Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Addshore]

IMO both QRpedia and the wmuk wiki could be hosted on WMF infrastructure in
one way or another.

The was an email a few weeks or months ago regarding access to the wiki for
volunteers on the server side to help improve the situation, but it doesn't
seem much really happened after that.

If WMUK want help with any of the above then I and others on this list are
here and ready to help and also waving our arms around.
But WMUK needs to start the process.

I guess there are privacy elements (GDPR) and what not that need to be
considered.

On Sat, 1 Dec 2018, 12:37 Charles Matthews 
> On 01 December 2018 at 09:30 Jonathan Cardy 
> wrote:
>
> More radically, you could move the UK wiki to be a project on Meta.
>
> 
>
> I can’t think of anything we have ever gained from having our own
> independent Wiki as opposed to a project on Meta, unless you count
> independence and seperation from the rest of the movement as a positive.
>
> As a matter of history, independence was a big motivation, rightly or
> wrongly.
>
> There is fundraising to consider, naturally. There is more than that one
> wiki hosted, even in terms of MediaWiki instances.
>
> In terms of fundraising, I spoke in 2010 (as WMUK staff) to someone then
> working in online fundraising as CE of a charity. Who told me that
> Wikimedia as a whole undershot what could be done in terms of raising
> funds, by an order of magnitude; and that you had to cater for the needs of
> the savvy donor, who researches charities online. The point is obviously
> not to rely entirely on impulse giving.
>
> Now, that cannot be done on meta, clearly.
>
> Does there need to be a wiki involved? There an element here of business
> logic versus open logic. Certainly one argument is "a report on the
> charity's activities is under professional control, and that is what should
> be online". A counter-argument is that it would convey nothing distinctive,
> everyone knows that glossiness can be purchased, and the WMF set its face
> some time ago against the plusher models of charity and NGO development.
>
> A colleague told me not long ago that the trend for corporate sites is to
> make them leaner. The rationale is that people will anyway use other
> sources of information about corporation C, researching it elsewhere. Part
> of this discussion should be whether that would actually be a good thing
> for chapter's comms. There is a familiar debate here about who are the
> stakeholders and so on, and honestly anyone who brings up rationalising the
> wiki out of existence really needs to have their own version of that to
> hand.
>
> Actually the UK wiki seems to me to have suffered from a couple of things.
> These really shouldn't have to be spelled out. They are:
>
> (a) That it has been treated as an appendage to the office system; and
>
> (b) A division of labour that is familiar from WP, that everyone should
> muck in on the scutwork, some people develop substantive content, and
> others do maintenance work like tagging with templates and effectively
> archiving old content, has not been understood by the office. And that none
> of this should be confused with the developer time cost, though there is
> certainly a cost to not having the site run like a dog and suffering
> periods of downtime.
>
> For heaven's sake, a way to engage volunteers familiar with wiki editing
> is to have a wiki they'd want to edit. Not some sort of obsolescent filing
> cabinet. In these terms, beware the stakeholder analysis that simply
> ignores the group of people who, wait for it, actually write Wikipedia.
>
> Charles
>
>
> ___
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> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Charles Matthews]

> On 01 December 2018 at 09:30 Jonathan Cardy  
> wrote:
> 
> More radically, you could move the UK wiki to be a project on Meta. 
> 
> 



> I can’t think of anything we have ever gained from having our own 
> independent Wiki as opposed to a project on Meta, unless you count 
> independence and seperation from the rest of the movement as a positive.
> 

As a matter of history, independence was a big motivation, rightly or wrongly.

There is fundraising to consider, naturally. There is more than that one wiki 
hosted, even in terms of MediaWiki instances. 

In terms of fundraising, I spoke in 2010 (as WMUK staff) to someone then 
working in online fundraising as CE of a charity. Who told me that Wikimedia as 
a whole undershot what could be done in terms of raising funds, by an order of 
magnitude; and that you had to cater for the needs of the savvy donor, who 
researches charities online. The point is obviously not to rely entirely on 
impulse giving.

Now, that cannot be done on meta, clearly.

Does there need to be a wiki involved? There an element here of business logic 
versus open logic. Certainly one argument is "a report on the charity's 
activities is under professional control, and that is what should be online". A 
counter-argument is that it would convey nothing distinctive, everyone knows 
that glossiness can be purchased, and the WMF set its face some time ago 
against the plusher models of charity and NGO development.

A colleague told me not long ago that the trend for corporate sites is to make 
them leaner. The rationale is that people will anyway use other sources of 
information about corporation C, researching it elsewhere. Part of this 
discussion should be whether that would actually be a good thing for chapter's 
comms. There is a familiar debate here about who are the stakeholders and so 
on, and honestly anyone who brings up rationalising the wiki out of existence 
really needs to have their own version of that to hand.

Actually the UK wiki seems to me to have suffered from a couple of things. 
These really shouldn't have to be spelled out. They are:

(a) That it has been treated as an appendage to the office system; and

(b) A division of labour that is familiar from WP, that everyone should muck in 
on the scutwork, some people develop substantive content, and others do 
maintenance work like tagging with templates and effectively archiving old 
content, has not been understood by the office. And that none of this should be 
confused with the developer time cost, though there is certainly a cost to not 
having the site run like a dog and suffering periods of downtime.

For heaven's sake, a way to engage volunteers familiar with wiki editing is to 
have a wiki they'd want to edit. Not some sort of obsolescent filing cabinet. 
In these terms, beware the stakeholder analysis that simply ignores the group 
of people who, wait for it, actually write Wikipedia.

Charles
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Jonathan Cardy]

More radically, you could move the UK wiki to be a project on Meta.

This would end much of your costs for maintaining the wiki, other than any 
domain names which you could point there. But more importantly it would include 
you into Single User Login and cross wiki notifications. So if you pinged 
someone in a discussion they would know about it next time they were on 
Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons. It would also help lower the barriers against 
involving that rather large group of Wikimedians who are in the UK but who have 
had little or no contact with the chapter.

I can’t think of anything we have ever gained from having our own independent 
Wiki as opposed to a project on Meta, unless you count independence and 
seperation from the rest of the movement as a positive.

Jonathan



Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>


From: Wikimediauk-l  on behalf of 
John Lubbock 
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 5:48 pm
To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK 
Wiki

I support Andy's proposal. Some consolidation of communications formats is a 
very good thing from my point of view. We have so many it's hard to keep track 
of them all.

John Lubbock

Communications Coordinator

Wikimedia UK

+44 (0) 203 372 0767

 
[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B-NnTyZV24WTVXhLeDIxSWs2d28&revid=0B-NnTyZV24WTc29aKy9VK2ovTDlrWDdMZCtzNk5GTFp2cThjPQ]

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, 
Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Office 1, Ground Floor, 
Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ.

Wikimedia UK is the national chapter of the global Wikimedia open knowledge 
movement. We rely on donations from individuals to support our work to make 
knowledge open for all. Have you considered supporting Wikimedia UK? Donate 
here<https://donate.wikimedia.org.uk>.

The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate 
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit 
charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its 
contents.


On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 16:39, Andy Mabbett 
mailto:a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 15:42, mailto:leu...@fabiant.eu>> 
wrote:

>  Engine Room

> water cooler

I suggest re-merging those pages. The level of traffic is not high and
the benefits of splitting them were never clear.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[leutha]

I support Chris' variation on Andy's proposal.If there is a problem keeping track of all the channels of communication, I would suggest  creating a page on the Wiki and listing them there so that they can be checked on a weekly basis.all the best,FabianOn 30 November 2018 at 17:47 John Lubbock  wrote:I support Andy's proposal. Some consolidation of communications formats isa very good thing from my point of view. We have so many it's hard to keeptrack of them all.John LubbockCommunications CoordinatorWikimedia UK+44 (0) 203 372 0767Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England andWales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Office 1,Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ.Wikimedia UK is the national chapter of the global Wikimedia open knowledgemovement. We rely on donations from individuals to support our work to makeknowledge open for all. Have you considered supporting Wikimedia UK? Donatehere <">https://donate.wikimedia.org.uk>.The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operateWikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independentnon-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibilityfor its contents.*On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 16:39, Andy Mabbett wrote:On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 15:42,  wrote:Engine Roomwater coolerI suggest re-merging those pages. The level of traffic is not high andthe benefits of splitting them were never clear.--Andy Mabbett@pigsonthewinghttp://pigsonthewing.org.uk___Wikimedia UK mailing listwikimediau...@wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lWMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk___Wikimedia UK mailing listwikimediau...@wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lWMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
 

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Chris McKenna]

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018, Andy Mabbett wrote:


On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 15:42,  wrote:


 Engine Room



water cooler


I suggest re-merging those pages. The level of traffic is not high and
the benefits of splitting them were never clear.

The point of splitting them was that internal meta discussions about the 
charity, its governance, the technology, and miscellaneous grievances were 
distrating from (and a times overwhelming) outward-facing communication 
regarding events, volunteering, etc.


However given that at the moment almost nobody is using the wiki to 
communicate about anything (and even fewer people are doing so 
successfully) it is probably best to merge them for now - probably just 
archive the curent posts on the Engine Room and redirect it to the 
Watercooler with a note about where to find the archives. This way 
splitting them again, should the activity level in future return to 
previous levels, will not require any significant effort.



Chris McKenna

cmcke...@sucs.org
www.sucs.org/~cmckenna


The essential things in life are seen not with the eyes,
but with the heart

Antoine de Saint Exupery


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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[John Lubbock]

I support Andy's proposal. Some consolidation of communications formats is
a very good thing from my point of view. We have so many it's hard to keep
track of them all.

John Lubbock

Communications Coordinator

Wikimedia UK

+44 (0) 203 372 0767



Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Office 1,
Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ.

Wikimedia UK is the national chapter of the global Wikimedia open knowledge
movement. We rely on donations from individuals to support our work to make
knowledge open for all. Have you considered supporting Wikimedia UK? Donate
here .

The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent
non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility
for its contents.*


On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 16:39, Andy Mabbett 
wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 15:42,  wrote:
>
> >  Engine Room
>
> > water cooler
>
> I suggest re-merging those pages. The level of traffic is not high and
> the benefits of splitting them were never clear.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Andy Mabbett]

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 15:42,  wrote:

>  Engine Room

> water cooler

I suggest re-merging those pages. The level of traffic is not high and
the benefits of splitting them were never clear.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Charles Matthews]

> On 30 November 2018 at 15:42 leu...@fabiant.eu wrote:
> 
> 
> Please have a look at the Engine Room 
> https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Engine_room . It is unfortunate that there has 
> been no reply to Brian Kelly's inquiry about the VLE made back in August.
> 

"Sorry, the website moodle.wikimedia.org.uk cannot be found" is as much as I 
know about it.

Charles
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Lucy Crompton-Reid]

Thanks Fabian - and yes, I will do that.

I'm sorry Hannah didn't contact this list about her departure, which I'm
sure was an oversight. I have also been meaning to email the list about my
return, but I'm going to do that in a separate message :)

Best
Lucy

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 15:42,  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Thanks for that, Lucy.
>
> Might I suggest a small improvement which could be achieved for little
> expense is that you use both this list and the wiki to keep people informed.
>
> Please have a look at the Engine Room
> . It is unfortunate that there
> has been no reply to Brian Kelly's inquiry about the VLE made back in
> August.
>
> Likewise, the outdated staff photo – dating from 2015 is still the one
> currently being used, despite the prompt dating from March 2018, which
> Michael kindly responded to over four months later.
>
> Perhaps if you could ensure that a member of staff is charged with
> checking this and responding to queries at the start of every week. This
> would only take five minutes most weeks, as the unresponsiveness on the
> wiki has meant there have only been 10 posts in all of 2018.
>
> Likewise the water cooler, where the sole inquirer for 2018 has been
> waiting four months for a response!
>
> Also I understand that Hannah Evans has left. I feel that people on this
> list had been informed.
>
> all the best,
>
> Fabian Tompsett
>
> aka Leutha
>
>
> On 30 November 2018 at 14:17 Lucy Crompton-Reid <
> lucy.crompton-r...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all
>
> Thanks for your comments and suggestions about the chapter's Wiki, and
> related technical issues. There have been a few conversations around this
> at board and senior management level recently and we are aware that there
> is a need to improve our approach to technology both at an operational
> level (with some work currently happening on this front) and at a
> programmatic/strategic level (ditto). There is much more to be done however
>
> and we're aware that we also need to work more closely with the volunteer
> community on both the challenges and opportunities we're facing regarding
> technology - so please bear with us while we seek to address some of the
> issues highlighted (and others that haven't been!)
>
> Thanks and best
> Lucy
>
>
>
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 14:02, Fæ  wrote:
>
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 13:31, Charles Matthews
>  wrote:
> >
> >
>
> Trust me nobody is more frustrated about it all than me.
>
> The whole "three wise monkeys" approach by WMUK to its wiki has been
>
> going on for years, and is quite unacceptable.
> >
>
> Charles
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>
> Now would be a good time for the WMUK board to review whether having
> its own wiki is worth the on-going investment in scarce volunteer time
> or employee time. Running a blog does not need a wiki, and many other
> chapters happily use meta to publish reports and documents which can
> be discussed by anyone there, with zero budget or consultancy needed.
>
> When we created the charity's own wiki, there was a vibrant and highly
> active UK charity volunteer community of hundreds. A significant
> proportion of the most active volunteers used our entirely volunteer
> driven wiki to coordinate the projects and policies of the evolving
> charity. Those reasons no longer exist. Projects can, and probably
> should, be coordinated on WMF supported sites, such as project pages
> on Meta, Wikipedia and Commons, with the obvious benefits that
> volunteers globally can easily link to it, find it (via standard
> search), and participate, rather than being directed to a peculiar
> chapter wiki that they will have no special incentive to use for
> discussion and is increasingly subject to outage and maintenance
> headaches.
>
> For QRpedia, current and potential usage is far wider than the UK.
> Discussing its maintenance and long term future should be widely
> promoted and can easily justify a specific WMF funding case.
>
> Thanks
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
>
>
>
> --
> Lucy Crompton-Reid
> Chief Executive
> Wikimedia UK
> +44 (0) 203 372 0762
>
> *Wikimedia UK* is the national chapter for the global Wikimedia open
> knowledge movement, and a registered charity. We rely on donations from
> individuals to support our work to make knowledge open for all. Have you
> considered supporting Wikimedia? https://donate.wikimedia.org.uk
> Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered
> No. 6741827
> Registered Charity No.1144513
> Registered Office Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London
> SE1 0NZ
>
> The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
> W

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[leutha]

Hi all,Thanks for that, Lucy.Might I suggest a small improvement which could be achieved for little expense is that you use both this list and the wiki to keep people informed.Please have a look at the Engine Room. It is unfortunate that there has been no reply to Brian Kelly's inquiry about the VLE made back in August.Likewise, the outdated staff photo – dating from 2015 is still the one currently being used, despite the prompt dating from March 2018, which Michael kindly responded to over four months later.Perhaps if you could ensure that a member of staff is charged with checking this and responding to queries at the start of every week. This would only take five minutes most weeks, as the unresponsiveness on the wiki has meant there have only been 10 posts in all of 2018.Likewise the water cooler, where the sole inquirer for 2018 has been waiting four months for a response!Also I understand that Hannah Evans has left. I feel that people on this list had been informed.all the best,Fabian Tompsettaka LeuthaOn 30 November 2018 at 14:17 Lucy Crompton-Reid  wrote:Hi allThanks for your comments and suggestions about the chapter's Wiki, andrelated technical issues. There have been a few conversations around thisat board and senior management level recently and we are aware that thereis a need to improve our approach to technology both at an operationallevel (with some work currently happening on this front) and at aprogrammatic/strategic level (ditto). There is much more to be done howeverand we're aware that we also need to work more closely with the volunteercommunity on both the challenges and opportunities we're facing regardingtechnology - so please bear with us while we seek to address some of theissues highlighted (and others that haven't been!)Thanks and bestLucyOn Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 14:02, Fæ  wrote:On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 13:31, Charles Matthews wrote:>>Trust me nobody is more frustrated about it all than me.The whole "three wise monkeys" approach by WMUK to its wiki has beengoing on for years, and is quite unacceptable.>Charles___Wikimedia UK mailing listNow would be a good time for the WMUK board to review whether havingits own wiki is worth the on-going investment in scarce volunteer timeor employee time. Running a blog does not need a wiki, and many otherchapters happily use meta to publish reports and documents which canbe discussed by anyone there, with zero budget or consultancy needed.When we created the charity's own wiki, there was a vibrant and highlyactive UK charity volunteer community of hundreds. A significantproportion of the most active volunteers used our entirely volunteerdriven wiki to coordinate the projects and policies of the evolvingcharity. Those reasons no longer exist. Projects can, and probablyshould, be coordinated on WMF supported sites, such as project pageson Meta, Wikipedia and Commons, with the obvious benefits thatvolunteers globally can easily link to it, find it (via standardsearch), and participate, rather than being directed to a peculiarchapter wiki that they will have no special incentive to use fordiscussion and is increasingly subject to outage and maintenanceheadaches.For QRpedia, current and potential usage is far wider than the UK.Discussing its maintenance and long term future should be widelypromoted and can easily justify a specific WMF funding case.ThanksFae--fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae___Wikimedia UK mailing listwikimediau...@wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lWMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk-- Lucy Crompton-ReidChief ExecutiveWikimedia UK+44 (0) 203 372 0762*Wikimedia UK* is the national chapter for the global Wikimedia openknowledge movement, and a registered charity. We rely on donations fromindividuals to support our work to make knowledge open for all. Have youconsidered supporting Wikimedia? https://donate.wikimedia.org.ukCompany Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, RegisteredNo. 6741827Registered Charity No.1144513Registered Office Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, LondonSE1 0NZThe Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operateWikipedia, amongst other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independentnon-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibilityfor its contents.___Wikimedia UK mailing listwikimediau...@wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lWMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
 

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Charles Matthews]

> On 30 November 2018 at 14:01 Fæ  wrote:

> Now would be a good time for the WMUK board to review whether having
> its own wiki is worth the on-going investment in scarce volunteer time
> or employee time.

Not so much. There has been an issue for five years, IMX, and a "review" that 
concluded that starving the wiki of resources, and, more importantly, of 
respect by staff has left a mess is not a long job. Just rationalising it away 
is cheap, in all senses of the world. Besides, it could be useful, and a plus 
for fundraising, with TLC.
 
> For QRpedia, current and potential usage is far wider than the UK.
> Discussing its maintenance and long term future should be widely
> promoted and can easily justify a specific WMF funding case.

For QRpedia, I would agree that a tech review now would be a good idea. 

Charles

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Lucy Crompton-Reid]

Hi all

Thanks for your comments and suggestions about the chapter's Wiki, and
related technical issues. There have been a few conversations around this
at board and senior management level recently and we are aware that there
is a need to improve our approach to technology both at an operational
level (with some work currently happening on this front) and at a
programmatic/strategic level (ditto). There is much more to be done however
- and we're aware that we also need to work more closely with the volunteer
community on both the challenges and opportunities we're facing regarding
technology - so please bear with us while we seek to address some of the
issues highlighted (and others that haven't been!)

Thanks and best
Lucy



On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 14:02, Fæ  wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 13:31, Charles Matthews
>  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Trust me nobody is more frustrated about it all than me.
> >
> > The whole "three wise monkeys" approach by WMUK to its wiki has been
> going on for years, and is quite unacceptable.
> >
> > Charles
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia UK mailing list
>
> Now would be a good time for the WMUK board to review whether having
> its own wiki is worth the on-going investment in scarce volunteer time
> or employee time. Running a blog does not need a wiki, and many other
> chapters happily use meta to publish reports and documents which can
> be discussed by anyone there, with zero budget or consultancy needed.
>
> When we created the charity's own wiki, there was a vibrant and highly
> active UK charity volunteer community of hundreds. A significant
> proportion of the most active volunteers used our entirely volunteer
> driven wiki to coordinate the projects and policies of the evolving
> charity. Those reasons no longer exist. Projects can, and probably
> should, be coordinated on WMF supported sites, such as project pages
> on Meta, Wikipedia and Commons, with the obvious benefits that
> volunteers globally can easily link to it, find it (via standard
> search), and participate, rather than being directed to a peculiar
> chapter wiki that they will have no special incentive to use for
> discussion and is increasingly subject to outage and maintenance
> headaches.
>
> For QRpedia, current and potential usage is far wider than the UK.
> Discussing its maintenance and long term future should be widely
> promoted and can easily justify a specific WMF funding case.
>
> Thanks
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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-- 
Lucy Crompton-Reid
Chief Executive
Wikimedia UK
+44 (0) 203 372 0762

*Wikimedia UK* is the national chapter for the global Wikimedia open
knowledge movement, and a registered charity. We rely on donations from
individuals to support our work to make knowledge open for all. Have you
considered supporting Wikimedia? https://donate.wikimedia.org.uk
Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered
No. 6741827
Registered Charity No.1144513
Registered Office Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London
SE1 0NZ

The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent
non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility
for its contents.
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Fæ]

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 13:31, Charles Matthews
 wrote:
>
>
> Trust me nobody is more frustrated about it all than me.
>
> The whole "three wise monkeys" approach by WMUK to its wiki has been going on 
> for years, and is quite unacceptable.
>
> Charles
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list

Now would be a good time for the WMUK board to review whether having
its own wiki is worth the on-going investment in scarce volunteer time
or employee time. Running a blog does not need a wiki, and many other
chapters happily use meta to publish reports and documents which can
be discussed by anyone there, with zero budget or consultancy needed.

When we created the charity's own wiki, there was a vibrant and highly
active UK charity volunteer community of hundreds. A significant
proportion of the most active volunteers used our entirely volunteer
driven wiki to coordinate the projects and policies of the evolving
charity. Those reasons no longer exist. Projects can, and probably
should, be coordinated on WMF supported sites, such as project pages
on Meta, Wikipedia and Commons, with the obvious benefits that
volunteers globally can easily link to it, find it (via standard
search), and participate, rather than being directed to a peculiar
chapter wiki that they will have no special incentive to use for
discussion and is increasingly subject to outage and maintenance
headaches.

For QRpedia, current and potential usage is far wider than the UK.
Discussing its maintenance and long term future should be widely
promoted and can easily justify a specific WMF funding case.

Thanks
Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Andy Mabbett]

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 13:31, Andy Mabbett  wrote:

> > If WMUK no longer has a technology budget you might want to consider
> > asking if another chapter would be willing to support QRpedia.
>
> Of WMF?

That should read "Or WMF?"; sorry.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Andy Mabbett]

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 13:18, WereSpielChequers
 wrote:

> If WMUK no longer has a technology budget you might want to consider
> asking if another chapter would be willing to support QRpedia.

Of WMF?

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Charles Matthews]

> Trust me nobody is more frustrated about it all than me.
> 

The whole "three wise monkeys" approach by WMUK to its wiki has been going on 
for years, and is quite unacceptable.

Charles
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[WereSpielChequers]

Dear John,

If WMUK no longer has a technology budget you might want to consider asking
if another chapter would be willing to support QRpedia. It is only because
it started in the UK that it was hosted by the UK chapter, it is actually a
global resource.

Jonathan

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 13:04, John Lubbock 
wrote:

> Hi Chris, I know, I know, it's a huge problem we've been having. All the
> extensions are also down, and some domains like the QRPedia one and the
> stats.wikimedia.org.uk one are also not working, and have not been doing
> so for a while. I'm told that Tom Morton is trying to fix things but I
> think he's part time, and I keep on asking for updates about when things
> might be fixed, but I've not heard anyhting about when they might be fixed.
> Things are going as fast as he can manage, I suppose, but without a full
> time person to do this on staff, and with Tom the only person who has
> access to the server files, it's all going very slowly. Trust me nobody is
> more frustrated about it all than me.
>
> John Lubbock
>
> Communications Coordinator
>
> Wikimedia UK
>
> +44 (0) 203 372 0767
>
>
>
> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Office 1,
> Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ.
>
> Wikimedia UK is the national chapter of the global Wikimedia open
> knowledge movement. We rely on donations from individuals to support our
> work to make knowledge open for all. Have you considered supporting
> Wikimedia UK? Donate here .
>
> The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
> Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent
> non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility
> for its contents.*
>
>
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 12:54, Chris McKenna  wrote:
>
>> Currently, both recent changes and watchlists on the WMUK Wiki are
>> showing
>> 0 changes, despite there being changes that should be shown - there have
>> been four posts to the Engine Room (where this problem was flagged up) in
>> the past 2 days for example.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> 
>> Chris McKenna
>>
>> cmcke...@sucs.org
>> www.sucs.org/~cmckenna
>>
>>
>> The essential things in life are seen not with the eyes,
>> but with the heart
>>
>> Antoine de Saint Exupery
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
> ___
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> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Chris McKenna]

It seems that having only one person able to access the server files is a 
poor idea for various reasons including business continutiy, reliability 
and issues lie this one.


I don't have the skills for the job, but there must be someone in the 
community that does?


Chris

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018, John Lubbock wrote:


Hi Chris, I know, I know, it's a huge problem we've been having. All the
extensions are also down, and some domains like the QRPedia one and the
stats.wikimedia.org.uk one are also not working, and have not been doing so
for a while. I'm told that Tom Morton is trying to fix things but I think
he's part time, and I keep on asking for updates about when things might be
fixed, but I've not heard anyhting about when they might be fixed. Things
are going as fast as he can manage, I suppose, but without a full time
person to do this on staff, and with Tom the only person who has access to
the server files, it's all going very slowly. Trust me nobody is more
frustrated about it all than me.

John Lubbock

Communications Coordinator

Wikimedia UK

+44 (0) 203 372 0767



Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Office 1,
Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ.

Wikimedia UK is the national chapter of the global Wikimedia open knowledge
movement. We rely on donations from individuals to support our work to make
knowledge open for all. Have you considered supporting Wikimedia UK? Donate
here .

The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent
non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility
for its contents.*


On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 12:54, Chris McKenna  wrote:


Currently, both recent changes and watchlists on the WMUK Wiki are showing
0 changes, despite there being changes that should be shown - there have
been four posts to the Engine Room (where this problem was flagged up) in
the past 2 days for example.

Chris


Chris McKenna

cmcke...@sucs.org
www.sucs.org/~cmckenna


The essential things in life are seen not with the eyes,
but with the heart

Antoine de Saint Exupery


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Chris McKenna

cmcke...@sucs.org
www.sucs.org/~cmckenna


The essential things in life are seen not with the eyes,
but with the heart

Antoine de Saint Exupery


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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[John Lubbock]

Hi Chris, I know, I know, it's a huge problem we've been having. All the
extensions are also down, and some domains like the QRPedia one and the
stats.wikimedia.org.uk one are also not working, and have not been doing so
for a while. I'm told that Tom Morton is trying to fix things but I think
he's part time, and I keep on asking for updates about when things might be
fixed, but I've not heard anyhting about when they might be fixed. Things
are going as fast as he can manage, I suppose, but without a full time
person to do this on staff, and with Tom the only person who has access to
the server files, it's all going very slowly. Trust me nobody is more
frustrated about it all than me.

John Lubbock

Communications Coordinator

Wikimedia UK

+44 (0) 203 372 0767



Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Office 1,
Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ.

Wikimedia UK is the national chapter of the global Wikimedia open knowledge
movement. We rely on donations from individuals to support our work to make
knowledge open for all. Have you considered supporting Wikimedia UK? Donate
here .

The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent
non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility
for its contents.*


On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 12:54, Chris McKenna  wrote:

> Currently, both recent changes and watchlists on the WMUK Wiki are showing
> 0 changes, despite there being changes that should be shown - there have
> been four posts to the Engine Room (where this problem was flagged up) in
> the past 2 days for example.
>
> Chris
>
> 
> Chris McKenna
>
> cmcke...@sucs.org
> www.sucs.org/~cmckenna
>
>
> The essential things in life are seen not with the eyes,
> but with the heart
>
> Antoine de Saint Exupery
>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
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[Wikimediauk-l] Recent changes and watchlists broken on the WMUK Wiki

[Chris McKenna]

Currently, both recent changes and watchlists on the WMUK Wiki are showing 
0 changes, despite there being changes that should be shown - there have 
been four posts to the Engine Room (where this problem was flagged up) in 
the past 2 days for example.


Chris


Chris McKenna

cmcke...@sucs.org
www.sucs.org/~cmckenna


The essential things in life are seen not with the eyes,
but with the heart

Antoine de Saint Exupery


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