Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-21 Thread Richard Nevell 
Adam, let's go with the Kobo and 2x £10 Amazon vouchers.

Richard


On 21 November 2013 01:53, Adam Morgan  wrote:

> Several replies here:-
>
> On 20 November 2013 10:37:44, Richard Nevell  wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > I like your idea of the e-reader - a Kobo seems a good choice - and
> perhaps
> > preferable to Amazon vouchers. If we scale down from an ereader for the
> > overall winner, smaller prizes for the best of the week sounds like a
> nice
> > idea. I'm not sure what thiese could be though, assuming that is a
> category
> > which goes ahead.
>
> I've reduced the whole period to a fortnight (partly because I am not
> going to have time for this closer to Christmas) so that's only two weeks.
>  If we exempt the overall winner from winning the vouchers, that will mean
> two runner-up prizes of vouchers: one for the first week and one for the
> second.  I'm not sure what value of voucher would be best but, say, £10
> each?
>
>
> Can I go ahead and announce that WMUK will provide a Kobo and two Amazon
> vouchers? (About £70 worth of prizes in total.)
>
>
> There's only a few days left now.  If we do this again, I will sort this
> out properly with much more notice.
>
>
> On 20 November 2013 11:37:32, Craig Franklin  wikimedia.org.au> wrote:
>
> > But, I'm still not seeing any strategy for promoting this to the wider
> > community.  As it is, as far as I can tell the only entrants will be
> > Wikisource regulars and maybe curious people poached from other WM
> > projects.  If there was a strategy for pitching this to the general
> public
> > as a recruitment drive I could see a link to movement goals which might
> > justify spending money, but I don't see that this is a focus.  The
> > excitement of the tenth anniversary shouldn't lead to us spending money
> > without first having a good business plan and justification.
>
> I would like it to draw in new people, and I've tried to find texts that
> should be easy to proofread over a range of different types and subjects to
> facilitate that at one end.
>
> The contest will also be a useful learning experience.  I don't know about
> anything similar on Wikisource.  The English subdomain 10th anniversary is
> in 2015 and a Welsh contest might be practical in the near future too.
>
> Of course, people can't take part if they don't know about it.  I don't
> have many ways to promote this outside Wikisource but...
>
>
> On 20 November 2013 12:51:42, Charles Matthews  ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > > As far as drawing people in is concerned, a central notice for Wiki
> Loves
> > > Monuments worked well and involved a lot of people who had never
> uploaded
> > > photos before. Would that be worth considering here?
> >
> > Yes: given the "I would never have considered looking on Wikisource"
> > comment which is fairly standard, on other sister projects, it would make
> > sense.
>
> I agree, this would help a lot.
>
> I believe the instigators of this contest are going to try to advertise
> this as well.  I will do what I can.
>
> - Adam
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
>
>


-- 
Richard Nevell
Wikimedia UK
+44 (0) 20 7065 0753

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
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[Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-20 Thread Adam Morgan 
Several replies here:-

On 20 November 2013 10:37:44, Richard Nevell  wrote:

> I like your idea of the e-reader - a Kobo seems a good choice - and
perhaps
> preferable to Amazon vouchers. If we scale down from an ereader for the
> overall winner, smaller prizes for the best of the week sounds like a nice
> idea. I'm not sure what thiese could be though, assuming that is a
category
> which goes ahead.

I've reduced the whole period to a fortnight (partly because I am not going
to have time for this closer to Christmas) so that's only two weeks.  If we
exempt the overall winner from winning the vouchers, that will mean two
runner-up prizes of vouchers: one for the first week and one for the
second.  I'm not sure what value of voucher would be best but, say, £10
each?


Can I go ahead and announce that WMUK will provide a Kobo and two Amazon
vouchers? (About £70 worth of prizes in total.)


There's only a few days left now.  If we do this again, I will sort this
out properly with much more notice.


On 20 November 2013 11:37:32, Craig Franklin 
wrote:

> But, I'm still not seeing any strategy for promoting this to the wider
> community.  As it is, as far as I can tell the only entrants will be
> Wikisource regulars and maybe curious people poached from other WM
> projects.  If there was a strategy for pitching this to the general public
> as a recruitment drive I could see a link to movement goals which might
> justify spending money, but I don't see that this is a focus.  The
> excitement of the tenth anniversary shouldn't lead to us spending money
> without first having a good business plan and justification.

I would like it to draw in new people, and I've tried to find texts that
should be easy to proofread over a range of different types and subjects to
facilitate that at one end.

The contest will also be a useful learning experience.  I don't know about
anything similar on Wikisource.  The English subdomain 10th anniversary is
in 2015 and a Welsh contest might be practical in the near future too.

Of course, people can't take part if they don't know about it.  I don't
have many ways to promote this outside Wikisource but...


On 20 November 2013 12:51:42, Charles Matthews  wrote:

> > As far as drawing people in is concerned, a central notice for Wiki
Loves
> > Monuments worked well and involved a lot of people who had never
uploaded
> > photos before. Would that be worth considering here?
>
> Yes: given the "I would never have considered looking on Wikisource"
> comment which is fairly standard, on other sister projects, it would make
> sense.

I agree, this would help a lot.

I believe the instigators of this contest are going to try to advertise
this as well.  I will do what I can.

- Adam
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-20 Thread Charles Matthews 
On 20 November 2013 12:36, Richard Nevell
wrote:
>
>
> As far as drawing people in is concerned, a central notice for Wiki Loves
> Monuments worked well and involved a lot of people who had never uploaded
> photos before. Would that be worth considering here?
>
> Yes: given the "I would never have considered looking on Wikisource"
comment which is fairly standard, on other sister projects, it would make
sense.

Twitter, obviously.

Charles
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-20 Thread Richard Nevell 
In the UK ereaders are about £50, which isn't too expensive, but is a
reasonable value for a prize. Amazon vouchers are more flexible though.

As far as drawing people in is concerned, a central notice for Wiki Loves
Monuments worked well and involved a lot of people who had never uploaded
photos before. Would that be worth considering here?

Richard


On 20 November 2013 11:37, Craig Franklin wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am the person referred to earlier that suggested offering a number of
> smaller prizes rather than one big prize, and suggesting that an eReader is
> probably not a great offering in this circumstance.  This was in the
> context of WMAU fundinga prize for the competition.  The full posting is
> here:
>
>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaau-l/2013-November/003874.html
>
> I don't know about the UK, but I know that in Australia anyone that wants
> an eReader can get one cheaply at a discount department store.  I think it
> would be far more effective an incentive to give out gift certificates
> instead, that way the winner can spend them on whatever they like.
>
> But, I'm still not seeing any strategy for promoting this to the wider
> community.  As it is, as far as I can tell the only entrants will be
> Wikisource regulars and maybe curious people poached from other WM
> projects.  If there was a strategy for pitching this to the general public
> as a recruitment drive I could see a link to movement goals which might
> justify spending money, but I don't see that this is a focus.  The
> excitement of the tenth anniversary shouldn't lead to us spending money
> without first having a good business plan and justification.
>
> Cheers,
> Craig
>
>
> On 20 November 2013 20:37, Richard Nevell  > wrote:
>
>> I like your idea of the e-reader - a Kobo seems a good choice - and
>> perhaps preferable to Amazon vouchers. If we scale down from an ereader for
>> the overall winner, smaller prizes for the best of the week sounds like a
>> nice idea. I'm not sure what thiese could be though, assuming that is a
>> category which goes ahead.
>>
>> In terms of promoting the competition, WMUK has a blog and a Facebook
>> page where it can be mentioned. Other chapters might pick up the Facebook
>> post and share it.
>>
>>
>>  On 18 November 2013 21:13, Adam Morgan  wrote:
>>
>>>  On 11 November 2013 at 12:45:31 Richard Nevell <
>>> richard.nev...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi everyone,
>>> >
>>> > If there are volunteers interested in taking the lead on this,
>>> Wikimedia UK
>>> > are prepared to provide prize(s) and people outside the UK would be
>>> > eligible.
>>> >
>>> > It's encouraging to see discussion about how to make the competition
>>> work.
>>> >
>>> > Richard
>>>
>>> Well, I have a rough page set up for this at Wikisource:-
>>>
>>> http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Tenth_Anniversary_Contest
>>>
>>> I just need to know what Wikimedia UK is expecting here and what I
>>> should write for the prize(s) information.
>>>
>>> The initial idea was to award an e-reader to the winner (one that can
>>> read EPUBs, like a Kobo, which Wikisource produces directly).  On the
>>> Wikisource mailing list some have said that this will put off entrants
>>> because those that lag behind, or don't join on, the first day have no
>>> incentive to continue.  Amazon vouchers were suggested.  There are
>>> possibilities for alternative prizes on top of just the straight winner
>>> (such as best in day/week, best on a particular text, etc).
>>>
>>> So, what sort of prizes does WMUK have in mind and are there any
>>> opinions on the prize-winning system (which does depend on the number of
>>> prizes).
>>>
>>> Also, is there anything WMUK can do to help promote this?
>>>
>>> The contest is supposed to start this Sunday (the project launched on 24
>>> Nov 2003).
>>>
>>> Some extra notes: This is, again, a bit late notice and arranged in a
>>> hurry.  I think it will work but, if nothing else, it will at least provide
>>> experience for any later competitions (such as the 2015 en.wsanniversary).  
>>> The original idea was for just a week-long contest;
>>> currently I've set it for a full month but I'm thinking of splitting the
>>> difference at a fortnight. I've arranged for ten texts to form the
>>> competition, covering a few different areas and interests; most were
>>> already on Wikisource to start with but remain unfinished or unstarted.
>>>  I've added some very basic guidance to the page, hopefully this makes
>>> sense to non-Wikisourcers but I would appreciate someone checking it.
>>>
>>> - Adam
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>>> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>>> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Richard Nevell
>> Wikimedia UK
>> +44 (0) 20 7065 0753
>>
>> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
>> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Regist

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-20 Thread Craig Franklin 
Hi,

I am the person referred to earlier that suggested offering a number of
smaller prizes rather than one big prize, and suggesting that an eReader is
probably not a great offering in this circumstance.  This was in the
context of WMAU fundinga prize for the competition.  The full posting is
here:

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaau-l/2013-November/003874.html

I don't know about the UK, but I know that in Australia anyone that wants
an eReader can get one cheaply at a discount department store.  I think it
would be far more effective an incentive to give out gift certificates
instead, that way the winner can spend them on whatever they like.

But, I'm still not seeing any strategy for promoting this to the wider
community.  As it is, as far as I can tell the only entrants will be
Wikisource regulars and maybe curious people poached from other WM
projects.  If there was a strategy for pitching this to the general public
as a recruitment drive I could see a link to movement goals which might
justify spending money, but I don't see that this is a focus.  The
excitement of the tenth anniversary shouldn't lead to us spending money
without first having a good business plan and justification.

Cheers,
Craig


On 20 November 2013 20:37, Richard Nevell
wrote:

> I like your idea of the e-reader - a Kobo seems a good choice - and
> perhaps preferable to Amazon vouchers. If we scale down from an ereader for
> the overall winner, smaller prizes for the best of the week sounds like a
> nice idea. I'm not sure what thiese could be though, assuming that is a
> category which goes ahead.
>
> In terms of promoting the competition, WMUK has a blog and a Facebook page
> where it can be mentioned. Other chapters might pick up the Facebook post
> and share it.
>
>
> On 18 November 2013 21:13, Adam Morgan  wrote:
>
>> On 11 November 2013 at 12:45:31 Richard Nevell <
>> richard.nev...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi everyone,
>> >
>> > If there are volunteers interested in taking the lead on this,
>> Wikimedia UK
>> > are prepared to provide prize(s) and people outside the UK would be
>> > eligible.
>> >
>> > It's encouraging to see discussion about how to make the competition
>> work.
>> >
>> > Richard
>>
>> Well, I have a rough page set up for this at Wikisource:-
>>
>> http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Tenth_Anniversary_Contest
>>
>> I just need to know what Wikimedia UK is expecting here and what I should
>> write for the prize(s) information.
>>
>> The initial idea was to award an e-reader to the winner (one that can
>> read EPUBs, like a Kobo, which Wikisource produces directly).  On the
>> Wikisource mailing list some have said that this will put off entrants
>> because those that lag behind, or don't join on, the first day have no
>> incentive to continue.  Amazon vouchers were suggested.  There are
>> possibilities for alternative prizes on top of just the straight winner
>> (such as best in day/week, best on a particular text, etc).
>>
>> So, what sort of prizes does WMUK have in mind and are there any opinions
>> on the prize-winning system (which does depend on the number of prizes).
>>
>> Also, is there anything WMUK can do to help promote this?
>>
>> The contest is supposed to start this Sunday (the project launched on 24
>> Nov 2003).
>>
>> Some extra notes: This is, again, a bit late notice and arranged in a
>> hurry.  I think it will work but, if nothing else, it will at least provide
>> experience for any later competitions (such as the 2015 en.wsanniversary).  
>> The original idea was for just a week-long contest;
>> currently I've set it for a full month but I'm thinking of splitting the
>> difference at a fortnight. I've arranged for ten texts to form the
>> competition, covering a few different areas and interests; most were
>> already on Wikisource to start with but remain unfinished or unstarted.
>>  I've added some very basic guidance to the page, hopefully this makes
>> sense to non-Wikisourcers but I would appreciate someone checking it.
>>
>> - Adam
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Richard Nevell
> Wikimedia UK
> +44 (0) 20 7065 0753
>
> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
> United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
>
> *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
> over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-20 Thread Richard Nevell 
I like your idea of the e-reader - a Kobo seems a good choice - and perhaps
preferable to Amazon vouchers. If we scale down from an ereader for the
overall winner, smaller prizes for the best of the week sounds like a nice
idea. I'm not sure what thiese could be though, assuming that is a category
which goes ahead.

In terms of promoting the competition, WMUK has a blog and a Facebook page
where it can be mentioned. Other chapters might pick up the Facebook post
and share it.


On 18 November 2013 21:13, Adam Morgan  wrote:

> On 11 November 2013 at 12:45:31 Richard Nevell <
> richard.nev...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > If there are volunteers interested in taking the lead on this,
> Wikimedia UK
> > are prepared to provide prize(s) and people outside the UK would be
> > eligible.
> >
> > It's encouraging to see discussion about how to make the competition
> work.
> >
> > Richard
>
> Well, I have a rough page set up for this at Wikisource:-
>
> http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Tenth_Anniversary_Contest
>
> I just need to know what Wikimedia UK is expecting here and what I should
> write for the prize(s) information.
>
> The initial idea was to award an e-reader to the winner (one that can read
> EPUBs, like a Kobo, which Wikisource produces directly).  On the Wikisource
> mailing list some have said that this will put off entrants because those
> that lag behind, or don't join on, the first day have no incentive to
> continue.  Amazon vouchers were suggested.  There are possibilities for
> alternative prizes on top of just the straight winner (such as best in
> day/week, best on a particular text, etc).
>
> So, what sort of prizes does WMUK have in mind and are there any opinions
> on the prize-winning system (which does depend on the number of prizes).
>
> Also, is there anything WMUK can do to help promote this?
>
> The contest is supposed to start this Sunday (the project launched on 24
> Nov 2003).
>
> Some extra notes: This is, again, a bit late notice and arranged in a
> hurry.  I think it will work but, if nothing else, it will at least provide
> experience for any later competitions (such as the 2015 en.wsanniversary).  
> The original idea was for just a week-long contest;
> currently I've set it for a full month but I'm thinking of splitting the
> difference at a fortnight. I've arranged for ten texts to form the
> competition, covering a few different areas and interests; most were
> already on Wikisource to start with but remain unfinished or unstarted.
>  I've added some very basic guidance to the page, hopefully this makes
> sense to non-Wikisourcers but I would appreciate someone checking it.
>
> - Adam
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
>
>


-- 
Richard Nevell
Wikimedia UK
+44 (0) 20 7065 0753

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
___
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wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
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[Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-18 Thread Adam Morgan 
On 11 November 2013 at 12:45:31 Richard Nevell <
richard.nev...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> If there are volunteers interested in taking the lead on this, Wikimedia
UK
> are prepared to provide prize(s) and people outside the UK would be
> eligible.
>
> It's encouraging to see discussion about how to make the competition work.
>
> Richard

Well, I have a rough page set up for this at Wikisource:-

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Tenth_Anniversary_Contest

I just need to know what Wikimedia UK is expecting here and what I should
write for the prize(s) information.

The initial idea was to award an e-reader to the winner (one that can read
EPUBs, like a Kobo, which Wikisource produces directly).  On the Wikisource
mailing list some have said that this will put off entrants because those
that lag behind, or don't join on, the first day have no incentive to
continue.  Amazon vouchers were suggested.  There are possibilities for
alternative prizes on top of just the straight winner (such as best in
day/week, best on a particular text, etc).

So, what sort of prizes does WMUK have in mind and are there any opinions
on the prize-winning system (which does depend on the number of prizes).

Also, is there anything WMUK can do to help promote this?

The contest is supposed to start this Sunday (the project launched on 24
Nov 2003).

Some extra notes: This is, again, a bit late notice and arranged in a
hurry.  I think it will work but, if nothing else, it will at least provide
experience for any later competitions (such as the 2015 en.ws anniversary).
 The original idea was for just a week-long contest; currently I've set it
for a full month but I'm thinking of splitting the difference at a
fortnight. I've arranged for ten texts to form the competition, covering a
few different areas and interests; most were already on Wikisource to start
with but remain unfinished or unstarted.  I've added some very basic
guidance to the page, hopefully this makes sense to non-Wikisourcers but I
would appreciate someone checking it.

- Adam
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-11 Thread Richard Nevell 
Hi everyone,

If there are volunteers interested in taking the lead on this, Wikimedia UK
are prepared to provide prize(s) and people outside the UK would be
eligible.

It's encouraging to see discussion about how to make the competition work.

Richard


On 9 November 2013 23:39, i...@cymruwales.com  wrote:

>   Adam and all
>
>  Defnyddiwr:Lloffiwr is an Admin on cy.ws:
>
>  https://cy.wikisource.org/wiki/Defnyddiwr:Lloffiwr
>
>  There aren't enough of us to enter the competition; but getting the
> system ready for mass upload would be good.
>
>  Diolch!
>
>  Robin Owain
>
>
> On 09 November 2013 at 21:48 Adam Morgan  wrote:
>
>  On 9 November 2013 02:21:48, Charles Matthews <
> charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>  > The bare bones, for something on enWS, would be
>  >
>  > *choice from out of existing texts on WS  of a range of works, none too
>  > hard to do (steer clear of special characters, heavy format and so on),
> and
>  > *a page with links to the Index pages?
>  >
>  > With explanations of the traffic-light quality system, and an outline
> of
>  > the competition rules.
>
>
>  Setting up a page will be easy but first,
>
>  1) Is Wikimedia UK going to back this?
>  2) How is this going to work?
>
>
>  I'm not that familiar with all of the unfinished works on Wikisource at
> the moment but I think we might need to upload some new ones too.
>
>  If we do this, we need to work out what sort of works we want to use.
>
>  I think works from the late Victorian era or twentieth century would be
> the best choice.  They probably won't have the special characters or
> formatting issues, for the most part.  Novels might be better than poetry;
> the latter has less text but more formatting.  More famous authors might
> make sense but may also feel redundant; I don't know if people would want
> to work on something that's already widely available elsewhere.  I would
> like to include some mid-twentieth century stuff, as a gentle reminder than
> the public domain did not stop in 1900, but the only things I know that are
> available are some issues of Amazing Stories that I had planned to work on
> myself (which have some illustrations and a few pages with complicated
> formatting).  There should probably be some variety so people not
> interested in one could swap to something else.
>
>
>  What are the competition rules?  For example, do validations count?  It
> would be nice to include that aspect of the project.  Does proofread of
> non-competition list works count towards scoring?  What if one person does
> some proofreading but the page is completed by another?  Will Wikimedia UK
> award prizes to users outside the UK?  Will Wikimedia UK award prizes?!
>
>  Some of my suggested answers:-
>  * 2 points per proofread page
>  * 1 point per validated page
>  * Only works on the competition list count towards scoring
>  * Works proofread by multiple people have the points divided equally
> among them, except...
>  ** Merely saving OCR'd text without proofreading doesn't count for
> scoring
>  * Blank pages do not count towards scoring
>  * The importance of the location of the user is probably down to the
> chapter
>
>
>  If cy.ws is getting in on this, they need their own page and we need to
> decide if that is a separate competition or not.  That is, will the most
> prolific on cy.ws get an e-reader AND the most prolific on en.ws gets an
> e-reader OR are they competing against each other for just one e-reader.
>  Is it just en & cy or will Wikimedia UK support other competitions?  Will
> it support a Polish or Bengali competition, for example, assuming they are
> running one?  NB: I cannot find any administrators on cy.ws, so I don't
> know whom to ask.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-09 Thread i...@cymruwales.com 

 
  
   Adam and all
   
  
    
   
  
   Defnyddiwr:Lloffiwr is an Admin on cy.ws:
   
  
    
   
  
   https://cy.wikisource.org/wiki/Defnyddiwr:Lloffiwr
   
  
    
   
  
   There aren't enough of us to enter the competition; but getting the system ready for mass upload would be good.
   
  
    
   
  
   Diolch!
   
  
    
   
  
   Robin Owain
   
  
    
   
  
   On 09 November 2013 at 21:48 Adam Morgan  wrote:
   



 On 9 November 2013 02:21:48, Charles Matthews <
 charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
 

  
 

 > The bare bones, for something on enWS, would be
 

 > 
 

 > *choice from out of existing texts on WS  of a range of works, none too
 

 > hard to do (steer clear of special characters, heavy format and so on), and
 

 > *a page with links to the Index pages?
 

 >  
 

 > With explanations of the traffic-light quality system, and an outline of
 

 > the competition rules.
 

  
 

  
 

 Setting up a page will be easy but first,
 

  
 

 1) Is Wikimedia UK going to back this?
 

 2) How is this going to work?
 

  
 

  
 

 I'm not that familiar with all of the unfinished works on Wikisource at the moment but I think we might need to upload some new ones too.
 

  
 

 If we do this, we need to work out what sort of works we want to use.
 

  
 

 I think works from the late Victorian era or twentieth century would be the best choice.  They probably won't have the special characters or formatting issues, for the most part.  Novels might be better than poetry; the latter has less text but more formatting.  More famous authors might make sense but may also feel redundant; I don't know if people would want to work on something that's already widely available elsewhere.  I would like to include some mid-twentieth century stuff, as a gentle reminder than the public domain did not stop in 1900, but the only things I know that are available are some issues of Amazing Stories that I had planned to work on myself (which have some illustrations and a few pages with complicated formatting).  There should probably be some variety so people not interested in one could swap to something else.
 

  
 

  
 

 What are the competition rules?  For example, do validations count?  It would be nice to include that aspect of the project.  Does proofread of non-competition list works count towards scoring?  What if one person does some proofreading but the page is completed by another?  Will Wikimedia UK award prizes to users outside the UK?  Will Wikimedia UK award prizes?!
 

  
 

 Some of my suggested answers:-
 

 * 2 points per proofread page
 

 * 1 point per validated page
 

 * Only works on the competition list count towards scoring
 

 * Works proofread by multiple people have the points divided equally among them, except...
 

 ** Merely saving OCR'd text without proofreading doesn't count for scoring
 

 * Blank pages do not count towards scoring
 

 * The importance of the location of the user is probably down to the chapter
 

  
 

  
 

 If 
 cy.ws is getting in on this, they need their own page and we need to decide if that is a separate competition or not.  That is, will the most prolific on 
 cy.ws get an e-reader AND the most prolific on 
 en.ws gets an e-reader OR are they competing against each other for just one e-reader.  Is it just en & cy or will Wikimedia UK support other competitions?  Will it support a Polish or Bengali competition, for example, assuming they are running one?  NB: I cannot find any administrators on 
 cy.ws, so I don't know whom to ask.
 

   
  
    
  
 


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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-09 Thread Adam Morgan 
On 9 November 2013 02:21:48, Charles Matthews <
charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> The bare bones, for something on enWS, would be
>
> *choice from out of existing texts on WS  of a range of works, none too
> hard to do (steer clear of special characters, heavy format and so on),
and
> *a page with links to the Index pages?
>
> With explanations of the traffic-light quality system, and an outline of
> the competition rules.


Setting up a page will be easy but first,

1) Is Wikimedia UK going to back this?
2) How is this going to work?


I'm not that familiar with all of the unfinished works on Wikisource at the
moment but I think we might need to upload some new ones too.

If we do this, we need to work out what sort of works we want to use.

I think works from the late Victorian era or twentieth century would be the
best choice.  They probably won't have the special characters or formatting
issues, for the most part.  Novels might be better than poetry; the latter
has less text but more formatting.  More famous authors might make sense
but may also feel redundant; I don't know if people would want to work on
something that's already widely available elsewhere.  I would like to
include some mid-twentieth century stuff, as a gentle reminder than the
public domain did not stop in 1900, but the only things I know that are
available are some issues of Amazing Stories that I had planned to work on
myself (which have some illustrations and a few pages with complicated
formatting).  There should probably be some variety so people not
interested in one could swap to something else.


What are the competition rules?  For example, do validations count?  It
would be nice to include that aspect of the project.  Does proofread of
non-competition list works count towards scoring?  What if one person does
some proofreading but the page is completed by another?  Will Wikimedia UK
award prizes to users outside the UK?  Will Wikimedia UK award prizes?!

Some of my suggested answers:-
* 2 points per proofread page
* 1 point per validated page
* Only works on the competition list count towards scoring
* Works proofread by multiple people have the points divided equally among
them, except...
** Merely saving OCR'd text without proofreading doesn't count for scoring
* Blank pages do not count towards scoring
* The importance of the location of the user is probably down to the chapter


If cy.ws is getting in on this, they need their own page and we need to
decide if that is a separate competition or not.  That is, will the most
prolific on cy.ws get an e-reader AND the most prolific on en.ws gets an
e-reader OR are they competing against each other for just one e-reader.
 Is it just en & cy or will Wikimedia UK support other competitions?  Will
it support a Polish or Bengali competition, for example, assuming they are
running one?  NB: I cannot find any administrators on cy.ws, so I don't
know whom to ask.
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading > contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-09 Thread Adam Morgan 
On 9 November 2013 02:33:52, fabian  wrote:

> Yes I tried this . . . once. I create the DjVU file and got it onto
> commons but then when I tried to get it on Wikisource, I discovered there
> were forbidden characters in the file name which I had not been warned
> about before. After a bit more mucking about I gave up. All a bit
> frustrating really.


I've never heard of forbidden characters before, beyond the usual for all
computers.  You never did reply to my question, nor take this to the help
forum.

Assuming you mean "File:Tudorschoolboyl01vivegoog.djvu" (as another user
suggested), I could not reproduce your error.  However, while I was
examining it, I took the time to clean it up, replace it with a better copy
(I try to avoid Google scans, they are frequently extremely poor quality)
and had it renamed, per Commons policy, to "File:Tudor School-boy Life
(1908) by Juan Luis Vives.djvu".  (NB: The translator counts for copyright
purposes, so I changed the licence too.)

There is still a small problem, Proofread Page isn't automatically
recognising it as a DjVu file, but that can be fixed manually.

If you still want to try, click the wikisource logo on the Commons page,
create and save. (Manual fixes that would be useful: add the 
tag to the Pages section; change Scans to "djvu"; and change Progress to
"To be proofread". I have no idea why it isn't doing this automatically at
the moment.)



On 9 November 2013 04:57:47, Fæ  wrote:

> This is one of the areas that having a chapter employee/named
> wikisource expert help could sort out, doing this in parallel to the
> competition might be a smart approach. Any volunteer that finds this
> confusing and has a key document that would be of high value to the
> projects, could just email a link or a photocopied document (via
> freepost) to a chapter contact. Only good for a limited number of
> documents and not whole books, but a good area to offer help, or
> indeed a training event for those that need a push to learn how to DIY
> and have some projects in mind (nods to cy.ws).
>
> Creating a good djvu file (or even a pdf) is a bit of an art as with
> standard free tools it can be hard or impossible to set embedded image
> resolution etc.


My preferred three-step method is:

1) Upload it to the Internet Archive.
2) Let them deal with it.
3) Download the finished file.

That only works for page scan files (ie. JPEGs); I don't know how you would
deal with photocopies.

Someone could do that, perhaps starting with something like Dropbox for the
volunteer's scans.  I turned my method into a help page on Wikisource
(Help:Internet Archive) if anyone is interested.  I can't do it: I
frequently reach my bandwidth limit as it is, and may have to actually
downgrade soon.

Speaking of photocopies, many standard office Multifunction Devices (MFDs),
the modern version of an office photocopier, can easily make PDF files.
 Commons/MediaWiki has a problem with more recent version of PDF, however,
but that's a separate issue.  (I think Archive will convert PDFs as well as
scans, I've just never tried it.)

The actual book scanning is the hard bit.  I built a temporary V-cradle out
of old cardboard boxes to do it when I tried.  Lego might be a better
medium for the future.  I also only have one digital camera, so I had to
turn it around and go the other way for a second pass (a professional book
scanner has two cameras, pointing at either page, so it only needs one
pass).  That's too much of a spit and bailing-wire approach to really teach
anyone.  (Destructive book scanning would be easier but libraries might
object.)

- Adam
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading > contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-09 Thread Fæ 
On 09/11/2013, fab...@unpopular.org.uk  wrote:
> Yes I tried this . . . once. I create the DjVU file and got it onto
> commons but then when I tried to get it on Wikisource, I discovered there
> were forbidden characters in the file name which I had not been warned
> about before. After a bit more mucking about I gave up. All a bit
> frustrating really.

This is one of the areas that having a chapter employee/named
wikisource expert help could sort out, doing this in parallel to the
competition might be a smart approach. Any volunteer that finds this
confusing and has a key document that would be of high value to the
projects, could just email a link or a photocopied document (via
freepost) to a chapter contact. Only good for a limited number of
documents and not whole books, but a good area to offer help, or
indeed a training event for those that need a push to learn how to DIY
and have some projects in mind (nods to cy.ws).

Creating a good djvu file (or even a pdf) is a bit of an art as with
standard free tools it can be hard or impossible to set embedded image
resolution etc.

I am surprised at the example of bad characters, I have stumbled
several times with these file name problems, but they should normally
be solvable using unicode in the right way or re-mapping the obvious
problem characters (like slashes to dashes). Right now I'm maintaining
a multi-language backlog table, knowing how to do this sort of thing
took me a long time to learn.[1] Not sure I would want to debug
everyone else's problems though. :-)

1. Example table
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Batch_uploading/Airliners/Priority

Fae
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[Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading > contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-09 Thread fabian 

> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 23:41:14 +
> From: Adam Morgan 
> To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading
>       contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>

(...)

> Most users would never need to actually create a DjVu themselves.  I've
> tried scanning from scratch and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who
> wasn't already committed to the project.   Nothing Wikisource or Wikimedia
> can do is likely to change that, however.

Yes I tried this . . . once. I create the DjVU file and got it onto
commons but then when I tried to get it on Wikisource, I discovered there
were forbidden characters in the file name which I had not been warned
about before. After a bit more mucking about I gave up. All a bit
frustrating really.

all the best

Fabian
User:Leutha


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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-09 Thread Charles Matthews 
On 8 November 2013 23:41, Adam Morgan  wrote:

>
> On 8 November 2013 11:42:24, Charles Matthews  ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > English Wikisource runs a "Proofread of the Month" and one model would be
> > to adapt that to the needs of the competition ("all must have prizes" in
> > PoTM, namely a template on your userpage). So there could be a definite
> > bunch of works selected, where people proofread and validate them page by
> > page.
>
>
> This would be the easiest to judge and the fairest to run, as all texts
> could be of equal-ish clarity.  I am currently working on a Georgian era
> book and it can be quite awkward.  Victorian to 20th Century would be
> easiest as an entry point.
>
> On the other hand, this does require someone actually coming up with a
> list of books to proofread.
>
> That someone would need to make the list, organise everything and
> advertise the challenge in the next fortnight.  Multiple languages would
> need multiple lists.
>
>
The bare bones, for something on enWS, would be

*choice from out of existing texts on WS  of a range of works, none too
hard to do (steer clear of special characters, heavy format and so on), and
*a page with links to the Index pages?

With explanations of the traffic-light quality system, and an outline of
the competition rules.

Charles
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[Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-08 Thread Adam Morgan 
On 8 November 2013 13:53:00, info at cymruwales.com 
wrote:

> In the next few months we will be uploading quite a few articles
> and book reviews onto cy Wikisource, As yet, no templates are in
> place for such delicacies as Proofreading etc. Any help would be
> appreciated by our small community.

I'd like to help the Wikisource that relates to the Land of My Father
(literally) but my stubborn monolingualism is getting in the way.  However,
I think I can work out a few things that need to be cleaned up to get the
proofreading going.

There's only really one template you need, and it's not in the Template
namespace.  Someone with admin powers needs to translate this page:-

MediaWici:Proofreadpage index template


That includes creating Welsh versions of the following categories:-

Categori:Index Validated
Categori:Index Proofread
Categori:Index Not-Proofread
Categori:Index - Ready for Match and Split
Categori:Index - Text Layer Requested
Categori:Index - File to fix
Categori:Index - Unknown progress

(The top three are the most important.)

There are similar categories for the Page namespace and at least one of
them has been translated already, although not created yet:-

Categori:Darllenwyd y proflenni


According to this:-

https://cy.wikisource.org/wiki/Arbennig:PrefixIndex/Index:

There are only two indexes on the project at the moment (a PDF and a DjVu).
 Both Bibles as far as I can tell, although that isn't important.  Just two
makes it hard to tell is anthing else is needed; if there is, it may have
just not come up yet.


If there is a problem with the Proofread Page software, the best person to
ask is User:Tpt on French Wikisource (he is currently the primary developer
for the extension).  User:Rtdwivedi has completely rewritten the code
recently, or is still currently doing so, so she probably knows a lot too
(she's Indian but I don't know which project is the best on which to catch
her).


With my previous e-mail in mind, the project might want to decide at this
stage if they will allow things like user translation, annotation,
wikilinks etc.  This page gives some idea of how different projects do
that:-

https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Subdomain_coordination


I hope that's somewhere in the neighbourhood of helpful.

- Adam
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[Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-08 Thread Adam Morgan 
On 7 November 2013 08:00:18, Michael Peel 
wrote:

> Something that WMUK could support?

>> The contest would be from Nov 24th till Dec 1st. During that time the
>> participants would proofread a selection of books and they would get
points
>> per page. The one with the most points would win an ebook reader.


I think it might be a little too short notice to get something going.

(FYI The next similar date would be ten years of English Wikisource as its
own project, in September 2015.)

Still, if you were to do it, the Proofread of the Month model seems the
easiest.



On 8 November 2013 10:52:56, Fæ  wrote:

> Having 'been around' for quite a while, dabbled in Wikisource and
> lurked around its back passages, I still find it comparatively hard to
> understand. If this is to attract newcomers, then it would be nice to
> see this go hand-in-hand with improving both the guidelines on exactly
> how to proofread (there's a complex multi-stage process that could do
> with a simpler work-flow)


I've heard this before and tried to write a lot of new help pages to solve
it.  I'm hampered by the fact that I don't actually find any problem with
the work-flow; it's really straight forward to me.


> and the rather convoluted underpinning process for turning a
> document/book into a djvu file, loading it on Commons and then setting
> it up as a book on Wikisource (phew).


Most users would never need to actually create a DjVu themselves.  I've
tried scanning from scratch and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who
wasn't already committed to the project.   Nothing Wikisource or Wikimedia
can do is likely to change that, however.


> (e.g. how do you mark up ... "this word is missing from the original"?)


That, at least, is easily solved: you don't.  A missing word is shown by
missing the word.  English Wikisource is about making faithful
reproductions of texts as they are.  Even an occasional wikilink can be
contentious.

Anyway, to my point for these quotes:


On 8 November 2013 11:33:43, Richard Nevell  wrote:

> But, returning to the point of this thread: proofreading Wikisource. If
> there is an appetite to take part, how would it be best organised?
Checking
> for typos and using a spellchecker seems like the simplest approach, would
> it be one which results in a significant impact?


For the same reason as above, I wouldn't recommend correcting typos with a
spellchecker as the challenge.  People are likely to interpret that as
altering the original text, rather than correcting a previous user's
mistakes.  That's just going to cause aggravation all round as edits get
reverted.

(To be clear, typos in the original text are left as they are, to be
preserved for all time, although they can be marked with a SIC template.)


On 8 November 2013 11:05:13, Charles Matthews  wrote:

> ProofReadPage, the MediaWiki extension that allows
> proofing via "text opposite scan", should become the USP, but needs to be
> supplemented by sound policies on annotation and translation.


I'm working on it! :)

Actually getting either annotation or translation agreed as acceptable in a
general sense was hard.  Getting wikilinks allowed in any mainspace page at
all was harder that I thought it would be.  I have been meaning to finish
the annotation policy after the RfC but I've been busy; fortunately it
doesn't come up much.  The new Translation namespace was the solution to
allowing user translated works; the existing ones are still being migrated.

That's not important right now though.


On 8 November 2013 11:42:24, Charles Matthews  wrote:

> English Wikisource runs a "Proofread of the Month" and one model would be
> to adapt that to the needs of the competition ("all must have prizes" in
> PoTM, namely a template on your userpage). So there could be a definite
> bunch of works selected, where people proofread and validate them page by
> page.


This would be the easiest to judge and the fairest to run, as all texts
could be of equal-ish clarity.  I am currently working on a Georgian era
book and it can be quite awkward.  Victorian to 20th Century would be
easiest as an entry point.

On the other hand, this does require someone actually coming up with a list
of books to proofread.

That someone would need to make the list, organise everything and advertise
the challenge in the next fortnight.  Multiple languages would need
multiple lists.

Nevertheless, it would be easiest to score by completed pages.  Where
"page" means a page from the original book/magazine/whatever and
"completed" means fully transcribed (which would be the yellow status,
"proofread", for those who understand what I'm talking about) rather than
OCR gibberish.

It could be done.  It's not as if there is any great shortage of scanned
texts available.

- Adam
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-08 Thread i...@cymruwales.com 

 
  
   Similar request, Charles.
   
  
    
   
  
   In the next few months we will be uploading quite a few articles and book reviews onto cy Wikisource, As yet, no templates are in place for such delicacies as Proofreading etc. Any help would be appreciated by our small community.
   
  
    
   
  
   Thanks
   
  
    
   
  
   Robin Owain
   
  
    
   
  
    
   
  
   On 08 November 2013 at 11:42 Charles Matthews  wrote:
   

   
On 8 November 2013 11:33, Richard Nevell 
wrote: 

  
  
   

 
 
  But, returning to the point of this thread: proofreading Wikisource. If there is an appetite to take part, how would it be best organised? Checking for typos and using a spellchecker seems like the simplest approach, would it be one which results in a significant impact?
   
  
 
   
  
 

   
As a start, if WMUK thinks it would be putting some staff time towards this competition, the best thing might be to start a thread at

   
 

   
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#Announcements

   
 

   
just saying you are considering backing it. 

   
 

   
English Wikisource runs a "Proofread of the Month" and one model would be to adapt that to the needs of the competition ("all must have prizes" in PoTM, namely a template on your userpage). So there could be a definite bunch of works selected, where people proofread and validate them page by page.  

   
 

   
Charles

   
  
 

   
  
    
  
 


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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-08 Thread Charles Matthews 
On 8 November 2013 11:33, Richard Nevell wrote:

But, returning to the point of this thread: proofreading Wikisource. If
> there is an appetite to take part, how would it be best organised? Checking
> for typos and using a spellchecker seems like the simplest approach, would
> it be one which results in a significant impact?
>
> As a start, if WMUK thinks it would be putting some staff time towards
this competition, the best thing might be to start a thread at

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#Announcements

just saying you are considering backing it.

English Wikisource runs a "Proofread of the Month" and one model would be
to adapt that to the needs of the competition ("all must have prizes" in
PoTM, namely a template on your userpage). So there could be a definite
bunch of works selected, where people proofread and validate them page by
page.

Charles
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-08 Thread Richard Nevell 
Tackling epigraphy may require a more systemic approach than accessing
whatever is easy as there are 180,000 inscriptions in the *Corpus
Inscriptionum Latinarum* across 17 volumes.

But, returning to the point of this thread: proofreading Wikisource. If
there is an appetite to take part, how would it be best organised? Checking
for typos and using a spellchecker seems like the simplest approach, would
it be one which results in a significant impact?

Richard


On 8 November 2013 11:19, Fæ  wrote:

> On 8 November 2013 11:18, Fæ  wrote:
> > Non-commercial use of texts from Perseus is
> > prohibited.
>
> Oops, invert that, I meant commercial reuse is prohibited.
>
> Fae
> --
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-08 Thread Fæ 
On 8 November 2013 11:18, Fæ  wrote:
> Non-commercial use of texts from Perseus is
> prohibited.

Oops, invert that, I meant commercial reuse is prohibited.

Fae
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-08 Thread Fæ 
On 8 November 2013 11:04, Richard Nevell
 wrote:
> There are reasonable resources for Latin and Greek translations online; the
> site which springs to mind is Perseus which has nearly 45 million words in
> English of Greek and Roman source material.

Yes, I'm aware of it. Non-commercial use of texts from Perseus is
prohibited. A problem for the *vast* majority of transcriptions
available and the reason they are not available on Wikisource.

My example was for inscriptions, which are a special case of being
artefacts rather than conceptual texts and have different problems
compared to manuscripts. Many of the most important inscriptions
available to historians are also available for us amateurs to take
photographs of, and then do our own transcriptions.

Fae
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-08 Thread Charles Matthews 
On 8 November 2013 10:52, Fæ  wrote:

>
> Having 'been around' for quite a while, dabbled in Wikisource and
> lurked around its back passages, I still find it comparatively hard to
> understand. If this is to attract newcomers, then it would be nice to
> see this go hand-in-hand with improving both the guidelines on exactly
> how to proofread (there's a complex multi-stage process that could do
> with a simpler work-flow), the peculiarities of how text is marked-up
> there and the rather convoluted underpinning process for turning a
> document/book into a djvu file, loading it on Commons and then setting
> it up as a book on Wikisource (phew). I'm fairly wizardly but I found
> the "norms" hard to work out and arbitrary.
>

These and Fae's other general comments are fair.

Since I spoke about Wikisource at the WMUK AGM in 2010, the project has
been getting somewhat more attention, better technical support and so on.
Obviously the competition initiative is a profile-raising exercise, and the
context is other work going on that is off-topic here.

As a text repository Wikisource has plenty of rivals (even the logo
acknowledges that). ProofReadPage, the MediaWiki extension that allows
proofing via "text opposite scan", should become the USP, but needs to be
supplemented by sound policies on annotation and translation. The enWS
community anyway is hardcore and fairly slow to be impressed, but has been
known recently to generate and accept initiatives.

Charles
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-08 Thread Richard Nevell 
There are reasonable resources for Latin and Greek translations online; the
site which springs to mind is Perseus  which
has nearly 45 million words in English of Greek and Roman source material.

Richard


On 8 November 2013 10:52, Fæ  wrote:

> Yes getting more traction for Wikisource would be useful, particularly
> for non-English texts. The ability to show multiple languages side by
> side is an excellent way of transcribing and translating texts,
> however one that is rarely used by anyone. I would be surprised if
> this attracted many new people who would stay on and become regular
> wikisourcerers.
>
> Having 'been around' for quite a while, dabbled in Wikisource and
> lurked around its back passages, I still find it comparatively hard to
> understand. If this is to attract newcomers, then it would be nice to
> see this go hand-in-hand with improving both the guidelines on exactly
> how to proofread (there's a complex multi-stage process that could do
> with a simpler work-flow), the peculiarities of how text is marked-up
> there and the rather convoluted underpinning process for turning a
> document/book into a djvu file, loading it on Commons and then setting
> it up as a book on Wikisource (phew). I'm fairly wizardly but I found
> the "norms" hard to work out and arbitrary.
>
> I agree with Charles' point about low-hanging fruit. With ancient text
> transcriptions falling into disrepair (as University IT departments
> cut back) there is significant educational value in publishing
> transcriptions of Latin and ancient Greek inscriptions, however hardly
> any are on Wikisource, as this is much harder than transcribing a page
> from a 19th century journal. Having talked to a couple of academics
> about this area, I personally would not recommend Wikisource to any
> historians over a custom solution at the moment, mainly due to its
> poor interface, lack of standards for transcriptions (e.g. how do you
> mark up "this letter is likely to be a delta" or "this word is missing
> from the original" apart from making generic custom pop up notes?) and
> general clunkiness, which is a great pity.
>
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com http://j.mp/faewm
>
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Richard Nevell
Wikimedia UK
+44 (0) 20 7065 0753

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-08 Thread Fæ 
Yes getting more traction for Wikisource would be useful, particularly
for non-English texts. The ability to show multiple languages side by
side is an excellent way of transcribing and translating texts,
however one that is rarely used by anyone. I would be surprised if
this attracted many new people who would stay on and become regular
wikisourcerers.

Having 'been around' for quite a while, dabbled in Wikisource and
lurked around its back passages, I still find it comparatively hard to
understand. If this is to attract newcomers, then it would be nice to
see this go hand-in-hand with improving both the guidelines on exactly
how to proofread (there's a complex multi-stage process that could do
with a simpler work-flow), the peculiarities of how text is marked-up
there and the rather convoluted underpinning process for turning a
document/book into a djvu file, loading it on Commons and then setting
it up as a book on Wikisource (phew). I'm fairly wizardly but I found
the "norms" hard to work out and arbitrary.

I agree with Charles' point about low-hanging fruit. With ancient text
transcriptions falling into disrepair (as University IT departments
cut back) there is significant educational value in publishing
transcriptions of Latin and ancient Greek inscriptions, however hardly
any are on Wikisource, as this is much harder than transcribing a page
from a 19th century journal. Having talked to a couple of academics
about this area, I personally would not recommend Wikisource to any
historians over a custom solution at the moment, mainly due to its
poor interface, lack of standards for transcriptions (e.g. how do you
mark up "this letter is likely to be a delta" or "this word is missing
from the original" apart from making generic custom pop up notes?) and
general clunkiness, which is a great pity.

Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com http://j.mp/faewm

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-08 Thread Charles Matthews 
On 8 November 2013 10:27, Richard Nevell wrote:

> I think this sounds like a really interesting idea, what do other people
> think?
>
>
Just a caveat or so.

As a text repository, Wikisource functions as a library and archive, and I
suppose that is how people mostly think of it. That doesn't really describe
its full scope: you'll find individual poems, journal articles,
encyclopedia articles, which in a sense is an even better use (really
useful to able to link to the precise text you want, compared to say
linking to the Internet Archive or Google Books).

The way this translates into proofreading is that people's initial idea is,
for example, going through a Victorian novel and picking up typos, with
spellchecker support. That is Gutenberg-like and perfectly fine, and it is
what Gutenberg does well. There are texts that are much harder to
proofread, even opposite a scan: e.g. reference material.

So proofreading contests that munge all proofing together are basically
going to favour the more readable prose. I have no real problem with that,
but the issue is worth a little thought.

It's a low-hanging fruit situation, in brief. It would be welcome if that
were reflected in the judging.

Charles
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-08 Thread Richard Nevell 
I think this sounds like a really interesting idea, what do other people
think?

Richard


On 7 November 2013 08:00, Michael Peel wrote:

> Something that WMUK could support?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: David Cuenca 
> > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's
> 10th aniversary
> > Date: 7 November 2013 00:58:56 CET
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> > Reply-To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> >
> > On the Wikisource mailing list we are discussing about a contest to
> > celebrate Wikisource's 10th aniversary.
> >
> > The contest would be from Nov 24th till Dec 1st. During that time the
> > participants would proofread a selection of books and they would get
> points
> > per page. The one with the most points would win an ebook reader.
> >
> > So far WM-IT and Amical Wikimedia have comited each the prize for their
> > respective contests on the Italian and Catalan Wikisource. WM-AU and
> WM-DC
> > are considering to sponsor the English edition.
> >
> > If you would like to help us to organize more language editions or find
> > more sponsors, get in touch.
> >
> > If you would like to participate, stay tuned! :)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Micru
> > ___
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> 
>
>
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+44 (0) 20 7065 0753

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
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[Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary

2013-11-07 Thread Michael Peel 
Something that WMUK could support?

Thanks,
Mike

Begin forwarded message:

> From: David Cuenca 
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th 
> aniversary
> Date: 7 November 2013 00:58:56 CET
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> Reply-To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> 
> On the Wikisource mailing list we are discussing about a contest to
> celebrate Wikisource's 10th aniversary.
> 
> The contest would be from Nov 24th till Dec 1st. During that time the
> participants would proofread a selection of books and they would get points
> per page. The one with the most points would win an ebook reader.
> 
> So far WM-IT and Amical Wikimedia have comited each the prize for their
> respective contests on the Italian and Catalan Wikisource. WM-AU and WM-DC
> are considering to sponsor the English edition.
> 
> If you would like to help us to organize more language editions or find
> more sponsors, get in touch.
> 
> If you would like to participate, stay tuned! :)
> 
> Cheers,
> Micru
> ___
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> 


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