Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
With the impending Bugzilla 4 release, I would like to take some time in setting up the test instance to perhaps play with some of these options to see if we can tweak it into being more useful to everyone. BZ4 is coming? Cool. You can't *imagine* how happy I'd be to help with that project, Chad. :-) BZ3 can suck, but a couple of custom implementations of it (RH and SuSE Novell's are, I think, the ones I'm thinking of) showed that it could be implemented *well* if you put the work into it... Cheers, -- jra ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
BV == Brion Vibber br...@pobox.com writes: BV Bugzilla actually ships with a default robots.txt that denies everything, we BV just never removed it. :) Time to do the same for these lists. (Psst, news.tcx.org.uk is now publishing them too, one more nail in the coffin of security via obscurity.) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:46 AM, Diederik van Liere dvanli...@gmail.com wrote: So maybe we can paste these 5 steps (or something similar) in the initial form used to file a bugreport. This would increase the quality of bugreports and make it easier for bug triaging. Increase the quality perhaps, but also increase the the barrier of reporting bugs, and that is something that is not very good imho. I don't think we have a systematic problem with bad bug reports. The systematic problem is the lack of replies from developers. Bryan ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
I am not following this line of reasoning: how can adding guidance / instructions on how to write a good bug report turn people away? In a previous life, I have studied the factors that shorten the time required to fix a big. Bugreports that contain steps to reproduce are a significant predictor to shorten the time to fix a bug. You can find the paper here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1507233 A systematic lack of replies is also an issue but this solution was not aimed at fixing that problem. On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:39 AM, Bryan Tong Minh bryan.tongm...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:46 AM, Diederik van Liere dvanli...@gmail.com wrote: So maybe we can paste these 5 steps (or something similar) in the initial form used to file a bugreport. This would increase the quality of bugreports and make it easier for bug triaging. Increase the quality perhaps, but also increase the the barrier of reporting bugs, and that is something that is not very good imho. I don't think we have a systematic problem with bad bug reports. The systematic problem is the lack of replies from developers. Bryan ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- a href=http://about.me/diederik;Check out my about.me profile!/a ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
2011/2/14 Diederik van Liere dvanli...@gmail.com: I am not following this line of reasoning: how can adding guidance / instructions on how to write a good bug report turn people away? It's very simple, really: a form with a lot of fields may turn people away. I know that it turns me away. How many people are like me in this regard? That is someone that should be studied. I still do report bugs in Firefox, despite the many field in the form, but i can easily imagine people who won't. In a previous life, I have studied the factors that shorten the time required to fix a big. Bugreports that contain steps to reproduce are a significant predictor to shorten the time to fix a bug. You can find the paper here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1507233 That makes perfect sense, but that's the developer side side of the question. I'm talking about the user side. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
Maybe i am not expressing myself clear, i am not talking about adding checkboxes, radiobuttons or pulldown menus, I am saying that we could add the following text to the textarea field which contains the actual bugreport: Please describe the steps to take to reproduce the problem: What is the expected result: What is the actual result: If you know which version you are using or you have other information that you think might be helpful please add it as well. You can also describe the problem in your own words and not sticking to the abovementioned questions. So, again I am not saying we should add fields, we could add this text as the default text in the textarea so people have a bit more guidance when writing a bugreport. No hard checks, nothing is mandatory. On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: 2011/2/14 Diederik van Liere dvanli...@gmail.com: I am not following this line of reasoning: how can adding guidance / instructions on how to write a good bug report turn people away? It's very simple, really: a form with a lot of fields may turn people away. I know that it turns me away. How many people are like me in this regard? That is someone that should be studied. I still do report bugs in Firefox, despite the many field in the form, but i can easily imagine people who won't. In a previous life, I have studied the factors that shorten the time required to fix a big. Bugreports that contain steps to reproduce are a significant predictor to shorten the time to fix a bug. You can find the paper here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1507233 That makes perfect sense, but that's the developer side side of the question. I'm talking about the user side. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- a href=http://about.me/diederik;Check out my about.me profile!/a ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
On 14 February 2011 04:16, Daniel Friesen li...@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote: Actually our users could be anyone who reads Wikipedia and notices there's something wrong with what MediaWiki is doing or thinks there is something about the ui we need to fix. A few of these come into OTRS, specifically the technical issues subqueue of info-en. Most aren't bug reports, a few would count as such. Getting technical information from nontechnical users is always a tricky one ... does anyone here keep an eye on that subqueue? - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
* Daniel Friesen li...@nadir-seen-fire.com [Sun, 13 Feb 2011 20:16:53 -0800]: Actually our users could be anyone who reads Wikipedia and notices there's something wrong with what MediaWiki is doing or thinks there is something about the ui we need to fix. They don't even have to be as advanced as a Firefox user... they could be a random human who doesn't even know they can install a browser other than Internet Explorer on their computer. If someone is already saying it's harder to report a bug to Mozilla about something they usually install themselves, I don't think we want reporting to be as hard when we have users who don't even know it's something they can install. If I understood you correctly (I am not native English speaker), you propose to have built-in bug submission feature in MediaWiki core, so anyone can submit an issue with one button click. Great idea, imho. Dmitriy ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 5:28 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Mark A. Hershberger wrote: Perhaps we could recruit some people from the he.wikipedia.org community to take problems reported (via the localized interface?) and reproduce them or act as a translator between developers and bug reporters? There is already some infrastructure for this kind of idea: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-ambassadors I didn't know about this mailing list until a few days ago, but it's a start in building the bridge between MediaWiki development and (power-)users. MZMcBride Fascinating! I didn't know this existed either. To answer Mark's question, I'm interested in facilitating more user participation in bug-collecting. Using Bugzilla confuses the heck out of me, but mostly because I don't do it very often! There are many good ideas in this list. I have one small idea re: bugzilla -- is it possible to make browsing bugs more transparent (like a link on the sidebar)? I only just discovered that it's possible to look at bugs by category, component or keyword rather than search, and for the hapless newbie who is nonetheless sometimes interested in looking (at) bugs to see what's going on (like me) it would help. First rule of taxonomies: everyone describes stuff differently, so browse is useful :) -- phoebe -- * I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers at gmail.com * ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com writes: Fascinating! I didn't know this existed either. To answer Mark's question, I'm interested in facilitating more user participation in bug-collecting. Using Bugzilla confuses the heck out of me, but mostly because I don't do it very often! Bugzilla is a huge impediment to problem reporting for lay people. Even technically trained ones, like myself, look at the UI and groan. I want to do as much as possible to make problem reporting easier while still retaining some quality-control on the bug reports themselves. Mark. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Mark A. Hershberger mhershber...@wikimedia.org wrote: Bugzilla is a huge impediment to problem reporting for lay people. Even technically trained ones, like myself, look at the UI and groan. I want to do as much as possible to make problem reporting easier while still retaining some quality-control on the bug reports themselves. Mark. Part of this is because default configuration for Bugzilla *sucks* The workflow doesn't have to be so awful, and the fields don't have to be so scary. We've just never taken the time to tune it properly to make it nicer easier to use. I'm not saying it's the best tool in the world (actually all bug trackers suck, I've never used one I really liked), but we're certainly not using it to its full potential. With the impending Bugzilla 4 release, I would like to take some time in setting up the test instance to perhaps play with some of these options to see if we can tweak it into being more useful to everyone. -Chad ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
David Gerard wrote: On 14 February 2011 17:40, Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com wrote: If you don't know what version you're using, the bug report will be next to useless, particularly if it's fire and forget. Any bug system has to capture everything possible, obviously. Including private or semi-private information (such as installed fonts, IP address, user-agent string, referring web page, etc.)? While some information can definitely be helpful to resolving a bug, there are privacy (policy) considerations to make as well. It's bad enough that Bugzilla currently requires using your e-mail address (which ends up getting spammed, for the record). As Mark has hinted at (or even directly said), a bug filing wizard in a MediaWiki extension seems like the way to go here. I suppose we should have a bug about writing that MZMcBride ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
phoebe ayers wrote: There are many good ideas in this list. I have one small idea re: bugzilla -- is it possible to make browsing bugs more transparent (like a link on the sidebar)? I only just discovered that it's possible to look at bugs by category, component or keyword rather than search, and for the hapless newbie who is nonetheless sometimes interested in looking (at) bugs to see what's going on (like me) it would help. First rule of taxonomies: everyone describes stuff differently, so browse is useful :) I don't know about others, but I personally find the Bugzilla interface to be a complete pain-in-the-ass and just generally awful. Any search of the bugs in the system is often slow and filled with noise. One way to solve this is to bypass the current Bugzilla interface altogether. In the same way that people can create neat and awesome tools using the replicated wiki databases, the Bugzilla database can (and should) be replicated to Toolserver users to allow them to have direct database access. Direct database access makes it infinitely easier to build tools that could, for example, support a better tagging system. I'd like to see all bugs that affect wikipedia, that affect en.wikipedia, that are user interface related, etc. A separate tags system would be awesome, in my view, as the one in Bugzilla currently sucks. Direct database access also would allow for better (and faster) reports that could be output in a web tool or on a wiki (with versioning!). Which bugs have the most comments? Which bugs have no comments? Some of this information is query-able from the Bugzilla interface, but as I said, it's very slow to query and getting the query written takes way more time and energy than it should (if it's possible at all). To this end, I filed a JIRA ticket with the Toolserver ops about getting the Wikimedia Bugzilla database replicated with public views: https://jira.toolserver.org/browse/TS-901 I have no tricks up my sleeve to get this moving along other than occasionally poking people about it, though. :-) MZMcBride ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:01 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: I don't think there's going to be any magical set of configuration changes to make Bugzilla less horrible, but it's certainly worth a shot. Neither do I, Bugzilla is always going to suck. Maybe we can make it suck a little less though ;-) In the meantime, I've filed bug 27421, Write and implement bug reporting wizard: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27421 I mentioned this earlier today in IRC, but I'll mention it again here on- list. Take a look at the Guided format[0] for entering bugs. These templates can be customized, and I think we can use that as a starting point for creating nicer bug input forms (think: separate forms for enhancements vs. actual bugs). -Chad [0] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=MediaWikiformat=guided ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Leo diebu...@gmail.com wrote: One thing that bugged me a while: Why does the bz robots.txt deny any bots? I think having it indexed by google co would'nt exactly make searching harder. Bugzilla actually ships with a default robots.txt that denies everything, we just never removed it. :) I don't know offhand how friendly Bugzilla is to direct indexing, but did stumble on some sort of extension to generate a sitemap (have not used it, don't know if it works well): http://code.google.com/p/bugzilla-sitemap/ Might also want to double-check if the issue of exposing commenters' raw email addresses to unlogged-in spiders has been resolved. -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Leo diebu...@gmail.com wrote: One thing that bugged me a while: Why does the bz robots.txt deny any bots? I think having it indexed by google co would'nt exactly make searching harder. Leo Probably because historically you couldn't hide email addresses from anon (non logged in) users, and well not everyone is a fan of having their email harvested by bots that obey the robots file. -Peachey ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
I promise I don't have anything more to write today, but MZ pointed out I neglected to finish my thought here: Also, at some point I want to provide a better way — better than just the complicated and confusing native Bugzilla interface — for collecting bug reports. Having the input of a non-technical user who could help us identify the really confusing parts of the interface, or just help us focus on the parts of the interface that a web user is able to report quickly will enable us to find a way to gather feedback from all our users, not just the ones who can navigate to IRC or through Bugzilla. Mark. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
2011/2/14 Mark A. Hershberger mhershber...@wikimedia.org: I promise I don't have anything more to write today Actually, i enjoyed reading this string of emails from The 'Meister. Also, at some point I want to provide a better way — better than just the complicated and confusing native Bugzilla interface — for collecting bug reports. Having the input of a non-technical user who could help us identify the really confusing parts of the interface, or just help us focus on the parts of the interface that a web user is able to report quickly will enable us to find a way to gather feedback from all our users, not just the ones who can navigate to IRC or through Bugzilla. That would be a Good Thing, but i must point out that it is already *relatively* easier than in some bug trackers. bugzilla.wikimedia.org is the tracker where i report more bugs than elsewhere. The second is bugzilla.mozilla.org . It's not because Firefox has less bugs (quite the contrary!) but because Mozilla's tracker requires me to fill more fields, such as steps for reproduction. This may encourage detailed reporting that helps developers solve the bugs, but it may also discourage people from reporting them in the first place. I don't have precise data about this, which means that bug reporting should be included in the next round of usability testing. (There will be another round of usability testing One Day, right?) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
2011/2/14 Mark A. Hershberger mhershber...@wikimedia.org: Also, at some point I want to provide a better way — better than just the complicated and confusing native Bugzilla interface — for collecting bug reports. Oh, and of course, as much i love Bugzilla (really!), it has a very serious problem: It only works in English. People who can't write in English want to report bugs, too. Unfortunately, even if the interface of Bugzilla would be localized, people who can't write in English won't be able to write bug reports that would be useful to MediaWiki developers, but a structured way for collecting but reports in other languages and having them translated would be nice. he.wikipedia has a page for collecting bug reports, but since it's not really structured, it's not really maintained. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il writes: he.wikipedia has a page for collecting bug reports, but since it's not really structured, it's not really maintained. Perhaps we could recruit some people from the he.wikipedia.org community to take problems reported (via the localized interface?) and reproduce them or act as a “translator” between developers and bug reporters? Mark. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Mark A. Hershberger wrote: Amir E. Aharoni writes: he.wikipedia has a page for collecting bug reports, but since it's not really structured, it's not really maintained. Perhaps we could recruit some people from the he.wikipedia.org community to take problems reported (via the localized interface?) and reproduce them or act as a “translator” between developers and bug reporters? I'd definitely recommend looking at Firefox's beta feedback dashboard: http://input.mozilla.com/en-US/beta/ They've got a big fat Feedback button on Firefox 4 beta, which gives two simple options: 'Firefox made me happy because...' 'Firefox made me sad because...' Those take you to an input box with a limited one-line freetext field and an optional box to paste a URL. Locale, operating system, and version are automatically associated with the report. The output is then publicly available for review, filtering, translation, and collection. Being able to tag and collect a lot of similar quick issue reports, and maybe then attach those *to* a bug entry, could be pretty awesome. -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
Mark A. Hershberger wrote: Perhaps we could recruit some people from the he.wikipedia.org community to take problems reported (via the localized interface?) and reproduce them or act as a translator between developers and bug reporters? There is already some infrastructure for this kind of idea: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-ambassadors I didn't know about this mailing list until a few days ago, but it's a start in building the bridge between MediaWiki development and (power-)users. MZMcBride ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
I think we can draw some inspiration from Mozilla's use of Bugzilla and particular the format they are encourage users when submitting a bugreport: 1) Steps to reproduce 2) Expected result 3) Actual result 4) Reproducible (by bugreporter): always / sometimes 5) Version information, extensions installed, database used (this information is dependent on the skill level of the bugreporter and maybe we can add make this information easily retrievable if it's current not easy to determine. So maybe we can paste these 5 steps (or something similar) in the initial form used to file a bugreport. This would increase the quality of bugreports and make it easier for bug triaging. On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 8:28 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Mark A. Hershberger wrote: Perhaps we could recruit some people from the he.wikipedia.org community to take problems reported (via the localized interface?) and reproduce them or act as a translator between developers and bug reporters? There is already some infrastructure for this kind of idea: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-ambassadors I didn't know about this mailing list until a few days ago, but it's a start in building the bridge between MediaWiki development and (power-)users. MZMcBride ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- a href=http://about.me/diederik;Check out my about.me profile!/a ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] How users without programming skills can help
That's exactly my point :) Most Firefox bugreporters are ordinary users so if they are able to report a bug then Mediawiki users can do it as well because they are basically the same group of Internet users. And again, my suggestion is not hard, it's about giving ordinary people a number of things they might want to think about when submitting a report. This certainly will not scare people away, in the worst case they will ignore the questions. On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Daniel Friesen li...@nadir-seen-fire.comwrote: Actually our users could be anyone who reads Wikipedia and notices there's something wrong with what MediaWiki is doing or thinks there is something about the ui we need to fix. They don't even have to be as advanced as a Firefox user... they could be a random human who doesn't even know they can install a browser other than Internet Explorer on their computer. If someone is already saying it's harder to report a bug to Mozilla about something they usually install themselves, I don't think we want reporting to be as hard when we have users who don't even know it's something they can install. ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name] On 11-02-13 07:53 PM, Diederik van Liere wrote: Dear James, Amir and fellow wikimedia devs, I understand your concern and I am not suggesting that we should force a user to enter all Bugzilla fields but add those 5 questions as a guideline in the free-text form. Reporters can use it when they feel uncertain what information we are looking for but they are not forced to stick to any format in particular. Additionally, I think that Mediawiki users are as technological advanced as Firefox users so I don't think this will scare somebody away. If we really want to make it easier for people to file a bug then we should add a simple wizard to guide them through the process. In particular choosing the right product and component can be quite confusing / intimidating for somebody new to Medawiki. On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 9:43 PM, James Alexander jalexan...@wikimedia.orgwrote: On 2/13/2011 8:46 PM, Diederik van Liere wrote: I think we can draw some inspiration from Mozilla's use of Bugzilla and particular the format they are encourage users when submitting a bugreport: 1) Steps to reproduce 2) Expected result 3) Actual result 4) Reproducible (by bugreporter): always / sometimes 5) Version information, extensions installed, database used (this information is dependent on the skill level of the bugreporter and maybe we can add make this information easily retrievable if it's current not easy to determine. So maybe we can paste these 5 steps (or something similar) in the initial form used to file a bugreport. This would increase the quality of bugreports and make it easier for bug triaging. I can totally understand the idea behind this but I think Amir brings up the concern about this best: On 2/13/2011 5:56 PM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: bugzilla.wikimedia.org is the tracker where i report more bugs than elsewhere. The second is bugzilla.mozilla.org . It's not because Firefox has less bugs (quite the contrary!) but because Mozilla's tracker requires me to fill more fields, such as steps for reproduction. This may encourage detailed reporting that helps developers solve the bugs, but it may also discourage people from reporting them in the first place. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l Gathering all that information on a bug report form could quite clearly make it easier to reproduce bugs and may make resolving them easier but I worry that the harder and/or more complicated we make the reporting the more likely we are to scare someone away from taking the time to file the bug (which we want). I'm not totally sure where the best balance there is. -- James Alexander Associate Community Officer Wikimedia Foundation jalexan...@wikimedia.org +1-415-839-6885 x6716 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- a href=http://about.me/diederik;Check out my about.me profile!/a ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
