>  Congrats to the new stewards.
>
> On Thursday, March 1, 2018, Mardetanha  wrote:
>
> > Hey Wikimedia community
> > after a long election we finally have couple new stewards elected
> >
> >
> >1. علاء  D8%A1>
> > (
> >talk  > D8%A7%D8%A1>
> >· contribs
> > > D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%A1>
> >)
> >2. Green Giant 
> (talk
> > · contribs
> >)
> >3. Rxy  (talk
> > · contribs
> >)
> >4. -revi  (talk
> > · contribs
> >)
> >5. There'sNoTime  wiki/User:There%27sNoTime>
> > (
> >talk  ·
> >contribs
> > There%27sNoTime
> > >)
> >
> >
> > please join me in welcoming them for the new position and congratulating
> > them for gaining communities trust.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mardetanha
> > On behalf of election committee
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
> --
> Mohammad Ibrahim Husain
> Mobile: 01921 584733
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Stewards elected

[Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l]

Compared to the low point of 2016, it is glad that for another year we had 
enough elected candidates. 
Five is a good number. 

Il Giovedì 1 Marzo 2018 1:36, Md. Ibrahim Husain  ha 
scritto:
 

 Congrats to the new stewards.

On Thursday, March 1, 2018, Mardetanha  wrote:

> Hey Wikimedia community
> after a long election we finally have couple new stewards elected
>
>
>    1. علاء 
> (
>    talk  D8%A7%D8%A1>
>    · contribs
>     D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%A1>
>    )
>    2. Green Giant  (talk
>     · contribs
>    )
>    3. Rxy  (talk
>     · contribs
>    )
>    4. -revi  (talk
>     · contribs
>    )
>    5. There'sNoTime 
> (
>    talk  ·
>    contribs
>     >)
>
>
> please join me in welcoming them for the new position and congratulating
> them for gaining communities trust.
>
>
>
> Mardetanha
> On behalf of election committee
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 



-- 
Mohammad Ibrahim Husain
Mobile: 01921 584733
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Erik Moeller]

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:31 PM, James Heilman  wrote:
> I am not seeing any link to Facebook here?
>
> https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetm%C9%99_(roman)

It's part of a banner, not sure the banner is set to 100%. It says:

"Azərbaycanca Vikipediya ilə daim əlaqədə olmaq üçün bizi "Facebook"da izləyin!"

in small font at the top, with a link to:

https://www.facebook.com/azvikipediya

Personally, I'd love to see WMF or a chapter set up a public Mastodon
instance; the project has matured significantly since its first
release and is at least a viable free/open alternative to the
Twitter-ish forms of social networking. FB still has event management
functions that are difficult to substitute, however.

Erik

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[James Heilman]

I am not seeing any link to Facebook here?

https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetm%C9%99_(roman)

James

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 2:14 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:

> Ok, thank you. To my mind the main problem with that kind of practice
> pertain to the lake of Free-Libre-Archivable-Infrastructure-Rack (FLAIR)
> alternative along the proprietary platform. One problem with this platform,
> is that – as far as I know – we don't have comprehensive archives, let
> alone an archive policy. If tomorrow a proprietary platform decide to erase
> all data related to a group, as far as I know they can do so¹.
>
> Also, as I usually don't employ this services, so I don't know to which
> extend this groups can enforce a free license policy for everything
> published there. This plus terms of service, I have no idea how legal a
> problem it would be to dump this group discussions into a public archive.
>
> Anyway, would a FLAIR alternative be proposed, I would see no point in
> promoting the closed garden within Wikimedia projects, although bridges
> which automatically synchronize data flow on popular closed platforms would
> be still obviously important to maintain.
>
> Actually, even here I think that we should make a policy that submitting
> to our mailling list is conditioned by agreement that the posted material
> will be published under a free license.
>
> Cheers
>
> ¹ Let alone duty to keep a record of everything enforced by this or that
> law, the thing is that it can become offline instantly.
>
>
>
> Le 28/02/2018 à 21:32, Yaroslav Blanter a écrit :
>
>> At your service
>>
>> https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetmə_(roman)
>>
>> Cheers
>> Yaroslav
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 9:26 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
>> psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:
>>
>> Saluton,
>>>
>>> Can we actually have a link to a page with a concrete example so we can
>>> judge this factually?
>>>
>>> Vikiame
>>>
>>> Le 28/02/2018 à 20:43, Asaf Bartov a écrit :
>>>
>>> Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority
 of
 Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some
 kind
 of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing
 visitors
 to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
 i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.
 It
 is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
 explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
 general.

 As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
 Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement
 can
 be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
 group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach,
 awareness,
 and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.

 Cheers,

  Asaf

 On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales 
 wrote:

 Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of

> any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
> should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
> especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
> take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
>
>
>
> On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
>
> I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
>> consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not?
>> Because
>>
>> it
>
> same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
>> website.
>>
>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>
>> 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :
>>
>> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
>> policy.
>> James
>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
>>>
>>> minatahats...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
>>> communities
>>>
>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
>>
>>> Page
>>>
>> or
>>
>>> Sitenotice?

 I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,

 Arabic
>>>
>>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of

 Facebook
>>>
>>> as verified.

 All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a
 link

 as
>>>
>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook
>> and
>>
>>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Stewards elected

[Md. Ibrahim Husain]

Congrats to the new stewards.

On Thursday, March 1, 2018, Mardetanha  wrote:

> Hey Wikimedia community
> after a long election we finally have couple new stewards elected
>
>
>1. علاء 
> (
>talk  D8%A7%D8%A1>
> · contribs
> D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%A1>
>)
>2. Green Giant  (talk
> · contribs
>)
>3. Rxy  (talk
> · contribs
>)
>4. -revi  (talk
> · contribs
>)
>5. There'sNoTime 
> (
>talk  ·
>contribs
> >)
>
>
> please join me in welcoming them for the new position and congratulating
> them for gaining communities trust.
>
>
>
> Mardetanha
> On behalf of election committee
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 



-- 
Mohammad Ibrahim Husain
Mobile: 01921 584733
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] knowing English is a privilege (was Re: Paid translation)

[Asaf Bartov]

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 1:09 PM James Salsman  wrote:

> > We are not *teaching* encyclopedia articles.
>
> What is the difference between delivering the text of an encyclopedia
> article and teaching it?


Depending on one's understanding of "teaching", and its expected outcomes,
the difference can be significant. It can, for example, imply a different
exposition of information, or include comprehension questions and
drilling.  It can include student assessment (grading), statistics, etc.


> Encyclopedias are not written to be
> accompanied by a lecturer, tutor, or teacher.


That's true.  They're designed for self-study. But that does not mean an
encyclopedic article is the best vessel for teaching a topic.  Certainly,
most people cannot effectively pick up a language from reading the
Wikipedia articles about its morphology and syntax.


> Knowing any language is a privilege, and suggesting that there is any
> reason to narrow the Foundation's focus away from language instruction
> seems completely absurd to me.
>

I think there can be no doubt that languages are knowledge, and that
therefore language instruction falls squarely within the Wikimedia mission
"to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop
educational content under a free license or in the public domain, and to
disseminate it effectively and globally."

But being within our mission is not enough to be actively pursued, and I
assume that by "the Foundation's focus", you're referring not just to the
mission, but to the set of things the Foundation is actively pursuing and
investing in, i.e. to its current strategy and goals.

It seems to me that the main argument for adding *language instruction* to
the set of goals the Foundation (or wider movement) actively pursues would
be some demonstration that the Wikimedia movement is *well-equipped to do
it very well*, especially compared to the relatively rich set of products
and solutions in the language instruction space.

I acknowledge that very few of those are free/libre.  But most people don't
use Wikipedia because it's free/libre; they use it because it's free of
cost and because it's really, really useful.  Likewise, we'd need to
convince ourselves we can do significantly better than Duolingo, Babbel,
Mondly, Mango, Busuu, etc., to make it a worthwhile pursuit for the
Wikimedia movement at this time, being as it would be (as always) at the
cost of pursuing other goals.

> Wikimedia should be busy getting even better at its main thing: wiki
> articles.
>
> Why? We are already the best at that. Why not make the wiki articles
> in Wiktionary better by not just playing audio recordings of words,
> which volunteers (not the Foundation) already provide, but meeting
> that initiative by recording utterances and predicting whether they
> are intelligible pronunciations, and doing the same with recording
> gadgets in Wikipedia's pronunciation articles? http://j.mp/irslides


I think that's a very interesting direction.  I would suggest that it would
only make sense to invest in, if at all, once we have Lexical data entities
in Wikidata. (soon!)

A.
   (personal capacity)
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[Wikimedia-l] New Stewards elected

[Mardetanha]

Hey Wikimedia community
after a long election we finally have couple new stewards elected


   1. علاء  (
   talk 
· contribs
   

   )
   2. Green Giant  (talk
    · contribs
   )
   3. Rxy  (talk
    · contribs
   )
   4. -revi  (talk
    · contribs
   )
   5. There'sNoTime  (
   talk  ·
   contribs
   )


please join me in welcoming them for the new position and congratulating
them for gaining communities trust.



Mardetanha
On behalf of election committee
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[mathieu stumpf guntz]

Ok, thank you. To my mind the main problem with that kind of practice 
pertain to the lake of Free-Libre-Archivable-Infrastructure-Rack (FLAIR) 
alternative along the proprietary platform. One problem with this 
platform, is that – as far as I know – we don't have comprehensive 
archives, let alone an archive policy. If tomorrow a proprietary 
platform decide to erase all data related to a group, as far as I know 
they can do so¹.


Also, as I usually don't employ this services, so I don't know to which 
extend this groups can enforce a free license policy for everything 
published there. This plus terms of service, I have no idea how legal a 
problem it would be to dump this group discussions into a public archive.


Anyway, would a FLAIR alternative be proposed, I would see no point in 
promoting the closed garden within Wikimedia projects, although bridges 
which automatically synchronize data flow on popular closed platforms 
would be still obviously important to maintain.


Actually, even here I think that we should make a policy that submitting 
to our mailling list is conditioned by agreement that the posted 
material will be published under a free license.


Cheers

¹ Let alone duty to keep a record of everything enforced by this or that 
law, the thing is that it can become offline instantly.



Le 28/02/2018 à 21:32, Yaroslav Blanter a écrit :

At your service

https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetmə_(roman)

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 9:26 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:


Saluton,

Can we actually have a link to a page with a concrete example so we can
judge this factually?

Vikiame

Le 28/02/2018 à 20:43, Asaf Bartov a écrit :


Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority
of
Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some
kind
of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
general.

As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.

Cheers,

 Asaf

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales 
wrote:

Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of

any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.



On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:


I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because


it


same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
website.

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian

2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :

IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
policy.
James

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <


minatahats...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
communities

put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main

Page

or

Sitenotice?

I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,


Arabic


Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of


Facebook


as verified.

All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link


as

"official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and

violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects


can

do

that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
promotion to Facebook at <
https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22


. If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.


Thank you!

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian
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--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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[Wikimedia-l] knowing English is a privilege (was Re: Paid translation)

[James Salsman]

> building an authoritative dictionary is considerably
> harder than building a (de facto) authoritative encyclopedia.

What reason is there to think that? My any measure of editor hours, or
the amount of money it would take to replicate the effort, or the
maintenance load going forward, I'm sure that even a three shelf foot
encyclopedia is harder than a 100,000 word dictionary.

> We are not *teaching* encyclopedia articles.

What is the difference between delivering the text of an encyclopedia
article and teaching it? Encyclopedias are not written to be
accompanied by a lecturer, tutor, or teacher. We even teach how to
write them, to students, in schools, and the students often if not
almost always get academic credit for their work:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Education_program/Educators

Knowing any language is a privilege, and suggesting that there is any
reason to narrow the Foundation's focus away from language instruction
seems completely absurd to me.

> Wikimedia should be busy getting even better at its main thing: wiki articles.

Why? We are already the best at that. Why not make the wiki articles
in Wiktionary better by not just playing audio recordings of words,
which volunteers (not the Foundation) already provide, but meeting
that initiative by recording utterances and predicting whether they
are intelligible pronunciations, and doing the same with recording
gadgets in Wikipedia's pronunciation articles? http://j.mp/irslides

I'm serious that I think the Foundation should hire all my Google
Summer of Code students to support doing that, because it will take
about that many people to set it up so that volunteers can complete
the work for all languages, not just English.

There is no reason that the Foundation can't both pay to translate
Wikipedia articles and pay to up Wiktionary's language instruction
game at the same time. That would have made sense ten years ago, and
the budget is much larger now. We are at a juncture in aligning our
long term strategy to the mission, so I hope both projects get funded.
If it has to be proposed budget-neutral to be compelling, then get rid
of the mobile app and mobile web versions except on platforms where
they are genuinely easier for editors, not just readers, to use.

Best regards,
Jim

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Yaroslav Blanter]

At your service

https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetmə_(roman)

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 9:26 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:

> Saluton,
>
> Can we actually have a link to a page with a concrete example so we can
> judge this factually?
>
> Vikiame
>
> Le 28/02/2018 à 20:43, Asaf Bartov a écrit :
>
>> Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority
>> of
>> Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some
>> kind
>> of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
>> to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
>> i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
>> is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
>> explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
>> general.
>>
>> As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
>> Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
>> be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
>> group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
>> and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Asaf
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
>>> any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
>>> should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
>>> especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
>>> take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
>>>
 I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
 consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because

>>> it
>>>
 same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
 website.

 Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
 Vietnamese Wikimedian

 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :

 IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
>
 policy.
>>>
 James
>
> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
>
 minatahats...@gmail.com>
>>>
 wrote:
>
> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
>>
> communities
>>>
 put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
>>
> Page
>>>
 or
>
>> Sitenotice?
>>
>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
>>
> Arabic
>
>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
>>
> Facebook
>
>> as verified.
>>
>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link
>>
> as
>>>
 "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects
>>
> can
>>>
 do
>
>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
>> promotion to Facebook at <
>> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
>>
>>> . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>> ___
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>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> ,
>> 
>>
>
>
>
> --
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> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

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 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

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>>>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[mathieu stumpf guntz]

Le 28/02/2018 à 20:44, Dariusz Jemielniak a écrit :

My personal preference is to NOT link to Facebook. I think they use the
energy of people enough already.

However, I also think it is up to local communities to decide what works
for them best, there is no "one size fits all" here, IMHO
Sure, it's good to let them decide, and it's also good to give feed back 
of what see as possible issue or not especially when asked for such an 
opinion. :)




best,

DJ "pundit"

On Feb 28, 2018 20:06, "Jimmy Wales"  wrote:

Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.



On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:

I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because it
same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
website.

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian

2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :


IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global

policy.

James

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune 
wrote:


Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia

communities

put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page

or

Sitenotice?

I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,

Arabic

Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of

Facebook

as verified.

All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link

as

"official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can

do

that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
promotion to Facebook at <
https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22

. If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.

Thank you!

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[mathieu stumpf guntz]

Saluton,

Can we actually have a link to a page with a concrete example so we can 
judge this factually?


Vikiame

Le 28/02/2018 à 20:43, Asaf Bartov a écrit :

Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority of
Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some kind
of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
general.

As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.

Cheers,

Asaf

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales 
wrote:


Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.



On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:

I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because

it

same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
website.

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian

2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :


IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global

policy.

James

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <

minatahats...@gmail.com>

wrote:


Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia

communities

put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main

Page

or

Sitenotice?

I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,

Arabic

Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of

Facebook

as verified.

All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link

as

"official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects

can

do

that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
promotion to Facebook at <
https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22

. If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.

Thank you!

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Dariusz Jemielniak]

My personal preference is to NOT link to Facebook. I think they use the
energy of people enough already.

However, I also think it is up to local communities to decide what works
for them best, there is no "one size fits all" here, IMHO

best,

DJ "pundit"

On Feb 28, 2018 20:06, "Jimmy Wales"  wrote:

Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.



On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because it
> same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> website.
>
> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>
> 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :
>
>> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
policy.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
communities
>>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page
>> or
>>> Sitenotice?
>>>
>>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
>> Arabic
>>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
>> Facebook
>>> as verified.
>>>
>>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link
as
>>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
>>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can
>> do
>>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
>>> promotion to Facebook at <
>>> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
>>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
>>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
 . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Heilman
>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Asaf Bartov]

Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority of
Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some kind
of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
general.

As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.

Cheers,

   Asaf

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales 
wrote:

> Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
> any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
> should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
> especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
> take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
>
>
>
> On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> > I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> > consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because
> it
> > same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> > website.
> >
> > Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > Vietnamese Wikimedian
> >
> > 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :
> >
> >> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
> policy.
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
> minatahats...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
> communities
> >>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
> Page
> >> or
> >>> Sitenotice?
> >>>
> >>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
> >> Arabic
> >>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
> >> Facebook
> >>> as verified.
> >>>
> >>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link
> as
> >>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
> >>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects
> can
> >> do
> >>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> >>> promotion to Facebook at <
> >>> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> >>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> >>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
>  . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you!
> >>>
> >>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> >>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> >>> ___
> >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>> 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> James Heilman
> >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> 
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> 
> >
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Jimmy Wales]

Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.



On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because it
> same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> website.
> 
> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> 
> 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :
> 
>> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global policy.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia communities
>>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page
>> or
>>> Sitenotice?
>>>
>>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
>> Arabic
>>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
>> Facebook
>>> as verified.
>>>
>>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link as
>>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
>>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can
>> do
>>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
>>> promotion to Facebook at <
>>> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
>>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
>>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
 . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

[Jean-Philippe Béland]

The Wikimedia movement is more than encyclopedias... We already have
Wikiversity for teaching, no? Are efforts to contribute to Wikiversity and
other sister projects making us lose focus? I'm not sure to understand what
you are saying.

JP

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 2:32 AM Amir E. Aharoni <
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:

> 2018-02-28 1:25 GMT+02:00 James Salsman :
>
> > > I was not trying to say that everybody
> > > should learn English. The point I was
> > > trying to make there is that knowing
> > > English is a privilege and that it is easy
> > > to not notice it.
> >
> > I agree with that, too. How is teaching language different relative to
> > the Foundation Mission than teaching subjects of encyclopedia
> > articles?
> >
> >
> We are not *teaching* encyclopedia articles. We are making it possible to
> write them and to read them. It is not the same thing as teaching subjects.
>
> Should we do teaching? Maybe, but since it's different from making it
> possible to write and read, I'm afraid it would be losing focus.
>
> Is there anything bad about teaching languages? Of course not. It's great.
> I'm just not sure that it's the right thing for Wikimedia to do, when
> Wikimedia should be busy getting even better at its main thing: wiki
> articles.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Minata Hatsune]

I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because it
same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
website.

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian

2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :

> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global policy.
>
> James
>
> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia communities
> > put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page
> or
> > Sitenotice?
> >
> > I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
> Arabic
> > Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
> Facebook
> > as verified.
> >
> > All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link as
> > "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
> > violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can
> do
> > that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> > promotion to Facebook at <
> > https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> > BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> > ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> > >. If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > ___
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>
>
>
>
> --
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> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

[mathieu stumpf guntz]

Le 27/02/2018 à 18:51, Jean-Philippe Béland a écrit :

Amir,

I agree with everything you said, especially that languages are knowledge
in themselves, but I must say that Wikimedia is not doing much in an effort
to teach languages to people. Why isn't there more effort at the WMF or as
a movement to try to develop a platform to teach languages?
I totaly support this idea. Right now there are a lot of digital 
solutions to learn new languages, but I'm not aware of any which is 
doing it with free knowledge activism in mind.


I think we could even make some programs like "start to learn, try to 
translate some existing free material selected according to your current 
level, get feedback from someone who master the language" pipeline.




Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President and Programs Coordinator, Wikimedia Canada
Coordinator, Wikimedians of North American Indigenous Languages User Group
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[James Heilman]

IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global policy.

James

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune 
wrote:

> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia communities
> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page or
> Sitenotice?
>
> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia, Arabic
> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of Facebook
> as verified.
>
> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link as
> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can do
> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> promotion to Facebook at <
> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> >. If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> Vietnamese Wikimedian
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