[Wikitech-l] "This wiki has a problem" error page lacks beg notice

[David Gerard]

I just got:

This wiki has a problem
Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties.
Try waiting a few minutes and reloading.
(Cannot contact the database server: No working slave server: Unknown
error (10.0.2.185))

What's missing? A donation beg notice! Downtime being, of course, our
most profitable product ...

(I also recall there being a multilingual error page. Is this one
en:wp-specific?)


- d.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Google Summer of Code: accepted projects

[Michael Dale]

Brion Vibber wrote:
>> yea again if we only issue the big resize operation on initial upload
>> with a memory friendly in-place library like vips I think we will be
>> oky. Since the user just waited like 10-15 minutes to upload their huge
>> image waiting an additional 10-30s at that point for thumbnail and
>> "instant gratification" of seeing your image on the upload page ... is
>> not such a big deal.
>> 
>
> Well, what about the 5 million other users browsing Special:Newimages? 
> We don't want 50 simultaneous attempts to build that first 
> über-thumbnail. :)
>   

Right .. I am just saying the simples path is integrate it into the 
upload flow. ie The image won't be a known asset until that first 
uber-thumbnail is generated. Once that happens then its available for 
inclusion and listed on Newimages. The user won't notice that extra 
10-15 second delay because it will be part of the uploading flow.

i.e the user is already waiting for their file to be uploaded a few 
extra seconds of server side processing integrated into that waiting 
won't be noticed that much and will be easier to integrate with the 
existing system. (instead of a new concept of "resource is being 
processed please wait"

We do eventually need a "this resource is being processed" concept but I 
don't know if its good project for the summer of code student to target.

--michael

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Re: [Wikitech-l] "This wiki has a problem" error page lacks beg notice

[Brion Vibber]

On 4/27/09 8:25 AM, David Gerard wrote:
> I just got:
>
> This wiki has a problem
> Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties.
> Try waiting a few minutes and reloading.
> (Cannot contact the database server: No working slave server: Unknown
> error (10.0.2.185))
>
> What's missing? A donation beg notice! Downtime being, of course, our
> most profitable product ...

At the moment, general downtime probably means the donation page is down 
too. :)

> (I also recall there being a multilingual error page. Is this one
> en:wp-specific?)

You're thinking of the squid proxy error page, which displays when the 
backend servers can't be reached. This is a MediaWiki internal error.

-- brion

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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Foundation-l] site notice not accessible to users with disabilities

[Aryeh Gregor]

(replying to foundation-l post on wikitech-l)

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Brion Vibber  wrote:
> So far this is the best way to provide a dynamic notice to the majority
> of our visitors without causing problems for others. If you have
> technical suggestions for alternate implementations, they're welcome in
> a more relevant channel such as wikitech-l.

The only non-script solution that seems like it would work well is
 from HTML5:

http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/embedded-content-0.html#attr-iframe-seamless

This solves the current problem that s must have a
prespecified height, which is why we can't use them now.  Of course,
 isn't necessarily terribly well supported in weird browsers,
but it would be better than JavaScript.

One possible way we might have more graceful fallback now is to have
some  content.  One possibility would be an 
containing the content (which might be the wrong height, but oh well);
another would be to have a message pointing to the announcements.  Of
course, it would be non-dismissible without JavaScript, so it would be
best to keep it less obtrusive if possible.  So the message seems like
a better idea.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] "This wiki has a problem" error page lacks beg notice

[David Gerard]

2009/4/27 Brion Vibber :
> On 4/27/09 8:25 AM, David Gerard wrote:

>> What's missing? A donation beg notice! Downtime being, of course, our
>> most profitable product ...

> At the moment, general downtime probably means the donation page is down
> too. :)


We should probably plan for that, actually, and put up an automatic
mirror not served from WMF machines ...


- d.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] "This wiki has a problem" error page lacks beg notice

[Brion Vibber]

On 4/27/09 11:41 AM, David Gerard wrote:
> 2009/4/27 Brion Vibber:
>> On 4/27/09 8:25 AM, David Gerard wrote:
>
>>> What's missing? A donation beg notice! Downtime being, of course, our
>>> most profitable product ...
>
>> At the moment, general downtime probably means the donation page is down
>> too. :)
>
>
> We should probably plan for that, actually, and put up an automatic
> mirror not served from WMF machines ...

The tricky part is having it survive the traffic. ;)

-- brion

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Re: [Wikitech-l] "This wiki has a problem" error page lacks beg notice

[David Gerard]

2009/4/27 Brion Vibber :
> On 4/27/09 11:41 AM, David Gerard wrote:
>> 2009/4/27 Brion Vibber:

>>> At the moment, general downtime probably means the donation page is down
>>> too. :)

>> We should probably plan for that, actually, and put up an automatic
>> mirror not served from WMF machines ...

> The tricky part is having it survive the traffic. ;)


*cough* yeah, I remember when Wikipedia downtime would immediately
kill berlios.de ...


- d.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] "This wiki has a problem" error page lacks beg notice

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/4/27 Brion Vibber :
> On 4/27/09 11:41 AM, David Gerard wrote:
>> 2009/4/27 Brion Vibber:
>>> On 4/27/09 8:25 AM, David Gerard wrote:
>>
 What's missing? A donation beg notice! Downtime being, of course, our
 most profitable product ...
>>
>>> At the moment, general downtime probably means the donation page is down
>>> too. :)
>>
>>
>> We should probably plan for that, actually, and put up an automatic
>> mirror not served from WMF machines ...
>
> The tricky part is having it survive the traffic. ;)

If that message is for when MediaWiki breaks, presumably that means
the squids are still up and running and, obviously, they can survive
the traffic. Could the squids run a simplified version of the donation
software themselves? It doesn't need to have all the interesting
comments and statistics and stuff that we usually have. In fact, it
doesn't need much more than a link to paypal.

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[Wikitech-l] Wikipedia - openID provider?

[Strainu]

Hi

Are there any plans to make Wikipedia a opneID provider? I would really be
interesting if we could log on to wikipedia-replated sites with the same ID.

Thanks,
  Andrei Cipu
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Re: [Wikitech-l] "This wiki has a problem" error page lacks beg notice

[Casey Brown]

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:25 AM, David Gerard  wrote:
> (I also recall there being a multilingual error page. Is this one
> en:wp-specific?)
>

That's a different one:  ;-)

-- 
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent to
this address will probably get lost.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia - openID provider?

[MinuteElectron]

Hello,

2009/4/27 Strainu :
> Are there any plans to make Wikipedia a opneID provider? I would really be
> interesting if we could log on to wikipedia-replated sites with the same ID.

This is a long term ambition, but is still a work in progress (and is
likely to remain so for some time).

Regards,
Robert Leverington

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia - openID provider?

[Chad]

Is there some benefit with being a provider? Why not
just accept id's for login? There's way too many providers
as it is.

-Chad

On Apr 27, 2009 4:24 PM, "MinuteElectron" 
wrote:

Hello,

2009/4/27 Strainu :

> Are there any plans to make Wikipedia a opneID provider? I would really be
> interesting if we cou...
This is a long term ambition, but is still a work in progress (and is
likely to remain so for some time).

Regards,
Robert Leverington

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia - openID provider?

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/4/27 Chad :
> Is there some benefit with being a provider? Why not
> just accept id's for login? There's way too many providers
> as it is.

It's too late. You need to make that kind of decision when you first
start. Dealing with conflicts when we went over to global accounts
within Wikimedia was hard enough, dealing with them if we went over to
accepting OpenIDs would be a nightmare.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia - openID provider?

[Brion Vibber]

On 4/27/09 1:54 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/4/27 Chad:
>> Is there some benefit with being a provider? Why not
>> just accept id's for login? There's way too many providers
>> as it is.
>
> It's too late. You need to make that kind of decision when you first
> start. Dealing with conflicts when we went over to global accounts
> within Wikimedia was hard enough, dealing with them if we went over to
> accepting OpenIDs would be a nightmare.

Not really, since they'd have their own freakish namespace. :)

-- brion

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia - openID provider?

[MinuteElectron]

Hello,

2009/4/27 Chad :
> Is there some benefit with being a provider? Why not
> just accept id's for login? There's way too many providers
> as it is.

A lot of people have expressed interest in having Wikimedia as their
provider, given the large number of projects that Wikimedia has this
makes sense to some extent. Some people would also enjoy the novelty
value of Wikimedia being their OpenID provider. It may also make the
early stages of deployment and testing easier (perhaps as a prelude to
accepting external providers).

2009/4/27 Thomas Dalton :
> It's too late. You need to make that kind of decision when you first
> start. Dealing with conflicts when we went over to global accounts
> within Wikimedia was hard enough, dealing with them if we went over to
> accepting OpenIDs would be a nightmare.

I think OpenIDs would (should?) be tied to accounts, not used as usernames.

Regards,
Robert Leverington

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia - openID provider?

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/4/27 Brion Vibber :
> On 4/27/09 1:54 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>> 2009/4/27 Chad:
>>> Is there some benefit with being a provider? Why not
>>> just accept id's for login? There's way too many providers
>>> as it is.
>>
>> It's too late. You need to make that kind of decision when you first
>> start. Dealing with conflicts when we went over to global accounts
>> within Wikimedia was hard enough, dealing with them if we went over to
>> accepting OpenIDs would be a nightmare.
>
> Not really, since they'd have their own freakish namespace. :)

So everyone using OpenID would have to have a username with a certain
prefix or something? That would be really annoying.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia - openID provider?

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/4/27 MinuteElectron :
> 2009/4/27 Thomas Dalton :
>> It's too late. You need to make that kind of decision when you first
>> start. Dealing with conflicts when we went over to global accounts
>> within Wikimedia was hard enough, dealing with them if we went over to
>> accepting OpenIDs would be a nightmare.
>
> I think OpenIDs would (should?) be tied to accounts, not used as usernames.

At the moment accounts and usernames are in a very fundamental 1:1
correspondence. It would be quite a major change to do away with that.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia - openID provider?

[MinuteElectron]

Hello,

2009/4/27 Thomas Dalton :
> At the moment accounts and usernames are in a very fundamental 1:1
> correspondence. It would be quite a major change to do away with that.

I meant that when creating an account (or modifying an existing
accounts preferences) you could use an OpenID instead of a password
and use that to log-in and out.

Regards,
Robert Leverington

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia - openID provider?

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/4/27 MinuteElectron :
> Hello,
>
> 2009/4/27 Thomas Dalton :
>> At the moment accounts and usernames are in a very fundamental 1:1
>> correspondence. It would be quite a major change to do away with that.
>
> I meant that when creating an account (or modifying an existing
> accounts preferences) you could use an OpenID instead of a password
> and use that to log-in and out.

I thought the whole point of OpenID was that you didn't have to create
an account on every site, you could just turn up and use your existing
one.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia - openID provider?

[Aryeh Gregor]

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Strainu  wrote:
> Are there any plans to make Wikipedia a opneID provider? I would really be
> interesting if we could log on to wikipedia-replated sites with the same ID.

For my part, I'm firmly against joining the "provider but not
consumer" camp.  It's of no benefit to anyone -- it's easy to get
OpenID providers with better uptimes than us, who are probably at
least as trusted.  On the other hand, it adds a perpetual maintenance
burden, since we'd be total jerks if we didn't support all our OpenID
users forever.

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Thomas Dalton  wrote:
> I thought the whole point of OpenID was that you didn't have to create
> an account on every site, you could just turn up and use your existing
> one.

That's one way to use it.  But sign-up could be made a lot easier even
without OpenID -- really we just need a username and password entered,
not significantly harder than just typing your preexisting OpenID
username.  The real advantage of using OpenID, IMO, is to prevent
users from having to remember seven zillion passwords.  The only
reason it would simplify account creation is if you required your
users to fill out lengthy forms when registering -- which we already
don't.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Tor configuration changes; rolling out IP Block Exemption

[Andrew Garrett]

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Andrew Garrett  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Just a quick note to let everybody know that in a few days I'll be
> changing the TorBlock configuration to require explicit block
> exemption rather than merely being logged in.

>
> To facilitate this, I will also be activating explicit IP block
> exemption on all wikis. Like on English Wikipedia and many other
> wikis, administrators will be able to add users to an "IP block
> exempt" group, which exempts its holder from IP blocks, range blocks
> and autoblocks, *but not explicit user blocks*. This is a helpful,
> albeit inaccessible way to defray some of the problems associated with
> blocking Tor users carte blanche.

I've gone ahead and implemented this. Please tell me if there are any problems.

-- 
Andrew Garrett

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