Re: [Wikitech-l] I need an extra tab.

[Jan Luca]

Hi,

what is the error PHP gives you?

Best regards,
Jan

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: wikitech-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikitech-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] Im Auftrag von Natasha Brown
Gesendet: Montag, 9. August 2010 01:35
An: wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Betreff: [Wikitech-l] I need an extra tab.

Thanks,

I do not know php yet, but I have tryed it anyway, it gives me syntax
mistake 

wfRunHooks( 'SkinTemplateTabs', array( $this,
&$content_actions ) );
} else {//THIS IS THE LINE, 
//IT MIGHT BE BECAUSE OF THE BUG WHICH FOLLOWS 
/* show special page tab */

$content_actions[$this->mTitle->getNamespaceKey()] =
array(
'class' => 'selected',
'text' => wfMsg('nstab-special'),
'href' => $wgRequest->getRequestURL(), //
@bug 2457, 2510  //!!!?
);

wfRunHooks(
'SkinTemplateBuildContentActionUrlsAfterSpecialPage', array(
&$this, &$content_actions ) );

I will be trying.



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Re: [Wikitech-l] Gartering extension-meta data

[Roan Kattouw]

2010/8/9 Jeroen De Dauw :
> Hey,
>
> I'm looking for a way to collect existing extension meta-data from the SVN
> repo and maybe also the extension pages on MediaWiki.org. Does anyone know
> of scripts/tools that already do this?
>
Depending on what metadata you need, the $wgExtensionCredits variable
could be your friend. Note that the extension doesn't need to actually
be installed: in most cases you can get away with just locating the
file that contains the $wgExtensionCredits assignment and require()ing
that file. This will probably fail in some cases, but most setup files
only contain assignments.

Roan Kattouw (Catrope)

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Re: [Wikitech-l] I need an extra tab.

[Natasha Brown]

It gave me 

Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_ELSE, expecting T_FUNCTION in
/home/wikitra2/public_html/w/includes/SkinTemplate.php on line 894 

Then somehow I have managed to delete my LocalSetting.php and I have spend all
night restoring it: I might have learn a bit...

I wish someone Can help me! My site needs an extra tab.


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Re: [Wikitech-l] I need an extra tab.

[Roan Kattouw]

2010/8/9 Natasha Brown :
> It gave me
>
> Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_ELSE, expecting T_FUNCTION in
> /home/wikitra2/public_html/w/includes/SkinTemplate.php on line 894
>
Sounds like you have a missing } somewhere (or one too many).

Roan Kattouw (Catrope)

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Using LanguageConverter for Portuguese Variants

[Helder Geovane]

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 19:19, Roan Kattouw  wrote:

> 2010/8/9 Helder Geovane :
> > Would a "prototype wiki" be a good place to make it possible for
> Portuguese
> > community to test the Language Conversion in practice?
> >
> Sounds good to me personally, although I'll ask some other people to
> weigh in. I personally like the idea of a world where the standard
> response to "hey we wanna play with this thing and it's all coded up
> already" is "sure, lemme set you up with a prototype wiki".
>
> > We are considering[1][2] the possibility of using the system to handle
> > regional differences in the written Portuguese, but it seems that the
> > editors need more contact with the system before they can decide in
> favour
> > or agains an efective use of the conversion system at pt.wikipedia.
> > We have made some drafts of the PHP code[3] which is needed to start, and
> > set of possible global conversion rules for some variants[4].
> >
> > What should we do to have a prototype wiki for this, if that is possible?
> >
> You should start with getting your code in SVN. If it is or can be
> written in a way that makes it easy to disable (or if there's some
> other caveat such as it not doing anything if the conversion tables
> are empty), it can be committed straight to trunk. If this is not
> possible, it can be put in a branch, but trunk would really be
> preferred here, and disableability should be relatively easy to
> accomplish.
>
> Then when it's agreed that this should go on a prototype wiki, Ryan or
> I will set up the wiki and configure it, and it'll be all yours.
>
> Roan Kattouw (Catrope)
>

It seems to be sufficient to add set *$wgDisableLangConversion = true;* for
Portuguese wikis while testing at a prototype wiki (there it would have it's
default value [*=false]*). Would that be possible?

There is also an open bug related to this variable:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18958

Helder
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Using LanguageConverter for Portuguese Variants

[Roan Kattouw]

2010/8/9 Helder Geovane :
> It seems to be sufficient to add set *$wgDisableLangConversion = true;* for
> Portuguese wikis while testing at a prototype wiki (there it would have it's
> default value [*=false]*). Would that be possible?
>
> There is also an open bug related to this variable:
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18958
>
>From reading that and the commits involved, it seems
$wgDisableLangConversion doesn't completely disable language
conversion, so that may need to be fixed first.

Roan Kattouw (Catrope)

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Using LanguageConverter for Portuguese Variants

[Helder Geovane]

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:31, Roan Kattouw  wrote:

> 2010/8/9 Helder Geovane :
> > It seems to be sufficient to add set *$wgDisableLangConversion = true;*
> for
> > Portuguese wikis while testing at a prototype wiki (there it would have
> it's
> > default value [*=false]*). Would that be possible?
> >
> > There is also an open bug related to this variable:
> > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18958
> >
> From reading that and the commits involved, it seems
> $wgDisableLangConversion doesn't completely disable language
> conversion, so that may need to be fixed first.
>
> Roan Kattouw (Catrope)
>

If no one add rules to the MediaWiki:Conversiontable/pt-xyz tables and do
not add manual markup -{}- in the text, the language converter doesn't do
any conversion (at least it doesn't seems to do). But in this case we still
have the drop down menu at the top of the wiki pages (for variant selection)
and another at Special:Preferences. If we add $wgDisableLangConversion =
true; to LocalSettings.php then both menus are also disabled (they are not
shown), and so the feature seems to be completely disabled.

Does anybody know what would not be disabled with this setting?

Helder
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Gartering extension-meta data

[soxred93]

Or is wanted to get really hacky, preg_replace everything that is not  
part of the $wgExtensionCredits tag out and just send the tag to eval 
(). :)

-X!

On Aug 9, 2010, at 7:02 AM, Roan Kattouw wrote:

> 2010/8/9 Jeroen De Dauw :
>> Hey,
>>
>> I'm looking for a way to collect existing extension meta-data from  
>> the SVN
>> repo and maybe also the extension pages on MediaWiki.org. Does  
>> anyone know
>> of scripts/tools that already do this?
>>
> Depending on what metadata you need, the $wgExtensionCredits variable
> could be your friend. Note that the extension doesn't need to actually
> be installed: in most cases you can get away with just locating the
> file that contains the $wgExtensionCredits assignment and require()ing
> that file. This will probably fail in some cases, but most setup files
> only contain assignments.
>
> Roan Kattouw (Catrope)
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] phpUnderControl up and running

[Mark Clements (HappyDog)]

"Mark A. Hershberger"  wrote in message 
news:87k4o0r8no@everybody.org...
>
> I've got an instance of phpUnderControl  up
> and running at
>
> http://ci.tesla.usability.wikimedia.org/
>

   The connection has timed out
   The server at ci.tesla.usability.wikimedia.org is taking too long to 
respond.

Have tried several times over the past few hours, and no joy.

- Mark Clements (HappyDog) 



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Re: [Wikitech-l] I need an extra tab.

[Svip]

On 9 August 2010 13:35, Natasha Brown
 wrote:

> It gave me
>
> Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_ELSE, expecting T_FUNCTION in
> /home/wikitra2/public_html/w/includes/SkinTemplate.php on line 894
>
> Then somehow I have managed to delete my LocalSetting.php and I have spend all
> night restoring it: I might have learn a bit...
>
> I wish someone Can help me! My site needs an extra tab.

Can you pastebin that function?  http://paste.pocoo.org/

Regards,
le Svip

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Posting with Gmane

[Jason A. Spiro]

Cc added:  the list admin.

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 12:55 AM, MZMcBride  wrote:

> It sounds so perfect: you can post your snarky comments to the mailing list
> without having to really be subscribed. Just use this handy form!
>
> It turns out that Gmane has two rigid limits in its posting form: (1) lines
> can't be longer than 80 characters and (2) you can't have "too much" quoted
> material in your reply. These aren't warnings, mind you, they're imposed
> limits that prevent the mail from being submitted.

Yes, I also use Gmane sometimes and find these rules very annoying.

> And it now appears that it also mangles subject lines containing quotation
> marks.

Yes, I've seen that bug too, though never reported it.  You should
report it to http://news.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/ if nobody else has
ever reported it.

A bigger problem is that wikitech-l seemed to silently discard my
posts made through Gmane until I subscribed.  IIRC someone said this
is because they receive such a huge volume of spam.

But it would be much nicer if they sent me back the standard
Mailman-generated rejection message instead of just silently
discarding my message.  That way I would have some instant feedback on
why my message never made it to the list.

-- 
Jason Spiro: software/web developer, packager, trainer, IT consultant.
I support Linux, UNIX, Windows, and more. Contact me to discuss your needs.
+1 (416) 992-3445 / www.jspiro.com

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Testing Framework

[Dan Nessett]

On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 23:30:16 -0400, Mark A. Hershberger wrote:

> Dan Nessett  writes:
> 
>> I don't think walking through all the extensions looking for test
>> subdirectories and then running all tests therein is a good idea.
>> First, in a large installation with many extensions, this takes time
>> and delays the test execution.
> 
> Globbing for extensions/*/tests/TestSettings.php doesn't take long at
> all.
> 
> However I am looking at a way to test extensions independently of
> installation.
> 
> This means I can't depend on hooks or global variables, so I need
> another way to find out if an extension has tests available.
> 
>> Making the developer specify the extension or core tests to run on the
>> RunSeleniumTests command line is irritating (at least, it would
>> irritate me)
> 
> No doubt.  So why not allow per-user files to set this instead of using
> LocalSettings.php?
> 
> Mark.

Testing uninstalled extensions may make sense for unit tests, but not for 
selenium tests. The latter exercise the code through a browser, so the 
extension must be installed for selenium testing.

I'm not sure what are the advantages of "per-user" configuration files. 
For unit tests the tester directly accesses the code and so has direct 
access to LocalSettings. For selenium testing, we originally had a 
configuration file called SeleniumLocalSettings.php, but that was 
abandoned in favor of putting the configuration information in 
DefaultSettings and LocalSettings.

As stated previously, selenium tests exercise MW code by accessing the 
wiki through a browser. I don't see how a 'per-user' configuration file 
would be integrated without introducing some serious security issues.

-- 
-- Dan Nessett


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[Wikitech-l] I need an extra tab.

[bawolff]

> In reply to:
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 23:34:36 + (UTC)
> From: Natasha Brown 
> Subject: [Wikitech-l] I need an extra tab.
> To: wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> Thanks,
>
> I do not know php yet, but I have tryed it anyway, it gives me syntax mistake
> [...]

You could also try http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CommentPages

-bawolff

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Testing Framework

[Mark A. Hershberger]

Dan Nessett  writes:

> For unit tests the tester directly accesses the code and so has direct
> access to LocalSettings. For selenium testing, we originally had a
> configuration file called SeleniumLocalSettings.php, but that was
> abandoned in favor of putting the configuration information in
> DefaultSettings and LocalSettings.

I would have to go look at why that decision was made, but it seems like
it just allows the code to be polluted with Selenium-specific
identifiers that production code should not have *anything* to do with.

I would like to keep testing-specific code (and variables) separate and
distinct from production code.

> As stated previously, selenium tests exercise MW code by accessing the
> wiki through a browser.

Agreed.

Mark.

--
http://hexmode.com/

Embrace Ignorance.  Just don't get too attached.

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[Wikitech-l] Getting back to more regular site software updates

[MZMcBride]

Hi.

There was a time when the software being run on Wikimedia wikis was updated
about weekly. Nowadays, I honestly can't remember the last time it was fully
SVN upped and scapped, and the branching has made it nearly impossible for
me to figure out where the progress stands. A few "critical" revisions get
merged into the 1.16wmf4 branch as necessary, but most revisions are left
untouched, as far as I can tell.

I'd like to see if there are ways to get back to more regular site software
updates. Should the branching be undone so that trunk has to be usable? Is
it a matter of developer man-power? Is it a matter of code review? I'm not
trying to be critical, but the current situation seems far less than ideal.
I'm willing to help if I can, as I'm sure others are, but it seems like
nobody's quite sure what or where the exact problem is.

It's also possible that not everyone views the lack of software updates to
be a problem. That itself might be an issue that needs to be addressed.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikitech-l] phpUnderControl up and running

[Mark A. Hershberger]

"Mark Clements (HappyDog)"  writes:

>> http://ci.tesla.usability.wikimedia.org/

>The connection has timed out

> Have tried several times over the past few hours, and no joy.

Sorry about that.  It looks like a problem with the firewall rules.  I
think it is fixed now.


-- 
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Embrace Ignorance.  Just don't get too attached.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] phpUnderControl up and running

[Mark Clements (HappyDog)]

"Mark A. Hershberger"  wrote in message 
news:874of3r2xp@everybody.org...
> "Mark Clements (HappyDog)"  writes:
>
>>> http://ci.tesla.usability.wikimedia.org/
>
>>The connection has timed out
>
>> Have tried several times over the past few hours, and no joy.
>
> Sorry about that.  It looks like a problem with the firewall rules.  I
> think it is fixed now.
>

Yup - that's sorted it.

- Mark Clements (HappyDog) 



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Re: [Wikitech-l] Caching, was: Re: wikipedia is one of the slower sites on the web

[Platonides]

On 31/07/10, Platonides wrote:
> David Goodman wrote:
>> Which of the preference settings are likely to cause this problem?
> 
> The preferences that can -combined- make you unique[1] are:
> math preference, date format, auto-number headings, user language, image
> thumbnail size.
> 
> Interestingly, the stub threshold supposedly does not affect it [2].
> 
> Additionally, being or not in the secure server acts as another preference.

I have just commited r70783 which makes you unique only if you are using
preferences different than the default *that are actually used* on that
page.

So having a non-default math option no longer makes you unique on the
thousands of pages without  tags.

Reviews and actual numbers of parser cache increase welcome.


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[Wikitech-l] Sentence-level editing

[Jan Paul Posma]

Hello everyone,

As this is my first post to the mailing list, let me introduce myself shortly. 
My name is Jan Paul Posma, and I'm a 20 year old Computer Science student from 
the Netherlands. I was introduced to MediaWiki by Roan Kattouw, contractor for 
the Usability Initiative, who also happens to be a friend of mine. :-)

The reason for mailing to the list is the research I'll be conducting this 
year: building a new editor for MediaWiki. Now I guess this has been discussed 
over and over again, but this is a bit different. Instead of building a true 
WYSIWYG editor, I'm proposing to build an editor that's based on adding extra 
markup to the original, rendered page. This extra markup provides the ability 
to edit these segments. With this approach, it's possible to slowly enable 
editing for different elements. First, we can enable editing for "simple" 
sentences (thus the title sentence-level editing). "Simple" in this context 
means: without most wikicodes. I.e. only links are allowed, and perhaps bold 
and italic. This editor can be extended step by step to include other elements, 
such as references, images, templates, lists, tables, etc.

The last few weeks I've worked on some prototypes to illustrate this idea.
You can find the most advanced prototype here: 
http://janpaulposma.nl/sle/prototype/prototype3.html
The full project proposal and prototypes can be found here: 
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:JanPaul123/Sentence-level_editing

Right now I'm not looking for anything in specific, just whether or not you 
think this is a good idea, technically feasible, etc. If you have suggestions 
of any kind I'll be happy to hear them!

Thanks for your time!
Regards,
Jan Paul Posma

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Sentence-level editing

[Chad]

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 6:55 PM, Jan Paul Posma  wrote:
> The last few weeks I've worked on some prototypes to illustrate this idea.
> You can find the most advanced prototype here: 
> http://janpaulposma.nl/sle/prototype/prototype3.html

Can I just say that looks freakin' awesome?

-Chad

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Sentence-level editing

[soxred93]

I'm with Chad. That is simply AWESOME. It addresses yet another issue  
with usability, and it a well-done solution to it.

-X!

On Aug 9, 2010, at 7:00 PM, Chad wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 6:55 PM, Jan Paul Posma   
> wrote:
>> The last few weeks I've worked on some prototypes to illustrate  
>> this idea.
>> You can find the most advanced prototype here: http:// 
>> janpaulposma.nl/sle/prototype/prototype3.html
>
> Can I just say that looks freakin' awesome?
>
> -Chad
>
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[Wikitech-l] Interwiki link checker

[Mark Williamson]

I'm wondering if anybody still maintains the Interwiki Link Checker
http://toolserver.org/~flacus/IWLC/

I noticed recently there are heaps of pages on sh.wp whose titles and
subjects match up to articles on other Wikis but which have no links.
Is there any way we could revive this project?

-m.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Sentence-level editing

[Andrew Garrett]

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Jan Paul Posma  wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> As this is my first post to the mailing list, let me introduce myself 
> shortly. My name is Jan Paul Posma, and I'm a 20 year old Computer Science 
> student from the Netherlands. I was introduced to MediaWiki by Roan Kattouw, 
> contractor for the Usability Initiative, who also happens to be a friend of 
> mine. :-)
>
> The reason for mailing to the list is the research I'll be conducting this 
> year: building a new editor for MediaWiki. Now I guess this has been 
> discussed over and over again, but this is a bit different. Instead of 
> building a true WYSIWYG editor, I'm proposing to build an editor that's based 
> on adding extra markup to the original, rendered page. This extra markup 
> provides the ability to edit these segments. With this approach, it's 
> possible to slowly enable editing for different elements. First, we can 
> enable editing for "simple" sentences (thus the title sentence-level 
> editing). "Simple" in this context means: without most wikicodes. I.e. only 
> links are allowed, and perhaps bold and italic. This editor can be extended 
> step by step to include other elements, such as references, images, 
> templates, lists, tables, etc.
>
> The last few weeks I've worked on some prototypes to illustrate this idea.
> You can find the most advanced prototype here: 
> http://janpaulposma.nl/sle/prototype/prototype3.html
> The full project proposal and prototypes can be found here: 
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:JanPaul123/Sentence-level_editing
>
> Right now I'm not looking for anything in specific, just whether or not you 
> think this is a good idea, technically feasible, etc. If you have suggestions 
> of any kind I'll be happy to hear them!

This is a really nice design. I'll be interested to see how it handles
all the ugly edge cases that Wikitext makes possible ;-)

I do notice that the "Preview" button for sentence-level editing
doesn't quite work (it shows the old text). There's some stuff
missing, but I assume that this is because it's not finished yet.

Either way, this is a really awesome first step towards a more
friendly editing interface. Thanks for sharing.

-- 
Andrew Garrett
http://werdn.us/

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Sentence-level editing

[Thomas Dalton]

On 9 August 2010 23:55, Jan Paul Posma  wrote:
> The last few weeks I've worked on some prototypes to illustrate this idea.
> You can find the most advanced prototype here: 
> http://janpaulposma.nl/sle/prototype/prototype3.html

It seems like a great idea, but your prototype doesn't appear to work.
I can't see a way to save a modified sentence (the only options are
preview and cancel, there is no submit option) and the publish button
at the top of the page doesn't seem to do anything. Am I doing
something wrong?

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[Wikitech-l] Wikimedia logging infrastructure

[Rob Lanphier]

Hi everyone,

We're in the process of figuring out how we fix some of the issues in
our logging infrastructure.  I'm both sending this email out to get
the more knowledgeable folks to chime in about where I've got the
details wrong, and for general comment on how we're doing our logging.
 We may need to recruit contract developers to work on this stuff, so
we want to make sure we have clear and accurate information available,
and we need to figure out what exactly we want to direct those people
to do.

We have a single collection point for all of our logging, which is
actually just a sampling of the overall traffic (designed to be
roughly one out of every 1000 hits).  The process is described here:
http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Squid_logging

My understanding is that this code is also involved somewhere:
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/webstatscollector/
...but I'm a little unclear what the relationship between that code
and code in trunk/udplog.

At any rate, there are a couple of problems with the way that it works:
1.  Once we saturate the NIC on the logging machine, the quality of
our sampling degrades pretty rapidly.  We've generally had a problem
with that over the past few months.
2.  We'd like to increase the granularity of logging so that we can do
more sophiticated analysis.  For example, if we decide to run a test
banner to a limited audience, we need to make sure we're getting more
complete logs for that audience or else we're not getting enough data
to do any useful analysis.

If this were your typical commercial operation, the answer would be
"why aren't you just logging into Streambase?" (or some other data
warehousing storage solution).  I'm not suggesting that we do that (or
even look at any of the solutions that bill themselves as open source
alternatives), since, while our needs are increasing, we still aren't
planning to be anywhere near as sophisticated as a lot of data
tracking orgs.  Still, it's worth asking questions about our existing
setup.  Should we be looking optimize our existing single-box setup,
extending our software to have multi-node collection, or looking at a
whole new collection strategy?

Rob

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[Wikitech-l] a bug with wikipedia table dump

[Alexander Sibiryakov]

Hello.

I found a bug with dump of 'page' table on last update at wikipedia dump 
service (http://download.wikimedia.org).

This file shouldn't be empty
http://download.wikimedia.org/enwiki/20100730/enwiki-20100730-page.sql.gz but 
it is.

http://download.wikimedia.org/enwiki/20100730/ status is 'done' for it.

Thanks for reading.

-- 
Alexander,
Yandex, Search Quality Department,
Yekaterinburg


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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikimedia logging infrastructure

[Tim Starling]

On 10/08/10 15:16, Rob Lanphier wrote:
> We have a single collection point for all of our logging, which is
> actually just a sampling of the overall traffic (designed to be
> roughly one out of every 1000 hits).  The process is described here:
> http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Squid_logging
> 
> My understanding is that this code is also involved somewhere:
> http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/webstatscollector/
> ...but I'm a little unclear what the relationship between that code
> and code in trunk/udplog.

Maybe you should find out who wrote the relevant code and set up the
relevant infrastructure, and ask them directly. It's not difficult to
find out who it was.

> At any rate, there are a couple of problems with the way that it works:
> 1.  Once we saturate the NIC on the logging machine, the quality of
> our sampling degrades pretty rapidly.  We've generally had a problem
> with that over the past few months.

We haven't saturated any NICs.

-- Tim Starling



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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikimedia logging infrastructure

[Rob Lanphier]

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 11:17 PM, Tim Starling  wrote:
> On 10/08/10 15:16, Rob Lanphier wrote:
>> We have a single collection point for all of our logging, which is
>> actually just a sampling of the overall traffic (designed to be
>> roughly one out of every 1000 hits).  The process is described here:
>> http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Squid_logging
>>
>> My understanding is that this code is also involved somewhere:
>> http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/webstatscollector/
>> ...but I'm a little unclear what the relationship between that code
>> and code in trunk/udplog.
>
> Maybe you should find out who wrote the relevant code and set up the
> relevant infrastructure, and ask them directly. It's not difficult to
> find out who it was.

Well, yes, I was hoping you'd weigh in on this thread.

>> At any rate, there are a couple of problems with the way that it works:
>> 1.  Once we saturate the NIC on the logging machine, the quality of
>> our sampling degrades pretty rapidly.  We've generally had a problem
>> with that over the past few months.
>
> We haven't saturated any NICs.

Sorry, I assumed it was a NIC.  There has been packet loss, from what
I understand.  I'll leave it at that.

Rob

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Sentence-level editing

[Daniel Friesen]

Jan Paul Posma wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> As this is my first post to the mailing list, let me introduce myself 
> shortly. My name is Jan Paul Posma, and I'm a 20 year old Computer Science 
> student from the Netherlands. I was introduced to MediaWiki by Roan Kattouw, 
> contractor for the Usability Initiative, who also happens to be a friend of 
> mine. :-)
>
> The reason for mailing to the list is the research I'll be conducting this 
> year: building a new editor for MediaWiki. Now I guess this has been 
> discussed over and over again, but this is a bit different. Instead of 
> building a true WYSIWYG editor, I'm proposing to build an editor that's based 
> on adding extra markup to the original, rendered page. This extra markup 
> provides the ability to edit these segments. With this approach, it's 
> possible to slowly enable editing for different elements. First, we can 
> enable editing for "simple" sentences (thus the title sentence-level 
> editing). "Simple" in this context means: without most wikicodes. I.e. only 
> links are allowed, and perhaps bold and italic. This editor can be extended 
> step by step to include other elements, such as references, images, tem
>  plates, lists, tables, etc.
>
> The last few weeks I've worked on some prototypes to illustrate this idea.
> You can find the most advanced prototype here: 
> http://janpaulposma.nl/sle/prototype/prototype3.html
> The full project proposal and prototypes can be found here: 
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:JanPaul123/Sentence-level_editing
>
> Right now I'm not looking for anything in specific, just whether or not you 
> think this is a good idea, technically feasible, etc. If you have suggestions 
> of any kind I'll be happy to hear them!
>
> Thanks for your time!
> Regards,
> Jan Paul Posma
>   
Interesting.
I find the switch to 3row textarea from content a little jarring. A
further developed version could make use of contentEditable to provide
the same editing ability but without the negative side effects of the
textarea. This could either be done as a actual lightweight wysiwyg --
floating undo, bold, italic, link/unlink buttons (being sure that when
the user instinctively types [[internal link]] it turns into a link --
Wikia failed there). Or converting the simple content back to WikiText
and showing the syntax ([[, '', etc...) inline, with a floating cancel
and preview button just using contentEditable as a textarea replacement
that doesn't disrupt the page flow as much.

If you do start to get into the contentEditable stuff later, be sure to
try to contact me about it. I was working on a company project that
could really have used a good inline wysiwyg editor, but I found all the
wysiwyg editors out there lacking. They don't support contentEditable,
they don't let you detach the toolbar from the editor (or better, give
you an api and let you build the toolbar yourself), and they're such a
horrid mess of bloated code I can't for the life of me find a way to
extract the components that focus on cleaning up the mess the browsers
make of the html and abstracting the wisiwyg api. And the browsers make
a mess of things. So while I've had to make due with a workaround since
we haven't launched yet, I've been hoping to eventually finish creating
a MIT or MIT/GPL licensed ContentEditable library that'll abstract the
basic wysiwyg mess that every editor seams to be reinventing and make
rolling your own custom wysiwyg editor easier. Depending on what state
we're at whenever you do get to that, we could collaborate on that, or I
could probably spin it as a small contract or sponsorship for an
open-source project we could use which would also be useful in your
project and for other projects, if we're already launched. Or, perhaps
enough time might elapse that we already hired someone to develop the
library and left it open for people to freely use.

-- 
~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]

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