[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

All these discussions are interesting, but worthless. Because... we are 
obsolete, our money room will be larger soon, but there's no plan to go beyond 
3-4 wishlist ideas every year.

And that's the drama.

From: Bence Damokos 
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 6:53 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

Still, consider that if the spoken  feature is exposed to all users, it would 
raise awareness to more people when articles are not well formated for screen 
readers… And screen readers are not available in all languages, so the effort 
put into the speech synthesizer in new languages could benefit a wider userbase.

Best regards,
Bence

Le mer. 27 oct. 2021 à 16:18, Andy Mabbett 
mailto:a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>> a écrit :
On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 at 13:59, Andreas Kolbe 
mailto:jayen...@gmail.com>> wrote:

>> > Not sure that duplicating the work of a range of screen readers is the
>> > best use of our resources.
>>
>> I agree; such functionality belongs in the user client (screen reader,
>> browser, whatever), not in the subject website.
>
> an excerpt from the marketing text

As a professional web manager (1994-2011), I had companies trying to
sell me such services regularly. And why wouldn't they, given the
number of websites they could sell it to, over, and over, and over,
again?

Equally consistently, people who /needed/ such assistance told us they
wanted it in the client, not the website; and that all they required
of the websites was to be web-standards-complaint (by which they meant
WCAG[1]).


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Content_Accessibility_Guidelines

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Bence Damokos]

Still, consider that if the spoken  feature is exposed to all users, it
would raise awareness to more people when articles are not well formated
for screen readers… And screen readers are not available in all languages,
so the effort put into the speech synthesizer in new languages could
benefit a wider userbase.

Best regards,
Bence

Le mer. 27 oct. 2021 à 16:18, Andy Mabbett  a
écrit :

> On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 at 13:59, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
>
> >> > Not sure that duplicating the work of a range of screen readers is the
> >> > best use of our resources.
> >>
> >> I agree; such functionality belongs in the user client (screen reader,
> >> browser, whatever), not in the subject website.
> >
> > an excerpt from the marketing text
>
> As a professional web manager (1994-2011), I had companies trying to
> sell me such services regularly. And why wouldn't they, given the
> number of websites they could sell it to, over, and over, and over,
> again?
>
> Equally consistently, people who /needed/ such assistance told us they
> wanted it in the client, not the website; and that all they required
> of the websites was to be web-standards-complaint (by which they meant
> WCAG[1]).
>
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Content_Accessibility_Guidelines
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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>
-- 
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Bodhisattwa Mandal]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 at 14:39, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Have a modern look
>
> That would be the mobile site.
>
> Well, yes. Now look at Wikisource in your mobile or to Wikipedia in your
> desktip
>

Hopefully this will end soon for Wikisource to some extent. There is an
ongoing initiative by a few Indian Wikimedians to develop a Wikisource
mobile app for Android users. Here is the announcement

few days back.

Coming from the Wikisource project, which is built almost entirely by
volunteers and which still doesn't have a dedicated staff structure in WMF
for its development and progress, I agree with what Galder said. There are
few developments by Community Tech in recent years in some aspects of the
project, but it is also true that many of our bugs or feature requests are
there on Phabricator for five or six or more years for now. We still use
complex templates to proofread which drives new users away; Visual editor
still isn't equipped enough to support proofreading easily. For book
readers, the Wikisource interface is totally outdated and unattractive
compared to contemporary technologies. We still couldn't build an ecosystem
with other platforms to train and improve our OCR or to recognize
hand-written texts and old prints for many languages. Some languages still
don't have OCR support even now and depend on manual proofreading by typing
page by page, imagine how that can be for a book with hundreds or thousands
of pages. We still can't transcribe non-Western musical notation. The list
can go on. Like other sister projects which were historically neglected,
our community also tried to build from scratch and adapt and evolve as best
as they could but it would be totally unfair to expect them to find free
time to solve all problems themselves. Systemic and sustained support is
badly needed to advance our technology and that is true.

Regards,
Bodhisattwa
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Andy Mabbett]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 at 13:59, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:

>> > Not sure that duplicating the work of a range of screen readers is the
>> > best use of our resources.
>>
>> I agree; such functionality belongs in the user client (screen reader,
>> browser, whatever), not in the subject website.
>
> an excerpt from the marketing text

As a professional web manager (1994-2011), I had companies trying to
sell me such services regularly. And why wouldn't they, given the
number of websites they could sell it to, over, and over, and over,
again?

Equally consistently, people who /needed/ such assistance told us they
wanted it in the client, not the website; and that all they required
of the websites was to be web-standards-complaint (by which they meant
WCAG[1]).


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Content_Accessibility_Guidelines

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Andreas Kolbe]

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 12:19 PM Andy Mabbett 
wrote:

> > > Hear the articles
> >
> > Not sure that duplicating the work of a range of screen readers is the
> > best use of our resources.
>
> I agree; such functionality belongs in the user client (screen reader,
> browser, whatever), not in the subject website.
>

Then again, even some newspapers, like Haaretz and the New York Times,
nowadays give you a "Listen to this article" option on their sites, and it
is, frankly, nice to have sometimes.

Haaretz uses Trinity Audio. This is an excerpt from the marketing text on
Trinity Audio's website:


*A publisher that isn’t excited or scared, is asleep at the wheel.*


*We’re living in exciting times of an exponential audio technology
revolution. Remember how not long ago people didn’t have mobile phones? Or
internet? In the blink of an eye it’s become impossible to imagine life
before the eruption of such technologies.  The rate of change is growing so
fast that in a matter of months it’ll be inconceivable for publishers to
offer an experience of reading alone. Just as offering print only solutions
is a thing of the past.*

Obviously, this is a self-serving marketing effort, but there's no question
that perceptions of what is the "normal" way of delivering or consuming
text is rapidly changing. YouTube now offers automatic
subtitling/transcript generation, for example. Machine translation is
becoming better and better and ever more commonplace. And we all know that
many times when a user comes across Wikipedia content, it is delivered by a
voice assistant in audio format.

The New York Times, meanwhile, has "a new app for audio journalism and
storytelling" in beta ...

https://www.nytimes.com/marketing/audio/beta?channel=oaudio

Andreas
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Andy Mabbett]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 at 09:57, geni  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 16:38, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
>  wrote:

> > Create visually interesting cartography
>
> I think open street map got there first.

No; OSM supply data, in order that reusers such as WMF projects can
create their own "visually interesting" map tiles. See, for example:

   https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T289101

> > Hear the articles
>
> Not sure that duplicating the work of a range of screen readers is the
> best use of our resources.

I agree; such functionality belongs in the user client (screen reader,
browser, whatever), not in the subject website.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

2021(e)ko urr. 27(a) 10:57 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (geni ):On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 16:38, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga

 wrote:

> Upload MP4 files



Try Handbrake.No, I want to use Commons. I don't need external software to upload texts or images.



> Have a modern look



That would be the mobile site.Well, yes. Now look at Wikisource in your mobile or to Wikipedia in your desktip



> Create visually interesting cartography



I think open street map got there first.And we still use maps in our Encyclopedia. 



> Hear the articles



Not sure that duplicating the work of a range of screen readers is the

best use of our resources.We want to give knowledge to everyone in the world. Also those without screen readers or whose languages are not currently supported.
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[geni]

On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 16:38, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
 wrote:
> Upload MP4 files

Try Handbrake.

> Have a modern look

That would be the mobile site.

> Create visually interesting cartography

I think open street map got there first.

> Hear the articles

Not sure that duplicating the work of a range of screen readers is the
best use of our resources.
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Asaf Bartov]

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 11:56 PM Todd Allen  wrote:

> That "strategy" crap is from WMF, not the communities, and matters not one
> bit.
>

You will not refer to hundreds of other people's hard work as "crap" on
this list, Todd.  You have been placed on moderation.  You are welcome to
continue contributing to the list, including -- I stress this -- expressing
criticism of the Strategy and of the Wikimedia Foundation -- but only if
you manage to do it in a civil and respectful tone.

On behalf of the list admins,

Asaf
   (volunteer capacity)
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Todd Allen]

That "strategy" crap is from WMF, not the communities, and matters not one
bit.

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 2:33 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Mmm... let's read again our Strategic direction...
>
> *By 2030, Wikimedia will become the essential infrastructure of the
> ecosystem of free knowledge, and anyone who shares our vision will be able
> to join us.*
>
> We, the Wikimedia contributors, communities, and organizations, will
> advance our world by collecting knowledge that fully represents human
> diversity, and by building the services and structures that enable others
> to do the same.
>
> We will carry on our mission of developing content as we have done in the
> past, and we will go further.
>
> Yes, having a physics simulation, a calculator, showing how the satellites
> of Jupiter are arranged now... are, by definition, part or the "ecosystem
> of free knowledge" in the same way images are. We currently add images to
> Commons and we don't say: you have a link here if you want to see that
> image. We also add texts and we don't say "just read a book, lol". Having
> rich media is part of the ecosystem of free knowledge, and we should be
> "building the services and structures" to share it. We also should be
> developing content "further". Is not that I think we should do that: is
> that we have decided to do that.
>
> Also, the Medium Term Plan, that is currently active, says about "Platform
> evolution" this
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Medium-term_plan_2019/Platform_evolution
> 🙂
>
> "support for the integration and discoverability of rich content including
> video, audio, and interactive media, as well as the infrastructure to serve
> it with high performance, high redundancy, and low latency to all parts of
> the world."
>
> So yes, it should be part of the plan, and currently there's no way to
> achieve it.
>
> Best,
>
> Galder
> --
> *From:* Todd Allen 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 26, 2021 10:14 PM
> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List 
> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia
> Enterprise
>
> You put in a URL that links to one. And there, you're done.
>
> Having a "howto" gadget like that is not the purpose of an article. The
> purpose of an article is to describe, not have a "simulator". A URL to one
> on some other site in the external links section might be quite in
> order, but that is out of scope for Wikipedia itself.
>
> We should never try to be everything to everyone. We have a clear and
> defined scope, and we should stick to it.
>
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 11:57 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
> galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or
> even particularly hard. "
>
> I don't assume it, just we can't do it:
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T169027 or
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T238259
>
>
> If you know a way to do this kind of interactive content in any given
> wiki, we could go forward fast.
> --
> *From:* Strainu 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 26, 2021 7:45 PM
> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List 
> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia
> Enterprise
>
>
>
> Pe marți, 26 octombrie 2021, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
> galder...@hotmail.com> a scris:
> > Anders: we can't add a physics simulator.
>
> We totally can. It takes programming knowledge and a technical
> administrator, but it's possible.
>
> Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or
> even particularly hard. What's nearly impossible is to scale such
> initiatives in a meaningful manner (I.e. over 250+ languages).
>
> Strainu
>
> (https://www.physicsclassroom.com/Physics-Interactives/Newtons-Laws).
> This is not "info wars", this is being useful. And we can't do it
> because... well, because we are... obsolete.
> >
> > 
> > From: Anders Wennersten 
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 6:02 PM
> > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
> > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia
> Enterprise
> >
> >
> > We have an army of volunteers to guarantee correctness and that issues
> of controversies are dealt with in a way that hopefully all parties can
> accept
> >
> > we have no cookies or technical things that make us follow up on our
> editors, trul

[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Mmm... let's read again our Strategic direction...


By 2030, Wikimedia will become the essential infrastructure of the ecosystem of 
free knowledge, and anyone who shares our vision will be able to join us.

We, the Wikimedia contributors, communities, and organizations, will advance 
our world by collecting knowledge that fully represents human diversity, and by 
building the services and structures that enable others to do the same.

We will carry on our mission of developing content as we have done in the past, 
and we will go further.

Yes, having a physics simulation, a calculator, showing how the satellites of 
Jupiter are arranged now... are, by definition, part or the "ecosystem of free 
knowledge" in the same way images are. We currently add images to Commons and 
we don't say: you have a link here if you want to see that image. We also add 
texts and we don't say "just read a book, lol". Having rich media is part of 
the ecosystem of free knowledge, and we should be "building the services and 
structures" to share it. We also should be developing content "further". Is not 
that I think we should do that: is that we have decided to do that.

Also, the Medium Term Plan, that is currently active, says about "Platform 
evolution" this 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Medium-term_plan_2019/Platform_evolution🙂

"support for the integration and discoverability of rich content including 
video, audio, and interactive media, as well as the infrastructure to serve it 
with high performance, high redundancy, and low latency to all parts of the 
world."

So yes, it should be part of the plan, and currently there's no way to achieve 
it.

Best,

Galder

From: Todd Allen 
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 10:14 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

You put in a URL that links to one. And there, you're done.

Having a "howto" gadget like that is not the purpose of an article. The purpose 
of an article is to describe, not have a "simulator". A URL to one on some 
other site in the external links section might be quite in order, but that is 
out of scope for Wikipedia itself.

We should never try to be everything to everyone. We have a clear and defined 
scope, and we should stick to it.

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 11:57 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
"Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or even 
particularly hard. "

I don't assume it, just we can't do it: 
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T169027 or 
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T238259


If you know a way to do this kind of interactive content in any given wiki, we 
could go forward fast.

From: Strainu mailto:strain...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 7:45 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise



Pe marți, 26 octombrie 2021, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> a scris:
> Anders: we can't add a physics simulator.

We totally can. It takes programming knowledge and a technical administrator, 
but it's possible.

Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or even 
particularly hard. What's nearly impossible is to scale such initiatives in a 
meaningful manner (I.e. over 250+ languages).

Strainu

(https://www.physicsclassroom.com/Physics-Interactives/Newtons-Laws). This is 
not "info wars", this is being useful. And we can't do it because... well, 
because we are... obsolete.
>
> 
> From: Anders Wennersten 
> mailto:m...@anderswennersten.se>>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 6:02 PM
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> 
> mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise
>
>
> We have an army of volunteers to guarantee correctness and that issues of 
> controversies are dealt with in a way that hopefully all parties can accept
>
> we have no cookies or technical things that make us follow up on our editors, 
> truly believing in the full integrity of our users
>
> our financial and governing set up is fully independent of an third party
>
> Our reading interface works well for our users and on most platforms (which 
> is made easier with no technical smarties)
>
> Our interface can be made better for editors, but this does not make it as a 
> phenomenon obsolete
>
> In the info war we are in, it is beer to be on the "bor

[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Todd Allen]

You put in a URL that links to one. And there, you're done.

Having a "howto" gadget like that is not the purpose of an article. The
purpose of an article is to describe, not have a "simulator". A URL to one
on some other site in the external links section might be quite in
order, but that is out of scope for Wikipedia itself.

We should never try to be everything to everyone. We have a clear and
defined scope, and we should stick to it.

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 11:57 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or
> even particularly hard. "
>
> I don't assume it, just we can't do it:
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T169027 or
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T238259
>
>
> If you know a way to do this kind of interactive content in any given
> wiki, we could go forward fast.
> --
> *From:* Strainu 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 26, 2021 7:45 PM
> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List 
> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia
> Enterprise
>
>
>
> Pe marți, 26 octombrie 2021, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
> galder...@hotmail.com> a scris:
> > Anders: we can't add a physics simulator.
>
> We totally can. It takes programming knowledge and a technical
> administrator, but it's possible.
>
> Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or
> even particularly hard. What's nearly impossible is to scale such
> initiatives in a meaningful manner (I.e. over 250+ languages).
>
> Strainu
>
> (https://www.physicsclassroom.com/Physics-Interactives/Newtons-Laws).
> This is not "info wars", this is being useful. And we can't do it
> because... well, because we are... obsolete.
> >
> > 
> > From: Anders Wennersten 
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 6:02 PM
> > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
> > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia
> Enterprise
> >
> >
> > We have an army of volunteers to guarantee correctness and that issues
> of controversies are dealt with in a way that hopefully all parties can
> accept
> >
> > we have no cookies or technical things that make us follow up on our
> editors, truly believing in the full integrity of our users
> >
> > our financial and governing set up is fully independent of an third party
> >
> > Our reading interface works well for our users and on most platforms
> (which is made easier with no technical smarties)
> >
> > Our interface can be made better for editors, but this does not make it
> as a phenomenon obsolete
> >
> > In the info war we are in, it is beer to be on the "boring" side with
> few or none smart gadgets then being too smart and open for foul play by
> parties that want to undermine our system by clever hackers
> >
> > Anders
> >
> > Den 2021-10-26 kl. 17:37, skrev Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga:
> >
> > Thanks Anders,
> > "We are the opposite to obsolete" is a good sentence, because this would
> imply that our platform is the bow of an icebreaker. But we still, in 2021,
> can't do this things (you can help by expanding this list):
> >
> > Simultaneous edition
> > Auto-save in sandbox
> > Publishing from sandbox
> > Upload MP4 files
> > Render correctly vectorial files
> > Embed our own Wikidata query results in our own projects
> > Have a modern look
> > Have cross-project templates and modules
> > Visual edit from mobile
> > Create visually interesting cartography
> > Hear the articles
> > Export multiple articles as a pdf/doc (whatever)
> > ...
> > 
> >
> > Someone will answer to this message talking about the "Wishlist survey"
> every year we have. This scarcity generating system also gives funny
> outcomes. Let's take the 2019 survey. 10 projects were voted. Only 4 done:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2019/Results.
> Or the 2017 one:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2017/Results.
> Some projects where done, some not and there are some that are external
> tools that you have to use as a gadget.
> >
> > Students are relying on YouTube to learn things. We are obsolete. Very
> obsolete.
> > Galder
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: Anders Wennersten 
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:23 PM
> > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
> &

[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

"Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or even 
particularly hard. "

I don't assume it, just we can't do it: 
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T169027 or 
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T238259


If you know a way to do this kind of interactive content in any given wiki, we 
could go forward fast.

From: Strainu 
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 7:45 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise



Pe marți, 26 octombrie 2021, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> a scris:
> Anders: we can't add a physics simulator.

We totally can. It takes programming knowledge and a technical administrator, 
but it's possible.

Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or even 
particularly hard. What's nearly impossible is to scale such initiatives in a 
meaningful manner (I.e. over 250+ languages).

Strainu

(https://www.physicsclassroom.com/Physics-Interactives/Newtons-Laws). This is 
not "info wars", this is being useful. And we can't do it because... well, 
because we are... obsolete.
>
> 
> From: Anders Wennersten 
> mailto:m...@anderswennersten.se>>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 6:02 PM
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> 
> mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise
>
>
> We have an army of volunteers to guarantee correctness and that issues of 
> controversies are dealt with in a way that hopefully all parties can accept
>
> we have no cookies or technical things that make us follow up on our editors, 
> truly believing in the full integrity of our users
>
> our financial and governing set up is fully independent of an third party
>
> Our reading interface works well for our users and on most platforms (which 
> is made easier with no technical smarties)
>
> Our interface can be made better for editors, but this does not make it as a 
> phenomenon obsolete
>
> In the info war we are in, it is beer to be on the "boring" side with few or 
> none smart gadgets then being too smart and open for foul play by parties 
> that want to undermine our system by clever hackers
>
> Anders
>
> Den 2021-10-26 kl. 17:37, skrev Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga:
>
> Thanks Anders,
> "We are the opposite to obsolete" is a good sentence, because this would 
> imply that our platform is the bow of an icebreaker. But we still, in 2021, 
> can't do this things (you can help by expanding this list):
>
> Simultaneous edition
> Auto-save in sandbox
> Publishing from sandbox
> Upload MP4 files
> Render correctly vectorial files
> Embed our own Wikidata query results in our own projects
> Have a modern look
> Have cross-project templates and modules
> Visual edit from mobile
> Create visually interesting cartography
> Hear the articles
> Export multiple articles as a pdf/doc (whatever)
> ...
> 
>
> Someone will answer to this message talking about the "Wishlist survey" every 
> year we have. This scarcity generating system also gives funny outcomes. 
> Let's take the 2019 survey. 10 projects were voted. Only 4 done: 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2019/Results. Or 
> the 2017 one: 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2017/Results. Some 
> projects where done, some not and there are some that are external tools that 
> you have to use as a gadget.
>
> Students are relying on YouTube to learn things. We are obsolete. Very 
> obsolete.
> Galder
>
>
> 
> From: Anders Wennersten 
> mailto:m...@anderswennersten.se>>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:23 PM
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> 
> mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise
>
> "We will have more and more and more millions, but we will still...
> yes... obsolete." Galder
>
>
> What phenomenon do you see challenge Wikipedias role as a source for
> common knowledge, an encyklopedia for everyone?
>
> I see that for the last 20 years no successful commercial encyclopedia
> has been launched.
>
> I see how the social media have a hard time to be a platform for common
> knowledge and hard pressed to employ armies of moderators. And Google
> very happy to lean and steal from Wikipedia rather the do something
> similar themself (w

[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Strainu]

Pe marți, 26 octombrie 2021, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
galder...@hotmail.com> a scris:
> Anders: we can't add a physics simulator.

We totally can. It takes programming knowledge and a technical
administrator, but it's possible.

Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or
even particularly hard. What's nearly impossible is to scale such
initiatives in a meaningful manner (I.e. over 250+ languages).

Strainu

(https://www.physicsclassroom.com/Physics-Interactives/Newtons-Laws). This
is not "info wars", this is being useful. And we can't do it because...
well, because we are... obsolete.
>
> 
> From: Anders Wennersten 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 6:02 PM
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia
Enterprise
>
>
> We have an army of volunteers to guarantee correctness and that issues of
controversies are dealt with in a way that hopefully all parties can accept
>
> we have no cookies or technical things that make us follow up on our
editors, truly believing in the full integrity of our users
>
> our financial and governing set up is fully independent of an third party
>
> Our reading interface works well for our users and on most platforms
(which is made easier with no technical smarties)
>
> Our interface can be made better for editors, but this does not make it
as a phenomenon obsolete
>
> In the info war we are in, it is beer to be on the "boring" side with few
or none smart gadgets then being too smart and open for foul play by
parties that want to undermine our system by clever hackers
>
> Anders
>
> Den 2021-10-26 kl. 17:37, skrev Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga:
>
> Thanks Anders,
> "We are the opposite to obsolete" is a good sentence, because this would
imply that our platform is the bow of an icebreaker. But we still, in 2021,
can't do this things (you can help by expanding this list):
>
> Simultaneous edition
> Auto-save in sandbox
> Publishing from sandbox
> Upload MP4 files
> Render correctly vectorial files
> Embed our own Wikidata query results in our own projects
> Have a modern look
> Have cross-project templates and modules
> Visual edit from mobile
> Create visually interesting cartography
> Hear the articles
> Export multiple articles as a pdf/doc (whatever)
> ...
> 
>
> Someone will answer to this message talking about the "Wishlist survey"
every year we have. This scarcity generating system also gives funny
outcomes. Let's take the 2019 survey. 10 projects were voted. Only 4 done:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2019/Results. Or
the 2017 one:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2017/Results.
Some projects where done, some not and there are some that are external
tools that you have to use as a gadget.
>
> Students are relying on YouTube to learn things. We are obsolete. Very
obsolete.
> Galder
>
>
> 
> From: Anders Wennersten 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:23 PM
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia
Enterprise
>
> "We will have more and more and more millions, but we will still...
> yes... obsolete." Galder
>
>
> What phenomenon do you see challenge Wikipedias role as a source for
> common knowledge, an encyklopedia for everyone?
>
> I see that for the last 20 years no successful commercial encyclopedia
> has been launched.
>
> I see how the social media have a hard time to be a platform for common
> knowledge and hard pressed to employ armies of moderators. And Google
> very happy to lean and steal from Wikipedia rather the do something
> similar themself (which would go down badly in the public)
>
> But the war of information is a reality and heating up. We can be very
> glad that so far we have not been a target of all angriness of what is
> to be seen as the "correct" information. But that could change, what if
> a new administration in US want to control what is written in Wikipedia.
> Or China want to set up a parallel in English as the have now in
> Chinese. If these thing happen we need to have resources to fight off
> these type a of challenges, not only for our own sake but for he people
> in the world who is used to turn to Wikipedia for basic facts.
>
> We are the opposite to obsolete, we are in the front seat and driving
> for correct facts in the emerging information war we now see
>
> Anders
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
at: https://meta.

[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Anders: we can't add a physics simulator. 
(https://www.physicsclassroom.com/Physics-Interactives/Newtons-Laws). This is 
not "info wars", this is being useful. And we can't do it because... well, 
because we are... obsolete.


From: Anders Wennersten 
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 6:02 PM
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise


We have an army of volunteers to guarantee correctness and that issues of 
controversies are dealt with in a way that hopefully all parties can accept


we have no cookies or technical things that make us follow up on our editors, 
truly believing in the full integrity of our users


our financial and governing set up is fully independent of an third party


Our reading interface works well for our users and on most platforms (which is 
made easier with no technical smarties)


Our interface can be made better for editors, but this does not make it as a 
phenomenon obsolete


In the info war we are in, it is beer to be on the "boring" side with few or 
none smart gadgets then being too smart and open for foul play by parties that 
want to undermine our system by clever hackers


Anders


Den 2021-10-26 kl. 17:37, skrev Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga:
Thanks Anders,
"We are the opposite to obsolete" is a good sentence, because this would imply 
that our platform is the bow of an icebreaker. But we still, in 2021, can't do 
this things (you can help by expanding this list):

  *   Simultaneous edition
  *   Auto-save in sandbox
  *   Publishing from sandbox
  *   Upload MP4 files
  *   Render correctly vectorial files
  *   Embed our own Wikidata query results in our own projects
  *   Have a modern look
  *   Have cross-project templates and modules
  *   Visual edit from mobile
  *   Create visually interesting cartography
  *   Hear the articles
  *   Export multiple articles as a pdf/doc (whatever)
  *   ...
  *   

Someone will answer to this message talking about the "Wishlist survey" every 
year we have. This scarcity generating system also gives funny outcomes. Let's 
take the 2019 survey. 10 projects were voted. Only 4 done: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2019/Results. Or the 
2017 one: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2017/Results. Some 
projects where done, some not and there are some that are external tools that 
you have to use as a gadget.

Students are relying on YouTube to learn things. We are obsolete. Very obsolete.

Galder



From: Anders Wennersten 
<mailto:m...@anderswennersten.se>
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:23 PM
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> 
<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

"We will have more and more and more millions, but we will still...
yes... obsolete." Galder


What phenomenon do you see challenge Wikipedias role as a source for
common knowledge, an encyklopedia for everyone?

I see that for the last 20 years no successful commercial encyclopedia
has been launched.

I see how the social media have a hard time to be a platform for common
knowledge and hard pressed to employ armies of moderators. And Google
very happy to lean and steal from Wikipedia rather the do something
similar themself (which would go down badly in the public)

But the war of information is a reality and heating up. We can be very
glad that so far we have not been a target of all angriness of what is
to be seen as the "correct" information. But that could change, what if
a new administration in US want to control what is written in Wikipedia.
Or China want to set up a parallel in English as the have now in
Chinese. If these thing happen we need to have resources to fight off
these type a of challenges, not only for our own sake but for he people
in the world who is used to turn to Wikipedia for basic facts.

We are the opposite to obsolete, we are in the front seat and driving
for correct facts in the emerging information war we now see

Anders
___
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guidelines at: https://

[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Francesc Fort]

I find interesting what Anders and Galder said. I believe that Galder's
complaint (which I agree with) is not incompatible with Anders observation.

We can be both obsolete (technology) but yet relevant to society.

F.

Missatge de Liam Wyatt  del dia dt., 26 d’oct. 2021 a
les 17:44:

> Yes the website , and press release
> ,
> were "launched" yesterday.
> Yes, notification was given on this mailing list
> 
>  two
> weeks ago, as well as several others - including wikitech-l, affiliates-l.
> That message included various new pieces of documentation (including Board
> statement relating to revenue principles, methods of free-access to the
> service for community, forthcoming public 'office hours' meetings).
> Moreover, it also included notification of this impending launch.
>
> - Liam
>
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 17:35, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
>
>> The Wikimedia Enterprise site surely is up:
>> https://enterprise.wikimedia.com/pricing/
>>
>> Did I miss an announcement here on this mailing list?
>>
>> At least there was a WMF blog post:
>> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2021/10/25/wikimedia-foundation-launches-wikimedia-enterprise-the-new-opt-in-product-for-companies-and-organizations-to-easily-reuse-content-from-wikipedia-and-wikimedia-projects/
>>
>> Anders: The best thing that could happen to Wikipedia would be to have a
>> competitor. Think about it for a moment, for God's sake.
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 3:55 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
>> galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear wikimedians,
>>> Some years ago, I visited Uzbekistan. I was shocked and amused to find
>>> that the largest paper note was 2.000 soʻm at that time, with a plan to
>>> start with the 5.000 paper note soon. The most used one still was the 1.000
>>> soʻm note, that was about 35 US cents in the bank and about 20 US cents in
>>> the street markets. So, the first time we changed two 100 USD$ paper notes
>>> into soʻm we got around 800 paper notes in bunches of 100. It was quite
>>> interesting to note that people in the street went with black plastic bags
>>> full of money in order to buy at the market or get a taxi ride. Some days
>>> later, I talked to a local taxi driver and he told me that when he bought
>>> his car, he needed a small truck to carry all the paper notes to the car
>>> selling store. Of course, I took that as a joke. Then another man said that
>>> many houses have a room only for storing money, so you can buy a larger
>>> house in the future. I don't know if this was a practical joke, but that's
>>> how it was.
>>>
>>> Yesterday we launched Wikimedia Enterprise. This e-mail is not to show
>>> my disagreement with the idea itself, but with the outcome. It seems that
>>> the purpose of Wikimedia Entrerprise is to have a large money revenue
>>> offering volunteer's time and content to the rich who are willing to pay
>>> for a better API. Believe it or not, I like to tax the rich.
>>>
>>> We have millions of dollars in our money room, and, if everything goes
>>> as planned with Wikimedia Enterprise, we will soon need to buy a new house
>>> to have a larger room to store all those cheques, notes and assets. The
>>> room will soon look huge and plenty of money. Still, there's no plan to
>>> paint the house, arrange the sofa, solve the water leakage we have in the
>>> toilet, mow the lawn or buy a new set of pans so we can cook healthy food
>>> there. Soon, the cow will start aging and won't have more milk to sell. But
>>> yes, the money room will be huge. We will have more and more and more
>>> millions, but we will still... yes... obsolete.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Galder
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
>>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> Public archives at
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/HZALAV3GIRPIHJIHRD4JGMGEKBBF6VGQ/
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> Public archives at
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>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> ___

[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Anders Wennersten]

We have an army of volunteers to guarantee correctness and that issues 
of controversies are dealt with in a way that hopefully all parties can 
accept



we have no cookies or technical things that make us follow up on our 
editors, truly believing in the full integrity of our users



our financial and governing set up is fully independent of an third party


Our reading interface works well for our users and on most platforms 
(which is made easier with no technical smarties)



Our interface can be made better for editors, but this does not make it 
as a phenomenon obsolete



In the info war we are in, it is beer to be on the "boring" side with 
few or none smart gadgets then being too smart and open for foul play by 
parties that want to undermine our system by clever hackers



Anders


Den 2021-10-26 kl. 17:37, skrev Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga:

Thanks Anders,
"We are the opposite to obsolete" is a good sentence, because this 
would imply that our platform is the bow of an icebreaker. But we 
still, in 2021, can't do this things (you can help by expanding this 
list):


  * Simultaneous edition
  * Auto-save in sandbox
  * Publishing from sandbox
  * Upload MP4 files
  * Render correctly vectorial files
  * Embed our own Wikidata query results in our own projects
  * Have a modern look
  * Have cross-project templates and modules
  * Visual edit from mobile
  * Create visually interesting cartography
  * Hear the articles
  * Export multiple articles as a pdf/doc (whatever)
  * ...
  * 

Someone will answer to this message talking about the "Wishlist 
survey" every year we have. This scarcity generating system also gives 
funny outcomes. Let's take the 2019 survey. 10 projects were voted. 
Only 4 done: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2019/Results 
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2019/Results>. 
Or the 2017 one: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2017/Results 
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2017/Results>. 
Some projects where done, some not and there are some that are 
external tools that you have to use as a gadget.


Students are relying on YouTube to learn things. We are obsolete. Very 
obsolete.


Galder



*From:* Anders Wennersten 
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:23 PM
*To:* wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
*Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia 
Enterprise

"We will have more and more and more millions, but we will still...
yes... obsolete." Galder


What phenomenon do you see challenge Wikipedias role as a source for
common knowledge, an encyklopedia for everyone?

I see that for the last 20 years no successful commercial encyclopedia
has been launched.

I see how the social media have a hard time to be a platform for common
knowledge and hard pressed to employ armies of moderators. And Google
very happy to lean and steal from Wikipedia rather the do something
similar themself (which would go down badly in the public)

But the war of information is a reality and heating up. We can be very
glad that so far we have not been a target of all angriness of what is
to be seen as the "correct" information. But that could change, what if
a new administration in US want to control what is written in Wikipedia.
Or China want to set up a parallel in English as the have now in
Chinese. If these thing happen we need to have resources to fight off
these type a of challenges, not only for our own sake but for he people
in the world who is used to turn to Wikipedia for basic facts.

We are the opposite to obsolete, we are in the front seat and driving
for correct facts in the emerging information war we now see

Anders
___
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guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines 
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and 
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Liam Wyatt]

Yes the website , and press release
,
were "launched" yesterday.
Yes, notification was given on this mailing list

two
weeks ago, as well as several others - including wikitech-l, affiliates-l.
That message included various new pieces of documentation (including Board
statement relating to revenue principles, methods of free-access to the
service for community, forthcoming public 'office hours' meetings).
Moreover, it also included notification of this impending launch.

- Liam

On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 17:35, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:

> The Wikimedia Enterprise site surely is up:
> https://enterprise.wikimedia.com/pricing/
>
> Did I miss an announcement here on this mailing list?
>
> At least there was a WMF blog post:
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2021/10/25/wikimedia-foundation-launches-wikimedia-enterprise-the-new-opt-in-product-for-companies-and-organizations-to-easily-reuse-content-from-wikipedia-and-wikimedia-projects/
>
> Anders: The best thing that could happen to Wikipedia would be to have a
> competitor. Think about it for a moment, for God's sake.
>
> Andreas
>
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 3:55 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
> galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear wikimedians,
>> Some years ago, I visited Uzbekistan. I was shocked and amused to find
>> that the largest paper note was 2.000 soʻm at that time, with a plan to
>> start with the 5.000 paper note soon. The most used one still was the 1.000
>> soʻm note, that was about 35 US cents in the bank and about 20 US cents in
>> the street markets. So, the first time we changed two 100 USD$ paper notes
>> into soʻm we got around 800 paper notes in bunches of 100. It was quite
>> interesting to note that people in the street went with black plastic bags
>> full of money in order to buy at the market or get a taxi ride. Some days
>> later, I talked to a local taxi driver and he told me that when he bought
>> his car, he needed a small truck to carry all the paper notes to the car
>> selling store. Of course, I took that as a joke. Then another man said that
>> many houses have a room only for storing money, so you can buy a larger
>> house in the future. I don't know if this was a practical joke, but that's
>> how it was.
>>
>> Yesterday we launched Wikimedia Enterprise. This e-mail is not to show my
>> disagreement with the idea itself, but with the outcome. It seems that the
>> purpose of Wikimedia Entrerprise is to have a large money revenue offering
>> volunteer's time and content to the rich who are willing to pay for a
>> better API. Believe it or not, I like to tax the rich.
>>
>> We have millions of dollars in our money room, and, if everything goes as
>> planned with Wikimedia Enterprise, we will soon need to buy a new house to
>> have a larger room to store all those cheques, notes and assets. The room
>> will soon look huge and plenty of money. Still, there's no plan to paint
>> the house, arrange the sofa, solve the water leakage we have in the toilet,
>> mow the lawn or buy a new set of pans so we can cook healthy food there.
>> Soon, the cow will start aging and won't have more milk to sell. But yes,
>> the money room will be huge. We will have more and more and more millions,
>> but we will still... yes... obsolete.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Galder
>> ___
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>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/HZALAV3GIRPIHJIHRD4JGMGEKBBF6VGQ/
>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks Anders,
"We are the opposite to obsolete" is a good sentence, because this would imply 
that our platform is the bow of an icebreaker. But we still, in 2021, can't do 
this things (you can help by expanding this list):

  *   Simultaneous edition
  *   Auto-save in sandbox
  *   Publishing from sandbox
  *   Upload MP4 files
  *   Render correctly vectorial files
  *   Embed our own Wikidata query results in our own projects
  *   Have a modern look
  *   Have cross-project templates and modules
  *   Visual edit from mobile
  *   Create visually interesting cartography
  *   Hear the articles
  *   Export multiple articles as a pdf/doc (whatever)
  *   ...
  *   

Someone will answer to this message talking about the "Wishlist survey" every 
year we have. This scarcity generating system also gives funny outcomes. Let's 
take the 2019 survey. 10 projects were voted. Only 4 done: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2019/Results. Or the 
2017 one: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2017/Results. Some 
projects where done, some not and there are some that are external tools that 
you have to use as a gadget.

Students are relying on YouTube to learn things. We are obsolete. Very obsolete.

Galder



From: Anders Wennersten 
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:23 PM
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

"We will have more and more and more millions, but we will still...
yes... obsolete." Galder


What phenomenon do you see challenge Wikipedias role as a source for
common knowledge, an encyklopedia for everyone?

I see that for the last 20 years no successful commercial encyclopedia
has been launched.

I see how the social media have a hard time to be a platform for common
knowledge and hard pressed to employ armies of moderators. And Google
very happy to lean and steal from Wikipedia rather the do something
similar themself (which would go down badly in the public)

But the war of information is a reality and heating up. We can be very
glad that so far we have not been a target of all angriness of what is
to be seen as the "correct" information. But that could change, what if
a new administration in US want to control what is written in Wikipedia.
Or China want to set up a parallel in English as the have now in
Chinese. If these thing happen we need to have resources to fight off
these type a of challenges, not only for our own sake but for he people
in the world who is used to turn to Wikipedia for basic facts.

We are the opposite to obsolete, we are in the front seat and driving
for correct facts in the emerging information war we now see

Anders
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Andreas Kolbe]

The Wikimedia Enterprise site surely is up:
https://enterprise.wikimedia.com/pricing/

Did I miss an announcement here on this mailing list?

At least there was a WMF blog post:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2021/10/25/wikimedia-foundation-launches-wikimedia-enterprise-the-new-opt-in-product-for-companies-and-organizations-to-easily-reuse-content-from-wikipedia-and-wikimedia-projects/

Anders: The best thing that could happen to Wikipedia would be to have a
competitor. Think about it for a moment, for God's sake.

Andreas

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 3:55 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Dear wikimedians,
> Some years ago, I visited Uzbekistan. I was shocked and amused to find
> that the largest paper note was 2.000 soʻm at that time, with a plan to
> start with the 5.000 paper note soon. The most used one still was the 1.000
> soʻm note, that was about 35 US cents in the bank and about 20 US cents in
> the street markets. So, the first time we changed two 100 USD$ paper notes
> into soʻm we got around 800 paper notes in bunches of 100. It was quite
> interesting to note that people in the street went with black plastic bags
> full of money in order to buy at the market or get a taxi ride. Some days
> later, I talked to a local taxi driver and he told me that when he bought
> his car, he needed a small truck to carry all the paper notes to the car
> selling store. Of course, I took that as a joke. Then another man said that
> many houses have a room only for storing money, so you can buy a larger
> house in the future. I don't know if this was a practical joke, but that's
> how it was.
>
> Yesterday we launched Wikimedia Enterprise. This e-mail is not to show my
> disagreement with the idea itself, but with the outcome. It seems that the
> purpose of Wikimedia Entrerprise is to have a large money revenue offering
> volunteer's time and content to the rich who are willing to pay for a
> better API. Believe it or not, I like to tax the rich.
>
> We have millions of dollars in our money room, and, if everything goes as
> planned with Wikimedia Enterprise, we will soon need to buy a new house to
> have a larger room to store all those cheques, notes and assets. The room
> will soon look huge and plenty of money. Still, there's no plan to paint
> the house, arrange the sofa, solve the water leakage we have in the toilet,
> mow the lawn or buy a new set of pans so we can cook healthy food there.
> Soon, the cow will start aging and won't have more milk to sell. But yes,
> the money room will be huge. We will have more and more and more millions,
> but we will still... yes... obsolete.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Galder
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> Public archives at
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Anders Wennersten]

"We will have more and more and more millions, but we will still... 
yes... obsolete." Galder



What phenomenon do you see challenge Wikipedias role as a source for 
common knowledge, an encyklopedia for everyone?


I see that for the last 20 years no successful commercial encyclopedia 
has been launched.


I see how the social media have a hard time to be a platform for common 
knowledge and hard pressed to employ armies of moderators. And Google 
very happy to lean and steal from Wikipedia rather the do something 
similar themself (which would go down badly in the public)


But the war of information is a reality and heating up. We can be very 
glad that so far we have not been a target of all angriness of what is 
to be seen as the "correct" information. But that could change, what if 
a new administration in US want to control what is written in Wikipedia. 
Or China want to set up a parallel in English as the have now in 
Chinese. If these thing happen we need to have resources to fight off 
these type a of challenges, not only for our own sake but for he people 
in the world who is used to turn to Wikipedia for basic facts.


We are the opposite to obsolete, we are in the front seat and driving 
for correct facts in the emerging information war we now see


Anders
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