[Wikimediauk-l] Piece by Jimmy Wales on front page f Today's Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/24/wikipedia-founder-richard-odwyer-extradition-stopped And before you email the Guardian in the on-line version he has become 'founder' not 'chief'! -- *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513 Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent non-profit organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents. Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Piece by Jimmy Wales on front page f Today's Guardian
On 25 June 2012 09:13, Jon Davies jon.dav...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/24/wikipedia-founder-richard-odwyer-extradition-stopped And before you email the Guardian in the on-line version he has become 'founder' not 'chief'! Better than Wikipedia boss ... - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Piece by Jimmy Wales on front page f Today's Guardian
On 25/06/12 09:13, Jon Davies wrote: And before you email the Guardian in the on-line version he has become 'founder' not 'chief'! Not co-founder then? Gordo ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Piece by Jimmy Wales on front page f Today's Guardian
Rather than nitpicking about this, I hope people are signing the petition and sharing it via twitter and facebook. I mean, _linking to_ online TV is considered a copyvio? Next thing you know, being able to remember any details of a TV show you watched last week will be considered a copyvio for having a 'copy' in your brain. Brian McNeil -- Wikinews, Accredited Reporter. Personal: brian.mcn...@o2.co.uk Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news. Original Message Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Piece by Jimmy Wales on front page f Today's Guardian From: Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com Date: Mon, June 25, 2012 10:39 am To: UK Wikimedia mailing list wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: office off...@wikimedia.org.uk, Jay Walsh jwa...@wikimedia.org On 25/06/12 09:13, Jon Davies wrote: And before you email the Guardian in the on-line version he has become 'founder' not 'chief'! Not co-founder then? Gordo ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Piece by Jimmy Wales on front page f Today's Guardian
On 25/06/12 10:59, brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote: Rather than nitpicking about this, I hope people are signing the petition and sharing it via twitter and facebook. I mean,_linking to_ online TV is considered a copyvio? Next thing you know, being able to remember any details of a TV show you watched last week will be considered a copyvio for having a 'copy' in your brain. Brian McNeil -- I am not sure of the charges, but, yes, I can see how a link to is a copyright violation, in the context of sharing. YMMV, Gordo ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Piece by Jimmy Wales on front page f Today's Guardian
On 25/06/12 09:13, Jon Davies wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/24/wikipedia-founder-richard-odwyer-extradition-stopped And before you email the Guardian in the on-line version he has become 'founder' not 'chief'! http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/may/01/wikipedia-research-jimmy-wales-online Busy man, Jimbo and very high profile. But the UK Chapter, a registered charity, does have to be very careful how it supports causes... Gordo ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Piece by Jimmy Wales on front page f Today's Guardian
From: Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com I mean,_linking to_ online TV is considered a copyvio? Next thing you know, being able to remember any details of a TV show you watched last week will be considered a copyvio for having a 'copy' in your brain. I am not sure of the charges, but, yes, I can see how a link to is a copyright violation, in the context of sharing. The article actually states that, in the USA, there is precedent that linking to a copyright violation does not, in itself, constitute a copyright violation. Since the site is largely-inaccessible, I can't comment on what it was linking to; this could be as-simple as with cases such as the pub landlady Sky tried to sue for using a EuroSat box and showing her customers matches from another EU country. That got kicked out as violating EU competition laws, which I sincerely hope far more pubs and clubs wanting to show sporting events exploit. Next time you're in a pub that shows Sky matches, ask how much they pay, you'll be shocked. The UK has its own copyright laws, and letting this fall back to US law is just allowing someone to be persecuted with higher costs and the risk of a more serious sentence. Theresa May is, given the last 3-4 months screwups, the most incompetent Home Secretary the UK has ever had. You have to wonder, is surrounding himself with blithering idiots the only way David Cameron escapes looking like an utter prat? Brian McNeil -- Wikinews, Accredited Reporter. Personal: brian.mcn...@o2.co.uk Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Piece by Jimmy Wales on front page f Today's Guardian
On 25/06/12 12:02, brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote: You have to wonder, is surrounding himself with blithering idiots the only way David Cameron escapes looking like an utter prat? I would say that was an ad hominem remark. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem Good night! Gordon ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Piece by Jimmy Wales on front page f Today's Guardian
Wow, how easily recent history is forgotten. On Jun 25, 2012 12:02 PM, brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote: From: Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com I mean,_linking to_ online TV is considered a copyvio? Next thing you know, being able to remember any details of a TV show you watched last week will be considered a copyvio for having a 'copy' in your brain. I am not sure of the charges, but, yes, I can see how a link to is a copyright violation, in the context of sharing. The article actually states that, in the USA, there is precedent that linking to a copyright violation does not, in itself, constitute a copyright violation. Since the site is largely-inaccessible, I can't comment on what it was linking to; this could be as-simple as with cases such as the pub landlady Sky tried to sue for using a EuroSat box and showing her customers matches from another EU country. That got kicked out as violating EU competition laws, which I sincerely hope far more pubs and clubs wanting to show sporting events exploit. Next time you're in a pub that shows Sky matches, ask how much they pay, you'll be shocked. The UK has its own copyright laws, and letting this fall back to US law is just allowing someone to be persecuted with higher costs and the risk of a more serious sentence. Theresa May is, given the last 3-4 months screwups, the most incompetent Home Secretary the UK has ever had. You have to wonder, is surrounding himself with blithering idiots the only way David Cameron escapes looking like an utter prat? Brian McNeil -- Wikinews, Accredited Reporter. Personal: brian.mcn...@o2.co.uk Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Piece by Jimmy Wales on front page f Today's Guardian
And humming the theme from Dad's army On 25 June 2012 12:07, Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com wrote: On 25/06/12 12:02, brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote: You have to wonder, is surrounding himself with blithering idiots the only way David Cameron escapes looking like an utter prat? I would say that was an ad hominem remark. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem Good night! Gordon ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513 Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent non-profit organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents. Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Piece by Jimmy Wales on front page f Today's Guardian
No, Brian's criticism or speculation about a person does not constitute Argumentum Ad Hominem. These logical terms have a specific meaning (described quite well in the Wikipedia article) and it irks me to see Ad Hominem used to mean insult or criticism. On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com wrote: On 25/06/12 12:02, brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote: You have to wonder, is surrounding himself with blithering idiots the only way David Cameron escapes looking like an utter prat? I would say that was an ad hominem remark. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem Good night! Gordon ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- Dr Martin L Poulter Volunteer, Wikimedia UK http://uk.wikimedia.org/ Wikipedia contributor http://enwp.org/User:MartinPoulter Musician http://myspace.com/comapilot Person http://infobomb.org/ ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Piece by Jimmy Wales on front page f Today's Guardian
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com wrote: On 25/06/12 12:02, brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote: You have to wonder, is surrounding himself with blithering idiots the only way David Cameron escapes looking like an utter prat? I would say that was an ad hominem remark. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem From: Martin Poulter infob...@gmail.com No, Brian's criticism or speculation about a person does not constitute Argumentum Ad Hominem. These logical terms have a specific meaning (described quite well in the Wikipedia article) and it irks me to see Ad Hominem used to mean insult or criticism. Thank you, Martin. Ad Hominem is, put simply, ignoring the idea and attacking the person. I always liked the old Usenet .sig that puts the point across subversively: Ideas are beautiful and fragile things; attack people, not ideas. Brian McNeil -- Wikinews, Accredited Reporter. Personal: brian.mcn...@o2.co.uk Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Piece by Jimmy Wales on front page f Today's Guardian
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com wrote: On 25/06/12 10:59, brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote: Rather than nitpicking about this, I hope people are signing the petition and sharing it via twitter and facebook. I mean,_linking to_ online TV is considered a copyvio? Next thing you know, being able to remember any details of a TV show you watched last week will be considered a copyvio for having a 'copy' in your brain. Brian McNeil -- I am not sure of the charges, but, yes, I can see how a link to is a copyright violation, in the context of sharing. YMMV, FWIW, that's the point of view Wikipedia itself takes. It expressly forbods linking to copyright violations, and cites a legal precedent as its reasoning. The relevant policy paragraph is Wikipedia:LINKVIOhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:LINKVIOredirect=no – ... if you know or reasonably suspect that an external Web site is carrying a work in violation of the creator's copyright, do not link to that copy of the work. An example would be linking to a site hosting the lyrics of many popular songs without permission from their copyright holders. Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringementhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributory_copyright_infringement in the United States (*Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministryhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_Reserve_v._Utah_Lighthouse_Ministry * [1] http://www.law.uh.edu/faculty/cjoyce/copyright/release10/IntRes.html). Linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on Wikipedia and its editors. The point is repeated in WP:ELNEVER: For policy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:LOP or technical reasons, editors are restricted from linking to the following, *without exception*: 1. Material that violates the copyrights of others per contributors' rights and obligationshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights#Linking_to_copyrighted_works should not be linked. Linking to websites that display copyrighted works is acceptable as long as the website has licensed the work, or uses the work in a way compliant with fair use. Knowingly directing others to material that violates copyright may be considered contributory copyright infringementhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributory_copyright_infringement. If there is reason to believe that a website has a copy of a work in violation of its copyright, do not link to it. Linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work casts a bad light on Wikipedia and its editors. *This is particularly relevant when linking to sites such as Scribd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scribd or YouTubehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube, where due care should be taken to avoid linking to material that violates copyright.* * * Not sure how that squares with Jimbo's First Amendment argument. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
