Re: [Wikitech-l] GSoC Project Update (ConventionExtension)
OK, let me try to clarify this issue a bit. I know Akshay understands the concept as we have talked about this for about a week before he even started this project but i guess he is not using the right terms for the message to come across. Basically what you're asking is Why use native MW functionality instead of custom DB objects to store data. You might not be asking this but if you would have tried to understand Akshay's concept and if you'd go trough the code and instead of looking for spacing issues took a moment to look at the logic, you'd see this is what you're asking. And here's my anwser: 1. forward compatibility (upgradability). If your code uses very narrow link to core you need to maintain that link throughout the native code upgrades. By using native concepts of storing and accessing data in the first place your code gets upgraded for you when the native code upgrades. This extension is using a lot of of such basic concepts that can't change radically in a short time without breaking a lot of other extensions out there. If we'd use DB we'd first have to make sure our DB is abstracted and then maintain compatibility when DB schema and it's abstraction evolves. We'd also have to make sure our code is able to install and upgrade using mw installer principles which would mean yet another additional task. 2. core MW functionality. This extension is in fact a way of linking individual pieces of data (in our case articles about a conference, about events, about locations, about people) into one structure, but while still keeping them what they are: an article. We are applying properties to articles that define their purpose and position in this structure and for that we're using page_props table as these are just that ... page properties. As page_props are a in a sense volatile data, as they get rebuilt every time a page gets parsed so the simplest way to achieve concurrency of these properties over page rebuilds is to make sure that they get recreated by the core itself along with other properties and this is done by using a parser tag. There is still some work to be done, to enable editors to do some inline editing of these tags by masking them and by using alternative editor hook principles. But to link back to the question at hand, my counter-question would be why reinvent core mw functionality by using custom DB objects for storing page properties? 3. cost/effect. The parser tag, besides containing parameters needed to establish the right page_props state for a given page, also has a few additional data chunks, that could possibly be put into custom db objects, however as those chunks of data are small and get used rarely and even then in most cases it is only when doing editing trough administrative dashboard, it would be prudent to ask yourself if you can excuse creating that much additional code for so little effect. I failed to see that effect being enough for the cost and that's why i suggested Akshay to not use custom DB objects just to store that. This extension is still a beta and as such needs some lovin' to get it from this hackish state to a stable release, but by my accounts the core functionality of it is sane. And as for standards ... I've mentored Akshay the same way i mentored some people locally and the same way i have mentored all of the interns i've had. I've told them to forget about standards when doing test cases and alpha work, remember they exist when doing beta and try to apply most of them when doing releases as it has proven to be a good strategy for getting fresh solutions and not just crappy copy-pasting of stale snippets to get the work done. And also, just as the code, the standards too need be updated once in a while (and that can't happen if you consider them a law at all times). You might frown upon certain things at a given moment, but in the next moment that might just become a logical solution for your problem ... so do take into an account it's flaws, be skeptical about it's validity ... just don't dismiss it too soon. And John, as i've told you (or at least tried to tell you) on IRC: before understanding why someone does things in a certain way it's impossible to say if it's good or bad (or even disgusting in your case), so please, try to understand before making conclusions. LP, Jure On 08/26/2012 08:04 PM, John Du Hart wrote: On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:40 AM, akshay chugh chughaksha...@gmail.com wrote: 6. Parser tags, Magic Words (Variables) and a parser function parser tags -- conference, page, account, registration,passport,author,submission,event,organizer and location This is a disgusting way to store data. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GSoC Project Update (ConventionExtension)
Thanks the explain in-depth about why storing configuration in articles is a good thing. Keep up the good work. On Aug 26, 2012 2:11 PM, akshay chugh chughaksha...@gmail.com wrote: -1 On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 11:34 PM, John Du Hart compwhi...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:40 AM, akshay chugh chughaksha...@gmail.com wrote: 6. Parser tags, Magic Words (Variables) and a parser function parser tags -- conference, page, account, registration,passport,author,submission,event,organizer and location This is a disgusting way to store data. -- John ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Thanks, Akshay Chugh skype- chughakshay16 irc - chughakshay16(#mediawiki) [[User:Chughakshay16]] on mediawiki.org ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GSoC Project Update (ConventionExtension)
On 12-08-27 04:10 PM, John Du Hart wrote: Thanks the explain in-depth about why storing configuration in articles is a good thing. Keep up the good work. See this is also unnecessary. Your original message might have been better stated as Hey, I love this idea, but is there a reason you decided to use articles instead of a database structure to store the data? Thanks in advance for the no doubt interesting answer. Instead, you antagonized Ashkay and didn't get an answer. And now here we are. Wasn't there a thread about conduct? Where did that end up? :) Ashkay, incidentally, I would also love to hear more about why you decided this, if you have a minute to answer! Thanks all, -- Mark Holmquist Contractor, Wikimedia Foundation mtrac...@member.fsf.org http://marktraceur.info ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GSoC Project Update (ConventionExtension)
On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:40 AM, akshay chugh chughaksha...@gmail.com wrote: 6. Parser tags, Magic Words (Variables) and a parser function parser tags -- conference, page, account, registration,passport,author,submission,event,organizer and location This is a disgusting way to store data. -- John ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GSoC Project Update (ConventionExtension)
-1 On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 11:34 PM, John Du Hart compwhi...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:40 AM, akshay chugh chughaksha...@gmail.com wrote: 6. Parser tags, Magic Words (Variables) and a parser function parser tags -- conference, page, account, registration,passport,author,submission,event,organizer and location This is a disgusting way to store data. -- John ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Thanks, Akshay Chugh skype- chughakshay16 irc - chughakshay16(#mediawiki) [[User:Chughakshay16]] on mediawiki.org ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GSoC Project Update (ConventionExtension)
On Aug 26, 2012, at 11:04 AM, John Du Hart compwhi...@gmail.com wrote: This is a disgusting way to store data. I don't think we need to talk to each other like this. --- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GSoC Project Update (ConventionExtension)
During your time in GSoC, what type of things did you mentor explain? Because i've had a quick peruse of your gerrit change sets and I know they are only minor but I do see a few things that our Coding Conventions cover as well as stylize (which is a script that is can be run) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GSoC Project Update (ConventionExtension)
Hello Peachey, Honestly I never got into reading any Coding Conventions or style guide while I was developing code for my extension, but I have been going through them for the past couple of weeks and have been fixing those style issues with my code since. Its only a matter of time before all such issues will be addressed, I am continually working on fixing them. You can go and see my latest patches where you will get a sense of all those issues being taken care into account. I have kept a todo list of all such comments which were posted in my changesets, so before my code is finally ready to be tested or even reaches a point of being presentable it will have all such elements that you are trying to point out here. On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 2:54 AM, K. Peachey p858sn...@gmail.com wrote: During your time in GSoC, what type of things did you mentor explain? Because i've had a quick peruse of your gerrit change sets and I know they are only minor but I do see a few things that our Coding Conventions cover as well as stylize (which is a script that is can be run) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Thanks, Akshay Chugh skype- chughakshay16 irc - chughakshay16(#mediawiki) [[User:Chughakshay16]] on mediawiki.org ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
