[Wikitech-l] FW: [FOSDEM] Your devroom request has not been accepted

[Siebrand Mazeland]

FYI.

This is too bad. It would have been a great opportunity for our project to
go forward by bringing a substantial number of developers together in the
official part of FOSDEM 2009.

On the other hand: I and a few others will definitely be going to FOSDEM
2009[1]. Is it worth exploring possibilities to have some kind of thing in
Brussels in the same weekend, should we try and organise something
completely different as soon as possible, or should we cancel the idea for
the next 6 months altogether?

Cheers! Siebrand

[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:FOSDEM_2009

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Pascal Bleser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Verzonden: maandag 1 december 2008 1:37
Aan: Siebrand Mazeland
CC: FOSDEM DevRooms
Onderwerp: [FOSDEM] Your devroom request has not been accepted

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

We're sorry to give you bad news, but your developer room request for FOSDEM
2009 has not been accepted.

We realize that this must be disappointing news, but unfortunately we don't
have a sufficient number of rooms to our disposal to cover all requests.
Just to clarify: your request is perfectly valid, but we had to pick.

Thanks for your interest in FOSDEM, nevertheless.

- --
  -o) Pascal Bleser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://www.fosdem.org
  /\\ FOSDEM 2009 :: 7 + 8 February 2009 in Brussels
 _\_v Free and Opensource Software Developers European Meeting -BEGIN
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[Wikitech-l] Stub quota

[Lars Aronsson]

After some more thought on the origins of stub articles and a 
better overview of the contents of the Swedish Wikipedia, it is 
clear that very few individuals are responsible for creating large 
numbers of stubs, a few years back.  Now, depending on religion 
(mergists, deletionists...), these should either be deleted, 
improved, merged or put on lists of necessary quality 
improvements. Either way, it's a lot of work and it would have 
been better to have stopped those invidiuals back then.  At least 
we want to stop such individuals today, so the same mistake isn't 
repeated while the old mess is being cleaned up.

What we want is to foster a spirit of writing better articles, 
improving the one you started, before you start the next one.

But instead of increased patrolling and speedy deletions, this 
could be implemented in the Mediawiki software.  If a user (logged 
in or IP address) tries to create a new page, their recent 
contribution history could be checked, and if any of their five 
most recently created articles (except redirects) are shorter 
than, say, 300 bytes, they would simply be unable to create 
another article.  This would be a very soft kind of blocking (as 
soon as you have improved your existing article, you can start the 
next one), each case being completely an affair between the user 
and the software, not involving opinions of individual admins.

Such an extension (is there an "article creation hook"?) could be 
fully parameterized, so each community could decide where to set 
the limits (5 recently created articles, 300 bytes), and what 
message to show to the user who violates these limits.

Has this been suggested before?  Has it been implemented?  Would 
it be a really bad idea to suggest this?


-- 
  Lars Aronsson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se

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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Foundation-l] EN Wikipedia Editing Statistics

[Neil Harris]

Robert Rohde wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 10:29 PM, Nikola Smolenski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> On Monday 01 December 2008 04:09:11 Robert Rohde wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Neil Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>   
>> wrote:
>> 
 Is the data replicated anywhere outside the Tampa data centre (such as
 in Amsterdam or Seoul)? If not, just one fire, flood or hurricane could
 destroy the entire en: Wikipedia.
 
>>> There are database mirrors of every wiki, including en, as part of the
>>> toolserver cluster in Amsterdam.
>>>   
>> Unfortunately, enwiki mirror doesn't include article text :(
>> 
>
> Ouch, I hadn't realized they gave up on text replication.  Apparently
> quite a while ago too.  (That will teach me for never bothering to
> learn to use the toolserver.)
>
> So I guess we are back to the meteor impact destroys Wikipedia scenario.
>
> -Robert Rohde
>   
That's scary: are there any off-site backups of the full database, 
including the article text, made anywhere, other than the constantly 
failing dumps? Given that Wikipedia is the Wikimedia Foundation's 
principal asset, I would hope that fixing this single point of failure 
would be a priority for the Foundation.

-- Neil


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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Foundation-l] EN Wikipedia Editing Statistics

[Daniel Kinzler]

> That's scary: are there any off-site backups of the full database, 
> including the article text, made anywhere, other than the constantly 
> failing dumps? Given that Wikipedia is the Wikimedia Foundation's 
> principal asset, I would hope that fixing this single point of failure 
> would be a priority for the Foundation.

Yes, all databases are replicated to another cluster located in amsterdam.

But you are right: the situation does suck. We got the new hardware to get
working dumps again now, we just have to sit tight and hope this fresh dump of
enwiki works. If it does, things should go smothly again.

-- daniel

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Stub quota

[Aryeh Gregor]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:29 AM, Lars Aronsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> After some more thought on the origins of stub articles and a
> better overview of the contents of the Swedish Wikipedia, it is
> clear that very few individuals are responsible for creating large
> numbers of stubs, a few years back.  Now, depending on religion
> (mergists, deletionists...), these should either be deleted,
> improved, merged or put on lists of necessary quality
> improvements. Either way, it's a lot of work and it would have
> been better to have stopped those invidiuals back then.  At least
> we want to stop such individuals today, so the same mistake isn't
> repeated while the old mess is being cleaned up.

That depends on your point of view.  An inclusionist might well say
that they should be kept and improved, but that in the meantime,
better to have the stubs than not.  After all, that might encourage
people to improve them more than having nothing at all; it allows them
to be categorized so that people interested in the subject can go
through the stubs in their specialty systematically; a couple of
sentences can sometimes be useful; etc.  That would be my personal
position, in fact.

> But instead of increased patrolling and speedy deletions, this
> could be implemented in the Mediawiki software.  If a user (logged
> in or IP address) tries to create a new page, their recent
> contribution history could be checked, and if any of their five
> most recently created articles (except redirects) are shorter
> than, say, 300 bytes, they would simply be unable to create
> another article.  This would be a very soft kind of blocking (as
> soon as you have improved your existing article, you can start the
> next one), each case being completely an affair between the user
> and the software, not involving opinions of individual admins.
>
> Such an extension (is there an "article creation hook"?) could be
> fully parameterized, so each community could decide where to set
> the limits (5 recently created articles, 300 bytes), and what
> message to show to the user who violates these limits.

It would be quite easy to do this.  However, usually we shy away from
granular access control in the software.  The usual thought is that
this sort of policy should be enforced by the community, not the
software.  Rather than outright blocking edits, people could keep an
eye on article creation and suggest to prolific stub creators that
they spend more effort on each article.  Likewise there's no facility
for blocking a user from a specific activity (e.g., a specific page,
namespace, uploading, etc.): just tell them not to do it, and threaten
to block them from everything if they refuse.

Of course, I'm not the one who gets to decide whether a particular
extension should be allowed, so this is just my take on it.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Stub quota

[Bence Damokos]

On the Hungarian Wikipedia we have implemented a community solution for
this:articles that do not contain a minimum number of facts (let's say a
minimum of 10 pieces of information on the subject) get tagged as
"sub-stubs" and after 7 days if there is no improvement, they are deleted.

Best regards,
Bence Damokos

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:29 AM, Lars Aronsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> After some more thought on the origins of stub articles and a
> better overview of the contents of the Swedish Wikipedia, it is
> clear that very few individuals are responsible for creating large
> numbers of stubs, a few years back.  Now, depending on religion
> (mergists, deletionists...), these should either be deleted,
> improved, merged or put on lists of necessary quality
> improvements. Either way, it's a lot of work and it would have
> been better to have stopped those invidiuals back then.  At least
> we want to stop such individuals today, so the same mistake isn't
> repeated while the old mess is being cleaned up.
>
> What we want is to foster a spirit of writing better articles,
> improving the one you started, before you start the next one.
>
> But instead of increased patrolling and speedy deletions, this
> could be implemented in the Mediawiki software.  If a user (logged
> in or IP address) tries to create a new page, their recent
> contribution history could be checked, and if any of their five
> most recently created articles (except redirects) are shorter
> than, say, 300 bytes, they would simply be unable to create
> another article.  This would be a very soft kind of blocking (as
> soon as you have improved your existing article, you can start the
> next one), each case being completely an affair between the user
> and the software, not involving opinions of individual admins.
>
> Such an extension (is there an "article creation hook"?) could be
> fully parameterized, so each community could decide where to set
> the limits (5 recently created articles, 300 bytes), and what
> message to show to the user who violates these limits.
>
> Has this been suggested before?  Has it been implemented?  Would
> it be a really bad idea to suggest this?
>
>
> --
>  Lars Aronsson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>  Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Stub quota

[Thomas Dalton]

> But instead of increased patrolling and speedy deletions, this
> could be implemented in the Mediawiki software.  If a user (logged
> in or IP address) tries to create a new page, their recent
> contribution history could be checked, and if any of their five
> most recently created articles (except redirects) are shorter
> than, say, 300 bytes, they would simply be unable to create
> another article.  This would be a very soft kind of blocking (as
> soon as you have improved your existing article, you can start the
> next one), each case being completely an affair between the user
> and the software, not involving opinions of individual admins.
>
> Such an extension (is there an "article creation hook"?) could be
> fully parameterized, so each community could decide where to set
> the limits (5 recently created articles, 300 bytes), and what
> message to show to the user who violates these limits.
>
> Has this been suggested before?  Has it been implemented?  Would
> it be a really bad idea to suggest this?

I can't see any reason why it couldn't be implemented (I don't know
how easy it would be). Before anyone actually spends time coding it,
though, is there a consensus on the Swedish Wikipedia to use such a
system or is it just your idea? If it's the latter, then you should
probably establish a consensus first (since I'm not sure other
projects would use the extension, it's not really worth writing if you
aren't going to use it).

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Stub quota

[Andre Engels]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:29 AM, Lars Aronsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> But instead of increased patrolling and speedy deletions, this
> could be implemented in the Mediawiki software.  If a user (logged
> in or IP address) tries to create a new page, their recent
> contribution history could be checked, and if any of their five
> most recently created articles (except redirects) are shorter
> than, say, 300 bytes, they would simply be unable to create
> another article.  This would be a very soft kind of blocking (as
> soon as you have improved your existing article, you can start the
> next one), each case being completely an affair between the user
> and the software, not involving opinions of individual admins.

Sounds like a bad idea. If the community doesn't want these stubs, the
better way to act would be to create an easy method to get these pages
deleted. A system such as you propose would punish people who make
short pages for perfectly good reasons (like disambiguation pages),
and would likely be subverted using lengthenings that make the article
worse rather than better (like subst-ing rather than including
complicated templates).


-- 
André Engels, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Stub quota

[Tei]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:29 AM, Lars Aronsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ..
> But instead of increased patrolling and speedy deletions, this
> could be implemented in the Mediawiki software.  If a user (logged
> in or IP address) tries to create a new page, their recent
> contribution history could be checked, and if any of their five
> most recently created articles (except redirects) are shorter
> than, say, 300 bytes, they would simply be unable to create
> another article.


Or maybe just a warning.  Most people act on good faith (Thats why a
wikipedia is possible).

Another idea:
A big link "Do you want to contribute to the wikipedia?"  -- click --> "Here
is a list of articles you can help expanding".  So these stubs expand to
good fun fat wikipedia articles :-)

And If you want a evil solution, here is one:

code a  "Category:Recyble-bin",  any article on that category with edits old
than 31 days, get deleted.




-- 
--
ℱin del ℳensaje.
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Non-latin characters broken in donation comments

[Brion Vibber]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Jesse Plamondon-Willard wrote:
>> Names with non-Latin characters in the donation comments are broken
>> and outputting as question marks. Some people are understandably
>> unhappy that their names are not appearing next to their donations.

*Comments* are fine. *Donor names* are incorrectly encoded.

Tei wrote:
> Is me or maybeneed   charset="*UTF-8*"  added to it?

Considering that the part that's broken isn't even *on* our form, I'm
pretty sure it's not something on our form. :) The name gets put in at
PayPal's forms, and is passed on to us with the payment completion data.

- -- brion
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[Wikitech-l] terms & conditions checkbox on registering

[Falko Richter]

Hello guys,

we´re having a wonderful wiki based on mediawiki but our legal deparment 
said we should include some terms and conditions on the registration 
process. We tried to find an extension which provide a simple checkbox 
with a text in the registration page but we cannot find anything.

We don´t really want to touch the mediawiki files so i would prefer a 
solution in the skin files or with an extension. We tried to find an 
existing mediawiki with terms and conditions, but there does not seem to 
be one.

Here my question:
Do you know an extension which will include terms and conditions 
checkbox to the register page?
Do you know a theme that includes such a terms&conditions checkbox?

Which files do I need to touch to include such a feature? where is the 
register page defined, and where is it prozessed?

thank you very much

Falko

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Non-latin characters broken in donation comments

[Marco Schuster]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:02 PM, Brion Vibber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tei wrote:
>> Is me or maybeneed   charset="*UTF-8*"  added to it?
>
> Considering that the part that's broken isn't even *on* our form, I'm
> pretty sure it's not something on our form. :) The name gets put in at
> PayPal's forms, and is passed on to us with the payment completion data.

Can you reverse the buggy encoding of Paypal (iconv)?

Marco

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Re: [Wikitech-l] terms & conditions checkbox on registering

[Roan Kattouw]

Falko Richter schreef:
> Hello guys,
>
> we´re having a wonderful wiki based on mediawiki but our legal deparment 
> said we should include some terms and conditions on the registration 
> process. We tried to find an extension which provide a simple checkbox 
> with a text in the registration page but we cannot find anything.
>
> We don´t really want to touch the mediawiki files so i would prefer a 
> solution in the skin files or with an extension. We tried to find an 
> existing mediawiki with terms and conditions, but there does not seem to 
> be one.
>   
Can't you just include some sentence like "By registering you agree to 
the Terms and Conditions (link)"? Wikipedia does much the same thing by 
putting a notice underneath the edit box saying (among other things) 
"You irrevocably agree to release your contributions under the terms of 
the GFDL**".

Roan Kattouw (Catrope)

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Non-latin characters broken in donation comments

[Brion Vibber]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Marco Schuster wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:02 PM, Brion Vibber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Tei wrote:
>>> Is me or maybeneed   charset="*UTF-8*"  added to it?
>> Considering that the part that's broken isn't even *on* our form, I'm
>> pretty sure it's not something on our form. :) The name gets put in at
>> PayPal's forms, and is passed on to us with the payment completion data.
> 
> Can you reverse the buggy encoding of Paypal (iconv)?

Assuming it's buggy, perhaps. First we need to confirm simply that
PayPal is set to send us UTF-8 data... :)

- -- brion
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[Wikitech-l] FlaggedRevs statistics?

[Bence Damokos]

There are nice statistics at:
http://toolserver.org/~aka/cgi-bin/reviewcnt.cgi?lang=english&action=overview,Is
it possible to have similar for the other projects, as well, that have the
flaggedrevs extension enabled?

Best regards,
Bence Damokos
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Re: [Wikitech-l] FlaggedRevs statistics?

[Daniel ~ Leinad]

> There are nice statistics at:
> http://toolserver.org/~aka/cgi-bin/reviewcnt.cgi?lang=english&action=overview,Is
> it possible to have similar for the other projects, as well, that have the
> flaggedrevs extension enabled?

You should ask user aka. Similar request for pl.wiki pending, because
toolserver has bug https://jira.toolserver.org/browse/TS-166

Leinad

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Re: [Wikitech-l] FlaggedRevs statistics?

[Bence Damokos]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Daniel ~ Leinad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> > There are nice statistics at:
> >
> http://toolserver.org/~aka/cgi-bin/reviewcnt.cgi?lang=english&action=overview,
> <
> http://toolserver.org/~aka/cgi-bin/reviewcnt.cgi?lang=english&action=overview
> >Is
> > it possible to have similar for the other projects, as well, that have
> the
> > flaggedrevs extension enabled?
>
> You should ask user aka. Similar request for pl.wiki pending, because
> toolserver has bug https://jira.toolserver.org/browse/TS-166
>
Unfortunately I did not find his contact informations. Could someone please
forward to him or make the necessary requests at the various bug trackers so
that Hungarian WP (as well as the others) could have the same kind of
statistics as there are for the German?

Thanks,
Bence

>
> Leinad
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Foundation-l] EN Wikipedia Editing Statistics

[Brion Vibber]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Neil Harris wrote:
> Is the data replicated anywhere outside the Tampa data centre (such as 
> in Amsterdam or Seoul)?

Yes.

- -- brion
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Foundation-l] EN Wikipedia Editing Statistics

[Brion Vibber]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Daniel Kinzler wrote:
>> That's scary: are there any off-site backups of the full database, 
>> including the article text, made anywhere, other than the constantly 
>> failing dumps? Given that Wikipedia is the Wikimedia Foundation's 
>> principal asset, I would hope that fixing this single point of failure 
>> would be a priority for the Foundation.
> 
> Yes, all databases are replicated to another cluster located in amsterdam.
> 
> But you are right: the situation does suck. We got the new hardware to get
> working dumps again now, we just have to sit tight and hope this fresh dump of
> enwiki works. If it does, things should go smothly again.

Assume it won't, but that new ones after the dump system is retooled a
bit to run in smaller pieces in parallel will.

- -- brion
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Non-latin characters broken in donation comments

[mizusumashi]

Brion Vibber wrote:
> Assuming it's buggy, perhaps. First we need to confirm simply that
> PayPal is set to send us UTF-8 data... :)

Can you send me the raw data fed from PayPal?
If you can, I'll check Japanese character's encoding.


   mizusumashi


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Re: [Wikitech-l] Non-latin characters broken in donation comments

[Brion Vibber]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

mizusumashi wrote:
> Brion Vibber wrote:
>> Assuming it's buggy, perhaps. First we need to confirm simply that
>> PayPal is set to send us UTF-8 data... :)
> 
> Can you send me the raw data fed from PayPal?
> If you can, I'll check Japanese character's encoding.

No as it contains private data, but we can check the encoding ourselves
once we've gotten in there.

- -- brion
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Re: [Wikitech-l] terms & conditions checkbox on registering

[Brianna Laugher]

2008/12/2 Falko Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Hello guys,
>
> we´re having a wonderful wiki based on mediawiki but our legal deparment
> said we should include some terms and conditions on the registration
> process. We tried to find an extension which provide a simple checkbox
> with a text in the registration page but we cannot find anything.
>
> We don´t really want to touch the mediawiki files so i would prefer a
> solution in the skin files or with an extension. We tried to find an
> existing mediawiki with terms and conditions, but there does not seem to
> be one.
>
> Here my question:
> Do you know an extension which will include terms and conditions
> checkbox to the register page?
>

Actually the ConfirmAccount extension includes such a Terms of Service
thing. 

But then you have to manually approve each account. Perhaps you can tweak
this extension so that all requests are automatically granted.

cheers
Brianna

-- 
They've just been waiting in a mountain for the right moment:
http://modernthings.org/
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Non-latin characters broken in donation comments

[mizusumashi]

Brion Vibber wrote:
> No as it contains private data, but we can check the encoding ourselves
> once we've gotten in there.

I see. Thank you for the reply.


   mizusumashi



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Re: [Wikitech-l] terms & conditions checkbox on registering

[Jason Schulz]

I knew someone was going to mention that sooner or later :D

--
From: "Brianna Laugher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:46 PM
To: "Wikimedia developers" 
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] terms & conditions checkbox on registering

> 2008/12/2 Falko Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>> Hello guys,
>>
>> we´re having a wonderful wiki based on mediawiki but our legal deparment
>> said we should include some terms and conditions on the registration
>> process. We tried to find an extension which provide a simple checkbox
>> with a text in the registration page but we cannot find anything.
>>
>> We don´t really want to touch the mediawiki files so i would prefer a
>> solution in the skin files or with an extension. We tried to find an
>> existing mediawiki with terms and conditions, but there does not seem to
>> be one.
>>
>> Here my question:
>> Do you know an extension which will include terms and conditions
>> checkbox to the register page?
>>
>
> Actually the ConfirmAccount extension includes such a Terms of Service
> thing. 
>
> But then you have to manually approve each account. Perhaps you can tweak
> this extension so that all requests are automatically granted.
>
> cheers
> Brianna
>
> -- 
> They've just been waiting in a mountain for the right moment:
> http://modernthings.org/
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> 

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