Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers (John Byrne)

[Rex X]

I'm also willing to listen to criticism of the chapter, and I promise I'll do 
my best to address any issues that I can, as long as it does not fall directly 
within the operational remit of the staff.

I don't share the concern about the jump in membership. All the reports I have 
seen indicate that the membership grew because a significant number of donors 
simply agreed to call £5 worth of their donations a membership fee. We have 
quite a few regular donors, so it does not seem unlikely to me that the 
observed effect on membership numbers was almost wholly as a result of that.

The possibility of entryism has been a concern for the Board for some time, 
because of low numbers of members. However, again as far as I am aware, the 
jump in membership was not localised to any group other the very diverse group 
who are our regular donors. The result of that will be to make it more 
difficult for any special interest group to become a significant voting block, 
although the proof of that will lie with the next AGM, when we see if the 
number of members voting goes up in line with the increased membership. I have 
a sneaking feeling it might not.

As ever, the trustees will be keen to hear of issues that the community raises, 
and concerned members should always feel that they can ask any trustee for 
items to be raised at the next Board meeting - or earlier, should the matter be 
urgent.

Cheers

--

Doug


> On 10 April 2018 at 18:57 Stevie Benton  wrote:
> 
> " though you are right to imply that the chapter is over-sensitive to 
> criticism... "
> 
> John, I must have missed that bit as I didn't see Katie imply that at 
> all. If anything, I think the chapter receives, and always has received, a 
> lot of unwarranted criticism from people who have ill-defined issues with how 
> it operates. Some people have always been very quick to rush to criticism 
> rather than gently join a conversation. Others simply have an axe to grind.
> 
> The chapter is doing a good job. Wouldn't it be nice if we heard people 
> say that more often?
> 
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 6:49 PM, John Byrne  mailto:j...@bodkinprints.co.uk > wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > As very often in recent years, I got a notification of my post sent 
> > an hour or so ago, with completely blank text.  Yet Katie has clearly seen 
> > it, as she quotes me. Have others also got blanks? Can the rather cryptic 
> > instructions for replies be clarified, or is there some bug?  I get the 
> > digest version.  It doesn't exactly encourage people to contribute, and may 
> > be a factor in the much lower activity on this list in recent years. It 
> > never used to happen.
> > 
> > No Katie, I don't think this has much to do with it, though you are 
> > right to imply that the chapter is over-sensitive to criticism...
> > 
> > John/Johnbod
> > 
> > 
> > On 10 April 2018 at 18:37 wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia 
> > mailto:wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia .org wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Send Wikimediauk-l mailing list submissions to
> > wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia mailto:wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia 
> > .org
> > 
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l 
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia 
> > mailto:wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia .org
> > 
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia 
> > mailto:wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia .org
> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Wikimediauk-l digest..."
> > 
> > 
> > Today's Topics:
> > 1. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Charles Matthews) 2. UK 
> > chapter membership numbers (John Byrne) 3. Re: UK chapter membership 
> > numbers (Katie Chan) 4. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Richard Nevell)
> > 
> > 
> > > > > -
> > > 
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 14:25:51 +0100 (BST)
> > > From: Charles Matthews
> > > To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> > > Message-ID: < 
> > > 1623281894.198396.1523366751569@mail2.virginmedia 
> > > mailto:1623281894.198396.1523366751569@mail2.virginmedia .com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> > > 
> > > > > > > On 10 April 2018 at 11:41 Fæ wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > It appears that the jump in numbers was a one-off 
> > > > event, there has
> > > > been no continued 

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers (John Byrne)

[Stevie Benton]

" though you are right to imply that the chapter is over-sensitive to
criticism... "

John, I must have missed that bit as I didn't see Katie imply that at all.
If anything, I think the chapter receives, and always has received, a lot
of unwarranted criticism from people who have ill-defined issues with how
it operates. Some people have always been very quick to rush to criticism
rather than gently join a conversation. Others simply have an axe to grind.

The chapter is doing a good job. Wouldn't it be nice if we heard people say
that more often?

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 6:49 PM, John Byrne  wrote:

> As very often in recent years, I got a notification of my post sent an
> hour or so ago, with completely blank text.  Yet Katie has clearly seen it,
> as she quotes me. Have others also got blanks? Can the rather cryptic
> instructions for replies be clarified, or is there some bug?  I get the
> digest version.  It doesn't exactly encourage people to contribute, and may
> be a factor in the much lower activity on this list in recent years. It
> never used to happen.
>
> No Katie, I don't think this has much to do with it, though you are right
> to imply that the chapter is over-sensitive to criticism...
>
> John/Johnbod
>
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 18:37 wikimediauk-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
>
>
> Send Wikimediauk-l mailing list submissions to
> wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> wikimediauk-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> wikimediauk-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Wikimediauk-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
> 1. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Charles Matthews) 2. UK chapter
> membership numbers (John Byrne) 3. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Katie
> Chan) 4. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Richard Nevell)
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 14:25:51 +0100 (BST)
> From: Charles Matthews
> To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID: <1623281894.198396.1523366751...@mail2.virginmedia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 11:41 Fæ wrote:
>
> It appears that the jump in numbers was a one-off event, there has
> been no continued growth since whatever happened.
>
>
> I don't know what happened. I did correspond with the office about a
> prompt to renew. One could simulate such a "one-off event" by simply asking
> people whose membership had lapsed to renew. I was doing this sort of thing
> for WMUK some seven years ago, so as an explanation it is not far-fetched.
>
> Charles
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:31:33 +0100 (BST)
> From: John Byrne
> To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID: <522111329.168305.1523377893...@email.1and1.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 18:31:14 +0100
> From: Katie Chan
> To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID: <7mbf1d6v6k6decqn08p662nx.1523381474...@email.android.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> Oh I don't know, maybe this "yawning gap" wouldn't be so wide if the
> chapter don't get criticised for both not increasing its membership numbers
> and having increased its membership numbers.
> Just a wide guess
> KTC
>
> Sent from my Samsung device
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> --
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:37:12 +
> From: Richard Nevell
> To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Fae,
>
> My memory could be failing me, but I thought it was explained at the AGM
> that the increase was a result of asking donors to become members.
>
> It sounds like you are more interested in the 'how' of the process and the
> 'who' as you seem dissatisfied with the answer to *why* there was an
> increase. To make sure we're on the same page is that what you meant?
>
> Regards,
> Richard Nevell
>
> PS. Have you had a chance to look into the issue on Commons with the
> conflicting licence for some images from the Portable Antiquities Scheme?
> My question was archived before a reply.
>
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 11:41, Fæ wrote:
>
> Yes, at the AGM the tripling of membership numbers was explained as
> being due to an increase in members joining. No meaningful 

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers (John Byrne)

[John Lubbock]

We welcome constructive criticism, and I am happy to listen to any members'
concerns and ideas for improving Chapter-Community cohesion and
communication. :)

John Lubbock

Communications Coordinator

Wikimedia UK

+44 (0) 203 372 0767



Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Office 1,
Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ.

Wikimedia UK is the national chapter of the global Wikimedia open knowledge
movement. We rely on donations from individuals to support our work to make
knowledge open for all. Have you considered supporting Wikimedia UK? Donate
here .

The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent
non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility
for its contents.*

On 10 April 2018 at 18:49, John Byrne  wrote:

> As very often in recent years, I got a notification of my post sent an
> hour or so ago, with completely blank text.  Yet Katie has clearly seen it,
> as she quotes me. Have others also got blanks? Can the rather cryptic
> instructions for replies be clarified, or is there some bug?  I get the
> digest version.  It doesn't exactly encourage people to contribute, and may
> be a factor in the much lower activity on this list in recent years. It
> never used to happen.
>
> No Katie, I don't think this has much to do with it, though you are right
> to imply that the chapter is over-sensitive to criticism...
>
> John/Johnbod
>
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 18:37 wikimediauk-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
>
>
> Send Wikimediauk-l mailing list submissions to
> wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> wikimediauk-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> wikimediauk-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Wikimediauk-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
> 1. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Charles Matthews) 2. UK chapter
> membership numbers (John Byrne) 3. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Katie
> Chan) 4. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Richard Nevell)
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 14:25:51 +0100 (BST)
> From: Charles Matthews
> To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID: <1623281894.198396.1523366751...@mail2.virginmedia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 11:41 Fæ wrote:
>
> It appears that the jump in numbers was a one-off event, there has
> been no continued growth since whatever happened.
>
>
> I don't know what happened. I did correspond with the office about a
> prompt to renew. One could simulate such a "one-off event" by simply asking
> people whose membership had lapsed to renew. I was doing this sort of thing
> for WMUK some seven years ago, so as an explanation it is not far-fetched.
>
> Charles
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:31:33 +0100 (BST)
> From: John Byrne
> To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID: <522111329.168305.1523377893...@email.1and1.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 18:31:14 +0100
> From: Katie Chan
> To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID: <7mbf1d6v6k6decqn08p662nx.1523381474...@email.android.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> Oh I don't know, maybe this "yawning gap" wouldn't be so wide if the
> chapter don't get criticised for both not increasing its membership numbers
> and having increased its membership numbers.
> Just a wide guess
> KTC
>
> Sent from my Samsung device
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> --
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:37:12 +
> From: Richard Nevell
> To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Fae,
>
> My memory could be failing me, but I thought it was explained at the AGM
> that the increase was a result of asking donors to become members.
>
> It sounds like you are more interested in the 'how' of the process and the
> 'who' as you seem dissatisfied with the answer to *why* there was an
> increase. To make sure we're on the same page is that what you meant?
>
> 

[Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers (John Byrne)

[John Byrne]

As very often in recent years, I got a notification of my post sent an hour or so ago, with completely blank text.  Yet Katie has clearly seen it, as she quotes me. Have others also got blanks? Can the rather cryptic instructions for replies be clarified, or is there some bug?  I get the digest version.  It doesn't exactly encourage people to contribute, and may be a factor in the much lower activity on this list in recent years. It never used to happen.No Katie, I don't think this has much to do with it, though you are right to imply that the chapter is over-sensitive to criticism...John/JohnbodOn 10 April 2018 at 18:37 wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:Send Wikimediauk-l mailing list submissions to wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.orgTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia.orgYou can reach the person managing the list at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.orgWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of Wikimediauk-l digest..."Today's Topics: 1. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Charles Matthews) 2. UK chapter membership numbers (John Byrne) 3. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Katie Chan) 4. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Richard Nevell)Message: 1Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 14:25:51 +0100 (BST)From: Charles Matthews To: UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbersMessage-ID: <1623281894.198396.1523366751569@mail2.virginmedia.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8On 10 April 2018 at 11:41 Fæ wrote:It appears that the jump in numbers was a one-off event, there hasbeen no continued growth since whatever happened.I don't know what happened. I did correspond with the office about a prompt to renew. One could simulate such a "one-off event" by simply asking people whose membership had lapsed to renew. I was doing this sort of thing for WMUK some seven years ago, so as an explanation it is not far-fetched.CharlesMessage: 2Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:31:33 +0100 (BST)From: John Byrne To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.orgSubject: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbersMessage-ID: <522111329.168305.1523377893491@email.1and1.co.uk>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: Message: 3Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 18:31:14 +0100From: Katie Chan To: UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbersMessage-ID: <7mbf1d6v6k6decqn08p662nx.1523381474669@email.android.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Oh I don't know, maybe this "yawning gap" wouldn't be so wide if the chapter don't get criticised for both not increasing its membership numbers and having increased its membership numbers.Just a wide guessKTCSent from my Samsung device-- next part --An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: Message: 4Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:37:12 +From: Richard Nevell To: UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbersMessage-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"Dear Fae,My memory could be failing me, but I thought it was explained at the AGMthat the increase was a result of asking donors to become members.It sounds like you are more interested in the 'how' of the process and the'who' as you seem dissatisfied with the answer to *why* there was anincrease. To make sure we're on the same page is that what you meant?Regards,Richard NevellPS. Have you had a chance to look into the issue on Commons with theconflicting licence for some images from the Portable Antiquities Scheme?My question was archived before a reply.On 10 April 2018 at 11:41, Fæ wrote:Yes, at the AGM the tripling of membership numbers was explained asbeing due to an increase in members joining. No meaningful facts werepresented to the members, but the impression given by the Chair andthe CEO was that there would be more information publicly available.My question was "why". Sharing information about any discussion thetrustees have had on improving protection against entryism, would behealthy for transparency, as would sharing exactly what happened thatcaused this massive, overnight, leap in membership totals. Currently,there is zero information on the nature of who joined, which may havebeen down to how they joined. As an example, if 351 people joined atan academic conference in London, then the people joining would beacademics who go to events in London and if the 351 new members werefound due to appeals by the CEO on Facebook, then the new memberswould be limited to people who follow or network with the CEO onFacebook.It appears that the jump in numbers was a one-off event, there hasbeen no continued growth since whatever happened. Should the chapterstart maintaining the published membership report again, then it willbe possible for people apart from