Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 4:16 AM, Gordon Joly wrote: > On 27/07/2011 10:57, Thomas Morton wrote: > > > > Just one question; why 2014? 2013 isn't bid until the end of this > > year, if I am reading it correctly, so we still have a decent amount > > of time to put together a bid for that...? No rush of course, just > > wondering on the reason :) > > > > Tom > That is six months away. From nothing to a cogent bid? An in August > (contacting certain agencies will be slower for the next few weeks) > We wrote the DC bid for 2012 in the space of about a month and a half at the beginning of this year. You don't actually need everything 100% in place for the bid, you just need a good proposal and if you have a team of volunteers that want to take this upon themselves, dedicating time to it, it is not going to take anywhere close to 6 months to write the bid. Alex ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
On 27/07/2011 10:57, Thomas Morton wrote: > > Just one question; why 2014? 2013 isn't bid until the end of this > year, if I am reading it correctly, so we still have a decent amount > of time to put together a bid for that...? No rush of course, just > wondering on the reason :) > > Tom That is six months away. From nothing to a cogent bid? An in August (contacting certain agencies will be slower for the next few weeks) Gordo -- Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com http://www.joly.org.uk/ Don't Leave Space To The Professionals! ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
On 27 July 2011 13:11, Michael Peel wrote: > I'm 100% sure that the chapter would part-fund a UK wikimania - but it would > need to be in conjunction with external sponsors. The money would come from > the appropriate year's budget, though, not the current one (which covers > spending between 1 Feb 2011 and end Jan 2012). Funding to support the > creation of the bid over the next 6 months (e.g. travel to meet potential > sponsors, scout out venues, etc.) would fall under the current budget, if > this would be of use. I disagree. Something as big as Wikimania should be saved up for. The first step in putting together a bid would be working out a rough budget, including costs during the bidding process. You can then work out how much of that it is reasonable to pay out of general chapter funds and how much we need to fundraise specifically for (most likely through corporate sponsorship, although there are a few other options). The bit we're going to pay for out of chapter funds can then be saved up for over several financial years. The current underspend could be re-allocated to be the first installment if the board wished to do that. The one big problem with this is what happens if we have an unsuccessful bid. I think we would need to take steps to ensure that doesn't happen. At the very least, we can talk to other European chapters and make sure there are no competing European bids by getting them to support our bid (that could be anything from a letter of support to a pledge to contribute £X). Less formally, we can start letting people know of our intention to bid (maybe even handing out leaflets and badges and things at Wikimania 2012) and try to get people to view 2014 as our year even before the bidding starts. I know it's not exactly in the spirit of the thing to go out of our way to avoid any real competition in the bidding process, but with such a short timescale from the winning bid being announced to the conference starting, we don't have much choice if we want a large amount of corporate funding. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
On 27/07/2011 11:38, WereSpielChequers wrote: > Another reason is that holding back and not bidding for 2013 would > give us time to develop a Wikimania team by getting them involved in > helping make 2012 and 2013 successful. Good plan. We can also have a look at previous bids that failed. BTW, I was at Wikimania in Frankfurt (and no other Wikimania). Gordo -- Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com http://www.joly.org.uk/ Don't Leave Space To The Professionals! ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
We will shortly be starting the process of developing the WMUK Budget for 2012. In particular, we need an outline "Activity Plan" for 2012 by 1 October. Obviously we are keen to get community input into this process - more details on this soon - but there will certainly be an opportunity to shout and say "I think we should spend £40k on Wikimania bid!" Chris On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 1:24 PM, Thomas Morton wrote: > Apparently there was a 2010 bid to host it in Oxford as well: > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/Oxford which got > shortlisted to the final three. > > Tom > > ___ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org > > ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
Apparently there was a 2010 bid to host it in Oxford as well: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/Oxford which got shortlisted to the final three. Tom ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
> > The money would come from the appropriate year's budget, though, not the > current one (which covers spending between 1 Feb 2011 and end Jan 2012). > Oh, of course, however any spare money from the underspend will carry over to the next budgets - was just suggesting this could be a future outlet for it if we are still racking brains for what to do with it :) There seems no harm in earmarking a potential Wikimania fund now and putting underspend in it by agreement. > BTW, Seddon started a draft bid page for 2013 in Manchester, which is at: > http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Wikimania_Bid > that might form a useful basis to start developing an official bid, either > for 2013 or later. > Looks interesting; Manchester is a nice city & fairly accessible. It would be good to put together ideas for venues and assess the relative benefits of each of them (i.e. costs, accessibility, local wikipedians). Tom ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
On 27 Jul 2011, at 13:04, Thomas Morton wrote: > It will take at least a year to put together a good bid, especially if > we want to line up sponsors in advance of the bidding. (If we put a > large budget in the bid with no evidence that we'll be able to fund > it, we don't stand a chance. If we try to do a low-budget conference > in the UK, we'll end up putting most of our effort into keeping costs > down rather than running a good conference.) > > > All those reasons seem sensible :) > > In terms of money/cost - is this where WMUK could earmark some of the > underspend? I'm 100% sure that the chapter would part-fund a UK wikimania - but it would need to be in conjunction with external sponsors. The money would come from the appropriate year's budget, though, not the current one (which covers spending between 1 Feb 2011 and end Jan 2012). Funding to support the creation of the bid over the next 6 months (e.g. travel to meet potential sponsors, scout out venues, etc.) would fall under the current budget, if this would be of use. BTW, Seddon started a draft bid page for 2013 in Manchester, which is at: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Wikimania_Bid that might form a useful basis to start developing an official bid, either for 2013 or later. Thanks, Mike ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
> > It will take at least a year to put together a good bid, especially if > we want to line up sponsors in advance of the bidding. (If we put a > large budget in the bid with no evidence that we'll be able to fund > it, we don't stand a chance. If we try to do a low-budget conference > in the UK, we'll end up putting most of our effort into keeping costs > down rather than running a good conference.) > All those reasons seem sensible :) In terms of money/cost - is this where WMUK could earmark some of the underspend? Tom ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
On 27 July 2011 10:57, Thomas Morton wrote: > Just one question; why 2014? 2013 isn't bid until the end of this year, if I > am reading it correctly, so we still have a decent amount of time to put > together a bid for that...? No rush of course, just wondering on the reason > :) It will take at least a year to put together a good bid, especially if we want to line up sponsors in advance of the bidding. (If we put a large budget in the bid with no evidence that we'll be able to fund it, we don't stand a chance. If we try to do a low-budget conference in the UK, we'll end up putting most of our effort into keeping costs down rather than running a good conference.) ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
Re: > Just one question; why 2014? 2013 isn't bid until the end of this year, if I > am reading it correctly, so we still have a decent amount of time to put > together a bid for that...? No rush of course, just wondering on the reason > :) There are a several reasons why I would prefer that we did not bid for 2013. The first is geography, if you hold to the view that Wikimania should move around the globe, then whilst the UK is a longhaul flight from Washington DC it really isn't that far from either Haifa or Gdansk. I'm a supporter of the view that each Wikimania should be a longhaul flight from either of the last two, so I'd feel a tad hypocritical if I argued that the UK should be an exception. Though I concede that some of the 9 current bids for 2013 are a medium haul flight from Haifa or DC. Another reason is that holding back and not bidding for 2013 would give us time to develop a Wikimania team by getting them involved in helping make 2012 and 2013 successful. Of course if there were already a team of enthusiastic UK Wikimania organisers in place then I wouldn't want to discourage them. But I haven't noticed a huge rush on this list of people wanting to organise things. And both http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Bids/United Kingdom and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2014/Bids/United Kingdom are currently redlinks. But there are 9 bluelinks for 2013 so far, and some of those potential bids are quite advanced. WSC On 27 July 2011 10:57, Thomas Morton wrote: >> My two cents would be that the big events should not be allowed to drive >> out the more grassrootsy things. >> > > ^^ This. On the other hand - hosting Wikimania might a) raise the profile of > Wikimania UK in non-Wikimedia circles (i.e. lead to more grass roots > opportunity) and b) be an opportunity/platform to launch/integrate more > grass roots projects. In fact it could be an integral part of the pitch - > and we could incorporate (perhaps) some of the GLAM opportunities (and other > related ideas) into the full event. > I think a Wikimania bid is a great idea for WM-UK, and I'd be happy to help > out with it! > Just one question; why 2014? 2013 isn't bid until the end of this year, if I > am reading it correctly, so we still have a decent amount of time to put > together a bid for that...? No rush of course, just wondering on the reason > :) > Tom > ___ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org > > ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
> > My two cents would be that the big events should not be allowed to drive > out the more grassrootsy things. > > ^^ This. On the other hand - hosting Wikimania might a) raise the profile of Wikimania UK in non-Wikimedia circles (i.e. lead to more grass roots opportunity) and b) be an opportunity/platform to launch/integrate more grass roots projects. In fact it could be an integral part of the pitch - and we could incorporate (perhaps) some of the GLAM opportunities (and other related ideas) into the full event. I think a Wikimania bid is a great idea for WM-UK, and I'd be happy to help out with it! Just one question; why 2014? 2013 isn't bid until the end of this year, if I am reading it correctly, so we still have a decent amount of time to put together a bid for that...? No rush of course, just wondering on the reason :) Tom ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
On 26/07/2011 18:03, Thomas Dalton wrote: > On 26 July 2011 16:47, WereSpielChequers wrote: >> I rather fear that hosting Wikimania is a bit like the Olympics or the >> Eurovision song contest, a dubious honour that saps more from the host >> organisation than it generates. That said if there are a keen group of >> people who want to organise a UK Wikimania I have no objection to it >> being here in 2014 or 2015. > There may be some truth in that. I think if we're going to host it > here we need the chapter to play a major role in the more tedious > parts of the organisation and implementation. My two cents would be that the big events should not be allowed to drive out the more grassrootsy things. Charles ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
Looks like work has started... for example in Sydney. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2014/Bids/Sydney And here is the checklist http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania/checklist Gordo On 26/07/2011 16:47, WereSpielChequers wrote: > I rather fear that hosting Wikimania is a bit like the Olympics or the > Eurovision song contest, a dubious honour that saps more from the host > organisation than it generates. That said if there are a keen group of > people who want to organise a UK Wikimania I have no objection to it > being here in 2014 or 2015. > > Better still we should encourage those who want to organise a UK > Wikimania to get involved in the team running DC in 2012 and/or help > Manila or whoever gets 2013 (by 2013 we really should be taking > Wikimania back to the far East rather than yet another event at this > end of Eurasia). > > II think that a UK bid for 2014 or 2015 would be much more impressive > if the bidders included people who'd played key roles in making 2012 > and 2013 a success. If the UK was to fund flights and accommodation > for UK Wikimanians who made those events a success then I'd consider > that money well spent. > > One criticism of the Wikimania process is that it involves reinventing > the wheel, so a bid for 2014 that included "accommodation booking will > be organised using the same software as 2012 run by the UK 2014 bid > member who is currently running it for 2013" or "scheduling team > includes * who has been a full participant in program scheduling > for 2013" would impress me and I hope others. > > Another feature of some Wikimanias has been linguistic diversity and > even a non-English channel in the program. Now we could try for that, > perhaps with a collaboration with Wikipedia France. But I'd prefer a > more global approach - perhaps with skype channels and translation on > demand so that we or the Foundation provide scholarships for people > who speak a wide range of languages and can then offer skype channels > in various languages based on demand from Wikipedians around the > globe. > > Regards > > WereSpielChequers > > > On 25 July 2011 14:22, Gordon Joly wrote: >> On 24/07/2011 16:11, Christopher Cooper wrote: >> In the longer-term, the chapter would benefit greatly if the UK hosted the conference, of which it has not yet done so. >> Ah, yes, that old chestnut >> >> Gordo >> >> >> -- >> >> Gordon Joly >> gordon.j...@pobox.com >> http://www.joly.org.uk/ >> Don't Leave Space To The Professionals! > ___ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org > > -- Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com http://www.joly.org.uk/ Don't Leave Space To The Professionals! ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
On 26 July 2011 16:47, WereSpielChequers wrote: > I rather fear that hosting Wikimania is a bit like the Olympics or the > Eurovision song contest, a dubious honour that saps more from the host > organisation than it generates. That said if there are a keen group of > people who want to organise a UK Wikimania I have no objection to it > being here in 2014 or 2015. There may be some truth in that. I think if we're going to host it here we need the chapter to play a major role in the more tedious parts of the organisation and implementation. The new board has put hiring an events manager on the back burner for now, but as long as that isn't delayed too much (that may depend on the views of the new chief exec) they should be able to do a lot of the work. If volunteers only had to do the interesting stuff, the whole thing would work a lot better. Some kind of organising committee can make all the big decisions about how things should be and then staff can go away and actually do them. Obviously, having lots of things done by staff rather than volunteers would significantly increase the cost. However, simply having it in the UK means it will be much more expensive than usual (although DC isn't a cheap city, so it will be interesting to see what they do). It's long been my view that if we're going to host Wikimania in the UK, we need to embrace the idea of it being really expensive and go all out to hold the biggest and best conference we've ever had. If we do that, then we need to start by finding sponsorship. We would need to find one or two big sponsors willing the throw 6-figure sums at the event. I think such sponsors could be found (people really do love Wikipedia!), but it would take a lot of work and we would need to start very soon if we were going to be ready for 2014. > Better still we should encourage those who want to organise a UK > Wikimania to get involved in the team running DC in 2012 and/or help > Manila or whoever gets 2013 (by 2013 we really should be taking > Wikimania back to the far East rather than yet another event at this > end of Eurasia). That would be good. The chapter having organised lots of large conferences for other things would also look good and that's going to be the case anyway (there have already been a few). > Another feature of some Wikimanias has been linguistic diversity and > even a non-English channel in the program. Now we could try for that, > perhaps with a collaboration with Wikipedia France. But I'd prefer a > more global approach - perhaps with skype channels and translation on > demand so that we or the Foundation provide scholarships for people > who speak a wide range of languages and can then offer skype channels > in various languages based on demand from Wikipedians around the > globe. When Wikimania was in Argentina they had real-time translation between English and Spanish. If we could do the same for two or three languages (plus English) that would be good. I'm not sure what that would cost or whether we could get discounts, but it ought to be achievable. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wikimania-l] hosting it in the UK - was Some statistics about Wikimania 2011
I rather fear that hosting Wikimania is a bit like the Olympics or the Eurovision song contest, a dubious honour that saps more from the host organisation than it generates. That said if there are a keen group of people who want to organise a UK Wikimania I have no objection to it being here in 2014 or 2015. Better still we should encourage those who want to organise a UK Wikimania to get involved in the team running DC in 2012 and/or help Manila or whoever gets 2013 (by 2013 we really should be taking Wikimania back to the far East rather than yet another event at this end of Eurasia). II think that a UK bid for 2014 or 2015 would be much more impressive if the bidders included people who'd played key roles in making 2012 and 2013 a success. If the UK was to fund flights and accommodation for UK Wikimanians who made those events a success then I'd consider that money well spent. One criticism of the Wikimania process is that it involves reinventing the wheel, so a bid for 2014 that included "accommodation booking will be organised using the same software as 2012 run by the UK 2014 bid member who is currently running it for 2013" or "scheduling team includes * who has been a full participant in program scheduling for 2013" would impress me and I hope others. Another feature of some Wikimanias has been linguistic diversity and even a non-English channel in the program. Now we could try for that, perhaps with a collaboration with Wikipedia France. But I'd prefer a more global approach - perhaps with skype channels and translation on demand so that we or the Foundation provide scholarships for people who speak a wide range of languages and can then offer skype channels in various languages based on demand from Wikipedians around the globe. Regards WereSpielChequers On 25 July 2011 14:22, Gordon Joly wrote: > On 24/07/2011 16:11, Christopher Cooper wrote: > >>> In the longer-term, the chapter would benefit greatly if the UK >>> hosted the conference, of which it has not yet done so. > > Ah, yes, that old chestnut > > Gordo > > > -- > > Gordon Joly > gordon.j...@pobox.com > http://www.joly.org.uk/ > Don't Leave Space To The Professionals! ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
