Re: [Wikimediauk-l] News about the wikis for children
Hi, Here is the text of a contribution to a Janusz Korczak Seminar in Geneva on May 2015 on the topic "Childhood Protection and Participation" It was about Childhood Participation, which is stated in the Convention on the Rights of the Child in words to which the Wikimedia's vision and mission statements are surprisingly close. I hope it can draw the attention especially to Vikidia in English (and Vikidia in Spanish) which, although behind fr and nl, already have some valuable content and a significant audience! Vikidia, an equivalent of Wikipedia for children and the information and participation rights Mathias Damour - contribution to the 7th International Janusz Korczak Seminar in Geneva on May 30, 2015. On the topic Childhood Protection and Participation https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/User:Astirmays/Vikidia,_an_equivalent_of_Wikipedia_for_children_and_the_information_and_participation_rights -- Mathias Damour [[User:Astirmays]] Le 13/02/2015 23:52, Mathias Damour a écrit : May I give you some news on the wiki encyclopedias for children: I have let you know nearly one year ago about the launching of Vikidia in English[1]: Vikidia in English now has 1,445 articles and 32 active users. the advantage in English is that we can pick up, choose, adapt and select some existing material, especially from Simple English Wikipedia, and from Wikijunior. Some of the first users on en.vikidia.org also come from other Vikidia language and it even gather some Dutch teenager from Wikikids.nl. Vikidia was first launched in French and there is a similarly developed counterpart in Dutch : http://wikikids.nl/ . these wikis are 8 and 9 years old now. Vikidia in French has now more than one million unique visitors a month, with a yearly growth of audience of nearly 40 %. It's not a Wikimedia project, yet it is supported by Wikimédia France that now funds our hosting costs. Another wiki encyclopedia for children was recently launched in German, and is supported by Wikimedia Germany. See some English explanation on it here: [2]. There is some quite significant differences between the way each wiki's aims, rules and functioning are designed, which we had the opportunity to discuss between one and another teams/founders. The guestbook on fr.vikidia show that this resource is really appreciated by children (and even older peoples), and that there is a need for such a wiki beside Wikipedia ([3] [4]). Yet nothing can be done but with a significant community, that's why your support (as individual people so as an organisation) really matter ! klexikon.de, which claim to be a content - rather than an educational - wiki for children, directs a great part of its efforts (this is most of the Wikimedia Germany support) on organizing meeting and workshop for wannabe editors (teachers or other - mainly - adults). What about Wikimedia UK supporting something similar? Yet it would demand some peoples to undertake it... One can also begin with one (or some) blog post about this project ? [1] http://blog.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-in-english-opens-today-lets-build-a-children-wiki-encyclopedia-6400 [2] https://zikoblog.wordpress.com/2014/12/23/a-new-wiki-klexikon-the-free-encyclopedia-for-children/ [3] https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Livre_d%27or [4] see also http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=wikibooks%2C%20wikiversity%2C%20vikidia%2C%20wikikids -- Mathias Damour [[User:Astirmays]] ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
[Wikimediauk-l] News about the wikis for children
May I give you some news on the wiki encyclopedias for children: I have let you know nearly one year ago about the launching of Vikidia in English[1]: Vikidia in English now has 1,445 articles and 32 active users. the advantage in English is that we can pick up, choose, adapt and select some existing material, especially from Simple English Wikipedia, and from Wikijunior. Some of the first users on en.vikidia.org also come from other Vikidia language and it even gather some Dutch teenager from Wikikids.nl. Vikidia was first launched in French and there is a similarly developed counterpart in Dutch : http://wikikids.nl/ . these wikis are 8 and 9 years old now. Vikidia in French has now more than one million unique visitors a month, with a yearly growth of audience of nearly 40 %. It's not a Wikimedia project, yet it is supported by Wikimédia France that now funds our hosting costs. Another wiki encyclopedia for children was recently launched in German, and is supported by Wikimedia Germany. See some English explanation on it here: [2]. There is some quite significant differences between the way each wiki's aims, rules and functioning are designed, which we had the opportunity to discuss between one and another teams/founders. The guestbook on fr.vikidia show that this resource is really appreciated by children (and even older peoples), and that there is a need for such a wiki beside Wikipedia ([3] [4]). Yet nothing can be done but with a significant community, that's why your support (as individual people so as an organisation) really matter ! klexikon.de, which claim to be a content - rather than an educational - wiki for children, directs a great part of its efforts (this is most of the Wikimedia Germany support) on organizing meeting and workshop for wannabe editors (teachers or other - mainly - adults). What about Wikimedia UK supporting something similar? Yet it would demand some peoples to undertake it... One can also begin with one (or some) blog post about this project ? [1] http://blog.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-in-english-opens-today-lets-build-a-children-wiki-encyclopedia-6400 [2] https://zikoblog.wordpress.com/2014/12/23/a-new-wiki-klexikon-the-free-encyclopedia-for-children/ [3] https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Livre_d%27or [4] see also http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=wikibooks%2C%20wikiversity%2C%20vikidia%2C%20wikikids -- Mathias Damour 49 rue Carnot F-74000 Annecy 00 (33) 4 57 09 10 56 00 (33) 6 27 13 65 51 https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays mathias.dam...@laposte.net ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimedia Education] Vikidia in English opens today, let's build a children wiki encyclopedia!
Le 05/03/2014 12:13, Gordon Joly a écrit : On 04/03/14 21:56, Mathias Damour wrote: Another usual fear is the possibility that they would be fake kids. Firstly, while there nearly no special assigned roles or privilege that would depend on the age of an editor, which makes fewer reasons to fake it. Then during the several years of existence of Vikidia in French, we didn't have this case. I guess it would be very difficult for someone to pretend to be a child for months if he isn't. Hence, there is a small but finite risk associated? Hence, there would be a small but finite risk that a user would be a fake child. Then children are on the wiki to work together from their homes, or sometimes schools, they are not to meet one another, moreover alone. Vikidia is not, and will probably never be a massive community of editors, most visitors are only readers (about 2000 or more readers to one editor on fr.vikidia) there is some much more massive online communities for children. See: Supporting an Online Community for Kids, by Andrés Monroy-Hernández, Scratch Team at MIT, about the Scratch Online Community. http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/andresmh/2011/11/supporting-an-online-community-for-kids/ -- Mathias Damour 49 rue Carnot F-74000 Annecy 00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56 00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51 mathias.dam...@laposte.net http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimedia Education] Vikidia in English opens today, let's build a children wiki encyclopedia!
Le 28/02/2014 13:51, Craig Franklin a écrit : Hi Mathias, I am curious, what policies does Vikidia have for child protection? While we all hope it will never come up, I would be concerned that a project like this might attract undesirable individuals with less than pure motives for wanting to work with children. There appears to be some wording on the Legal Matters page, but this seems to be concerned primarily with avoiding legal liability rather than protecting children from predators. Hi Craig, We disable the Special:EmailUser function of Medawiki, thus it is not possible to send an e-mail/private message to another user and every discussion is public (unless some use an external tool for it of course such as simply their account on Wikipedia) . Then the tools to deal with inappropriate behaviour are basically the same as in Wikipedia. Likewise we write on the page you mention[1] that Real name, e-mails and identifying informations, if given by young users on their user pages are to be deleted. Another usual fear is the possibility that they would be fake kids. Firstly, while there nearly no special assigned roles or privilege that would depend on the age of an editor, which makes fewer reasons to fake it. Then during the several years of existence of Vikidia in French, we didn't have this case. I guess it would be very difficult for someone to pretend to be a child for months if he isn't. [1] http://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters Thanks, Craig Franklin On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Mathias Damour mathias.dam...@laposte.net mailto:mathias.dam...@laposte.net wrote: We are launching Vikidia in English today ! :-) http://blog.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-in-english-opens-today-lets-build-a-children-wiki-encyclopedia-6400 http://en.vikidia.org I hope you will like it, your comment are welcome, and feel free to spread the message ! -- Mathias Damour 49 rue Carnot F-74000 Annecy 00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56 00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51 mathias.dam...@laposte.net mailto:mathias.dam...@laposte.net http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Education mailing list educat...@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:educat...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk -- Mathias Damour 49 rue Carnot F-74000 Annecy 00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56 00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51 mathias.dam...@laposte.net http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
[Wikimediauk-l] Vikidia in English opens today, let’s build a children wiki encyclopedia!
We are launching Vikidia in English today ! :-) http://blog.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-in-english-opens-today-lets-build-a-children-wiki-encyclopedia-6400 http://en.vikidia.org I hope you will like it, your comment are welcome, and feel free to spread the message ! -- Mathias Damour 49 rue Carnot F-74000 Annecy 00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56 00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51 mathias.dam...@laposte.net http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Launching a Wikipedia for children soon, you may help !
Hi, Le 21/02/2014 18:17, Bod Notbod a écrit : I would be grateful to learn how this Wiki project fits alongside Simple English Wikipedia: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page ...and how the project intends to avoid a situation where well-meaning volunteers find themselves spending a lot of effort doing work that's already been done. Well, we technically aloud users to import articles from both SEWP and Wikijunior (with patroller user group rights, it put the old records of the article in the history) but we don't plan to import all the SEWP (Simple English Wikipedia) article at once. I personally think that we should use it to grow this wiki with some part of the work already done on SEWP nevertheless chosen and adapted one by one. It is obviously an opportunity to grow this wiki faster, to save time in its growth, time to get some readers (and new editors) and as you say to avoid volunteers spending effort doing work that's already been done (and SEWP editor to feel their effort not valued as they could) I don't pretend to have a deep knowledge on SEWP but I tried to check out to which extend its content would fit to such a wiki for children. I think that the articles of SEWP and Wikijunior are uneven in suitability and content (many stubs on minor subjects), which means that we surely should do that with care, so we can watch and discuss what it brings to this wiki, and built a policy on it if needed. I guess the best way to discern if and which articles are suitable to be imported is to practice, and import some of them (which we have begun see http://en.vikidia.org/w/index.php?title=Rhineaction=history ). It will make us able to talk about the quality and suitability of the articles we can find, and other issues. We already felt that articles imported by SEWP had to be worked again for en.vikidia, and that some of them were not to be taken at all. We may choose the articles to import, and then edit and check them just after it. That's still some work but it makes then a good result and faster than if we have to write it from scratch. (Readers on fr.vikidia on the guest-book often say they want more content in the articles.) With some practice, we may have some ideas on how to do that in the best way, be it still slowly and safely, or with some tools/applications to select larger numbers of articles. It may be possible that way to get say 2000 to 1 of the best and most significant articles of SEWP in a few month. It ultimately depends on/pertain to the community of this wiki (both by their work on it and potential consensus against it...) I hope I answered you question ! On 19 February 2014 23:31, Mathias Damour mathias.dam...@laposte.net wrote: Hi, Since I was able and glad to come in EduWiki 2013 in Cardiff, to make a presentation about the Wikikids proposal : https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/EduWiki_Conference_2013/Abstracts#Wikikids_-_Mathias_Damour we have gone forward and we are about to launch Vikidia in English on the 28th of February. It's already open with restricted access, and the early editors mainly come from the other Vikidias and from WikiKids.nl. Nevertheless, I would be glad that Wikimedia UK or some of it's member gets involved and supports this project, (Wikimedia France does), provided that if it makes its way properly, it can have a great impact for our goals. If you want to have a look, it's http://en.vikidia.org and the codes are vikidia and aidikiv We have set up most of the basic/frame pages and we better them before launching the wiki. Here they are : http://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Talk/2014/8 Here is a scratch communiqué/launching message : May you be interested in this project and spread, advice or help it ? * A Vikidia opens today, let's built a children wiki encyclopedia in English ! Vikidia is the equivalent of Wikipedia for children: an online encyclopedic project, for 8-13 year-old readers, open to contributors of any age. It was launched in November 2006 in French, then in Spanish, Italian, Russian and now English. It aims both to offer a suitable corpus of knowledge for children and to let some of them, as well as teenagers them be involved in building it. It is very close to Wikipedia in its aim and functioning, except the age range. Such wikis have proven their sustainability, relevance and success, the two biggest ones this model being Vikidia in French and WikiKids.nl in Dutch, with respectively 16000 and 14000 articles and hundreds of thousand readers every month. Many children already use Wikipedia daily, for the substantial content and the well known convenient way it is to find material on any subject. However, the level of Wikipedia articles makes them hardly accessible for children or even other people on some subjects and they may read it for lack of a better resource. There is some television programs for children, some books, some movies
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Launching a Wikipedia for children soon, you may help !
Le 21/02/2014 21:44, Fæ a écrit : Could someone explain how this fits with past experiences of setting up school-friendly versions of Wikipedia, like http://schools-wikipedia.org? I answered above, see http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediauk-l/2014-February/011827.html Moreover, it's not only a matter of providing content to children but for them to freely share knowledge and empower them to collect and develop educational content under a free license and to disseminate it effectively and globally. (Guess where I picked this up ! ;-) ) There is also the 1989 Convention on the Rights of the Child (signed and ratified by the UK) which states: Article 13 - 1. The child shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive *and impart information* and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of the child's choice. Even if the readers/editors rate is roughtly the same as on Wikipedia (I mean that while Wikikids.nl and fr.vikidia are some reasonable success in audience, they don't gather a massive community of editors. fr.vikidia has 600 000 UV a month, 175 active user a month and about 20 very active of any ages), I can tell that children and teenagers can really appreciate and be proud to be involved in such a project ! -- Mathias Damour 49 rue Carnot F-74000 Annecy 00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56 00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51 mathias.dam...@laposte.net http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Launching a Wikipedia for children soon, you may help !
Le 20/02/2014 12:22, Brian McNeil a écrit : Have you looked at working with the Wikipedia for Schools people? I spoke to them back in 2008[1], but don't have current contacts. Yes, I have met the person in charge of Wikipedia for Schools ( http://schools-wikipedia.org/ ) at EduWiki, he made a presentation just before I did. This project has a significant audience, however they sometimes have some remarks about the content being still too difficult for children. There is not many people working for it, so they can't rewrite each article. Meanwhile, Vikidia may be seen among others as a forge for encyclopedic content for children that may be reuse for a future release version of Wikipedia for Schools, it's some free content anyway ! :-) On Vikidia in french, we have been asked for on offline release, and it's available here : http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Vikidia_hors-connexion [1] https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/2008-09_Wikipedia_for_Schools_goes_online On 2014-02-20 10:56, Richard Nevell wrote: It's an interesting idea. The colours on the main page really stand out, though I wonder how easy it will be for people with colour blindness to read. Has it been tested for that? On 19 February 2014 23:31, Mathias Damour mathias.dam...@laposte.net wrote: Hi, Since I was able and glad to come in EduWiki 2013 in Cardiff, to make a presentation about the Wikikids proposal : https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/EduWiki_Conference_2013/Abstracts#Wikikids_-_Mathias_Damour [1] we have gone forward and we are about to launch Vikidia in English on the 28th of February. It's already open with restricted access, and the early editors mainly come from the other Vikidias and from WikiKids.nl. Nevertheless, I would be glad that Wikimedia UK or some of it's member gets involved and supports this project, (Wikimedia France does), provided that if it makes its way properly, it can have a great impact for our goals. If you want to have a look, it's http://en.vikidia.org [2] and the codes are vikidia and aidikiv We have set up most of the basic/frame pages and we better them before launching the wiki. Here they are : http://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Talk/2014/8 [3] Here is a scratch communiqué/launching message : May you be interested in this project and spread, advice or help it ? * A Vikidia opens today, let's built a children wiki encyclopedia in English ! Vikidia is the equivalent of Wikipedia for children: an online encyclopedic project, for 8-13 year-old readers, open to contributors of any age. It was launched in November 2006 in French, then in Spanish, Italian, Russian and now English. It aims both to offer a suitable corpus of knowledge for children and to let some of them, as well as teenagers them be involved in building it. It is very close to Wikipedia in its aim and functioning, except the age range. Such wikis have proven their sustainability, relevance and success, the two biggest ones this model being Vikidia in French and WikiKids.nl in Dutch, with respectively 16000 and 14000 articles and hundreds of thousand readers every month. Many children already use Wikipedia daily, for the substantial content and the well known convenient way it is to find material on any subject. However, the level of Wikipedia articles makes them hardly accessible for children or even other people on some subjects and they may read it for lack of a better resource. There is some television programs for children, some books, some movies for children and even some newspapers and magazines. It would be unsound to consider that they couldn't make a great use of a children encyclopedia. Many children really need and appreciate when it does exist to have a more readable content for them. They tell it on the French Vikidia guestbook, on which the main remarks are that they like it and that they would like to find more articles and more content in most articles. It is not designed only for children but for everybody who want a simple explanation on a subject. That mean that the content must be suitable for 8-13 years old children, based on the general perception of what is or not considered as possibly offensive for this age range. That also mean that we take each subject seriously in order to build a quality and substantial documentary resource. To offer to some children and teenagers to take part in such a resource and to be active in the building process is also obviously a matter of empowerment. The mere possibility to add something may also change one child's motivation for the content as a reader. Everybody is invited to edit Vikidia without age restrictions. There are no mandatory or forbidden roles or status related to the users real ages. Vikidia both needs grown-up contributions and enable children and teenagers to write and to be involved in building the encyclopedia. Young people can also be involved within educational activities organised
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Launching a Wikipedia for children soon, you may help !
Le 20/02/2014 11:56, Richard Nevell a écrit : It's an interesting idea. The colours on the main page really stand out, though I wonder how easy it will be for people with colour blindness to read. Has it been tested for that? The current colours on the main page were made by a 15 years old user of (mainly) Vikidia in French, we just make it in a wiki way you know ! (Would you believe it can work ? ;-) ) On 19 February 2014 23:31, Mathias Damour mathias.dam...@laposte.net mailto:mathias.dam...@laposte.net wrote: Hi, Since I was able and glad to come in EduWiki 2013 in Cardiff, to make a presentation about the Wikikids proposal : https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/EduWiki_Conference_2013/Abstracts#Wikikids_-_Mathias_Damour we have gone forward and we are about to launch Vikidia in English on the 28th of February. It's already open with restricted access, and the early editors mainly come from the other Vikidias and from WikiKids.nl. Nevertheless, I would be glad that Wikimedia UK or some of it's member gets involved and supports this project, (Wikimedia France does), provided that if it makes its way properly, it can have a great impact for our goals. If you want to have a look, it's http://en.vikidia.org and the codes are vikidia and aidikiv We have set up most of the basic/frame pages and we better them before launching the wiki. Here they are : http://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Talk/2014/8 Here is a scratch communiqué/launching message : May you be interested in this project and spread, advice or help it ? * A Vikidia opens today, let's built a children wiki encyclopedia in English ! Vikidia is the equivalent of Wikipedia for children: an online encyclopedic project, for 8-13 year-old readers, open to contributors of any age. It was launched in November 2006 in French, then in Spanish, Italian, Russian and now English. It aims both to offer a suitable corpus of knowledge for children and to let some of them, as well as teenagers them be involved in building it. It is very close to Wikipedia in its aim and functioning, except the age range. Such wikis have proven their sustainability, relevance and success, the two biggest ones this model being Vikidia in French and WikiKids.nl in Dutch, with respectively 16000 and 14000 articles and hundreds of thousand readers every month. Many children already use Wikipedia daily, for the substantial content and the well known convenient way it is to find material on any subject. However, the level of Wikipedia articles makes them hardly accessible for children or even other people on some subjects and they may read it for lack of a better resource. There is some television programs for children, some books, some movies for children and even some newspapers and magazines. It would be unsound to consider that they couldn't make a great use of a children encyclopedia. Many children really need and appreciate when it does exist to have a more readable content for them. They tell it on the French Vikidia guestbook, on which the main remarks are that they like it and that they would like to find more articles and more content in most articles. It is not designed only for children but for everybody who want a simple explanation on a subject. That mean that the content must be suitable for 8–13 years old children, based on the general perception of what is or not considered as possibly offensive for this age range. That also mean that we take each subject seriously in order to build a quality and substantial documentary resource. To offer to some children and teenagers to take part in such a resource and to be active in the building process is also obviously a matter of empowerment. The mere possibility to add something may also change one child's motivation for the content as a reader. Everybody is invited to edit Vikidia without age restrictions. There are no mandatory or forbidden roles or status related to the users real ages. Vikidia both needs grown-up contributions and enable children and teenagers to write and to be involved in building the encyclopedia. Young people can also be involved within educational activities organised by schools. They may gain some digital/media literacy by learning about the functioning of a resource they will use extensively few years later: Wikipedia, although the goal is still to create content an the knowledge resource benefit of such a project: school projects are welcomed provided they consider the wiki's rules and content objectives. - Adults involvement is essential for building content that is of quality and significance, fostering basic maintenance: to watch and ensure
[Wikimediauk-l] Launching a Wikipedia for children soon, you may help !
Wikikids project. They no longer ask for it and decided to remain it independent from the Wikimedia Foundation and now to open a Vikidia in English. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Vikidia%27s_withdrawal_of_the_adoption_proposal Vikidia is handled by the Association Vikidia, located in France, a non-profit-organization. The servers are hosted by Tuxfamily, a non-profit-organization that host free softwares and free content projects. Vikidia is free according to the principle of Free Knowledge. The general license used is CC-BY-SA. Vikidia especially implements and complies with the articles 12, 13 and 17 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child. http://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Relation_to_the_Rights_of_the_Child -- Mathias Damour 49 rue Carnot F-74000 Annecy 00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56 00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51 mathias.dam...@laposte.net http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
