Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimania tour of Rahul Desmukh
Hi Yohann, Thanks for your mail. If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see, that many participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended the meeting on behalf of the president. For example, Nahid Sultan attended the meeting on behalf of Wikipedia Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General Secretary of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join the meeting as a President of any affiliates, usually, if one representative of an affiliate is present in that conference, he can represent the affiliate. In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna Chaitanya Velaga, were present and one of them could have attended the meeting on behalf of WMIN. Can you please explain, why WMIN decided to spend a huge amount of donation money to send WMIN president to attend a meeting, where his presence is not at all mandatory. Does WMIN consider these two members unfit to attend such meeting? Waiting for your reply, Bodhisattwa On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas" wrote: Dear Bodhi & other community members First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia India is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion on any topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid volunteers & have their own professional lives apart from Wikimedia India, there was a delay in drafting a reply. As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties towards the chapter, as well as serve their regional communities (as well as user groups) in their volunteer roles. Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't financially independent & is still dependent on external funding which is fraught with regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA. Having said that, many community members juggle their different roles in community, affiliates, committees & in personal & professional roles to attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers around the world. In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below. https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2018 With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its trip & they accepted his proposal. Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would really want to appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in relation to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter before his term expired, he still continues to support the chapter on different issues, inspite of us still battling with all our regulatory hurdles. I wish there were more such vocal well wishers, when the chapter is going through a difficult time. Regards, Yohann Thomas Secretary Wikimedia India On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal, wrote: > Hi, > > WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in Cape Town > without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question is why was > he sent to the conference depriving other community members from India who > were in the waiting list. > > He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. The meeting > doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and already there > were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the meeting. > > To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money. > > Thanks, > Bodhisattwa > ___ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimania tour of Rahul Desmukh
Dear Bodhi & other community members First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia India is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion on any topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid volunteers & have their own professional lives apart from Wikimedia India, there was a delay in drafting a reply. As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties towards the chapter, as well as serve their regional communities (as well as user groups) in their volunteer roles. Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't financially independent & is still dependent on external funding which is fraught with regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA. Having said that, many community members juggle their different roles in community, affiliates, committees & in personal & professional roles to attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers around the world. In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below. https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2018 With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its trip & they accepted his proposal. Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would really want to appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in relation to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter before his term expired, he still continues to support the chapter on different issues, inspite of us still battling with all our regulatory hurdles. I wish there were more such vocal well wishers, when the chapter is going through a difficult time. Regards, Yohann Thomas Secretary Wikimedia India On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal, wrote: > Hi, > > WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in Cape Town > without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question is why was > he sent to the conference depriving other community members from India who > were in the waiting list. > > He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. The meeting > doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and already there > were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the meeting. > > To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money. > > Thanks, > Bodhisattwa > ___ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimania tour of Rahul Desmukh
Hi Asaf, Wikimedia India community members and CIS A2K Team, I am sorry for intervening in this whole discussion but I feel the discussion is deviating from the primary concern as we have received another mail where a number of concerns have been raised in response to the primary issue raised by Bodhi. My subscription was faulty and thanks to Sailesh who fixed it and I got a digest of emails. From what I've learned through the emails, Wikimedia India representatives are usually sent to attend the annual wiki gatherings like Wikimedia Conference and this time it was Wikimania. I am sorry to state that we (community) have never been approached by anyone from the Chapter to discuss issues, events, Training or to offer some assistance. We have only one point of contact for all our issues and plans and that is CIS A2K Team. When Wikimedia India Chapter is not taking initiatives to bring the communities together or to take the movement ahead, then what is the purpose of their representatives attending these events, what do they have to impart to other wikimedians there? and how are they using the learnings in progressing the movement? Can someone please clearly address these questions and then we can discuss the other issues raised in the different thread. Regards, Manavpreet Kaur On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 3:42 PM, Amritasya Putra wrote: > Why doesn’t my email reach this list? I have been a member for, like three > years. > > On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 10:00 AM, Asaf Bartov wrote: > >> Certainly, we can wait. But please understand I did not assert WMIN (or >> anyone) needs to apologize. Please reread and you'll find I posed it in a >> conditional, as *one* possible outcome of resolving Bodhisattwa's concern. >> I also described another possible scenario. >> >> A. >> >> On Aug 3, 2018 06:21, "Abhinav srivastava" wrote: >> >> Hello Asaf, >> >> In consent with my last mail on the thread, please be assured, no >> discussion whatsoever will take place until WMIN replies to the concerns, >> the community takes its time to question, inspect and interrogate the >> matter. Yes, all other issues will be raised on a separate thread and in >> good spirit only after this matter is resolved. As Subhashish pointed out, >> the issue is not about one person or an institution but bettering the >> process. That is essentially the reason they had been brought up. >> >> Asaf, It is always nice to hear from you. You have always followed the >> Indian community closely and helped it in whatever way. We all appreciate >> that. I would look forward to hearing about the better methodological >> processes of debates and discussions on resolving community matter. This >> would also help us in the future course. The Indian community is >> progressing in resolving its disputes in a peaceful and coherent manner and >> we wish to learn more of this. >> >> In continuity with my second paragraph, it would be great if you guide us >> on this. This would make the community inclusive and self-sustaining. I am >> not very happy that when the matter is sub-judice in the people's court, >> you holding WMF office, is talking about on ways WMIN can apologize. To >> re-iterate, provide us with methodological solutions and leave the >> community to decide. >> >> Also, I am not sure since you holding WMF office should advise about >> distractions.concerning the second point clearly deals with conflicts in >> Wikimedia Foundation policy. Of course, the platform could be a reason and >> for that, we will make sure we do not jump across topics. In fact, when we >> move ahead on those issues (only after resolving the principal problem) I >> would encourage you to be a participant (representing WMF). There are few >> essentially questions concerning few community members regarding WMF >> policies which I may share with you personally, whatever you find >> appropriate can be further asked on the community mailing list. >> >> At last, I have spoken to different EC members. Two EC members have also >> written to me stating that they will reply about WMIN stand. They have >> assured me that they will reply as soon as possible. As a past EC member, I >> would like to tell, finalizing a WMIN stand takes some time since EC >> members need to discuss, deliberate and then provide to their consent. As >> you all are aware unlike CIS-A2K or WMF, Wikimedia India is a voluntary >> organization, EC has his/her own personal life (own office work etc), hence >> at times, it takes some time. However, a reply will follow-up very shortly. >> >> To sum up, no more discussions please, let's stick on the principal >> query, please. >> >> Abhinav >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:33 AM Asaf Bartov wrote: >> >>> Folks, >>> >>> As an outside observer, may I encourage everyone to try to keep this one >>> thread about its one, original topic? Abhinav, I found your responses >>> defensive and distracting -- listing other issues and other groups about >>> which concerns can be
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimania tour of Rahul Desmukh
(@Amritasya: please note, your's an off-topic discussion here) It does, and those who are subscribers to the list can see your mail. You can always check the archive ( https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/) to check if your mail has made it to the discussion or not. You can write to the mailing list moderators ( wikimediaindia-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org) if you sent something to the list and it never made it to a discussion on time. Subhashish On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 3:42 PM Amritasya Putra wrote: > Why doesn’t my email reach this list? I have been a member for, like three > years. > > On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 10:00 AM, Asaf Bartov wrote: > >> Certainly, we can wait. But please understand I did not assert WMIN (or >> anyone) needs to apologize. Please reread and you'll find I posed it in a >> conditional, as *one* possible outcome of resolving Bodhisattwa's concern. >> I also described another possible scenario. >> >> A. >> >> On Aug 3, 2018 06:21, "Abhinav srivastava" wrote: >> >> Hello Asaf, >> >> In consent with my last mail on the thread, please be assured, no >> discussion whatsoever will take place until WMIN replies to the concerns, >> the community takes its time to question, inspect and interrogate the >> matter. Yes, all other issues will be raised on a separate thread and in >> good spirit only after this matter is resolved. As Subhashish pointed out, >> the issue is not about one person or an institution but bettering the >> process. That is essentially the reason they had been brought up. >> >> Asaf, It is always nice to hear from you. You have always followed the >> Indian community closely and helped it in whatever way. We all appreciate >> that. I would look forward to hearing about the better methodological >> processes of debates and discussions on resolving community matter. This >> would also help us in the future course. The Indian community is >> progressing in resolving its disputes in a peaceful and coherent manner and >> we wish to learn more of this. >> >> In continuity with my second paragraph, it would be great if you guide us >> on this. This would make the community inclusive and self-sustaining. I am >> not very happy that when the matter is sub-judice in the people's court, >> you holding WMF office, is talking about on ways WMIN can apologize. To >> re-iterate, provide us with methodological solutions and leave the >> community to decide. >> >> Also, I am not sure since you holding WMF office should advise about >> distractions.concerning the second point clearly deals with conflicts in >> Wikimedia Foundation policy. Of course, the platform could be a reason and >> for that, we will make sure we do not jump across topics. In fact, when we >> move ahead on those issues (only after resolving the principal problem) I >> would encourage you to be a participant (representing WMF). There are few >> essentially questions concerning few community members regarding WMF >> policies which I may share with you personally, whatever you find >> appropriate can be further asked on the community mailing list. >> >> At last, I have spoken to different EC members. Two EC members have also >> written to me stating that they will reply about WMIN stand. They have >> assured me that they will reply as soon as possible. As a past EC member, I >> would like to tell, finalizing a WMIN stand takes some time since EC >> members need to discuss, deliberate and then provide to their consent. As >> you all are aware unlike CIS-A2K or WMF, Wikimedia India is a voluntary >> organization, EC has his/her own personal life (own office work etc), hence >> at times, it takes some time. However, a reply will follow-up very shortly. >> >> To sum up, no more discussions please, let's stick on the principal >> query, please. >> >> Abhinav >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:33 AM Asaf Bartov wrote: >> >>> Folks, >>> >>> As an outside observer, may I encourage everyone to try to keep this one >>> thread about its one, original topic? Abhinav, I found your responses >>> defensive and distracting -- listing other issues and other groups about >>> which concerns can be raised is a very poor response to *this* concern >>> raised on this thread. By all means, raise those concerns if you want to >>> pursue them (rather than merely use them as distraction on this thread), >>> *in a separate thread*. >>> >>> I encourage the WMIN EC, which is the body accountable to its membership >>> and to the broader communities in India, to address Bodhisattwa's concern >>> directly and politely, as befits an organization aiming to be >>> representative of the entire movement in India. *Please* don't respond >>> with bluster, nor with [[whataboutism]]. If there was some poor governance >>> or inappropriate decision-making involved here, just own up to it, >>> apologize[1], and commit to doing better. Everybody would appreciate you >>> for doing the right thing. >>> >>> If the appearance
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimania tour of Rahul Desmukh
Why doesn’t my email reach this list? I have been a member for, like three years. On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 10:00 AM, Asaf Bartov wrote: > Certainly, we can wait. But please understand I did not assert WMIN (or > anyone) needs to apologize. Please reread and you'll find I posed it in a > conditional, as *one* possible outcome of resolving Bodhisattwa's concern. > I also described another possible scenario. > > A. > > On Aug 3, 2018 06:21, "Abhinav srivastava" wrote: > > Hello Asaf, > > In consent with my last mail on the thread, please be assured, no > discussion whatsoever will take place until WMIN replies to the concerns, > the community takes its time to question, inspect and interrogate the > matter. Yes, all other issues will be raised on a separate thread and in > good spirit only after this matter is resolved. As Subhashish pointed out, > the issue is not about one person or an institution but bettering the > process. That is essentially the reason they had been brought up. > > Asaf, It is always nice to hear from you. You have always followed the > Indian community closely and helped it in whatever way. We all appreciate > that. I would look forward to hearing about the better methodological > processes of debates and discussions on resolving community matter. This > would also help us in the future course. The Indian community is > progressing in resolving its disputes in a peaceful and coherent manner and > we wish to learn more of this. > > In continuity with my second paragraph, it would be great if you guide us > on this. This would make the community inclusive and self-sustaining. I am > not very happy that when the matter is sub-judice in the people's court, > you holding WMF office, is talking about on ways WMIN can apologize. To > re-iterate, provide us with methodological solutions and leave the > community to decide. > > Also, I am not sure since you holding WMF office should advise about > distractions.concerning the second point clearly deals with conflicts in > Wikimedia Foundation policy. Of course, the platform could be a reason and > for that, we will make sure we do not jump across topics. In fact, when we > move ahead on those issues (only after resolving the principal problem) I > would encourage you to be a participant (representing WMF). There are few > essentially questions concerning few community members regarding WMF > policies which I may share with you personally, whatever you find > appropriate can be further asked on the community mailing list. > > At last, I have spoken to different EC members. Two EC members have also > written to me stating that they will reply about WMIN stand. They have > assured me that they will reply as soon as possible. As a past EC member, I > would like to tell, finalizing a WMIN stand takes some time since EC > members need to discuss, deliberate and then provide to their consent. As > you all are aware unlike CIS-A2K or WMF, Wikimedia India is a voluntary > organization, EC has his/her own personal life (own office work etc), hence > at times, it takes some time. However, a reply will follow-up very shortly. > > To sum up, no more discussions please, let's stick on the principal query, > please. > > Abhinav > > > > On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:33 AM Asaf Bartov wrote: > >> Folks, >> >> As an outside observer, may I encourage everyone to try to keep this one >> thread about its one, original topic? Abhinav, I found your responses >> defensive and distracting -- listing other issues and other groups about >> which concerns can be raised is a very poor response to *this* concern >> raised on this thread. By all means, raise those concerns if you want to >> pursue them (rather than merely use them as distraction on this thread), >> *in a separate thread*. >> >> I encourage the WMIN EC, which is the body accountable to its membership >> and to the broader communities in India, to address Bodhisattwa's concern >> directly and politely, as befits an organization aiming to be >> representative of the entire movement in India. *Please* don't respond >> with bluster, nor with [[whataboutism]]. If there was some poor governance >> or inappropriate decision-making involved here, just own up to it, >> apologize[1], and commit to doing better. Everybody would appreciate you >> for doing the right thing. >> >> If the appearance Bodhisattwa's concern responds to is *incorrect*, by >> all means, calmly respond with the facts as they are and demonstrate to the >> community that there is nothing to be concerned about. Also reflect on how >> that appearance was created despite everything being okay, and what can, >> and should, be done to prevent such appearances in the future. Thinking >> about this, and sharing your conclusions, would also, I dare say, be >> welcomed by the community on this mailing list. >> >> I look forward to this matter resolving peacefully one way or another, >> but please, let us stick to the substance of *this* thread on
[Wikimediaindia-l] CIS-A2K : Transparency and Other Issues
Dear Friends From CIS-A2K, I am bringing up a discussion based on few of the concerns expressed on the other mail thread. I would like to acknowledge on record, the past few years CIS-A2K has reached out to communities (besides Focussed Language Area) much more effectively. I may be the first person to say this publicly but I am sure many more would echo my views here. Now what concerns me and something CIS-A2K already knows, when the community has started acknowledging your work much more, CIS-A2K has been acting as the necessary intervention in times of crisis why transparency is being not paid its due. I list some of my questions which everyone is already aware of and would request a reply. I would request you to not break the bullet and reply each of them separately. Of course! If you are comfortable. ==Conference== (a)Did CIS-A2K organize a conference/meetup in Bengaluru this summer? (b) How were the delegates selected and which communities were invited? (c)For all those communities who were invited (based on your response to part b) was an official notification sent via village pump, mailing list, reaching out to User Group representatives? (d) Is there a legitimate reason to be non-transparent in the process? (e)When a former CIS-A2K staff informed you about not maintaining transparency why was still no heed paid to it (if part d of the question is NO)? (f) Can reports, learning patterns etc be shared with the community? (g)How much funds were involved? (h) What were the responsibilities of different CIS-A2K staff during the workshop? ==Reports== (a)What has been stopping CIS-A2K to share their monthly reports on the mailing list and their Report Section of Wikimedia Meta? (b) Can we hear about the reports, shortly? @Satdeep: I could not find any Meta page but I do find a page which is put under-construction and this mentions you. Were you a part of this? If Yes, I am not able to understand, the entire argument you had posted yesterday about reporting guidelines and transparency. Only If, You Were A Party to This. To Everyone, I understand I may be playing the devil’s role here. Some of my close aides have already advised me to stay back since I am damaging my personal reputation. My argument is simple if my personal image promotes inclusiveness and transparency. I will be happy to remain a soldier fighting. Abhinav ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimania tour of Rahul Desmukh
Hello Asaf, Tito, Bodhi and others, Bodhisattwa: Although Wikimedia India is yet to reply it would be in the best interest that Wikimedia India also incorporates the question put up by Bodhisattwa. Tito: Coming out publicly is a welcome step and also apologizing. The point 3 and 4 effectively concerns CIS-A2K in the different capacity. I have asked about it on a separate mail thread. It would be great if we can listen from your team. Asaf: Indeed, you did point out about many different scenarios. Most of them caution about being appropriate and maintaining friendly space policy simultaneously. In the recent past, Wikimedia India has remained friendly and I am sure they will continue to remain so. Thank You for the caution and reminding though. I was also expecting to hear on Point 2 which concerns resolving disputes in the organizational process and resolving the conflict. While I did provide a suggestion, I would like to hear from you. What methods can the community adopt? A suggestion in this regard would be highly advisable. Thanks, Abhinav On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 1:21 PM Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Tito, > > Thanks for the clarification from the part of CIS-A2K. > > It is clear now from your reply, that the WMIN president sent a request to > CIS-A2K to support for his participation in Wikimania and CIS-A2K responded > positively as this was an official request from an affiliate > representative, I guess. > > By the way, did he mention the cause of his participation as an WMIN > representative in the same conference, where already 2 EC members got full > scholarship to attend. Like my first mail, I am still having the question, > what extra value was targeted to be added in the conference by WMIN > president, which could not have been achieved by the 2 EC members and and > thus came the dire necessity to send another member with donation money? > > Thanks, > Bodhisattwa > > > On Fri, 3 Aug 2018, 12:42 Tito Dutta, wrote: > >> Hello, >> I, on behalf of CIS-A2K would like to clarify our position regarding Mr. >> Rahul Deshmukh/WMIN representative's participation in Wikimania 2018. >> >> We unconditionally apologise for not sending out information to community >> and mailing lists about this support extended by A2K. >> >> We received an official email from WMIN representative requesting support >> towards participation. This email thread was addressed to Program Manager >> of A2K, and was copied to WMIN EC. CIS-A2K extended its support based on >> this request. >> >> We assure that we will maintain transparency with our future >> communication. >> >> >> >> >> Thanks >> Tito Dutta >> Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to >> remind me over email or phone call. >> >> >> On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 10:00, Asaf Bartov wrote: >> >>> Certainly, we can wait. But please understand I did not assert WMIN (or >>> anyone) needs to apologize. Please reread and you'll find I posed it in a >>> conditional, as *one* possible outcome of resolving Bodhisattwa's concern. >>> I also described another possible scenario. >>> >>> A. >>> >>> On Aug 3, 2018 06:21, "Abhinav srivastava" wrote: >>> >>> Hello Asaf, >>> >>> In consent with my last mail on the thread, please be assured, no >>> discussion whatsoever will take place until WMIN replies to the concerns, >>> the community takes its time to question, inspect and interrogate the >>> matter. Yes, all other issues will be raised on a separate thread and in >>> good spirit only after this matter is resolved. As Subhashish pointed out, >>> the issue is not about one person or an institution but bettering the >>> process. That is essentially the reason they had been brought up. >>> >>> Asaf, It is always nice to hear from you. You have always followed the >>> Indian community closely and helped it in whatever way. We all appreciate >>> that. I would look forward to hearing about the better methodological >>> processes of debates and discussions on resolving community matter. This >>> would also help us in the future course. The Indian community is >>> progressing in resolving its disputes in a peaceful and coherent manner and >>> we wish to learn more of this. >>> >>> In continuity with my second paragraph, it would be great if you guide >>> us on this. This would make the community inclusive and self-sustaining. I >>> am not very happy that when the matter is sub-judice in the people's court, >>> you holding WMF office, is talking about on ways WMIN can apologize. To >>> re-iterate, provide us with methodological solutions and leave the >>> community to decide. >>> >>> Also, I am not sure since you holding WMF office should advise about >>> distractions.concerning the second point clearly deals with conflicts in >>> Wikimedia Foundation policy. Of course, the platform could be a reason and >>> for that, we will make sure we do not jump across topics. In fact, when we >>> move ahead on those issues (only
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimania tour of Rahul Desmukh
Hi Tito, Thanks for the clarification from the part of CIS-A2K. It is clear now from your reply, that the WMIN president sent a request to CIS-A2K to support for his participation in Wikimania and CIS-A2K responded positively as this was an official request from an affiliate representative, I guess. By the way, did he mention the cause of his participation as an WMIN representative in the same conference, where already 2 EC members got full scholarship to attend. Like my first mail, I am still having the question, what extra value was targeted to be added in the conference by WMIN president, which could not have been achieved by the 2 EC members and and thus came the dire necessity to send another member with donation money? Thanks, Bodhisattwa On Fri, 3 Aug 2018, 12:42 Tito Dutta, wrote: > Hello, > I, on behalf of CIS-A2K would like to clarify our position regarding Mr. > Rahul Deshmukh/WMIN representative's participation in Wikimania 2018. > > We unconditionally apologise for not sending out information to community > and mailing lists about this support extended by A2K. > > We received an official email from WMIN representative requesting support > towards participation. This email thread was addressed to Program Manager > of A2K, and was copied to WMIN EC. CIS-A2K extended its support based on > this request. > > We assure that we will maintain transparency with our future communication. > > > > > Thanks > Tito Dutta > Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind > me over email or phone call. > > > On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 10:00, Asaf Bartov wrote: > >> Certainly, we can wait. But please understand I did not assert WMIN (or >> anyone) needs to apologize. Please reread and you'll find I posed it in a >> conditional, as *one* possible outcome of resolving Bodhisattwa's concern. >> I also described another possible scenario. >> >> A. >> >> On Aug 3, 2018 06:21, "Abhinav srivastava" wrote: >> >> Hello Asaf, >> >> In consent with my last mail on the thread, please be assured, no >> discussion whatsoever will take place until WMIN replies to the concerns, >> the community takes its time to question, inspect and interrogate the >> matter. Yes, all other issues will be raised on a separate thread and in >> good spirit only after this matter is resolved. As Subhashish pointed out, >> the issue is not about one person or an institution but bettering the >> process. That is essentially the reason they had been brought up. >> >> Asaf, It is always nice to hear from you. You have always followed the >> Indian community closely and helped it in whatever way. We all appreciate >> that. I would look forward to hearing about the better methodological >> processes of debates and discussions on resolving community matter. This >> would also help us in the future course. The Indian community is >> progressing in resolving its disputes in a peaceful and coherent manner and >> we wish to learn more of this. >> >> In continuity with my second paragraph, it would be great if you guide us >> on this. This would make the community inclusive and self-sustaining. I am >> not very happy that when the matter is sub-judice in the people's court, >> you holding WMF office, is talking about on ways WMIN can apologize. To >> re-iterate, provide us with methodological solutions and leave the >> community to decide. >> >> Also, I am not sure since you holding WMF office should advise about >> distractions.concerning the second point clearly deals with conflicts in >> Wikimedia Foundation policy. Of course, the platform could be a reason and >> for that, we will make sure we do not jump across topics. In fact, when we >> move ahead on those issues (only after resolving the principal problem) I >> would encourage you to be a participant (representing WMF). There are few >> essentially questions concerning few community members regarding WMF >> policies which I may share with you personally, whatever you find >> appropriate can be further asked on the community mailing list. >> >> At last, I have spoken to different EC members. Two EC members have also >> written to me stating that they will reply about WMIN stand. They have >> assured me that they will reply as soon as possible. As a past EC member, I >> would like to tell, finalizing a WMIN stand takes some time since EC >> members need to discuss, deliberate and then provide to their consent. As >> you all are aware unlike CIS-A2K or WMF, Wikimedia India is a voluntary >> organization, EC has his/her own personal life (own office work etc), hence >> at times, it takes some time. However, a reply will follow-up very shortly. >> >> To sum up, no more discussions please, let's stick on the principal >> query, please. >> >> Abhinav >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:33 AM Asaf Bartov wrote: >> >>> Folks, >>> >>> As an outside observer, may I encourage everyone to try to keep this one >>> thread about its one, original topic? Abhinav, I found
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimania tour of Rahul Desmukh
Hello, I, on behalf of CIS-A2K would like to clarify our position regarding Mr. Rahul Deshmukh/WMIN representative's participation in Wikimania 2018. We unconditionally apologise for not sending out information to community and mailing lists about this support extended by A2K. We received an official email from WMIN representative requesting support towards participation. This email thread was addressed to Program Manager of A2K, and was copied to WMIN EC. CIS-A2K extended its support based on this request. We assure that we will maintain transparency with our future communication. Thanks Tito Dutta Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind me over email or phone call. On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 10:00, Asaf Bartov wrote: > Certainly, we can wait. But please understand I did not assert WMIN (or > anyone) needs to apologize. Please reread and you'll find I posed it in a > conditional, as *one* possible outcome of resolving Bodhisattwa's concern. > I also described another possible scenario. > > A. > > On Aug 3, 2018 06:21, "Abhinav srivastava" wrote: > > Hello Asaf, > > In consent with my last mail on the thread, please be assured, no > discussion whatsoever will take place until WMIN replies to the concerns, > the community takes its time to question, inspect and interrogate the > matter. Yes, all other issues will be raised on a separate thread and in > good spirit only after this matter is resolved. As Subhashish pointed out, > the issue is not about one person or an institution but bettering the > process. That is essentially the reason they had been brought up. > > Asaf, It is always nice to hear from you. You have always followed the > Indian community closely and helped it in whatever way. We all appreciate > that. I would look forward to hearing about the better methodological > processes of debates and discussions on resolving community matter. This > would also help us in the future course. The Indian community is > progressing in resolving its disputes in a peaceful and coherent manner and > we wish to learn more of this. > > In continuity with my second paragraph, it would be great if you guide us > on this. This would make the community inclusive and self-sustaining. I am > not very happy that when the matter is sub-judice in the people's court, > you holding WMF office, is talking about on ways WMIN can apologize. To > re-iterate, provide us with methodological solutions and leave the > community to decide. > > Also, I am not sure since you holding WMF office should advise about > distractions.concerning the second point clearly deals with conflicts in > Wikimedia Foundation policy. Of course, the platform could be a reason and > for that, we will make sure we do not jump across topics. In fact, when we > move ahead on those issues (only after resolving the principal problem) I > would encourage you to be a participant (representing WMF). There are few > essentially questions concerning few community members regarding WMF > policies which I may share with you personally, whatever you find > appropriate can be further asked on the community mailing list. > > At last, I have spoken to different EC members. Two EC members have also > written to me stating that they will reply about WMIN stand. They have > assured me that they will reply as soon as possible. As a past EC member, I > would like to tell, finalizing a WMIN stand takes some time since EC > members need to discuss, deliberate and then provide to their consent. As > you all are aware unlike CIS-A2K or WMF, Wikimedia India is a voluntary > organization, EC has his/her own personal life (own office work etc), hence > at times, it takes some time. However, a reply will follow-up very shortly. > > To sum up, no more discussions please, let's stick on the principal query, > please. > > Abhinav > > > > On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:33 AM Asaf Bartov wrote: > >> Folks, >> >> As an outside observer, may I encourage everyone to try to keep this one >> thread about its one, original topic? Abhinav, I found your responses >> defensive and distracting -- listing other issues and other groups about >> which concerns can be raised is a very poor response to *this* concern >> raised on this thread. By all means, raise those concerns if you want to >> pursue them (rather than merely use them as distraction on this thread), >> *in a separate thread*. >> >> I encourage the WMIN EC, which is the body accountable to its membership >> and to the broader communities in India, to address Bodhisattwa's concern >> directly and politely, as befits an organization aiming to be >> representative of the entire movement in India. *Please* don't respond >> with bluster, nor with [[whataboutism]]. If there was some poor governance >> or inappropriate decision-making involved here, just own up to it, >> apologize[1], and commit to doing better. Everybody would appreciate you >> for doing the right thing. >> >> If the
