Re: [Wikitech-l] New, lower traffic, announcements only email list for Wikimedia developers
Hi, [cc:ing wikimedia-l because this message is also for Wikimedia users.] I've been asked to weigh in on this topic, because this is going to be an area of focus for me over the coming year. I've been tasked with improving the 2-way communication between users & developers, possibly using the wikitech-ambassadors list as a medium. A few people have already explained the scope of the different lists, but here's my understanding: * wikitech-l: A high-traffic, unapologetically technical, discussion list for developers talking to developers * wikitech-announce: A low-traffic, plain English, announce-only list for developers talking to Wikimedia users * wikitech-ambassadors: A (currently) low-traffic, mostly-announce list for developers talking to Wikimedia users * mediawiki-announce: A low-traffic, announce-only list for developers talking to (mostly 3rd-party) MediaWiki users * wikimediaannounce: A low-traffic, plain English, announce-only list for general Wikimedia usues. And the possible change would be for wikitech-ambassadors to become a medium-to-high-traffic, plain English, list for discussion between developers and Wikimedia users, to report issues, share ideas and provide feedback in unapologetically layman terms. The "Ambassadors" part also means that users who are on that list will have a role in disseminating information to their local communities, and reporting back issues possibly raised on local wikis. FYI, if you're at Wikimania this week, this 2-way communication channel between developers and users will be a main focus of the "Transparency" discussion with Sumana, Rob and myself on Saturday 14 at 10:30 in Room 310: https://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Transparency_and_collaboration_in_Wikimedia_engineering I've also just noticed that there are two other talks related to this topic: * Oliver's "Engaging the Community: What We've Tried and Where We're Going" (Thursday July 12, 11:40, Room 310) https://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Engaging_the_Community:_What_We%27ve_Tried_and_Where_We%27re_Going * Tilman and Max's "Movement Broadcasting - 'Stop Spamming' vs. 'Nobody Told Me" (Thursday, July 12, 14:00, Room 302) https://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Movement_Broadcasting_-_%27Stop_Spamming%27_vs._%27Nobody_Told_Me%27 If you can't attend any of those sessions, but you want to discuss / rant / share ideas about (mis)communication between MediaWiki developers and Wikimedia users, please come to me at any time during the hackathon or the conference (If we don't already know each other, my photo is on https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Staff_and_contractors ) And if you're not at Wikimania, feel free to drop me an e-mail with your thoughts on the subject. -- Guillaume Paumier Technical Communications Manager — Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] New, lower traffic, announcements only email list for Wikimedia developers
Practically, though, the difference is minimal. The "ambassadors" are just the tech-savvy non-English-only interested users who spread the word in the non-English Wikimedia world, which is exactly what happens with any announcement English-only list. The two differences I see are that wikitech-announce is meant for developers rather than users and that -ambassadors is a "lowest traffic" list. I don't know if it's worth it, in any case please please describe their scopes very well: many mailing lists are not necessarily bad, but they surely are if their scope is confused. Nemo ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] New, lower traffic, announcements only email list for Wikimedia developers
On Jun 30, 2012, at 9:17 AM, Gregory Varnum wrote: > On 30 Jun, 2012, at 2:59 AM, Platonides wrote: > >> On 30/06/12 07:23, Gregory Varnum wrote: >>> wikitech-announce will be used for occasional announcements on both >>> MediaWiki and broader Wikimedia developer related news items >> >> How does the new wikitech-announce compare with the existing >> wikitech-ambassadors? >> They both seem to have a similar scope/contents. >> > > My understanding is that one is meant for internal, vs. external developers, > focusing specifically on WMF projects. > Indeed, that's exactly what it is for. When we are planning to deploy something that requires wikis to change something, we'd reach out through those ambassadors who translate it into their own wiki (if needed) and do or make sure is done, whatever needs doing. -- Krinkle ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] New, lower traffic, announcements only email list for Wikimedia developers
My understanding is that one is meant for internal, vs. external developers, focusing specifically on WMF projects. The description states: "Coordination of technology deployments across languages/projects" and looking at the archives it is mostly about localisation issues. My impression was someone like a student or corporate wiki administrator would have little interest in it - at least based on the description. However, if I am wrong, perhaps we can merge the two? Ambassadors seems like a strange name to use if it really is meant for announcements about Wikimedia/MediaWiki development. At the very least the description would need an overhaul since several people did not see that list as being an overlap. -greg On 30 Jun, 2012, at 2:59 AM, Platonides wrote: > On 30/06/12 07:23, Gregory Varnum wrote: >> wikitech-announce will be used for occasional announcements on both >> MediaWiki and broader Wikimedia developer related news items > > How does the new wikitech-announce compare with the existing > wikitech-ambassadors? > They both seem to have a similar scope/contents. > > > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] New, lower traffic, announcements only email list for Wikimedia developers
On 30/06/12 07:23, Gregory Varnum wrote: > wikitech-announce will be used for occasional announcements on both MediaWiki > and broader Wikimedia developer related news items How does the new wikitech-announce compare with the existing wikitech-ambassadors? They both seem to have a similar scope/contents. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] New, lower traffic, announcements only email list for Wikimedia developers
On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 7:23 AM, Gregory Varnum wrote: > Greetings, > > Following discussions with Wikimedia developers more on the "fringe" and > not as engaged in frequent IRC or mailing list conversations, the request > for an announcements only mailing list came up. I wanted to let folks know > that this list has been created and is ready for membership: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-announce - > wikitech-annou...@lists.wikimedia.org There will also be a signup list > for this and other lists at Wikimania Hackathon. > > Unlike this list, which allows for discussion, or the MediaWiki-announce > list, which focuses exclusively on MediaWiki release announcements, > wikitech-announce will be used for occasional announcements on both > MediaWiki and broader Wikimedia developer related news items. This > includes an announcement when monthly tech or engineering reports are > posted, important news updates on git or developer related tools, and > information on upcoming sprints, events or other major developer > collaborations. > > A few boolean rules I'd like to have confirmed or denied (I'm not for or against any of these per se, just want to make sure it is clear what the intension is) * Any and all emails to wikitech-announce will also go to wikitech-l. Meaning, those that want to stay on the discussion list will not have to maintain another queue. * Any and all emails to mediawiki-announce will also go to wikitech-announce. I don't mind either way, just want to know if the audience is considered a superset of mediawiki-announce. In which case developers that feel more integrated and want to get both, only have to subscribe to one of them. * Any and all emails to mediawiki-api-announce will also go to wikitech-announce. Again, just curious. I'm not vouching for or against it. > > Thank you! > -greg aka varnent > > Thank you! -- Krinkle ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] New, lower traffic, announcements only email list for Wikimedia developers
Greetings, Following discussions with Wikimedia developers more on the "fringe" and not as engaged in frequent IRC or mailing list conversations, the request for an announcements only mailing list came up. I wanted to let folks know that this list has been created and is ready for membership: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-announce - wikitech-annou...@lists.wikimedia.org There will also be a signup list for this and other lists at Wikimania Hackathon. Unlike this list, which allows for discussion, or the MediaWiki-announce list, which focuses exclusively on MediaWiki release announcements, wikitech-announce will be used for occasional announcements on both MediaWiki and broader Wikimedia developer related news items. This includes an announcement when monthly tech or engineering reports are posted, important news updates on git or developer related tools, and information on upcoming sprints, events or other major developer collaborations. Having presented this idea a few times, there are some common questions I will get out of the way now. Why not just send these out on MediaWiki-announce? There was quick reaction from several of these less-engaged developers that some really did want JUST MediaWiki release info sent out on that list. In other words, the audience of that list did not like the idea. Will this duplicate emails sent to wikitech-l? Probably, but it is not designed for folks already utilizing wikitech-l - it is designed for folks who would like less email traffic and want announcements - not conversations. Is this really going to save folks that many emails? In June, the wikitech-l list had 639 individual messages (so far). It is unlikely that this list would exceed 12 a month. For reference, MediaWiki-announce has sent out 3 messages this month and mediawiki-l had 121 messages. This list presents a middle ground between the two extremes. Do we not already have enough lists? Yes, but as our developer community grows, so too must our means of communicating. Many individuals, myself included, have been intentionally trying to engage developers generally less present, but just as important to our community. Such as corporate developers with an interest in sharing extensions who can benefit from announcements about git. Similarly, some students would prefer to get basic info that helps them stay on top of the latest developments. Generally, if you find yourself having a concern about this list, it is probably not the list for you to join. However, if you find yourself excited at the idea of less development chatter while remaining informed, this might just be the list for you. Thank you to Sumana and TheHelpfulOne for supporting this effort and to Daniel Renfro for proposing this idea and getting the discussion started. I have volunteered to moderate the list at its start, but will be interested in recruiting others that are willing to help. Anyone with an announcement can submit one, and a moderator will approve messages which fit within the list's scope. Finally, like any new tool, I anticipate its usage will evolve over time - so please do engage in discussion on any ideas you may have for its future. Thank you! -greg aka varnent ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
