Re: [Wikitech-l] Wednesday wikipedia shut down does not get through
On 19 January 2012 02:48, Daniel Friesen li...@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote: You do realize that going by what you are saying. If 503's weren't cached for that reason, then EVERY single request would be forwarded to the apaches. I'm talking about external caches, as I assumed everyone else was. The internal caches are entirely under the WMF's control so they can be made to do whatever the WMF wants them to do. There's no problem there. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Wednesday wikipedia shut down does not get through
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:56 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: On 19 January 2012 02:48, Daniel Friesen li...@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote: You do realize that going by what you are saying. If 503's weren't cached for that reason, then EVERY single request would be forwarded to the apaches. I'm talking about external caches, as I assumed everyone else was. The internal caches are entirely under the WMF's control so they can be made to do whatever the WMF wants them to do. There's no problem there. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l The operations team can indeed do whatever they want, however they do not have infinite amount of time to determine how to do it and test it -- John ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Wednesday wikipedia shut down does not get through
On 19/01/12 11:56, Thomas Dalton wrote: On 19 January 2012 02:48, Daniel Friesenli...@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote: You do realize that going by what you are saying. If 503's weren't cached for that reason, then EVERY single request would be forwarded to the apaches. I'm talking about external caches, as I assumed everyone else was. The internal caches are entirely under the WMF's control so they can be made to do whatever the WMF wants them to do. There's no problem there. I suppose the 503 could be provided by the squids for en.wikipedia urls, instead of by the origin servers. That probably also means starting with an empty enwiki squid cache after the blackout. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Wednesday wikipedia shut down does not get through
(I sent this already in reply to another thread but with too narrow topic, and i think it's important enough to deserve its own. So pls excuse if you already read this.) To make the redirect a javascript is not a good idea. At least 2,213,922 users will never see it https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/noscript/?src=search and maybe way, way more since there are many similar features on any browser or platform. Today, virtually NONE of my (many) friends ever noticed something changed, until i told them. And even with js, you can see the 'real' page popping up first before the redirect takes action. It does not feel like 'oops wikipedia is gone !!?' but more like just another anyyoing advert. You should do a straightforward real shutdown instead, and deliver a fake 404 with explanation link. And for several more days. And yes i would even block editing since this is also alerting people. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Wednesday wikipedia shut down does not get through
Michael wrote: Date: 2012-01-18 16:18:15 GMT (1 hour and 11 minutes ago) To make the redirect a javascript is not a good idea. +100 At least 2,213,922 users will never see it https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/noscript/?src=search and maybe way, way more since there are many similar features on any browser or platform. Today, virtually NONE of my (many) friends ever noticed something changed, until i told them. And even with js, you can see the 'real' page popping up first before the redirect takes action. It does not feel like 'oops wikipedia is gone !!?' but more like just another anyyoing advert. You should do a straightforward real shutdown instead, and deliver a fake 404 with explanation link. And for several more days. +1 And yes i would even block editing since this is also alerting people. +1 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Wednesday wikipedia shut down does not get through
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Thomas Gries m...@tgries.de wrote: You should do a straightforward real shutdown instead, and deliver a fake 404 with explanation link. And for several more days. +1 Doing it via 404s would mess up search engines. -Chad ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Wednesday wikipedia shut down does not get through
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Chad innocentkil...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Thomas Gries m...@tgries.de wrote: You should do a straightforward real shutdown instead, and deliver a fake 404 with explanation link. And for several more days. +1 Doing it via 404s would mess up search engines. -Chad Do it via 503's then. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Wednesday wikipedia shut down does not get through
Cache pollution. On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:57 PM, OQ overlo...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Chad innocentkil...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Thomas Gries m...@tgries.de wrote: You should do a straightforward real shutdown instead, and deliver a fake 404 with explanation link. And for several more days. +1 Doing it via 404s would mess up search engines. -Chad Do it via 503's then. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- John ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Wednesday wikipedia shut down does not get through
On 18 January 2012 22:14, John Du Hart compwhi...@gmail.com wrote: Cache pollution. It would have to be a severely broken cache to be polluted by a 503. 503 is for temporary unavailability, you would be stupid to cache it. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Wednesday wikipedia shut down does not get through
On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:29:31 -0800, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: On 18 January 2012 22:14, John Du Hart compwhi...@gmail.com wrote: Cache pollution. It would have to be a severely broken cache to be polluted by a 503. 503 is for temporary unavailability, you would be stupid to cache it. You do realize that going by what you are saying. If 503's weren't cached for that reason, then EVERY single request would be forwarded to the apaches. That means all the cache optimization would disappear and ALL of Wikipedia's IMMENSE anonymous user traffic that's been sustained by the caches would suddenly start all hitting the apaches. Naturally the cluster is not designed to handle that. In fact I bet it could take down the blackout page by essentially DoSing Wikipedia. -- ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name] ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
