Re: [Wikitech-l] [Engineering] Translations on hold until further notice

[Leon Ziemba]

To be clear, only MediaWiki core and extensions are put on hold -- not any
other users of translatewiki, including WMF-built applications?

~Leon

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 7:21 PM John Bennett  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> This update is to add some additional information we are now able to share
> in regard to why translation updates are on hold.
>
> The Security team and others at the Wikimedia Foundation are engaged in a
> security event involving our translation services.  No Wikimedia users or
> their data are currently affected. We made the decision to temporarily
> disable translation updates until suitable countermeasures can be applied
> and at this point reinstatement of translation updates is to be determined.
> At the resolution of this event the Security team will publish a summary
> blog post (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/phame/blog/view/13/)
> including additional details as appropriate.
>
> Thank you for your patience and understanding while we work to better
> protect the community.
>
> John Bennett
>
> Director of Security, Wikimedia Foundation
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Translations on hold until further notice

[John Bennett]

Hello,

This update is to add some additional information we are now able to share
in regard to why translation updates are on hold.

The Security team and others at the Wikimedia Foundation are engaged in a
security event involving our translation services.  No Wikimedia users or
their data are currently affected. We made the decision to temporarily
disable translation updates until suitable countermeasures can be applied
and at this point reinstatement of translation updates is to be determined.
At the resolution of this event the Security team will publish a summary
blog post (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/phame/blog/view/13/) including
additional details as appropriate.

Thank you for your patience and understanding while we work to better
protect the community.

John Bennett

Director of Security, Wikimedia Foundation
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[Wikitech-l] TechCom Radar 2018-09-26

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

Here are the minutes from this week's TechCom meeting:

* RFC Approved: Harmonise the identification of requests across our
stack 

* Hosted IRC Meeting on: RFC: Modern Event Platform: Scalable Event
Intake Service  This RFC
outlines the current state of our event intake systems and some possible
ways forward. It was agreed in the meeting that research will be done
into refactoring EventBus before looking at other options and if GET
event intake needs to still be supported.
    * Minutes:


    * Log:



* Hosting IRC discussion on 3 October 2pm PST(21:00 UTC, 23:00 CET) in
#wikimedia-office: Spec for representing multiple content objects per
revision (MCR) in XML dumps 

* Looking for feedback on the latest draft of Architecture Principles
prior to TechConf, we will be incorporating this feedback prior to the
session on the Architecture Principles at TechConf.
    * Principles:

    * Talk page for comments:

    * Phabricator ticket: 

You can also find our meeting minutes at


See also the TechCom RFC board
.

If you prefer you can subscribe to our newsletter here:


Thanks,

Kate
-- 
Kate Chapman TechCom Facilitator (Contractor)




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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 11:51 AM Brad Jorsch (Anomie) 
wrote:

>
> "Added since 2018-09-27" would only be marginally better. Old overrides
> wouldn't be lost, but you'd still wipe out new overrides that are intended
> to actually be overrides rather than workarounds for this issue.
>
>
Would that be worse than turning away missing/incorrect translations for
?

Depends on how long  is, I guess.  I don't think we ever got
an estimate of that?
 --scott
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice

[Brad Jorsch (Anomie)]

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 11:39 AM C. Scott Ananian 
wrote:

> Wouldn't "delete all local overrides" (or "all local overrides added since
> 2018-09-27") be a reasonable step to include in migration after the "new
> translatewiki" is turned back on?
>

"Delete all local overrides" would be horrible, you'd lose all local wiki
customizations. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAllMessages==modified=en=5000
for enwiki's customizations for example (although English might not be
included in the purge), or
https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spezial:MediaWiki-Systemnachrichten==modified=de=5000
for dewiki's.

"Added since 2018-09-27" would only be marginally better. Old overrides
wouldn't be lost, but you'd still wipe out new overrides that are intended
to actually be overrides rather than workarounds for this issue.

-- 
Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
Senior Software Engineer
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice

[Krinkle]

Yes, we can run my deleteEqualMessages.php again, for all wikis.

It does require byte equivalence. And in my experience that means it almost
never does what you want. People will copy it slightly differently due to
spacing or with less generic syntax (eg Wikipedia: vs Project), or someone
will edit it since then on TWN.

-- Timo

On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 at 16:39, C. Scott Ananian 
wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:44 AM Brad Jorsch (Anomie) <
> bjor...@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:37 AM C. Scott Ananian  >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Couldn't you also make sure to edit things in both places?  That is,
> make
> > > the edit on translatewiki, then manually copy it over to your local
> wiki,
> > > and expect that it will be overwritten when updates from translatewiki
> > are
> > > turned back on?
> > >
> >
> > The "expect that it will be overwritten" part isn't how it works. The
> local
> > copy will remain in effect until someone deletes it.
> >
>
> Wouldn't "delete all local overrides" (or "all local overrides added since
> 2018-09-27") be a reasonable step to include in migration after the "new
> translatewiki" is turned back on?
>  --scott
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:44 AM Brad Jorsch (Anomie) 
wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:37 AM C. Scott Ananian 
> wrote:
>
> > Couldn't you also make sure to edit things in both places?  That is, make
> > the edit on translatewiki, then manually copy it over to your local wiki,
> > and expect that it will be overwritten when updates from translatewiki
> are
> > turned back on?
> >
>
> The "expect that it will be overwritten" part isn't how it works. The local
> copy will remain in effect until someone deletes it.
>

Wouldn't "delete all local overrides" (or "all local overrides added since
2018-09-27") be a reasonable step to include in migration after the "new
translatewiki" is turned back on?
 --scott
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[Wikitech-l] Upcoming Search Platform Office Hours—October 3rd

[Trey Jones]

The Search Platform Team
 will be holding
office hours the first Wednesday of each month, starting next week. Come
ask us anything about Wikimedia search!


We’re particularly interested in:

* Opportunities for collaboration—internally or externally to the Wikimedia
Foundation

* Challenges you have with on-wiki search, in any of the languages we
support


But we're happy to talk about anything search-related.


Details for our next meeting:

Date: Wednesday, October 3rd, 2018

Time: 15:00 GMT / 08:00 PDT / 11:00 EDT / 17:00 CEST

Google Meet link: https://meet.google.com/vyc-jvgq-dww


*N.B.:* Google Meet System Requirements


See you there!
—Trey

Trey Jones
Sr. Software Engineer, Search Platform
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice

[יגאל חיטרון]

Thank you. So, you are talking about avoiding any possibility to fix errors
in existing messages, nevermind where. I am not sure the communities will
be happy...
Igal


2018-09-27 16:44 GMT+03:00 Brad Jorsch (Anomie) :

> On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:37 AM C. Scott Ananian 
> wrote:
>
> > Couldn't you also make sure to edit things in both places?  That is, make
> > the edit on translatewiki, then manually copy it over to your local wiki,
> > and expect that it will be overwritten when updates from translatewiki
> are
> > turned back on?
> >
>
> The "expect that it will be overwritten" part isn't how it works. The local
> copy will remain in effect until someone deletes it.
>
> --
> Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
> Senior Software Engineer
> Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice

[Brad Jorsch (Anomie)]

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:37 AM C. Scott Ananian 
wrote:

> Couldn't you also make sure to edit things in both places?  That is, make
> the edit on translatewiki, then manually copy it over to your local wiki,
> and expect that it will be overwritten when updates from translatewiki are
> turned back on?
>

The "expect that it will be overwritten" part isn't how it works. The local
copy will remain in effect until someone deletes it.

-- 
Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
Senior Software Engineer
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:06 AM bawolff  wrote:

> Updates from translatewiki will be put on pause. You can continue to update
> translations at translatewiki, but they won't show up on Wikimedia wikis
> until the current issues are sorted out.
>
> In order to avoid things getting out of sync with translatewiki, we would
> like to ask that you avoid translating things locally unless you really
> need to until updates from translate wiki are turned back on.
>

Couldn't you also make sure to edit things in both places?  That is, make
the edit on translatewiki, then manually copy it over to your local wiki,
and expect that it will be overwritten when updates from translatewiki are
turned back on?
 --scott
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice

[bawolff]

Updates from translatewiki will be put on pause. You can continue to update
translations at translatewiki, but they won't show up on Wikimedia wikis
until the current issues are sorted out.

In order to avoid things getting out of sync with translatewiki, we would
like to ask that you avoid translating things locally unless you really
need to until updates from translate wiki are turned back on.

--
Brian

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 12:49 PM, יגאל חיטרון 
wrote:

> N3 Trizek just said that translatewiki will work for existing messages. I
> read here they will not. What is the right answer? Thank you.
> Igal
>
>
> 2018-09-27 15:47 GMT+03:00 יגאל חיטרון :
>
> > Sure, but *existing* messages are fixed all the time, if you want it or
> > not. And you should choose - fix them locally, and then make it global
> > after the translatewiki will return, or fix the in translatewiki, and it
> > will not work at all.
> > Igal
> >
> >
> > 2018-09-27 14:47 GMT+03:00 :
> >
> >> ‪On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 1:43 PM ‫יגאל חיטרון‬‎ 
> >> wrote:‬
> >>
> >> > Hi. If so, I think that the next issue of the Tech news should
> >> recommend to
> >> > fix the existing translations locally, instead of translatewiki.com.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Ermm, isn’t this _exactly_ what we want to avoid (and why the original
> >> message was sent in the first place)? Local translations will not be
> >> updated if neccessary, being stuck basically forever once set (and will
> >> not
> >> be propagated to other wikis, but that is the lesser problem; once
> >> TranslateWiki starts working again, that will be fixed, the local
> >> translations won’t).
> >>
> >> -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
> >> ___
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> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >>
> >
> >
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice

[יגאל חיטרון]

N3 Trizek just said that translatewiki will work for existing messages. I
read here they will not. What is the right answer? Thank you.
Igal


2018-09-27 15:47 GMT+03:00 יגאל חיטרון :

> Sure, but *existing* messages are fixed all the time, if you want it or
> not. And you should choose - fix them locally, and then make it global
> after the translatewiki will return, or fix the in translatewiki, and it
> will not work at all.
> Igal
>
>
> 2018-09-27 14:47 GMT+03:00 :
>
>> ‪On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 1:43 PM ‫יגאל חיטרון‬‎ 
>> wrote:‬
>>
>> > Hi. If so, I think that the next issue of the Tech news should
>> recommend to
>> > fix the existing translations locally, instead of translatewiki.com.
>> >
>>
>> Ermm, isn’t this _exactly_ what we want to avoid (and why the original
>> message was sent in the first place)? Local translations will not be
>> updated if neccessary, being stuck basically forever once set (and will
>> not
>> be propagated to other wikis, but that is the lesser problem; once
>> TranslateWiki starts working again, that will be fixed, the local
>> translations won’t).
>>
>> -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice

[יגאל חיטרון]

Sure, but *existing* messages are fixed all the time, if you want it or
not. And you should choose - fix them locally, and then make it global
after the translatewiki will return, or fix the in translatewiki, and it
will not work at all.
Igal


2018-09-27 14:47 GMT+03:00 :

> ‪On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 1:43 PM ‫יגאל חיטרון‬‎ 
> wrote:‬
>
> > Hi. If so, I think that the next issue of the Tech news should recommend
> to
> > fix the existing translations locally, instead of translatewiki.com.
> >
>
> Ermm, isn’t this _exactly_ what we want to avoid (and why the original
> message was sent in the first place)? Local translations will not be
> updated if neccessary, being stuck basically forever once set (and will not
> be propagated to other wikis, but that is the lesser problem; once
> TranslateWiki starts working again, that will be fixed, the local
> translations won’t).
>
> -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
> ___
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice

[petr . kadlec]

‪On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 1:43 PM ‫יגאל חיטרון‬‎  wrote:‬

> Hi. If so, I think that the next issue of the Tech news should recommend to
> fix the existing translations locally, instead of translatewiki.com.
>

Ermm, isn’t this _exactly_ what we want to avoid (and why the original
message was sent in the first place)? Local translations will not be
updated if neccessary, being stuck basically forever once set (and will not
be propagated to other wikis, but that is the lesser problem; once
TranslateWiki starts working again, that will be fixed, the local
translations won’t).

-- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice

[יגאל חיטרון]

Hi. If so, I think that the next issue of the Tech news should recommend to
fix the existing translations locally, instead of translatewiki.com.
Igal (User:IKhitron)


On Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 14:31 Bartosz Dziewoński  wrote:

> As I understand, nothing terrible will happen if you add new messages to
> en.json. But new translations will not be added, so any new interfaces
> will be in English for everyone, which is a poor experience.
>
> --
> Bartosz Dziewoński
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice

[Bartosz Dziewoński]

As I understand, nothing terrible will happen if you add new messages to 
en.json. But new translations will not be added, so any new interfaces 
will be in English for everyone, which is a poor experience.


--
Bartosz Dziewoński

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Translations on hold until further notice

[Thiemo Kreuz]

Hey,

I'm sorry to hear about such an issue. I can only assume it means
massive trouble for your team, Greg.

Unfortunately for me being one of the receivers of this message I must
say it does not make the slightest sense.

What happened? Is there a Phabricator ticket I can read up?

What is the issue with making further changes to any en.json file?
What trouble can a new entry in one of these files cause that you ask
everybody to stop editing them, instead of – let's say – stop the bot
that creates the corresponding entries on translatewiki.net? The
request effectively means everybody needs to stop working on UI
features. How do you plan to make sure such changes to the multiple
hundred en.json files we maintain are indeed not done any more? What
will happen if a patch gets merged by a team that relies on
translatewiki.net translations, but did not got your message, or did
not understood it? Nothing? If so, why can't we continue editing our
very own localization files, and solve the issue your team is working
on – whatever it is – independent from that?

TL;DR: What is going on?

Best
Thiemo

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