Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Martin Poulter]

This is an easy confusion to make, and it could perhaps be sorted out
with a "nutshell" sentence at the top of the page.

On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 8:24 AM, Chris Keating
 wrote:
>
>> Or to break it down; it is not a policy for volunteers. But a policy for
>> staff interacting with volunteers.
>>
>> Right?
>>
>> Tom
>
>
> Yup!
>
> Chris
>
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Gordon Joly]

On 18/02/2012 00:21, Chris Keating wrote:
So I hope this goes some way to addressing your concern. Happy to talk 
about it at a meetup sometime (and I'm sure other board members would 
be as well)


Chris
Yes, thanks, and we should talk! I think this is issue highlights my 
concerns about the Wikimedia UK in relation to the wider extant wiki 
community of volunteers.


Gordo


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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Chris Keating]

> Or to break it down; it is not a policy *for *volunteers. But a policy
> for staff interacting with volunteers.
>
> Right?
>
> Tom
>

Yup!

Chris
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Thomas Morton]

Or to break it down; it is not a policy *for *volunteers. But a policy for
staff interacting with volunteers.

Right?

Tom

On 18 February 2012 00:21, Chris Keating  wrote:

>
>> The housing association has a "volunteer policy", and the application
>> pack was 34 pages in length (I think that has changed). They have a lot of
>> volunteering effort. But there is a real divide between those are
>> "official" volunteers and those who contribute to the community in
>> different ways. What bugs me is some will get awards, get their picture
>> taken, get invited to special events and others will just on with it.
>>
>> Wikipedia started as a volunteer effort. Wikimedia UK wanted to label
>> some people as volunteers, since those volunteers will take take part
>> (online and offline we assume) at workshops, competitions, hack days, GLAM
>> events etc etc run by the organization.
>
>
> I think I understand, though my brain may be frazzled by spending all of
> today debating the finer points of Wikimedia movement fundraising. And I
> empathise, because I've often found myself spending more energy on my
> "spare time" commitments (including this one, sometimes) than I do on my
> day job.
>
> But really I think this policy -
> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_Policy - has the opposite effect
> to what you're worried about.
>
> What it says, in summary, is:
> * The most important thing to our organisation is the impact of people who
> are contributing their time voluntarily
> * Staff exist to support the work of those volunteers (not replace it)
> * As part of the appraisals or our staff, we're going to talk about not
> only how they are supporting volunteers, but whether there is anything that
> they're doing that volunteers can and are willing to do, even if this is a
> bit less convenient for the staff member concerned.
>
> Really, we are going to great lengths to find staff who "get it" about the
> Wikimedia movement in general and this in particular. It's probably the
> biggest single thing we care about when recruiting staff.
>
> So I hope this goes some way to addressing your concern. Happy to talk
> about it at a meetup sometime (and I'm sure other board members would be as
> well)
>
> Chris
>
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>
>
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Chris Keating]

>
>
> The housing association has a "volunteer policy", and the application pack
> was 34 pages in length (I think that has changed). They have a lot of
> volunteering effort. But there is a real divide between those are
> "official" volunteers and those who contribute to the community in
> different ways. What bugs me is some will get awards, get their picture
> taken, get invited to special events and others will just on with it.
>
> Wikipedia started as a volunteer effort. Wikimedia UK wanted to label some
> people as volunteers, since those volunteers will take take part (online
> and offline we assume) at workshops, competitions, hack days, GLAM events
> etc etc run by the organization.


I think I understand, though my brain may be frazzled by spending all of
today debating the finer points of Wikimedia movement fundraising. And I
empathise, because I've often found myself spending more energy on my
"spare time" commitments (including this one, sometimes) than I do on my
day job.

But really I think this policy -
http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_Policy - has the opposite effect to
what you're worried about.

What it says, in summary, is:
* The most important thing to our organisation is the impact of people who
are contributing their time voluntarily
* Staff exist to support the work of those volunteers (not replace it)
* As part of the appraisals or our staff, we're going to talk about not
only how they are supporting volunteers, but whether there is anything that
they're doing that volunteers can and are willing to do, even if this is a
bit less convenient for the staff member concerned.

Really, we are going to great lengths to find staff who "get it" about the
Wikimedia movement in general and this in particular. It's probably the
biggest single thing we care about when recruiting staff.

So I hope this goes some way to addressing your concern. Happy to talk
about it at a meetup sometime (and I'm sure other board members would be as
well)

Chris
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[HJ Mitchell]

If I'm reading Gordon's post right, I think I share some of his hesitancy. I'm 
very wary of anything that makes what we do more formal, and I think it needs 
to be made as easy as possible to start doing things for WMUK - anything that 
makes it more difficult for people to just turn up is a bad thing.

I don't think anybody is naive enough to believe that we shouldn't have any 
formality or paid staff given the amount of (voluntarily donated) money 
involved, but it's essential that we remember that the overwhelming majority of 
the people involved with WMUK do it for pleasure and/or out of passion for the 
Wikimedia movement - those people *are* Wikimedia UK. The staff roles and 
the bureaucracy exist to support them..

That said, Jon's clarification that it was intended primarily for interns/kids 
on work experience/etc put my mind more at rest.

Harry      



 From: Gordon Joly 
To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org; chriskeatingw...@gmail.com 
Sent: Friday, 17 February 2012, 20:34
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies
 
On 17/02/2012 19:05, Gordon Joly wrote:
> On 09/02/2012 17:51, Chris Keating wrote:
>> 
>> Gordon - have you actually read the draft policy - if so is there anything 
>> you particularly object to about it?
>> 
> Yes, I have. Thanks for asking.
> 
> Gordo
> 

Apologies Chris. Let me explain.

I was in full time work in 1999, but since then I started to spend more time as 
a "volunteer" and less time making hard cash. Some say that I might be building 
"social capital". I Chair two active local groups, I have been a Trustee of 
registered charity, I am very active with various parts of my local housing 
association, and also with local NHS bodies.

The housing association has a "volunteer policy", and the application pack was 
34 pages in length (I think that has changed). They have a lot of volunteering 
effort. But there is a real divide between those are "official" volunteers and 
those who contribute to the community in different ways. What bugs me is some 
will get awards, get their picture taken, get invited to special events and 
others will just on with it.

Wikipedia started as a volunteer effort. Wikimedia UK wanted to label some 
people as volunteers, since those volunteers will take take part (online and 
offline we assume) at workshops, competitions, hack days, GLAM events etc etc 
run by the organization.

I guess I need to used to the idea .. bit like Usenet being transformed 
into Google Groups, perhaps (or Dejanews) if you get my drift.

Gordo


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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Gordon Joly]

On 17/02/2012 19:05, Gordon Joly wrote:

On 09/02/2012 17:51, Chris Keating wrote:


Gordon - have you actually read the draft policy - if so is there 
anything you particularly object to about it?



Yes, I have. Thanks for asking.

Gordo



Apologies Chris. Let me explain.

I was in full time work in 1999, but since then I started to spend more 
time as a "volunteer" and less time making hard cash. Some say that I 
might be building "social capital". I Chair two active local groups, I 
have been a Trustee of registered charity, I am very active with various 
parts of my local housing association, and also with local NHS bodies.


The housing association has a "volunteer policy", and the application 
pack was 34 pages in length (I think that has changed). They have a lot 
of volunteering effort. But there is a real divide between those are 
"official" volunteers and those who contribute to the community in 
different ways. What bugs me is some will get awards, get their picture 
taken, get invited to special events and others will just on with it.


Wikipedia started as a volunteer effort. Wikimedia UK wanted to label 
some people as volunteers, since those volunteers will take take part 
(online and offline we assume) at workshops, competitions, hack days, 
GLAM events etc etc run by the organization.


I guess I need to used to the idea .. bit like Usenet being 
transformed into Google Groups, perhaps (or Dejanews) if you get my 
drift.


Gordo


--

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gordon.j...@pobox.com
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Gordon Joly]

On 10/02/2012 00:57, Thomas Dalton wrote:


On Feb 10, 2012 12:48 AM, "Andy Mabbett" > wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 9, 2012 4:14 PM, "Gordon Joly" > wrote:

> >
> > On 09/02/2012 15:14, Richard Symonds wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Hope this makes sense!
> >
> > I have been a volunteer editor at Wikipedia for about since 2004 
(25th January 2004 at 23:13 or possibly earlier).

> >
> > Are these volunteers you mention in the same class?
>
> No. I started editing in 2003. Newbie

My first registered edit was in 2002. Who's the newbie now? ;)




I admit it. I was late. sorry.

But I have been sending email and on the "net" (messing around kermit on 
NSFNET, working on EDXA and YKXA via SERCnet, using Cambridge 
Phoenix/MVS, which was a virtualiazation on IBM mainframes, Usenet, 
Spuddy etc etc) since 1980


:-)

Gordo


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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Gordon Joly]

On 09/02/2012 17:51, Chris Keating wrote:


Gordon - have you actually read the draft policy - if so is there 
anything you particularly object to about it?



Yes, I have. Thanks for asking.

Gordo

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Andrew Turvey]

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:57 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:

> On Feb 10, 2012 12:48 AM, "Andy Mabbett" 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Feb 9, 2012 4:14 PM, "Gordon Joly"  wrote:
> > >
> > > On 09/02/2012 15:14, Richard Symonds wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Hope this makes sense!
> > >
> > > I have been a volunteer editor at Wikipedia for about since 2004 (25th
> January 2004 at 23:13 or possibly earlier).
> > >
> > > Are these volunteers you mention in the same class?
> >
> > No. I started editing in 2003. Newbie
>
> My first registered edit was in 2002. Who's the newbie now? ;)
>

31 October 2005. I'm practically a baby! :)
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Thomas Dalton]

On Feb 10, 2012 12:48 AM, "Andy Mabbett"  wrote:
>
>
> On Feb 9, 2012 4:14 PM, "Gordon Joly"  wrote:
> >
> > On 09/02/2012 15:14, Richard Symonds wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Hope this makes sense!
> >
> > I have been a volunteer editor at Wikipedia for about since 2004 (25th
January 2004 at 23:13 or possibly earlier).
> >
> > Are these volunteers you mention in the same class?
>
> No. I started editing in 2003. Newbie

My first registered edit was in 2002. Who's the newbie now? ;)
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Andy Mabbett]

On Feb 9, 2012 4:14 PM, "Gordon Joly"  wrote:
>
> On 09/02/2012 15:14, Richard Symonds wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hope this makes sense!
>
> I have been a volunteer editor at Wikipedia for about since 2004 (25th
January 2004 at 23:13 or possibly earlier).
>
> Are these volunteers you mention in the same class?

No. I started editing in 2003. Newbie

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Chris Keating]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Gordon Joly  wrote:

> On 07/02/2012 23:16, Andrew Turvey wrote:
>
>>
>> Volunteer Policy - 
>> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/**Volunteer_Policy
>>
> We are all VOLUNTEERS!
>
>
>
Gordon - have you actually read the draft policy - if so is there anything
you particularly object to about it?

While I can understand  people thinking "why on earth does anything related
to Wikimedia need a policy about what volunteers should be doing?" - this
policy is actually aimed at setting a limit on what *staff* do. For
instance, we want to ensure we don't end up with a group of staff who end
up blundering about trying to write Wikipedia articles with no
understanding of how the community works. We want staff who can help
volunteers do things, not do things for them...

Chris
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Thomas Dalton]

On Feb 9, 2012 4:14 PM, "Gordon Joly"  wrote:
>
> On 09/02/2012 15:14, Richard Symonds wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hope this makes sense!
>
> I have been a volunteer editor at Wikipedia for about since 2004 (25th
January 2004 at 23:13 or possibly earlier).
>
> Are these volunteers you mention in the same class?

While the current draft recognises the role of volunteers in the wider
movement, it is primarily about the role of volunteers in the chapter.
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Gordon Joly]

On 09/02/2012 15:14, Richard Symonds wrote:


Hope this makes sense!
I have been a volunteer editor at Wikipedia for about since 2004 (25th 
January 2004 at 23:13 or possibly earlier).


Are these volunteers you mention in the same class?

Gordo


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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Richard Symonds]

Except me!

Basically, the volunteer policy tries to draw a line between what staff 
do, and what volunteers do. It also tries to to make everything as open 
as possible: for example, releasing financial statements and reports 
openly on the wiki, even if they make for dull reading. That makes sure 
that volunteers are still at the very heart of WMUK, and keeps me where 
I should be - off to one side, doing all the paperwork.


For example: it's not my job at WMUK to give media interviews, although 
I will if no volunteers are available. What would be much better is to 
have volunteers trained to do media interviews - WMUK's job is to make 
sure that training happens.


Hope this makes sense!

Richard

On 09/02/2012 15:07, Gordon Joly wrote:

On 07/02/2012 23:16, Andrew Turvey wrote:


Volunteer Policy - http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_Policy

We are all VOLUNTEERS!


Gordo




Richard Symonds
Office&  Development Manager
Wikimedia UK
+44 (0) 207 065 0991
--
Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited, a Charitable Company
Registered in England and Wales, No: 6741827. Charity No:1144513 Office: 4th 
Floor, Development House,  56-64 Leonard Street,
London EC2A 4LT.
Wikimedia UK is the local chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent non-profit
organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for
its contents.


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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Jon Davies]

Indeed.

Quoting Gordon Joly :


On 07/02/2012 23:16, Andrew Turvey wrote:


Volunteer Policy - http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_Policy

We are all VOLUNTEERS!


Gordo


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tweet @jonatreesdavies

Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited.
Wiki UK Ltd is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England  
and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513
Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House,  56-64 Leonard Street,  
London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom.

Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who  
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent  
non-profit organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor  
responsibility for its contents.


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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Gordon Joly]

On 07/02/2012 23:16, Andrew Turvey wrote:


Volunteer Policy - http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_Policy

We are all VOLUNTEERS!


Gordo


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[Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia UK staff policies

[Andrew Turvey]

At the board meeting this weekend, we are planning to adopt a number of
policies that will give us a good basis for future operation of the chapter
now we are professionalising and growing. These include:

Staff Policies - http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Staff_Policies

Volunteer Policy - http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_Policy

Trustee Code of Conduct -
http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Trustee_Code_of_Conduct

We would welcome any comments or suggestions through editing the policies
directly or commenting on the talk pages.

Thanks

-- 
Andrew Turvey
Treasurer, Wikimedia UK

-- 
07403 216 991
treasu...@wikimedia.org.uk

Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited, a Charitable Company
registered in England and Wales,
Registered Company No.: 6741827. Registered Charity No.:1144513
Registered Office: 4th Floor, Development House,  56-64 Leonard Street,
London EC2A 4LT.
Telephone: (+44) (0)207 065 0990.

Wikimedia UK is the local chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent non-profit
organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for
its contents.

Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/
and @wikimediauk
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