Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 6:05 AM, Jon Robson wrote: > I'm confused. Why wouldn't you just mark a user account as being a bot and > simply determine bot edits from username alone? > Volume? Cluebot does a high volume of edits, but as mentioned, doesn't want the edit hidden from RC. > > Any other mechanism seems prone to abuse or being inaccurate... > On 20 May 2014 07:36, "Amir Ladsgroup" wrote: > > > Thank you legoktm for exampling, > > Another case that happened in Persian Wikipedia, is creating > bot-generated > > articles by user request this task is too contervisal to be marked as bot > > and we didn't mark it but other edits of my bot is marked as bot > > > > Best > > > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Legoktm > >wrote: > > > > > > > > On 5/19/14, 6:39 PM, Dan Garry wrote: > > > > > >> On 19 May 2014 19:36, Amir Ladsgroup wrote: > > >> > > >> As a bot operator I think API parameter about flagging bot or not is > > >>> necessary > > >>> > > >>> Sure, but as I'm not a bot operator, can you explain why and what > you > > >> use > > >> this for, to help me understand? :-) > > >> > > > > > > If the edits should show up in users watchlists/recentchanges for > humans > > > to look at. An example would be ClueBot NG on enwp which doesn't flag > > it's > > > edits with the bot flag so humans can review them. > > > > > > Another case where this recently came up is in MassMessage (bug 65180). > > > Some edits like those to user talk pages should be marked as a bot > since > > > the user will receive a notification regardless, but ones that are made > > to > > > Project (or other) namespaces, should not be flagged as bot so users > will > > > see them in their watchlists. > > > > > > -- Legoktm > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Amir > > ___ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Dan Garry wrote: >1. When editing via the API, allows the user to choose whether or not to >flag an edit as a bot edit using the bot parameter. >2. When editing via the standard editing interface, flags all edits >(i.e. all human made edits) as bot edits. > Note for #2, it's possible to submit the edit with a "bot=0" parameter to avoid the edit being marked as "bot". This also works for logged actions (which someday need to be fixed in the API to be able to be non-flagged, much as was done for edits in r29540). I've always thought the reasons for this disparate behavior are primarily historical: Way back, there was no editing API and the bot userright forced edits from the account to be marked as bot edits. But people discovered, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, that some edits by accounts that should have the bot flag shouldn't be hidden from Watchlists and RecentChanges; on enwiki at least, this led to some bot accounts not being flagged as such. And eventually things were changed so that the flagging of the edit was optional rather than a requirement. For index.php edits this had to be done in a "specify that you don't want this edit flagged" manner to avoid breaking all the existing code. But for the new editing API it could be done more directly, so it was. As for the lack of a UI for "bot=0" in index.php edits, I expect it's both because others don't want to clutter the UI either and because the editing API now exists for actual bots. 1. What's the user story for including the edit-level granularity for >bot accounts in the API? > "bot" flagging of edits essentially controls whether the edits are hidden by default in Watchlists and RecentChanges. Many bots make a mixture of edits that should be hidden and edits that should not be. 2. What's the user story for making it so that every edit made by a >human on a bot account is flagged as bot edit? > I don't know of one, besides historical reasons as mentioned above. I don't know about the policies on other wikis, but on enwiki a human editing with a bot-flagged account is explicitly doing so to have those edits hidden from RecentChanges and is supposed to use a "regular" account for their normal editing. -- Brad Jorsch (Anomie) Software Engineer Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 5:41 PM, Jon Robson wrote: > So bot tasks are sometimes performed from user accounts that don't belong > to bots... o_O why?! > No, some of bots tasks needs to be seen and reviewed by others, for example there are bots that do task per user request in a page (like an automated vending machine that people can go to a page and request things and bots do it automatically), or automated reverts (that are being made by clue bot NG) or other things that people exampled before in this discussion > > (forgive my naivety I come into this conversation as an outside with no > prior knowledge of how this stuff works) > On 20 May 2014 14:09, "Amir Ladsgroup" wrote: > > > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Jon Robson wrote: > > > > > I'm confused. Why wouldn't you just mark a user account as being a bot > > and > > > simply determine bot edits from username alone? > > > > > > Any other mechanism seems prone to abuse or being inaccurate... > > > > > People gave several examples of bot tasks that needs to be seen in RC and > > they weren't abuse > > > > > > > On 20 May 2014 07:36, "Amir Ladsgroup" wrote: > > > > > > > Thank you legoktm for exampling, > > > > Another case that happened in Persian Wikipedia, is creating > > > bot-generated > > > > articles by user request this task is too contervisal to be marked as > > bot > > > > and we didn't mark it but other edits of my bot is marked as bot > > > > > > > > Best > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Legoktm < > legoktm.wikipe...@gmail.com > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/19/14, 6:39 PM, Dan Garry wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> On 19 May 2014 19:36, Amir Ladsgroup wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> As a bot operator I think API parameter about flagging bot or not > > is > > > > >>> necessary > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Sure, but as I'm not a bot operator, can you explain why and > what > > > you > > > > >> use > > > > >> this for, to help me understand? :-) > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > If the edits should show up in users watchlists/recentchanges for > > > humans > > > > > to look at. An example would be ClueBot NG on enwp which doesn't > flag > > > > it's > > > > > edits with the bot flag so humans can review them. > > > > > > > > > > Another case where this recently came up is in MassMessage (bug > > 65180). > > > > > Some edits like those to user talk pages should be marked as a bot > > > since > > > > > the user will receive a notification regardless, but ones that are > > made > > > > to > > > > > Project (or other) namespaces, should not be flagged as bot so > users > > > will > > > > > see them in their watchlists. > > > > > > > > > > -- Legoktm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Amir > > > > ___ > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > ___ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Amir > > ___ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > -- Amir ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
So bot tasks are sometimes performed from user accounts that don't belong to bots... o_O why?! (forgive my naivety I come into this conversation as an outside with no prior knowledge of how this stuff works) On 20 May 2014 14:09, "Amir Ladsgroup" wrote: > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Jon Robson wrote: > > > I'm confused. Why wouldn't you just mark a user account as being a bot > and > > simply determine bot edits from username alone? > > > > Any other mechanism seems prone to abuse or being inaccurate... > > > People gave several examples of bot tasks that needs to be seen in RC and > they weren't abuse > > > > On 20 May 2014 07:36, "Amir Ladsgroup" wrote: > > > > > Thank you legoktm for exampling, > > > Another case that happened in Persian Wikipedia, is creating > > bot-generated > > > articles by user request this task is too contervisal to be marked as > bot > > > and we didn't mark it but other edits of my bot is marked as bot > > > > > > Best > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Legoktm > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/19/14, 6:39 PM, Dan Garry wrote: > > > > > > > >> On 19 May 2014 19:36, Amir Ladsgroup wrote: > > > >> > > > >> As a bot operator I think API parameter about flagging bot or not > is > > > >>> necessary > > > >>> > > > >>> Sure, but as I'm not a bot operator, can you explain why and what > > you > > > >> use > > > >> this for, to help me understand? :-) > > > >> > > > > > > > > If the edits should show up in users watchlists/recentchanges for > > humans > > > > to look at. An example would be ClueBot NG on enwp which doesn't flag > > > it's > > > > edits with the bot flag so humans can review them. > > > > > > > > Another case where this recently came up is in MassMessage (bug > 65180). > > > > Some edits like those to user talk pages should be marked as a bot > > since > > > > the user will receive a notification regardless, but ones that are > made > > > to > > > > Project (or other) namespaces, should not be flagged as bot so users > > will > > > > see them in their watchlists. > > > > > > > > -- Legoktm > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Amir > > > ___ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > ___ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > -- > Amir > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Jon Robson wrote: > I'm confused. Why wouldn't you just mark a user account as being a bot and > simply determine bot edits from username alone? > > Any other mechanism seems prone to abuse or being inaccurate... > People gave several examples of bot tasks that needs to be seen in RC and they weren't abuse > On 20 May 2014 07:36, "Amir Ladsgroup" wrote: > > > Thank you legoktm for exampling, > > Another case that happened in Persian Wikipedia, is creating > bot-generated > > articles by user request this task is too contervisal to be marked as bot > > and we didn't mark it but other edits of my bot is marked as bot > > > > Best > > > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Legoktm > >wrote: > > > > > > > > On 5/19/14, 6:39 PM, Dan Garry wrote: > > > > > >> On 19 May 2014 19:36, Amir Ladsgroup wrote: > > >> > > >> As a bot operator I think API parameter about flagging bot or not is > > >>> necessary > > >>> > > >>> Sure, but as I'm not a bot operator, can you explain why and what > you > > >> use > > >> this for, to help me understand? :-) > > >> > > > > > > If the edits should show up in users watchlists/recentchanges for > humans > > > to look at. An example would be ClueBot NG on enwp which doesn't flag > > it's > > > edits with the bot flag so humans can review them. > > > > > > Another case where this recently came up is in MassMessage (bug 65180). > > > Some edits like those to user talk pages should be marked as a bot > since > > > the user will receive a notification regardless, but ones that are made > > to > > > Project (or other) namespaces, should not be flagged as bot so users > will > > > see them in their watchlists. > > > > > > -- Legoktm > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Amir > > ___ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > -- Amir ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
Bot flags are only given out to people that are trusted to not abuse it. I'd say this works quite well, because cases of people abusing the fact that the bot flag hides edits from recent changes are almost entirely unheard of. Dan On 20 May 2014 09:05, Jon Robson wrote: > I'm confused. Why wouldn't you just mark a user account as being a bot and > simply determine bot edits from username alone? > > Any other mechanism seems prone to abuse or being inaccurate... > On 20 May 2014 07:36, "Amir Ladsgroup" wrote: > > > Thank you legoktm for exampling, > > Another case that happened in Persian Wikipedia, is creating > bot-generated > > articles by user request this task is too contervisal to be marked as bot > > and we didn't mark it but other edits of my bot is marked as bot > > > > Best > > > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Legoktm > >wrote: > > > > > > > > On 5/19/14, 6:39 PM, Dan Garry wrote: > > > > > >> On 19 May 2014 19:36, Amir Ladsgroup wrote: > > >> > > >> As a bot operator I think API parameter about flagging bot or not is > > >>> necessary > > >>> > > >>> Sure, but as I'm not a bot operator, can you explain why and what > you > > >> use > > >> this for, to help me understand? :-) > > >> > > > > > > If the edits should show up in users watchlists/recentchanges for > humans > > > to look at. An example would be ClueBot NG on enwp which doesn't flag > > it's > > > edits with the bot flag so humans can review them. > > > > > > Another case where this recently came up is in MassMessage (bug 65180). > > > Some edits like those to user talk pages should be marked as a bot > since > > > the user will receive a notification regardless, but ones that are made > > to > > > Project (or other) namespaces, should not be flagged as bot so users > will > > > see them in their watchlists. > > > > > > -- Legoktm > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Amir > > ___ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > -- Dan Garry Associate Product Manager for Platform and Mobile Apps Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
I'm confused. Why wouldn't you just mark a user account as being a bot and simply determine bot edits from username alone? Any other mechanism seems prone to abuse or being inaccurate... On 20 May 2014 07:36, "Amir Ladsgroup" wrote: > Thank you legoktm for exampling, > Another case that happened in Persian Wikipedia, is creating bot-generated > articles by user request this task is too contervisal to be marked as bot > and we didn't mark it but other edits of my bot is marked as bot > > Best > > > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Legoktm >wrote: > > > > > On 5/19/14, 6:39 PM, Dan Garry wrote: > > > >> On 19 May 2014 19:36, Amir Ladsgroup wrote: > >> > >> As a bot operator I think API parameter about flagging bot or not is > >>> necessary > >>> > >>> Sure, but as I'm not a bot operator, can you explain why and what you > >> use > >> this for, to help me understand? :-) > >> > > > > If the edits should show up in users watchlists/recentchanges for humans > > to look at. An example would be ClueBot NG on enwp which doesn't flag > it's > > edits with the bot flag so humans can review them. > > > > Another case where this recently came up is in MassMessage (bug 65180). > > Some edits like those to user talk pages should be marked as a bot since > > the user will receive a notification regardless, but ones that are made > to > > Project (or other) namespaces, should not be flagged as bot so users will > > see them in their watchlists. > > > > -- Legoktm > > > > > > ___ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > -- > Amir > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
Thank you legoktm for exampling, Another case that happened in Persian Wikipedia, is creating bot-generated articles by user request this task is too contervisal to be marked as bot and we didn't mark it but other edits of my bot is marked as bot Best On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Legoktm wrote: > > On 5/19/14, 6:39 PM, Dan Garry wrote: > >> On 19 May 2014 19:36, Amir Ladsgroup wrote: >> >> As a bot operator I think API parameter about flagging bot or not is >>> necessary >>> >>> Sure, but as I'm not a bot operator, can you explain why and what you >> use >> this for, to help me understand? :-) >> > > If the edits should show up in users watchlists/recentchanges for humans > to look at. An example would be ClueBot NG on enwp which doesn't flag it's > edits with the bot flag so humans can review them. > > Another case where this recently came up is in MassMessage (bug 65180). > Some edits like those to user talk pages should be marked as a bot since > the user will receive a notification regardless, but ones that are made to > Project (or other) namespaces, should not be flagged as bot so users will > see them in their watchlists. > > -- Legoktm > > > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > -- Amir ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
On 5/19/14, 6:39 PM, Dan Garry wrote: On 19 May 2014 19:36, Amir Ladsgroup wrote: As a bot operator I think API parameter about flagging bot or not is necessary Sure, but as I'm not a bot operator, can you explain why and what you use this for, to help me understand? :-) If the edits should show up in users watchlists/recentchanges for humans to look at. An example would be ClueBot NG on enwp which doesn't flag it's edits with the bot flag so humans can review them. Another case where this recently came up is in MassMessage (bug 65180). Some edits like those to user talk pages should be marked as a bot since the user will receive a notification regardless, but ones that are made to Project (or other) namespaces, should not be flagged as bot so users will see them in their watchlists. -- Legoktm ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:39 AM, Dan Garry wrote: > On 19 May 2014 19:36, Amir Ladsgroup wrote: > > > As a bot operator I think API parameter about flagging bot or not is > > necessary > > > > Sure, but as I'm not a bot operator, can you explain why and what you use > this for, to help me understand? :-) > > I think an example of bot using this API parameter is Salebot on frwiki : when it reverts a vandalism, this edit is not marked with the bot flag so that it appears in the recent changes, and made human aware that a vandalism has been reverted. For other things, it may have its edit marked with the bot flag. Nico ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
Because humans use it these days, not boys generally in the web interface
and it would just make stuff harder for people that use it…
On Tuesday, May 20, 2014, John Mark Vandenberg wrote:
> On May 20, 2014 8:39 AM, "Dan Garry" >
> wrote:
> >
> > On 19 May 2014 19:36, Amir Ladsgroup >
> wrote:
> >
> > > As a bot operator I think API parameter about flagging bot or not is
> > > necessary
> > >
> >
> > Sure, but as I'm not a bot operator, can you explain why and what you use
> > this for, to help me understand? :-)
> >
> >
> > > Implementing the parameter (whether the current status quo or my
> > > suggestion) in UI is important, I think adding a mark box besides minor
> and
> > > watch options would be great (for bots, admins and flooders)
> > >
> >
> > I think so too. Display it only to people with the bot flag, and their
> > edits will be tagged as bot edits iff they check the box. The API would
> be
> > unaffected, and continue to function as it did before.
> >
> > As a product manager I am wary of adding more clutter into the already
> busy
> > edit interface, but given the scope of the feature (i.e. it only displays
> > to people flagged as bots), I think it'd be okay.
>
> If it is role based ('bot'), why not change it (in 1.24?) to always *not*
> flag the UI edits as bot edits, displaying a warning to that effect?
>
> Do we have many UI scaping bot frameworks in use these days?
>
> --
> John
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
On May 20, 2014 8:39 AM, "Dan Garry" wrote:
>
> On 19 May 2014 19:36, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
>
> > As a bot operator I think API parameter about flagging bot or not is
> > necessary
> >
>
> Sure, but as I'm not a bot operator, can you explain why and what you use
> this for, to help me understand? :-)
>
>
> > Implementing the parameter (whether the current status quo or my
> > suggestion) in UI is important, I think adding a mark box besides minor
and
> > watch options would be great (for bots, admins and flooders)
> >
>
> I think so too. Display it only to people with the bot flag, and their
> edits will be tagged as bot edits iff they check the box. The API would be
> unaffected, and continue to function as it did before.
>
> As a product manager I am wary of adding more clutter into the already
busy
> edit interface, but given the scope of the feature (i.e. it only displays
> to people flagged as bots), I think it'd be okay.
If it is role based ('bot'), why not change it (in 1.24?) to always *not*
flag the UI edits as bot edits, displaying a warning to that effect?
Do we have many UI scaping bot frameworks in use these days?
--
John
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
On 19 May 2014 19:36, Amir Ladsgroup wrote: > As a bot operator I think API parameter about flagging bot or not is > necessary > Sure, but as I'm not a bot operator, can you explain why and what you use this for, to help me understand? :-) > Implementing the parameter (whether the current status quo or my > suggestion) in UI is important, I think adding a mark box besides minor and > watch options would be great (for bots, admins and flooders) > I think so too. Display it only to people with the bot flag, and their edits will be tagged as bot edits iff they check the box. The API would be unaffected, and continue to function as it did before. As a product manager I am wary of adding more clutter into the already busy edit interface, but given the scope of the feature (i.e. it only displays to people flagged as bots), I think it'd be okay. Dan -- Dan Garry Associate Product Manager for Platform and Mobile Apps Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
Admins have the ability to mark their rollbacks as bot edits? Wow, that's fascinating. Talk about edge cases. Thanks Gergő! Dan On 19 May 2014 19:51, Gergo Tisza wrote: > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Dan Garry wrote: > > > Can you help me out and tell me what those cases are? I've been editing > for > > nine years and not stumbled upon them, so I'm very curious. > > > > If you are a sysop, you can either add bot=1 to a rollback URL by hand > (unlike most other state-changing actions, rollbacks are done via GET > requests so you can do them with a single click), or go to a user's > contribution list and add bot=1 to that URL (which will in turn add it to > every rollback URL on the page). > The related userright is markbotedits. > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > -- Dan Garry Associate Product Manager for Platform and Mobile Apps Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Dan Garry wrote: > Can you help me out and tell me what those cases are? I've been editing for > nine years and not stumbled upon them, so I'm very curious. > If you are a sysop, you can either add bot=1 to a rollback URL by hand (unlike most other state-changing actions, rollbacks are done via GET requests so you can do them with a single click), or go to a user's contribution list and add bot=1 to that URL (which will in turn add it to every rollback URL on the page). The related userright is markbotedits. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
As a bot operator I think API parameter about flagging bot or not is necessary but I think the best solution would be having something like "flag=1" (optional) and this causes bot edits to be marked as human and for admin (+flooders) edits marked as bot. Implementing the parameter (whether the current status quo or my suggestion) in UI is important, I think adding a mark box besides minor and watch options would be great (for bots, admins and flooders) Best On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:59 AM, Roan Kattouw wrote: > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Dan Garry wrote: > >1. When editing via the API, allows the user to choose whether or not > to > >flag an edit as a bot edit using the bot parameter. > I'm responsible for this part of the mess. I don't remember why it was > done this way though. I think the people that I took over the API edit > code from had put this feature in and I kept it. > > What I think was going on is that no one could be bothered to figure > out how to represent "I am a human editing using a bot account and I'd > like this edit to not be bot-flagged" in the UI, so it wasn't done. > But in the API it was trivial (&bot=1), so it was done. > > That's just my recollection of it and it's probably flawed, this was > 6-7 years ago. > > Roan > > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > -- Amir ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
Sorry, I mean, can you tell me specifically how that's done? I don't know that. Thanks, Dan On 19 May 2014 19:33, Dan Garry wrote: > Can you help me out and tell me what those cases are? I've been editing > for nine years and not stumbled upon them, so I'm very curious. > > Thanks, > Dan > > > On 19 May 2014 19:13, John wrote: > >> Actually there are a few cases in the non API where bots can assert not >> being a bot, and there are some cases where non-bots can flag as bots for >> specific cases (I know it in the past it was used to suppress RC floods of >> mass vandalism reverts by admins) so your picture isnt complete >> >> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Dan Garry wrote: >> >> > Hi everyone, >> > >> > I'm trying to figure out the reason behind some decisions that were >> made in >> > the past about bot flags to see if we can have a more optimal and clear >> > setup. >> > >> > Presently, giving an account the bot flag does two things: >> > >> >1. When editing via the API, allows the user to choose whether or >> not to >> >flag an edit as a bot edit using the bot parameter. >> >2. When editing via the standard editing interface, flags all edits >> >(i.e. all human made edits) as bot edits. >> > >> > If you've not got the bot flag, the API will ignore you if you try to >> flag >> > an edit as a bot edit using the bot parameter. >> > >> > So I've got a few questions to help me figure this out. >> > >> >1. What's the user story for including the edit-level granularity for >> >bot accounts in the API? >> >2. What's the user story for making it so that every edit made by a >> >human on a bot account is flagged as bot edit? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Dan >> > >> > -- >> > Dan Garry >> > Associate Product Manager for Platform and Mobile Apps >> > Wikimedia Foundation >> > ___ >> > Wikitech-l mailing list >> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l >> ___ >> Wikitech-l mailing list >> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > -- > Dan Garry > Associate Product Manager for Platform and Mobile Apps > Wikimedia Foundation > -- Dan Garry Associate Product Manager for Platform and Mobile Apps Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
Can you help me out and tell me what those cases are? I've been editing for nine years and not stumbled upon them, so I'm very curious. Thanks, Dan On 19 May 2014 19:13, John wrote: > Actually there are a few cases in the non API where bots can assert not > being a bot, and there are some cases where non-bots can flag as bots for > specific cases (I know it in the past it was used to suppress RC floods of > mass vandalism reverts by admins) so your picture isnt complete > > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Dan Garry wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I'm trying to figure out the reason behind some decisions that were made > in > > the past about bot flags to see if we can have a more optimal and clear > > setup. > > > > Presently, giving an account the bot flag does two things: > > > >1. When editing via the API, allows the user to choose whether or not > to > >flag an edit as a bot edit using the bot parameter. > >2. When editing via the standard editing interface, flags all edits > >(i.e. all human made edits) as bot edits. > > > > If you've not got the bot flag, the API will ignore you if you try to > flag > > an edit as a bot edit using the bot parameter. > > > > So I've got a few questions to help me figure this out. > > > >1. What's the user story for including the edit-level granularity for > >bot accounts in the API? > >2. What's the user story for making it so that every edit made by a > >human on a bot account is flagged as bot edit? > > > > Thanks, > > Dan > > > > -- > > Dan Garry > > Associate Product Manager for Platform and Mobile Apps > > Wikimedia Foundation > > ___ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Dan Garry Associate Product Manager for Platform and Mobile Apps Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Dan Garry wrote: >1. When editing via the API, allows the user to choose whether or not to >flag an edit as a bot edit using the bot parameter. I'm responsible for this part of the mess. I don't remember why it was done this way though. I think the people that I took over the API edit code from had put this feature in and I kept it. What I think was going on is that no one could be bothered to figure out how to represent "I am a human editing using a bot account and I'd like this edit to not be bot-flagged" in the UI, so it wasn't done. But in the API it was trivial (&bot=1), so it was done. That's just my recollection of it and it's probably flawed, this was 6-7 years ago. Roan ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot flags and human-made edits
Actually there are a few cases in the non API where bots can assert not being a bot, and there are some cases where non-bots can flag as bots for specific cases (I know it in the past it was used to suppress RC floods of mass vandalism reverts by admins) so your picture isnt complete On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Dan Garry wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm trying to figure out the reason behind some decisions that were made in > the past about bot flags to see if we can have a more optimal and clear > setup. > > Presently, giving an account the bot flag does two things: > >1. When editing via the API, allows the user to choose whether or not to >flag an edit as a bot edit using the bot parameter. >2. When editing via the standard editing interface, flags all edits >(i.e. all human made edits) as bot edits. > > If you've not got the bot flag, the API will ignore you if you try to flag > an edit as a bot edit using the bot parameter. > > So I've got a few questions to help me figure this out. > >1. What's the user story for including the edit-level granularity for >bot accounts in the API? >2. What's the user story for making it so that every edit made by a >human on a bot account is flagged as bot edit? > > Thanks, > Dan > > -- > Dan Garry > Associate Product Manager for Platform and Mobile Apps > Wikimedia Foundation > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
