Re: [Wikitech-l] SVN backups
Mike.lifeguard wrote: Hello, svn.wikimedia.org says that [0] should have dumps of the repository, but there's nothing there. Is that intended? If so, the link should perhaps be removed. Otherwise, it appears there may be missing backups. -Mike [0] http://svn.wikimedia.org/dumps/ The link is correct. They should be there. I have a cron fetching them. The last one which was available there is mediawiki-svndump-20100703-revs68595:68934 from jul 3. So the failure would have appeared between 4 July and 10 July. There was a power outage on 5 July. That would explain the script no longer updating it, but not the missing files. Maybe they were in nfs? ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How to login a user without password?
Bear wrote:
hi,
I am working on developing some auth extensions these days. Now I have
already done halt of my project. I extended a new class from AuthPlugin and
write my code in it, it works fine. But I want to do more on this. For
example, I wanna make Mediawiki login automaticlly when I logged in other
applications.
When I logged in an other application, the application would call a file in
Mediawiki, for example, I installed my forum in forum.x.org and mediawiki
in wiki.x.org, when I logged in forum, the forum would access
http://wiki.x.org/myapi.php automatically and POST user ID to it. Now I
must make myapi.php to set a session to make mediawiki show the user has been
logged in. I have read the Mediawiki API but it cannot satisfy me, because it
need some more information which I cannot supply such like users password. So
is there anyway to make a user logged in without a clear-text password? thx!!
No need to do that:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Hooks/UserLoadFromSession
BTW: I found another problem on a class which extended from AuthPlugin.
When I 'echo' something in
function authenticate($username, $password)
it wont shown on page. Only when I added exit(); to stop program running, my
message can be shown. For example, If I use this code:
function authenticate($username, $password){
echo 'aaa';
//Do something to auth
return true;
}
Nothing would shown, it would redirected to LoginComplete page directly.
And also, if I use a hook:
$wgHooks['UserLoginComplete'][] = 'WMHook_UserLoginComplete';
and 'echo' something in function WMHook_UserLoginComplete():
function WMHook_UserLoginComplete($user, $inject_html){
$uid = $user-getId();
echo $uid;
return true;
}
Nothing would be shown. If I modified the $inject_html like:
function WMHook_UserLoginComplete($user, $inject_html){
$inject_html = 'aa';
return true;
}
Whatever value I passed to $inject_html execpt empty string would cause
Mediawiki stop working. Nothing would shown and the program was stop.
Could you tell me why this happed? thx
Because you are being redirected. Set $wgDebugRedirects = true; in
LocalSettings to see them.
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Re: [Wikitech-l] SVN backups
2010/8/12 Platonides platoni...@gmail.com: There was a power outage on 5 July. That would explain the script no longer updating it, but not the missing files. Maybe they were in nfs? That power outage was in Florida, and the SVN server is in Amsterdam, so unless the script is running on a different box or NFS is involved or whatever, I don't think the power outage could've caused this. Roan Kattouw (Catrope) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikimedia logging infrastructure
Hi! Sure. Make each thread call accept and let the kernel give incoming sockets to one of them. There you have the listener done :) Solaris used to need an explicit locking, but it is now fixed there, too. Heh, I somewhat ignored this way - yeah, it would work just fine - one can do per-file synchronization rather than per-event, as there's not much state involved on either side. Given the following incomint events: udp2log has problems jeluf created a new wiki domas fixed the server I call corrupted this: jeluf domas udp2log has fixed the server problems created a new wiki Well, you wouldn't want to use fwrite/etc calls, as their behavior in threaded environment isn't that useful :) write()s aren't atomic either, so... what you have to do is: lock(fd); write(); write(); write(); (may be needed for single buffer, in case first write is not complete) unlock(fd); I don't get it. What is slow on it? What it does is: 1) Get socket data 2) Split line into pieces 3) fwrite each line in 16 fds 4) Go to 1 1) Get socket data 2) Split packet into lines 3) Write lines into 16 fds 4) Go to 1 If there's plenty of CPU, the pipes doesn't fill, the fwrite doesn't block... Why isn't it coping with it? Too much time lost in context changes? There're no context changes, as it running fully on a core. plenty of CPU is 100% core use, most of time is spent in write(), and apparently syscalls aren't free. Domas ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikimedia logging infrastructure
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Domas Mituzas midom.li...@gmail.com wrote: There're no context changes, as it running fully on a core. plenty of CPU is 100% core use, most of time is spent in write(), and apparently syscalls aren't free. Without having looked at any code, can't the threads just add data to a semaphore linked list (fast), and a single separate thread writes the stuff to disk occasionally? Magnus ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How to login a user without password?
hi,
I am very thankful you can reply me, but your solution looks not comfort me. I
am using a Central Auth System to manage all user authcation. So when user are
authenticated by this system, they should be logged in Mediawiki automatically.
The system would access a .php file in Mediawiki such like
http://wiki.x.org/myapi.org . So I must use this file to set mediawiki
session. Could you tell me how to do? thx!
--
Bear
2010-08-12
-
From:Platonides
Send Date:2010-08-12 17:35:33
To:wikitech-l
CC:
Subject:Re: [Wikitech-l] How to login a user without password?
Bear wrote:
hi,
I am working on developing some auth extensions these days. Now I have
already done halt of my project. I extended a new class from AuthPlugin and
write my code in it, it works fine. But I want to do more on this. For
example, I wanna make Mediawiki login automaticlly when I logged in other
applications.
When I logged in an other application, the application would call a file in
Mediawiki, for example, I installed my forum in forum.x.org and mediawiki
in wiki.x.org, when I logged in forum, the forum would access
http://wiki.x.org/myapi.php automatically and POST user ID to it. Now I
must make myapi.php to set a session to make mediawiki show the user has been
logged in. I have read the Mediawiki API but it cannot satisfy me, because it
need some more information which I cannot supply such like users password. So
is there anyway to make a user logged in without a clear-text password? thx!!
No need to do that:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Hooks/UserLoadFromSession
BTW: I found another problem on a class which extended from AuthPlugin.
When I 'echo' something in
function authenticate($username, $password)
it wont shown on page. Only when I added exit(); to stop program running, my
message can be shown. For example, If I use this code:
function authenticate($username, $password){
echo 'aaa';
//Do something to auth
return true;
}
Nothing would shown, it would redirected to LoginComplete page directly.
And also, if I use a hook:
$wgHooks['UserLoginComplete'][] = 'WMHook_UserLoginComplete';
and 'echo' something in function WMHook_UserLoginComplete():
function WMHook_UserLoginComplete($user, $inject_html){
$uid = $user-getId();
echo $uid;
return true;
}
Nothing would be shown. If I modified the $inject_html like:
function WMHook_UserLoginComplete($user, $inject_html){
$inject_html = 'aa';
return true;
}
Whatever value I passed to $inject_html execpt empty string would cause
Mediawiki stop working. Nothing would shown and the program was stop.
Could you tell me why this happed? thx
Because you are being redirected. Set $wgDebugRedirects = true; in
LocalSettings to see them.
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Re: [Wikitech-l] SVN backups
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 5:44 AM, Roan Kattouw roan.katt...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/8/12 Platonides platoni...@gmail.com: There was a power outage on 5 July. That would explain the script no longer updating it, but not the missing files. Maybe they were in nfs? That power outage was in Florida, and the SVN server is in Amsterdam, so unless the script is running on a different box or NFS is involved or whatever, I don't think the power outage could've caused this. NFS was involved, the backups were actually being put on storage2. Storage2 has bad drives, so we haven't been able to get to the dumps. That, and transatlantic NFS mounts are bad, so Mark wanted me to come up with a new solution anyway. Just haven't gotten around to it yet. -Chad ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] ref tag and multiple transcluded pages
Neil Kandalgaonkar ne...@wikimedia.org wrote in message news:4c62e7e2.3040...@wikimedia.org... For obvious reasons only consecutive pages should be allowed here. Not true. Sometimes a footnote will start on one page, and the next page will have a full-page illustration, and then the footnote will continue on the subsequent pages. In books where there all the photgraphic plates are next to each other (which is very common, due to the printing/binding process) the gap could be of an arbitrary length. - Mark Clements (HappyDog) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How to login a user without password?
I am very very thankful you can supply me such rich information. I have read them carefully and found they are not comfort my situation. The Central Auth System I use is not developed by me. So I must do my project in its framework. When one user login in a application such like a forum, the forum would ask the central auth system if the username and password which supplied by user is match. When this is okay, it would call a function which provided by this central auth system. This function will access the myapi.php in each applications which configured with this central auth system and pass User_ID by POST. So I have to write a myapi.php for mediawiki to create a session with the uid it supplied. I am not good at English and I hope you can understand my meanning. thx! Ok. I understand the requirement now. Note that the last extension I linked to has code that creates a session for a user. You can use it as an example. It also has an example of creating a user in the database, which you'll need to do as well. Note that this sounds like a really insecure system if done improperly. I hope the central auth server has some way of authenticating that POST request, or anyone would be able to grant themselves a session. V/r, Ryan Lane ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] relocating search servers
Hi all, We are currently relocating some servers internally in the datacenter. As a consequence, search snippets, did you mean... and interwiki search are going to be turned off during this time, and only bare results shown. This will affect all WMF wikis. I expect, if everything goes well, that in around 4-5h things are going to go back to normal. Cheers, Robert ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] relocating search servers
It's probably worth sending this kind of email more widely than just the tech list. On 12 August 2010 22:27, Robert Stojnic rainma...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, We are currently relocating some servers internally in the datacenter. As a consequence, search snippets, did you mean... and interwiki search are going to be turned off during this time, and only bare results shown. This will affect all WMF wikis. I expect, if everything goes well, that in around 4-5h things are going to go back to normal. Cheers, Robert ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Getting back to more regular site software updates
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 3:38 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: There was a time when the software being run on Wikimedia wikis was updated about weekly. Nowadays, I honestly can't remember the last time it was fully SVN upped and scapped, and the branching has made it nearly impossible for me to figure out where the progress stands. A few critical revisions get merged into the 1.16wmf4 branch as necessary, but most revisions are left untouched, as far as I can tell. This is a real pain, I agree. If you're doing something with the intent that it be used on Wikipedia, it must be pretty demoralizing to not see your changes ever go live. This also greatly increases the headache when we finally do deploy the many months of changes to the live site. And the current practice of deploying some arbitrarily-chosen subset of revisions out of order is prone to cause bugs -- wasn't that what caused us to lose all those images a while back? I'd like to see if there are ways to get back to more regular site software updates. Should the branching be undone so that trunk has to be usable? Is it a matter of developer man-power? Is it a matter of code review? I'm not trying to be critical, but the current situation seems far less than ideal. I'm willing to help if I can, as I'm sure others are, but it seems like nobody's quite sure what or where the exact problem is. I'm pretty sure it's a problem of code review. Deployment was already getting erratic in Brion's final months here, as he and Tim couldn't keep up with the pace of new commits, and it pretty much ground to a halt when Brion left. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the problem is we have many more developers than we did two or three years ago, but no more reviewers. Surely a few paid people can be assigned to make sure everything is reviewed, in place of some of their current coding duties. If we had three or four people doing review, the workload on each wouldn't be terribly great. They might not be as experienced as Brion or Tim, but the worst that happens is buggy software gets deployed once in a while. Which will happen anyway, and we can fix it when it does. I think we long ago passed the point where it's worth the risk. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] I can not run update.php. Why?
I can not run update.php, I did it php5 update.php as well. It gives me :
parse error, unexpected T_ARRAY, expecting '' or T_VARIABLE in
.../w/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_GlobalFunctions.php on line
221
MediaWiki 1.16.0, PHP 5.2.9 (cgi), MySQL 5.0.91mm-log, Semantic MediaWiki
(Version 1.5.1.1)
/**
* Formats an array of message strings so that it appears as a tooltip.
* $icon should be one of: 'warning' (default), 'info'.
*
* @param array $messages
* @param string $icon Acts like an enum. Callers must ensure safety, since
this value is used directly in the output.
* @param string $seperator
*
* @return string
*/
Line221: function smwfEncodeMessages( array $messages, $icon = 'warning',
$seperator = ' !--br--' ) {
if ( count( $messages ) 0 ) {
SMWOutputs::requireHeadItem( SMW_HEADER_TOOLTIP );
foreach( $messages as $message ) $message = htmlspecialchars(
$message );
$messageString = implode( $seperator, $messages );
return 'span class=smwttpersistspan class=smwtticon' . $icon
. '.png/spanspan class=smwttcontent' . $messageString . '/span
/span';
} else {
return '';
}
}
What is wrong?
--
Natasha Brown skype: russian_natasha
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Re: [Wikitech-l] proposal to extend the ref tag syntax
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 6:05 PM, thoma...@gmx.de wrote: I guess you also mean see multiple scans at once. This would be another workaround, but it would not deter contributors from trying to leave the text where it was in the first place, and where we think it belongs. Why do you think it belongs split across separate pages, instead of in one place, when it's logically one unit? And why do you think there'd by any big added risk that people won't obey Wikisource conventions in transcription? To the contrary: if you add a new magic ref attribute, *nobody* will be able to figure out the right way to do it unless they're told, because this will be the only place in any wiki anywhere where that attribute is actually used. If you do a multi-page approach, then at least proofreaders don't have to remember anything extra on a technical level. We have been dealing with this problem for several years now, and all the solutions that we have found have drawbacks. I do not think that we can solve this without extending the tool that manages references. You've made a reasonable case that *some* software change is needed. However, I think you've got the wrong one. Trying to add this weird special-case feature to Cite, which is totally useless unless you're using ProofreadPage in the particular way Wikisource is using it, loses major points for inelegance, complexity, and mixing extensions together. If the use-case can be adequately addressed by just having ProofreadPage display multiple scans and edit boxes on one page, that would be a much simpler and more intuitive solution. Not only that, but you could also stop using magic templates to split words across pages and things like that, so it would be considerably easier to use. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] I can not run update.php. Why?
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Natasha Brown learnrussianspeakruss...@gmail.com wrote: I can not run update.php, I did it php5 update.php as well. It gives me : parse error, unexpected T_ARRAY, expecting '' or T_VARIABLE in .../w/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_GlobalFunctions.php on line 221 MediaWiki 1.16.0, PHP 5.2.9 (cgi), MySQL 5.0.91mm-log, Semantic MediaWiki (Version 1.5.1.1) What does php -v output? For me it's PHP 5.3.2-1ubuntu4.2 with Suhosin-Patch (cli) (built: May 13 2010 20:01:00) Copyright (c) 1997-2009 The PHP Group Zend Engine v2.3.0, Copyright (c) 1998-2010 Zend Technologies If it says PHP 4.anything, php is the wrong command to use. Ask your host what the correct command is to access PHP5 from the command line. It might be php5, or something else. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Getting back to more regular site software updates
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 37-01--10 03:59 PM, Aryeh Gregor wrote: Surely a few paid people can be assigned to make sure everything is reviewed, in place of some of their current coding duties. Don't we already have staff for this? Hasn't and finally get code review and deployment up to pace been part of several hiring announcements over the past year or more? I appreciate that getting people to the place where they can do good code review takes time, but if that's what the problem is, then emails like this should immediately be met with exactly that explanation. Or perhaps I hallucinated that the Foundation hired staff for this sort of thing. - -Mike -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkxkiIoACgkQst0AR/DaKHvETACgvRrBgjXtlBC2iFcINm1QQecP M6MAnRZEk2iq7PaMHnYV3KyWmF/4u6CS =0EVt -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Getting back to more regular site software updates
Hi Mike, I think you may be hallucinating. We are just now hiring our second code-reviewer, who is also thinking about ways to make the code review process more transparent. Danese On 8/12/10 4:49 PM, Mike.lifeguard wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 37-01--10 03:59 PM, Aryeh Gregor wrote: Surely a few paid people can be assigned to make sure everything is reviewed, in place of some of their current coding duties. Don't we already have staff for this? Hasn't and finally get code review and deployment up to pace been part of several hiring announcements over the past year or more? I appreciate that getting people to the place where they can do good code review takes time, but if that's what the problem is, then emails like this should immediately be met with exactly that explanation. Or perhaps I hallucinated that the Foundation hired staff for this sort of thing. - -Mike -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkxkiIoACgkQst0AR/DaKHvETACgvRrBgjXtlBC2iFcINm1QQecP M6MAnRZEk2iq7PaMHnYV3KyWmF/4u6CS =0EVt -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] I can not run update.php. Why?
On 13/08/10 08:06, Natasha Brown wrote:
I can not run update.php, I did it php5 update.php as well. It gives me :
parse error, unexpected T_ARRAY, expecting '' or T_VARIABLE in
.../w/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_GlobalFunctions.php on line
221
Line221: function smwfEncodeMessages( array $messages, $icon = 'warning',
$seperator = ' !--br--' ) {
Array type hinting is supported in PHP 5.1+. You say you have 5.2.9
but you probably don't, you probably have 5.0. The version you see on
the command line doesn't have to be the same as the one it uses for
the web.
-- Tim Starling
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Developing true WISIWYG editor for media wiki
Hi, glad to present our first demo on editing media wiki articles: http://www.screencast.com/t/NmMzMjVkNjUt Regards, Pavel 2010/8/3 Павел Петроченко pa...@onpositive.com Hi, Yes, of course we are interested on it. Specifically, the ideal WISIWYG MediaWiki editor would allow easy WISIWYG editing to newbies, while still allowing to use the full wikisyntax to power users, without inserting crappy markup when using it, or reordering everything to its liking when WISIWYG was used to do a little change. Thanks for the note, it may be an important issue. From the screencast, it seems your technology is based in a local application instead of web. That's is a little inconvenience for the users, but an acceptable one IMHO. You could plug your app as an external editor, see: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:External_editors Yep according to my understanding this is major problem, but unfortunately we are rich client developers, so going web is only in our future plans. (Actually we are thinking about moving to it, but waiting for a first customer to help with transition) On other side being a rich client app may add some benefits for advanced users, which are still hard to do in web apps (according to my poor desktop developer understanding). custom groupings, personal inbox, local for work flow/validation rules and review. (just as initial examples) The problem that makes this really hard is that MediaWiki syntax is not nice. So I'm a bit skeptical about that fast quality editor. You can find in the list archives many discussions about it, and also in wikitext-l. Things like providing a ribbon is a completely esthetical choice, it can't really help on the result of its editing. Maybe your backend is powerful enough to handle this without problems. Please, show me wrong :) Yep - already meet some crap in dealing with it(much more complex than, Trac wiki one). But still hope to over helm most of problems, in a couple of month I don't have an issue with there being a closed source Windows app that edits wikitext well, but then there is going to be a bit of a difficult transition from reading to editing and back again. Yes, this is one of pote And just FYI, generally our community is more interested in free and cross-platform software than proprietary, single platform software. Actually we are going to be open source and cross platform (we are Eclipse RCP based) That was very interesting. Any chance the rest of us can try it for ourselves? Our media wiki support is at very early stage now. Actually we are still not sure how much we are going to be committed into it, If there will be enough interest (at least couple of volunteer beta testers), we will start publishing builds somewhere. Regards, Pavel OnPositive Technologies. 2010/8/3 Neil Kandalgaonkar ne...@wikimedia.org On 8/2/10 9:29 AM, Павел Петроченко wrote: Hi guys, At the moment we are discussing an opportunity to create full scale true WYSIWYG client for media wiki. To the moment we have a technology which should allow us to implement with a good quality and quite fast. Unfortunately we are not sure if there is a real need/interest for having such kind of client at the media wiki world, as well as what are actual needs of media wiki users. Definitely interested. As for what the needs of MediaWiki users are, you can check out everything on http://usability.wikimedia.org/ . We are just beginning to address usability concerns. This study might be interesting to you: http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Usability_and_Experience_Study P.S. Screen cast demonstrating our experimental client for Trac wiki http://www.screencast.com/t/MDkzYzM4 That was very interesting. Any chance the rest of us can try it for ourselves? I personally like the idea of a ribbon. I think we can assume that most wiki editors are always going to be novice editors, so taking up tremendous amounts of space by default to explain things is warranted. Experts should be able to drop into raw wikitext, or otherwise minimize the interface. I don't have an issue with there being a closed source Windows app that edits wikitext well, but then there is going to be a bit of a difficult transition from reading to editing and back again. And just FYI, generally our community is more interested in free and cross-platform software than proprietary, single platform software. Still it looks interesting. Please let us know more. -- Neil Kandalgaonkar (| ne...@wikimedia.org ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikimedia logging infrastructure
Without having looked at any code, can't the threads just add data to a semaphore linked list (fast), and a single separate thread writes the stuff to disk occasionally? Isn't that the usual error that threaded software developers do: 1. get all threads depend on single mutex 2. watch them fight! (you'd get a million wakeups here a second :-) as a bonus point you get a need to copy data to a separate buffer or frenzy memory allocating with another mutex for malloc/free ;-) Domas ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
