[Wikitech-l] supporting small languages (was WMF 2015 strategic plan and multilingualism)
(changing the thread title) On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: I have proposed to spend 100,000,- Euro and this will make major improvements for the scripts, the fonts and the standards for the languages we have a Wikipedia for. This is given the current budget chicken feed. Thanks, GerardM This is not a comment on the amount of money but on the idea of improvements to scripts/fonts/standards etc. I understand there's been discussion about creating a list of problems for representing various languages on the internet. For example, some languages have problems being written online because they are not well supported in Unicode, or some don't have free fonts, etc. etc. These are problems for *any* website that wants to support that particular language. There are also bugs related to how *we* support particular languages in MediaWiki -- as far as I know these have mainly been collected in Bugzilla. So my questions are: 1) have there ever been any comprehensive lists made of these language-related bugs (either within MediaWiki or in general); and, 2) what needs to be done (technically) to support small(er) languages? (I know we, in particular GerardM, have been discussing this for a long time. But I'm curious what the current state of affairs is, and if issues for small languages are collected together in one place). best, Phoebe ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] supporting small languages (was WMF 2015 strategic plan and multilingualism)
On 8 March 2011 10:11, phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com wrote: (changing the thread title) On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: I have proposed to spend 100,000,- Euro and this will make major improvements for the scripts, the fonts and the standards for the languages we have a Wikipedia for. This is given the current budget chicken feed. Thanks, GerardM This is not a comment on the amount of money but on the idea of improvements to scripts/fonts/standards etc. I understand there's been discussion about creating a list of problems for representing various languages on the internet. For example, some languages have problems being written online because they are not well supported in Unicode, or some don't have free fonts, etc. etc. These are problems for *any* website that wants to support that particular language. There are also bugs related to how *we* support particular languages in MediaWiki -- as far as I know these have mainly been collected in Bugzilla. So my questions are: 1) have there ever been any comprehensive lists made of these language-related bugs (either within MediaWiki or in general); and, 2) what needs to be done (technically) to support small(er) languages? I haven't seen such list for MediaWiki which covers all issues, but a structured list would be great. I could even like doing one when I have time. (I know we, in particular GerardM, have been discussing this for a long time. But I'm curious what the current state of affairs is, and if issues for small languages are collected together in one place). There are also issues that affect big languages. -Niklas -- Niklas Laxström ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] [Announce] Brion Vibber to rejoin Wikimedia Foundation
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 2:16 AM, Danese Cooper dan...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Yes, the rumors are true! Today I am pleased to announce that after more than a year away, Brion Vibber will be returning as a full-time employee of Wikimedia Foundation on March 31, 2011. Yay! --vvv ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Tag Extensions + nested section wikitext = missing section (ideas?)
Hello, I've been trying to arrange a more structured presentation for documenting binary file/data structure bit by bit. What I have in mind is to make sections appear like html fieldsets, eg. fieldsetlegend[newline]==section A==[newline]/legend[nested wikitext here, possibly more fieldsets]/fieldset ... so what you get is a clean encapsulation model for structure. I tried a lot of stuff. And eventually have reached the point where tonight I implemented the fieldset/legend tags as http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual_talk:Tag_extensions. This gave me more control / made possible the repair of the malformed p tags introduced by MediaWiki ( http://en.swordofmoonlight.org/wiki/MDL_(file_format) ) The only problem is the sections, though the edit button stuff is clearly present, have disappeared. Presumably because the parser now ignores anything in the custom tags at whatever point those are generated. The mediawiki page mentions that for whatever reason baked in (stuff pre-generated I guess when the page is edited) is skipped because it's inside a custom tag. If so, I don't see the logic in that one bit, other than it being an oversight or the tag extension concept is not embraced by developers. Otherwise I'm at a loss. And anyway, would like any suggestions in terms of restoring this functionality at this point by hook or crook. PS: For developers reading. The Sanitizer.php file whitelists just about every block level html element you can imagine, but fieldset and legend are not in there. I believe these elements are slightly thought of as related to forms, but they are also really great for encapsulated information which does not qualify as a table proper. I originally whitelisted fieldset/legend however p tags generated by mediawiki would just not play nice. I assume the p tags don't get in the way of div/table tags for example. I could not find any means of further entrenching the tags in the system and could not find support one via the mediawiki help desk. Ultimately however, I would like to suggest that some wikitext syntax be staked out for generating fieldset/legend fields. They could be simple extension of the table wikitext. And would facilitate a wider range of flexibility. And might even prove useful over at wikipedia and other major wiki sites. However you never know what ways people will come up with for using wikii, and there are all kinds of different documentation domains with different requirements. Finally thanks for your time/reading, UPDATE since joining the mailing list proper. I may try going back to the Sanitizer.php approach if there is a way to prevent the parser from generating illegal html. I found some of my problems tonight were more caused by Firefox being buggy around fieldset/legend. Perhaps it's too soon for these tags. Even though MediaWiki deploys them on some pages like Recent Changes. -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Tag-Extensions-%2B-nested-section-wikitext-%3D-missing-section-%28ideas-%29-tp31096130p31096130.html Sent from the Wikipedia Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia Announcements] [Announce] Brion Vibber to rejoin Wikimedia Foundation
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 2:29 AM, Lewis Cawte lewisca...@googlemail.com wrote: YAY Is it me, or was teh staff page out of date? I thought he was still CTO :/ I'm pretty sure it's just you, and I hope it's just you. :-) Can you paste the URL of the page you're referring to? -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Tag Extensions + nested section wikitext = missing section (ideas?)
Btw, you might want to try a transparent tag hook. ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name] On 11-03-08 04:21 AM, Mick P. wrote: Hello, I've been trying to arrange a more structured presentation for documenting binary file/data structure bit by bit. What I have in mind is to make sections appear like html fieldsets, eg. fieldsetlegend[newline]==section A==[newline]/legend[nested wikitext here, possibly more fieldsets]/fieldset ... so what you get is a clean encapsulation model for structure. I tried a lot of stuff. And eventually have reached the point where tonight I implemented the fieldset/legend tags as http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual_talk:Tag_extensions. This gave me more control / made possible the repair of the malformedp tags introduced by MediaWiki ( http://en.swordofmoonlight.org/wiki/MDL_(file_format) ) ... ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia Announcements] [Announce] Brion Vibber to rejoin Wikimedia Foundation
Lewis Cawte wrote: YAY Is it me, or was teh staff page out of date? I thought he was still CTO :/ He was removed from there in October 2009: http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Staffdiff=40480oldid=40399 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia Announcements] [Announce] Brion Vibber to rejoin Wikimedia Foundation
Platonides wrote: Lewis Cawte wrote: YAY Is it me, or was teh staff page out of date? I thought he was still CTO :/ He was removed from there in October 2009: http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Staffdiff=40480oldid=40399 Pages like http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chief_Technical_Officer are a bit outdated, though. MZMcBride ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia Announcements] [Announce] Brion Vibber to rejoin Wikimedia Foundation
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Roan Kattouw roan.katt...@gmail.com wrote: My apologies for cross-posting, but it's my opinion the awesomeness of this news makes up for it :) Thanks all! I stuck a couple notes on my blog (also some stuff about upcoming goodness in StatusNet 1.0 in that post!) - http://leuksman.com/log/2011/03/07/hotel-mediawiki-you-can-check-out-but-you-can-never-leave/ My overarching goal for MediaWiki (and elsewhere in Wikimedia-land) is making sure that the software stays out of peoples' way when they're trying to get stuff done. There's a lot of low-hanging fruit in the UI, but making the whole markup-editing pipeline smooth is going to be an interesting process, especially when we really start diving into the terrors of document structure and reconceiving templates and the parser internals for a human-friendly world -- and migrating to it over time... muwahahahahaha :D -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia Announcements] [Announce] Brion Vibber to rejoin Wikimedia Foundation
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:01 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Platonides wrote: Lewis Cawte wrote: YAY Is it me, or was teh staff page out of date? I thought he was still CTO :/ He was removed from there in October 2009: http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Staffdiff=40480oldid=40399 Pages like http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chief_Technical_Officer are a bit outdated, though. I've taken the liberty of updating that page, though it should probably either be expanded or consolidated (if there's a better list of WMF governance pages to point at) -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Site fixes this week
Reposting from techblog: http://techblog.wikimedia.org/2011/03/site-fixes/ - Site fixes this week We’re still in the middle of cleaning up some lingering issues from the 1.17 deployment, and despite our best efforts, you may see a little bit of quirkiness in the site: * One problem with the site since the deployment was a problem with our job queue, which meant that emails that were supposed to be sent from the site weren’t. This backlog was removed last night, and a lot of pent-up email was sent. * There were some HTML cache invalidations that caused parts of the site to get overloaded for a few minutes. * Yesterday, we started the deployment of the category sorting improvements. We deployed some modifications to the database today. This resulted in a few hiccups on the site that we’ve since mostly recovered from. Category collation One key set of improvements in the MediaWiki 1.17 release is the [1]category sorting work spearheaded by Aryeh Gregor. This code will eventually improve the sorting of categories in different languages, allowing us to choose the most appropriate sort order for the language. For now, we’re at least switching over to a more sensible sorting algorithm ([2]Unicode Collation Algorithm (UCA)), and have made other improvements to sorting. This set of changes required a modification of the database that we didn’t believe was risky, but was irreversible. Given [3]how complicated the initial 1.17 deployment was, we decided to hold back on deploying this work. There are still some maintenance scripts left to run before this work is fully-deployed, but most parts of this are done. Other fixes We’re also aware of and working on [4]other problems with the job queue. We’re investigating these problems and hope to have these fixed soon. 1. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.17/Category_sorting 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_collation_algorithm 3. http://techblog.wikimedia.org/2011/02/main-deployment-of-mediawiki-1-17-to-wikimedia-sites-complete/ 4. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27727 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] openZim export now part of collections extension
Greetings All, Today we enabled openZim (http://openzim.org/Main_Page) export to the existing PediaPress collections extension on English Wikipedia and numerous others. In addition to PDF and ODF, you will now see a new export option when browsing the Download section of the Manage Book interface. You can then easily take these files and use them with the Kiwix offline reader (http://kiwix.org/index.php/Main_Page). We'd love to get some help testing to find bugs and receive feedback. Give the tool a go and let us know what you think! Bugs can be filed at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/ under Product:MediaWiki extensions Component: Collection You can also note your thoughts on http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Collections/openZim and we'll move them over to Bugzilla. For those following our offline developments this is the first part of our push into new tools mentioned at http://techblog.wikimedia.org/2011/01/update-on-offline-wikimedia-projects/ Come help us make the others a success. Thanks to both Heiko and Volker for their work in making this project successful. --tomasz ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] openZim export now part of collections extension
Hoi, Would the export to ODF work for languages that are not in the Latin script?? Thanks, GerardM On 9 March 2011 06:50, Tomasz Finc tf...@wikimedia.org wrote: Greetings All, Today we enabled openZim (http://openzim.org/Main_Page) export to the existing PediaPress collections extension on English Wikipedia and numerous others. In addition to PDF and ODF, you will now see a new export option when browsing the Download section of the Manage Book interface. You can then easily take these files and use them with the Kiwix offline reader ( http://kiwix.org/index.php/Main_Page). We'd love to get some help testing to find bugs and receive feedback. Give the tool a go and let us know what you think! Bugs can be filed at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/ under Product:MediaWiki extensions Component: Collection You can also note your thoughts on http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Collections/openZim and we'll move them over to Bugzilla. For those following our offline developments this is the first part of our push into new tools mentioned at http://techblog.wikimedia.org/2011/01/update-on-offline-wikimedia-projects/ Come help us make the others a success. Thanks to both Heiko and Volker for their work in making this project successful. --tomasz ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
