Re: [Wikimediauk-l] What should we spend our money on?
2009/10/19 Andrew Turvey : > The 2009 Annual Wikimedia Fundraiser is just round the corner and we need to > crystallize the list of items that we will use our income for so that we can > encourage people to donate. > > I've done a first draft at > http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/2009_Winter_Fundraiser#Use_of_funds - please > could you take a look and edit away! What would inspire you to donate? > > Andrew At the moment the biggest area we haven't managed to get into at all is crown copyright expired UK gov video. The postwar collection appears to be held by the national archives: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/films/1945to1951/filmindex.htm But I'm not sure who got the old Ministry of Information stuff. Have a bad feeling it might be the IWM. The other thing we haven't really looked into is the various wrecks off the British coast. Things like HMS A1. A lot of this stuff is restricted under the Protection of Wrecks Act 1973 but there are groups who get permission to dive the things and it would be nice to make contact. -- geni ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] C&binet Forum
I was at the Aus GLAM wiki event and foubd the Wikimedia aus people stimulating and and an egageing. I joined this list hoping for more of the same. Especially as the whole way in which wikimedia can engage with big new debates on open acceess , public space , public private etc is up for bebate , not just in the UK but also elsewhere And all I have in the last post is offensive bollocks. THis is way way disappointing Paul reynolds On 10/21/09, Bod Notbod wrote: > On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:08 PM, geni wrote: > >> Can you get him to meet some famous musicians? Childhood TV stars >> perhaps? No? Your opinion means approx diddly squat then. > > I was under no illusions that Peter Mandelson would drop to his knees > and suck my cock for making hitherto unthought of ideas available to > him. > > Since when did it become list policy that one should only post > opinions that Peter Mandelson would subscribe to? I mean, I wouldn't > put it past the Labour government to bring this in under a new > communications act, but I think until they do you might be rather more > circumspect with your diddles and, indeed, squats. > > ___ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org > > -- Sent from my mobile device paul reynolds mcgovern online web : www.mcgovern.co.nz blog : www.peoplepoints.co.nz twitter: www.twitter.com/littlehigh cell 1 : +64 [0] 21 850 824 cell 2: +64 [0] 27 263 2421 land: +64 9 3073435 ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] C&binet Forum
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:08 PM, geni wrote: > Can you get him to meet some famous musicians? Childhood TV stars > perhaps? No? Your opinion means approx diddly squat then. I was under no illusions that Peter Mandelson would drop to his knees and suck my cock for making hitherto unthought of ideas available to him. Since when did it become list policy that one should only post opinions that Peter Mandelson would subscribe to? I mean, I wouldn't put it past the Labour government to bring this in under a new communications act, but I think until they do you might be rather more circumspect with your diddles and, indeed, squats. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] C&binet Forum
2009/10/20 Bod Notbod : > On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Brian McNeil > wrote: > > Joking aside, I think that if I had a moment alone with Peter > Mandelson and could curb my violent impulses for five minutes, I'd put > it to him that cutting off someone's internet for illegal downloading > is a punishment liable to be suffered as much by the innocent as the > guilty. Can you get him to meet some famous musicians? Childhood TV stars perhaps? No? Your opinion means approx diddly squat then. Flick through http://dominicseuroblog.wordpress.com/ if you want to see the kind of tactics used. > I'd also like to tell Mandy that copyright terms of life plus 70 years > is helping a select few whilst denying huge amounts of culture to the > many and that owning something for 70 years after YOU'RE FRICKIN' DEAD > is unlikely to be the spur to activity the government thinks it is. In > addition, a next generation that inherits income from copyrighted > works actually is disincentivised from getting a job if the income > from the copyright is sufficient to support them. The government > normally *loathes* people who don't go out to work, but apparently > it's fine if your dad happens to have written The Da Vinci Code. At this point dropping below life+70 isn't going to happen. There isn't much of a campaign to extend it beyond that though. -- geni ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] C&binet Forum
2009/10/20 Brian McNeil : > What is, actually, conspicuously absent from the discussion is whether > anyone has a *right* to make a profit on these creative works. Copyright > is a social contract; society grants a work's creator(s) a limited > duration monopoly to allow them the *opportunity* to make a profit. Outside wikimedia's remit. Wikimedia is interested in maintaining the right not to make money of your work and any further erosion of the public domain. -- geni ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] C&binet Forum
On Tue, 2009-10-20 at 18:16 +0100, Bod Notbod wrote: > On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Brian McNeil > wrote: > > Arstechnica has a good article relating to this today. Those > > well-entrenched and profiting from creative works have a 100+ year > > history of scaremongering and depriving the public domain what they > > agreed to give it in the first place. > > Are you referring to this one? > > http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/10/google-book-digitization-prompts-the-eu-to-rethink-copyright.ars > > If not please send a link as I'd be interested to see it. No, this one: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/10/100-years-of-big-content-fearing-technologyin-its-own-words.ars -- Brian McNeil Wikinewsie.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] C&binet Forum
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Brian McNeil wrote: Joking aside, I think that if I had a moment alone with Peter Mandelson and could curb my violent impulses for five minutes, I'd put it to him that cutting off someone's internet for illegal downloading is a punishment liable to be suffered as much by the innocent as the guilty. Take a bog standard family of four, married with 2 kids... maybe a 15 year old son downloads copyrighted media, gets caught, internet cut off. Now dad can't run his business, mum can't do her grocery shopping and the studious daughter who respects copyright can't get her homework done. [Note, I'm aware that I'm assigning rather stereotypical gender roles re work and shopping, I hope you will forgive me...] I understand that being cut off wouldn't happen until there's been more than one warning, which would give parents a chance to intervene and son to change his ways but you could still argue that the family as a whole has effectively been warned despite three of them being beyond reproach. I'd also like to tell Mandy that copyright terms of life plus 70 years is helping a select few whilst denying huge amounts of culture to the many and that owning something for 70 years after YOU'RE FRICKIN' DEAD is unlikely to be the spur to activity the government thinks it is. In addition, a next generation that inherits income from copyrighted works actually is disincentivised from getting a job if the income from the copyright is sufficient to support them. The government normally *loathes* people who don't go out to work, but apparently it's fine if your dad happens to have written The Da Vinci Code. > Arstechnica has a good article relating to this today. Those > well-entrenched and profiting from creative works have a 100+ year > history of scaremongering and depriving the public domain what they > agreed to give it in the first place. Are you referring to this one? http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/10/google-book-digitization-prompts-the-eu-to-rethink-copyright.ars If not please send a link as I'd be interested to see it. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] C&binet Forum
On Tue, 2009-10-20 at 16:30 +0100, Bod Notbod wrote: > On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Andrew Turvey > wrote: > > > > Peter Mandelson is a keynote speaker, which could be an important > > opportunity to put the case for public > > domain to a key decision maker. > > > > My question: what should I focus on at this conference and what should I > > aim to get out of it? > > Shoot Peter Mandelson in the head at point blank range wearing a > Wikimedia UK bandana and shout "INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FR!" > > I expect that would get the odd headline here and there. A bit of > publicity for us. > > If you're not keen on a lengthy prison sentence a decent kick in the > balls should get us at least onto page four or five. This may not be a professional approach to Peter Mandelson, but WMUK simply lacks the funds to hire a professional hitman. :-P Can't abolish the *unaccountable* Lords fast enough for me. Although I'm none too happy about rumours the Dark Lord may be exiting that chamber to stand in a safe Labour seat. What is, actually, conspicuously absent from the discussion is whether anyone has a *right* to make a profit on these creative works. Copyright is a social contract; society grants a work's creator(s) a limited duration monopoly to allow them the *opportunity* to make a profit. Arstechnica has a good article relating to this today. Those well-entrenched and profiting from creative works have a 100+ year history of scaremongering and depriving the public domain what they agreed to give it in the first place. -- Brian McNeil Wikinewsie.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] C&binet Forum
2009/10/20 Bod Notbod : > On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Michael Peel wrote: > >> ... or perhaps not. Wikimedia UK is a peaceful organization, as is >> Wikimedia as a whole, and I'm sure that none of our members would >> ever seriously consider doing anything like this. > > The North Korean Chapter has nukes. > > We're way behind in the arms race. > > You have to ask yourself whether you really want the biggest Wikipedia > to be one that requires you to install a non-standard character set. It's standard, just a different standard. I, for one, welcome our new Hangul writing overlords. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Next board meeting: this evening, with a different format
On 20 Oct 2009, at 14:45, Thomas Dalton wrote: > 2009/10/20 Michael Peel : >> I'm not aware of a way to record a Skype conference without requiring >> an external device (i.e. recording the signal to the speaker, rather >> than digitally within the computer); if anyone knows a way to do >> this, then the meetings should definitely be recorded. It remains to >> be seen what the reduction in information in the IRC logs will be - >> the signal to noise should greatly increase, which may offset the >> reduction in time that the logs go on for. > > Ask the WikiVoices (formally Not The Wikipedia Weekly) people how they > do it. They do basically the same thing we want to do. Their HowTo > page talks about Skypecasts, though, which I think means it is out of > date. They have created recent programs, though, so they must have a > new method. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikivoices I know that Seddon participates in this - so I'm sure that he can provide suggestions & hints as appropriate, or ask the others in case of difficulties. Mike ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] C&binet Forum
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Michael Peel wrote: > ... or perhaps not. Wikimedia UK is a peaceful organization, as is > Wikimedia as a whole, and I'm sure that none of our members would > ever seriously consider doing anything like this. The North Korean Chapter has nukes. We're way behind in the arms race. You have to ask yourself whether you really want the biggest Wikipedia to be one that requires you to install a non-standard character set. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] C&binet Forum
2009/10/20 Michael Peel : > ... or perhaps not. Wikimedia UK is a peaceful organization, as is > Wikimedia as a whole, and I'm sure that none of our members would > ever seriously consider doing anything like this. No, hopefully not, but what Bod said was pretty funny (to me at least!) -- Regards, Isabell Long. [[User:Isabell121]] on all public Wikimedia projects. Freenode Community Co-Ordinator - issyl0 on irc.freenode.net PGP Key ID: 0xEB83C2BD (PLEASE NOTE THE CHANGE) ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] C&binet Forum
... or perhaps not. Wikimedia UK is a peaceful organization, as is Wikimedia as a whole, and I'm sure that none of our members would ever seriously consider doing anything like this. Mike On 20 Oct 2009, at 16:30, Bod Notbod wrote: > On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Andrew Turvey > wrote: > > >> Peter Mandelson is a keynote speaker, which could be an important >> opportunity to put the case for public >> domain to a key decision maker. >> >> My question: what should I focus on at this conference and what >> should I aim to get out of it? > > Shoot Peter Mandelson in the head at point blank range wearing a > Wikimedia UK bandana and shout "INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FR!" > > I expect that would get the odd headline here and there. A bit of > publicity for us. > > If you're not keen on a lengthy prison sentence a decent kick in the > balls should get us at least onto page four or five. > > ___ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] C&binet Forum
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Andrew Turvey wrote: > Peter Mandelson is a keynote speaker, which could be an important opportunity > to put the case for public > domain to a key decision maker. > > My question: what should I focus on at this conference and what should I aim > to get out of it? Shoot Peter Mandelson in the head at point blank range wearing a Wikimedia UK bandana and shout "INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FR!" I expect that would get the odd headline here and there. A bit of publicity for us. If you're not keen on a lengthy prison sentence a decent kick in the balls should get us at least onto page four or five. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Next board meeting: this evening, with a different format
2009/10/20 Michael Peel : > I'm not aware of a way to record a Skype conference without requiring > an external device (i.e. recording the signal to the speaker, rather > than digitally within the computer); if anyone knows a way to do > this, then the meetings should definitely be recorded. It remains to > be seen what the reduction in information in the IRC logs will be - > the signal to noise should greatly increase, which may offset the > reduction in time that the logs go on for. Ask the WikiVoices (formally Not The Wikipedia Weekly) people how they do it. They do basically the same thing we want to do. Their HowTo page talks about Skypecasts, though, which I think means it is out of date. They have created recent programs, though, so they must have a new method. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikivoices ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Next board meeting: this evening, with a different format
On 20 Oct 2009, at 14:25, Thomas Dalton wrote: > 2009/10/20 Michael Peel : >> That technical limitation. :-) Also, there are concerns about the >> required connection speed for hosting a multi-way conference like >> this (as I understand it, the calls are all routed through the host >> computer), and also the quality of the connections (I believe this >> degrades as more people are added in?). Additionally, in order to >> join in a conference call, they would need to skype call the person >> hosting the meeting, who would then have to put the conference on >> mute to answer the call and conference them in. That can really slow >> down the conference. > > IRC meetings have gone perfectly smoothly when no-one has remembered > to moderate the channel, so I expect voluntary muting would work. The > call would need to be hosted by someone with a good internet > connection, that is true. People could ask to be added through skype > chat, there is no need for a voice call. That wasn't no-one remembering; as there hasn't been a problem so far, I was choosing not to +m the channel, as it makes things easier if someone loses voice, or we want to ask someone to speak. You're correct in saying that voluntary moderation would probably work. From my experience hosting skype conferences before, a separate call needs to be established, and then that merged into the conference - there's no way to have someone join a conference directly - although that may have changed in the last year or so. >> These may not be problems - in which case we can relax that >> restriction in the future - but for the first attempt, it's logical >> to keep things as simple as possible. The aim here is definitely not >> to exclude people, or become any less transparent, it's to become >> more effective as a board. > > It is worth a try. It will be interesting to see how well it works - > there may be problems with people talking over each other. Will a > recording of the meeting be made public? I would also ask that more > detailed minutes be produced, since there would be searchable IRC logs > to get the detail from. I'm not aware of a way to record a Skype conference without requiring an external device (i.e. recording the signal to the speaker, rather than digitally within the computer); if anyone knows a way to do this, then the meetings should definitely be recorded. It remains to be seen what the reduction in information in the IRC logs will be - the signal to noise should greatly increase, which may offset the reduction in time that the logs go on for. Mike ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Next board meeting: this evening, with a different format
2009/10/20 Michael Peel : > That technical limitation. :-) Also, there are concerns about the > required connection speed for hosting a multi-way conference like > this (as I understand it, the calls are all routed through the host > computer), and also the quality of the connections (I believe this > degrades as more people are added in?). Additionally, in order to > join in a conference call, they would need to skype call the person > hosting the meeting, who would then have to put the conference on > mute to answer the call and conference them in. That can really slow > down the conference. IRC meetings have gone perfectly smoothly when no-one has remembered to moderate the channel, so I expect voluntary muting would work. The call would need to be hosted by someone with a good internet connection, that is true. People could ask to be added through skype chat, there is no need for a voice call. > These may not be problems - in which case we can relax that > restriction in the future - but for the first attempt, it's logical > to keep things as simple as possible. The aim here is definitely not > to exclude people, or become any less transparent, it's to become > more effective as a board. It is worth a try. It will be interesting to see how well it works - there may be problems with people talking over each other. Will a recording of the meeting be made public? I would also ask that more detailed minutes be produced, since there would be searchable IRC logs to get the detail from. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Next board meeting: this evening, with a different format
On 20 Oct 2009, at 12:28, Thomas Dalton wrote: > 2009/10/20 Thomas Dalton : >> 2009/10/20 Michael Peel : >>> The first hour of the meeting, 8.30-9.30pm, will be held by Skype >>> conference. This part of the meeting will be discussions, not >>> decisions, and will essentially be focused on making sure that >>> all of >>> the board members are on the same page, and to identify issues that >>> need resolution or deciding upon. Due to technical limitations, it >>> won't be possible to have this part of the meeting open to the >>> public. >> >> What technical limitations? Skype can handle public voice conferences >> with some people voiced and some just listening. > > I take back that last bit - that required the now discontinued > Skypecast. You'll just have to ask non board members to mute > themselves. That technical limitation. :-) Also, there are concerns about the required connection speed for hosting a multi-way conference like this (as I understand it, the calls are all routed through the host computer), and also the quality of the connections (I believe this degrades as more people are added in?). Additionally, in order to join in a conference call, they would need to skype call the person hosting the meeting, who would then have to put the conference on mute to answer the call and conference them in. That can really slow down the conference. These may not be problems - in which case we can relax that restriction in the future - but for the first attempt, it's logical to keep things as simple as possible. The aim here is definitely not to exclude people, or become any less transparent, it's to become more effective as a board. Mike ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Next board meeting: this evening, with a different format
2009/10/20 Thomas Dalton : > 2009/10/20 Michael Peel : >> The first hour of the meeting, 8.30-9.30pm, will be held by Skype >> conference. This part of the meeting will be discussions, not >> decisions, and will essentially be focused on making sure that all of >> the board members are on the same page, and to identify issues that >> need resolution or deciding upon. Due to technical limitations, it >> won't be possible to have this part of the meeting open to the public. > > What technical limitations? Skype can handle public voice conferences > with some people voiced and some just listening. I take back that last bit - that required the now discontinued Skypecast. You'll just have to ask non board members to mute themselves. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Next board meeting: this evening, with a different format
2009/10/20 Michael Peel : > The first hour of the meeting, 8.30-9.30pm, will be held by Skype > conference. This part of the meeting will be discussions, not > decisions, and will essentially be focused on making sure that all of > the board members are on the same page, and to identify issues that > need resolution or deciding upon. Due to technical limitations, it > won't be possible to have this part of the meeting open to the public. What technical limitations? Skype can handle public voice conferences with some people voiced and some just listening. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
[Wikimediauk-l] Next board meeting: this evening, with a different format
Hi all, The next board meeting is this evening: Tuesday 20 October 2009, 8.30-10.30pm BST. The agenda is at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/2009-10-20/Agenda Following from a conversation at the in-person board meeting, we'll be trying something different this meeting to try to optimize the use of the meeting time. The first hour of the meeting, 8.30-9.30pm, will be held by Skype conference. This part of the meeting will be discussions, not decisions, and will essentially be focused on making sure that all of the board members are on the same page, and to identify issues that need resolution or deciding upon. Due to technical limitations, it won't be possible to have this part of the meeting open to the public. The second hour of the meeting, 9.30-10.30pm, will be held on IRC as usual. This part will focus on decision-making, as well as asking for your views. This will be held as usual in the #wikimedia-uk-board channel on irc.freenode.net, with discussion in #wikimedia-uk , and everyone is more than welcome to attend. If you don't have an IRC client, then you can connect using http://webchat.freenode.net/ . Hopefully with this new format, board meetings will become more efficient - both of board member's time, and also of your time during the second half. This is a trial - we may find that it doesn't work, and return to holding all of the meeting via IRC. I would welcome suggestions both on tweaks to this new format, and also on alternative ways of holding these meetings Thanks, Mike Peel ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
