Re: wiki slightly broken still?
[to list as well] On 3 August 2010 15:07, Dimi Paun d...@lattica.com wrote: On Tue, 2010-08-03 at 14:30 +0200, Alexandru Băluț wrote: How difficult would it be to use ReCaptcha? http://www.google.com/recaptcha Hm, don't know. We could hack our version to support recaptcha, but I'm not familiar with the code base, and I don't have the time right now. But I can take patches if someone is willing to do it. The MoinMoin developers consider TextCHA inherently superior and so have no interest in writing a reCaptcha interface: http://moinmo.in/FeatureRequests/ReCaptcha (Note also the problems people have had with TextCHA: it becomes too much work to write the questions and to answer the questions.) If someone wants reCaptcha in MoinMoin, it appears they will need to write it all themselves. - d.
Re: Should we expect Liberation fonts to be installed?
On 3 August 2010 21:57, Scott Ritchie sc...@open-vote.org wrote: This bug, for instance, prevents Photoshop from working unless there is an Arial font installed: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9623 Wine doesn't seem to respect system-level fontconfig aliases, so even though Liberation Sans is installed on the system Photoshop won't try to use it in place of Arial. This is an excellent idea, except that the Liberation fonts are really horrible. I've *tried* using them for general text use and they make me want to gouge my eyes out. Is there really no reasonable way to detect the system font settings in GNOME or KDE? And where detection fails, a Wine control panel perhaps? - d.
Re: wiki slightly broken still?
On 28 July 2010 21:49, Dimi Paun d...@lattica.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 13:05 -0700, Dan Kegel wrote: Creating new wiki pages seems broken today... Yes, due to all the spam, we've hit the ext3 limit of subdirectories (32k). More here: http://www.rooftopsolutions.nl/blog/135 I'm looking into how we can clean this up. Ubuntu hit this one: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/moin/+bug/217191 http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/AllPagesSavedToSingleDirectory The other solution is permanent deletion of the spam pages from the actual file system. I've done such pruning before, and it needs (obviously) to be done with *remarkable* care. It's also very fiddly. I eventually cobbled together scripts to do the deletion for me. (At an old workplace, I don't have them to hand.) The MoinMoin page above lists maintenance scripts that can do it for you. They also suggest moving the wiki directories to a filesystem that can allow stupid amounts of directories, like XFS. (Even ext4 only scales to 64,000 directories.) MoinMoin 2.0 will apparently use a database instead of flat files. ETA: some time or other in the far future. we can't tell exactly when the new storage stuff will be production ready, but I expect end 2008 .. mid 2009. Ahem. Oh, and moinmo.in regards this as not being a bug, but the result of bad file system design. (And not, e.g., a wiki that doesn't scale.) - d.
Re: D3DXCreateTeapot
On 19 July 2010 19:54, Ian Macfarlane i...@ianmacfarlane.com wrote: Following the question as to how to implement D3DXCreateTeapot, might I suggest making it in the form of a wine glass? Given that is unlikely to negatively affect anything (indeed the entire method does border on the ridiculous) I think it would make a nice hidden touch. +1 :-D - d.
Re: Quick legal question... teapot related
On 20 July 2010 14:52, Dan McDonald d...@wellkeeper.com wrote: On 07/20/2010 06:44 AM, Misha Koshelev wrote: If I take a publicly available teaset: http://www.sjbaker.org/teapot/teaset.tgz And run it through a Microsoft function: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb205470%28v=VS.85%29.aspx D3DXTesselateRectPatch for example And then copy the vertex buffer and index buffer and save them... Do I have the rights to use the vertex and index buffers? I am assuming yes... but wanted to double check first. I would think that the output of the function does not pass the threshold of originality requirement in U.S. copyright law. We will see what the higher powers decide. It absolutely does not create a new copyright in US law. (Bridgeman v. Corel.) No machine transformation of a public domain object can create a new copyright, no matter who built the machine. I still like the wine glass idea better ;-) - d.
Re: Quick legal question... teapot related
On 20 July 2010 20:20, Avery Pennarun apenw...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 10:35 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 20 July 2010 14:52, Dan McDonald d...@wellkeeper.com wrote: On 07/20/2010 06:44 AM, Misha Koshelev wrote: If I take a publicly available teaset: http://www.sjbaker.org/teapot/teaset.tgz And run it through a Microsoft function: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb205470%28v=VS.85%29.aspx D3DXTesselateRectPatch for example And then copy the vertex buffer and index buffer and save them... Do I have the rights to use the vertex and index buffers? I would think that the output of the function does not pass the threshold of originality requirement in U.S. copyright law. We will see what the higher powers decide. It absolutely In does not create a new copyright in US law. (Bridgeman v. Corel.) No machine transformation of a public domain object can create a new copyright, no matter who built the machine. So if the original file was under an acceptable license, then the output file still will be, right? Technically, per US copyright: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgeman_Art_Library_v._Corel_Corp. That said, Alexandre might want to be more paranoid. And I still like the wine glass idea;-) - d.
Re: D3DXCreateTeapot and reverse engineering?
On 18 July 2010 21:56, Roderick Colenbrander thunderbir...@gmail.com wrote: Others have mentioned before that the only 'reverse' engineering method we allow is black box reverse engineering. Technically this is black box, but I would say that you can't use the output because of copyright reasons. In the US, a public domain dataset cannot be made copyright by a machine transformation, per Bridgeman v. Corel. Wikimedia has dealt with this one extensively - running the data through a Microsoft machine transformation absolutely does not establish a new copyright. This is established law. In other countries, it is less certain. However, approximately no-one is willing to risk their asserted copyrights trying it out. The last one Wikimedia had was the National Portrait Gallery making legal threats, and merely making the threat got them pretty much ostracised by the museum and academic community and Wikimedia are about the only people still on speaking terms with them, 'cos we love everybody and approached their foolish legal aggression as an error ;-) - d.
Re: Please remove / block user from bugzilla
On 17 July 2010 03:56, James McKenzie jjmckenzi...@earthlink.net wrote: Does this sound doable and is it permissible? I don't want folks walking away because they cannot post, but if they are posting garbage it doesn't help us. It depends also on the balance you want between (a) the possibility of a bad comment on Bugzilla (b) lots of people being unable to post their bugs. (b) will get the bug count down nicely, but rather misses the point of having a bug tracker. You are going to get noise. Stopping people reporting bugs is probably not the answer. It's hard enough to get bug reports out of people already. - d.
Re: How far to push behavioural compatibility with native?
On 8 July 2010 10:32, joerg-cyril.hoe...@t-systems.com wrote: What do you think? A) Bug compatibility = Behavioural compatibility = drop existing code and try to mimic native's behaviour as closely as possible. B) PAUSE and RESUME is a useful extension not present in native, keep it as long as no app is affected by this difference in behaviour. Bug-for-bug compatibility with an explanatory note somewhere (wiki page BrokenByDesign?) as to why. Now you have to write a test for it, of course ... Fail! Your MIDI works! - d.
FAQ on Nautilus needed?
http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#head-d3f53179ea4e0d7c90cf330e50030b1e14b63811 10.3. Nautilus can delete your home directory when you empty the trash! This affected GNOME 2.21.90-91. This is a rather old version of GNOME. Hass this problem come up in recent times? Is there any current *nix that uses GNOME 2.21.90 or 2.21.91? - d.q
FAQ just updated and copyedited
Just went through the FAQ, copyediting, tweaking and bringing things into the present: http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ?action=diffrev2=347rev1=346 Please sanity-check :-) - d.
The annoying FAQ of detecting Wine
Unfortunately, this is a FAQ, so I've added it. I based the answer on the last time this came around on wine-users; I'm not a developer, so please sanity-check what I wrote! Hopefully this will be useful in dealing with the actual problems people think they can solve by doing this. http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#head-9c045f5ff1df8a1afef91e1152ca7f6a9684f116 8.6. I write a Windows app. How can it detect if it's running under Wine? This is a bad idea. The goal of Wine is that an application will be unable to tell it's running under Wine rather than Windows. So any method to detect running under Wine is unsupported and may break without warning in the future. Wine should not be treated as a version of Windows - functionality or performance-tuning is likely to be different between any two development versions. Rather than detecting Wine: * Detect if functionality exists and use it when available. * File a bug if something works in Windows that does not work in Wine. * Ask for help on the developers' list. That said: if you really want to detect Wine, try, e.g., running a native binary or syscall (AppArmor or SELinux may block this), reading the environment, accessing a function (e.g ntdll.get_wine_version() ) or registry key only found in Wine. Any of these may break at any time. Asking the user directly if they are running the app under Wine will be more reliable than trying to automatically detect it. - d.
Re: Speed/latency issues for development in a Wine environment
On 18 June 2010 20:12, Alan W. Irwin ir...@beluga.phys.uvic.ca wrote: That would be a most interesting comparison. In computer terms 150 ms is an absolutely enormous time that allows something like 150 million (!) operations to occur on modern PC's. So I would be surprised if Microsoft Windows required that long to start up applications. Creating processes on Windows is *expensive*. Do a ./configure;make;make install natively in Cygwin for any piece of open source software and you'll be amazed how slow ./configure is to run. This is because ./configure works by making a source code file, compiling it in gcc and then running the resultant binary; this is easy on a Unix, very laborious on Windows. So I don't know, but I would be unsurprised if it's Wine doing all the stuff it has to do to pretend to be Windows. Cygwin runs under Wine. How does ./configure for a given program running on Cygwin on Wine compare to ./configure for the same program running on Cygwin on Windows on the same hardware? - d.
Re: Wine on cygwin now compiles!
On 16 June 2010 20:41, Austin English austinengl...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks to a few recent commits by AJ (and several commits over the past months by others), wine now builds on Cygwin. Not everything works, of course, but still a neat exercise in recursion. And thus the fifth seal was broken! (Sixth is someone writing a program loader for Wine on Cygwin. Seventh is Win16 working in the Cygwin build.) I suppose we can't have this in the 1.2 press release, really ;-) - d.
Fwd: Call for translators
to list as well! -- Forwarded message -- From: David Gerard dger...@gmail.com Date: 28 May 2010 21:07 Subject: Re: Call for translators To: Paul Vriens paul.vriens.w...@gmail.com 2010/5/28 Paul Vriens paul.vriens.w...@gmail.com: I totally agree (and have already talked to Francois a few times about this) that we need a nicer/better way for translators to help us out. Participate in TranslateWiki? http://translatewiki.net - started doing translations for Wikimedia projects, now does them for other people too. - d.
Re: Voting for own bugs not allowed?
On 25 May 2010 09:27, Roderick Colenbrander thunderbir...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 8:46 AM, Florian Köberle flor...@fkoeberle.de wrote: just someone informed me that I MUST NOT vote for my own bugs. Is there a reason for it? I think it is disallowed because self promotion can make an app more important while only few people may use it. So, er ... why not disable the ability to do such a thing? Rather than shouting at people and closing otherwise-valid bugs. I suppose it depends how much you need to put people off participating at all. - d.
Re: Voting for own bugs not allowed?
On 25 May 2010 14:45, Rosanne DiMesio dime...@earthlink.net wrote: It's definitely misleading to users. There are sporadic posts on the forum urging people to vote for a bug, as if it made a difference, and angry posts that bugs that have lots of votes aren't fixed yet. The one purpose I can see it serving is that a bug can be confirmed by popular vote and the status changed to new if a couple of people vote for it. That's why users shouldn't vote for their own bugs--the point is independent confirmation. So I'm all for removing the field, but if it's kept, I suggest at least changing the wording from vote to something like confirm you can reproduce this bug. This would be like the this is a problem for me too field in Launchpad, and may be useful. - d.
Re: The WineHQ About page needs a picture
On 19 May 2010 16:03, Scott Ritchie sc...@open-vote.org wrote: I was doing some housecleaning work looking at the WineHQ website, and I realized we still have an awful lot of flat, wide text on the About page. This is the perfect place to collapse it into a column and fill the right side of the screen with an image. But...what image? winecfg screenshot, About tab? - d.
Re: on most hated OS in the history of computing
On 29 March 2010 10:14, Saulius Krasuckas sauli...@ar.fi.lt wrote: * On Sun, 28 Mar 2010, Damjan Jovanovic wrote: Out of interest, why were you visiting openwatcom.org? Are you also looking into Win16 tests for Wine? Kind of. I was looking into licensing problems preventing its inclusion in Debian. Seems like I should try starting negotiation between OWC folks and Debian-legal experts on slight license changes. The problem is that the OpenWatcom licence is so unremittingly awful that debian-legal went ahahaha, you must be joking and quickly dismissed it. It obviously fails the DFSG in a ridiculous number of ways. Heck, reading it myself I'm reluctant to even *run* the software. I'm boggling that the OSI accepted it, given the OSI rules are based on the Debian rules. I did email licens...@fsf, who said they may try to negotiate with Sybase over getting it to actually being a free software licence. Because it would be an obviously good thing for a good DOS/Win16 compiler to be free software. I don't know if anyone at FSF has managed to do anything about this, though a legacy environment such as this is likely not the highest of priorities for a tiny charity of minimal resources. - d.
Re: on most hated OS in the history of computing
On 29 March 2010 10:37, Damjan Jovanovic damjan@gmail.com wrote: Why should Debian politics be a barrier to its adoption by Wine? It's not that, it's what the actual licence text says: http://opensource.org./licenses/sybase.php Read what you give away just by using the software ... - d.
Re: Is there something we can do about Java?
On 10 March 2010 02:31, James McKenzie jjmckenzi...@earthlink.net wrote: Ben Klein wrote: I won't tell you about the Java (esp swing) apps I've seen that hit NPE on *nix but work fine on Windows ... Bingo. Good code does not make assumptions, but checks for presence and gives an appropriate error when whatever is not found. We are of course talking about programming on Windows ... The question is not is it broken? The question is are there real apps that work on Windows, for whatever value of 'works,' that don't work in Wine? i.e. the apps that fail stupidly in Wine without Java, what do they actually do on Windows without Java? - d.
Re: Intercepting GDI calls
On 18 February 2010 22:08, Steven Edwards winehac...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Ove Kaaven o...@arcticnet.no wrote: Sure it might be confusing, because that's not how the logic goes in the Microsoft world. Over there, the big machine acting as Terminal Server thing is the server, and the Remote Desktop client, which provides the actual display, is the client... while on X11, it's the complete opposite. I'm not going to pretend that it couldn't be confusing. The whole X11 client/server discussion was touched on in the Unix Haters Handbook chapter on X11. I think that reference proves the merit of the argument. http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/X_Window_System ;-) - d.
Re: Adding wikipedia links to appdb?
2010/2/16 Dan Kegel d...@kegel.com: I have a prototype of how this (and other) info might be used at http://wiki.winehq.org/GameChecklist I think this kind of dashboard would be quite handy. Are there other game-specific encyclopedias that might be useful, for those games not notorious to make Wikipedia? (Noting as I have that WP includes on notability, roughly third-party attention, rather than actual quality.) e.g. Is there any site that tries to cover *everything*? - d.
Re: Intercepting GDI calls
On 12 February 2010 06:11, Jui-Hao Chiang windtracek...@gmail.com wrote: I am currently starting a project which tries to run a window application on one (source) machine, and display on another (destination) machine. Of course, the VNC or X11 forwarding technique can achieve the same goal, but I am trying to reduce the bandwidth by not transferring the video frame buffer but transfer the GDI function calls instead. The way I can see is try to intercept all the calls inside gdi32.dll, and forward the calls and parameters to remote machine by using some RPC library, and then replay the GDI calls on the destination machine. Sounds like you're actually trying to reproduce Citrix or Tarantella. (Which do rather better than X11 in many ways.) Not that I have useful advice on doing so ... - d.
Re: Adding wikipedia links to appdb?
[to list as well, *cough*] On 11 February 2010 11:35, Rosanne DiMesio dime...@earthlink.net wrote: On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:38:56 -0800 Dan Kegel d...@kegel.com wrote: I often want to learn more about an app while I'm in the appdb, and particularly, I want to know whether it has a good reputation. Wikipedia can often tell me what I need to know. It might be handy to have a wikipedia url field in the appdb, and an option in Browse Apps that says only show apps with wikipedia links. What do folks think about the idea? I think the AppDB is for information about how well an app works in Wine, not the merits of the app itself. Having an entry in Wikipedia has more to do with Wikipedia's notions of notability than any actual merits of the app. A quite horrible app could have a Wikipedia entry if its horribleness is famous enough ;-) However, a Wikipedia link field may be a useful thing to have. - d.
Re: Building list of great demos for Wine
On 11 February 2010 22:46, Austin English austinengl...@gmail.com wrote: By demo I think Dan means applications/games that would make for a good demonstration of wine's capabilities/success, for example, to show at a LUG meeting/computer conference/etc. I just added Exact Audio Copy to the list - it's downloadable, even though the downloadable flag isn't ticked in AppDB. So perhaps don't use this as a search criterion, just check if it is ;-) - d.
Re: Understanding 64bit implications and wine64
On 9 February 2010 18:16, David Laight da...@l8s.co.uk wrote: A 32bit (i386) windows application binary can only run in a 32bit Unix application [1]. In which case the Unix kernel will handle the system call emulation and ensure that the only user-space virtual addresses the application sees are 32bit (it may be able to give the app almost 4G of user address space - instead of the usual 3G). So the Wine on my 64-bit Ubuntu (which works perfectly well) is actually a 32-bit app? I didn't know that! - d.
Re: idea: display drivers
On 7 February 2010 15:40, Reece Dunn mscl...@googlemail.com wrote: 1/ Does this mean that OpenGL is required for all GDI calls, not just D3D? If so, it will exclude people who don't have OpenGL support (e.g. are using the vesa, nv, or nouveau drivers). As I understand it, current Xorg does OpenGL in software on any video chipset it supports ... eeerrryyy ssslllooowwwlllyyy, but it does it. - d.
Re: idea: display drivers
On 7 February 2010 20:23, Gert van den Berg wine-de...@mohag.net wrote: On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 21:40, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: As I understand it, current Xorg does OpenGL in software on any video chipset it supports ... eeerrryyy ssslllooowwwlllyyy, but it does it. But what about other X servers, such as Xsun, Xvnc, remote Xming sessions, etc? No idea, sorry. Xsun is on extended (life-)support with Sun moving to Xorg (and Alan Coopersmith from Sun being one of the main Xorg developers). Xming is Xorg compiled for mingw. Xvnc, no idea. - d.
Fwd: The (Casual) Game Support Report in Wine (Jan 2009)
whoops, sending to list as well! -- Forwarded message -- From: David Gerard dger...@gmail.com Date: 2010/1/6 Subject: Re: The (Casual) Game Support Report in Wine (Jan 2009) To: Reece Dunn mscl...@googlemail.com 2010/1/5 Reece Dunn mscl...@googlemail.com: 2/ the major issues appear to be in the application launchers used by different game providers (most of which are in the current wine implementation of the IE browser ActiveX control); Curious question: you tested with IE6, how do things work if you install IE7? Any better? (I installed IE7 with winetricks to see if I could get the ActiveX control for our work VPN going. It didn't work, and I didn't expect it to - it uses ActiveX to completely take over and try to secure a Windows installation, and I think it just recoiled in horror when it found itself in Wine on Linux - but I routinely use it now to check website rendering. It's really horrible. But useful.) - d.
Re: Another article that makes me want Wine to run in a sandbox
2009/11/8 Dan Kegel d...@kegel.com: I expect that people will do utterly stupid things, there's no two ways around that, it's human nature. That being the case, I think there are still opportunities for providing a safe computing experience without compromising the user's convenience. Case in point: the sandbox used by the Chromium web browser. It provides a modicum of security without getting in the way. I can easily imagine classes of windows apps, say, games, fitting nicely into a sandboxed wine environment. Sure, getting the networking right would be a challenge, but for at least casual games, it ought to be quite doable. The key is to require no user choices -- just do the right thing by default. Then the user's level of education or computer skills don't matter. You'd get good sandboxing running Wine apps as another user. Main problem then is integration with the user's desktop. Doable, but a nuisance. - d.
Re: Another article that makes me want Wine to run in a sandbox
2009/11/8 Dan Kegel d...@kegel.com: On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 3:25 AM, Ben Klein shackl...@gmail.com wrote: I believe the type of sandboxing being discussed includes things like preventing Win32 apps from breaking out into native calls using the infamous interrupt trick. Correct me if I'm wrong though :) No, I was thinking of native sandboxing, so even if they did manage to make native calls, they couldn't do any harm. Running as another uid is a fine example of a native sandboxing technique. (So, on a single user system, you could have a uid dedicated to running sandboxed apps, and it would be unable to affect the regular user's data.) This would only be useful for apps that don't need to load or save user data (probably), for example, for casual games. Yes, Unix comes with pretty good sandboxing built-in in the form of separate user names. Then one could explicity open communication channels between the Unix environment and the Wine user, rather than trying to close off open-everything. Fairly obviously, it'll take some pretty substantial real-world need for this to get anywhere near the winehq tree! But it's an interesting idea. Imagine, successfully securiing Win32 ... - d.
Re: DirectX 10 status, do simple programs work yet?
2009/10/26 Henri Verbeet hverb...@gmail.com: 2009/10/26 Warren Dumortier nwarre...@gmail.com: So i would like to know if there's already something running concerning DirectX 10? Like making very basic applications? The fact i would like to know that is because i'm curious what has alread been done! ;) *Very* basic stuff like rendering triangles and running trivial shaders works. Most of the work so far has gone into adding basic stubs for interfaces and parsing d3d10 effects and shaders. The original planning was that most of that would have been done as a GSoC project in 2007, but unfortunately that didn't quite work out the way we hoped. BTW, is there a list anywhere of target applications that use D3D 10 and don't have D3D 9 fallback? - d.
Re: Another virus-in-wine story
2009/10/25 Nicholas LaRoche nlaro...@vt.edu: From a usability standpoint, adding switches to wine for sandboxing is a good thing. But it seems to only cover the APIs exported by wine. A specially crafted win32 wine-aware malware app could leverage sys_open(1) and sys_write(4) via int 80h to bypass this isolation and install itself anywhere in the users home directory. e.g. this malware could open ~/.bashrc and install linux specific malware that executes the next time you open a shell. Yes. It would be exceedingly foolish to claim to offer security that cannot be delivered. (I'd sugest big warnings. WARNING: any Windows app can do anything on your system that the user it is running as can do. If you want to study malware, use WineZero or similar.) Perhaps the app-specific package that you mentioned can be shipped with an AppArmor/SELinux profile that prohibits syscalls from originating anywhere in user code. (Assuming that the other sandboxing changes are made to wine). This would need some really serious testing before making such a promise, of course. i.e., will Wine itself still work? - d.
Re: Multiple wineservers?
2009/10/7 Nicholas LaRoche nlaro...@vt.edu: Is it possible to run more than 1 version of wineserver concurrently? You can run more than one instance from a given version of Wine - set the WINEPREFIX accordingly. (CrossOver has good support for this, calling it bottles.). WINEPREFIX=/home/user/.wine2 wine application.exe I suppose you could run different versions of Wine if you needed to by a similar process, e.g. WINEPREFIX=/home/user/.wine101 /usr/bin/wine app1.exe WINEPREFIX=/home/user/.wine1130 ~/wine/wine app2.exe - though I haven't tried it myself. Remember that there is no security as such between different WINEPREFIXes - any binary running with Wine can do anything that Unix user can do - but it does help keep things from inadvertently stomping all over each other. - d. - d.
Re: winehq: Fix some HTML markup
2009/9/10 Jeremy Newman jnew...@codeweavers.com: The reason I left the XHTML markup in was eventually the goal was to convert the entire website to XHTML. The only issue with leaving them in while still in HTML4/Transitional is that the pages do not pass W3C validation. I am still willing to live with non-valid working HTML to save some work down the road. XHTML is officially no longer developed - the future is HTML5, apparently. - d.
Re: Mirror Space
2009/9/2 Scott Ritchie sc...@open-vote.org: I don't think it's worth bothering to set that up, as my medium term plan is to migrate users to a real Launchpad PPA for Ubuntu 9.10. In 9.10, it'll actually be much easier to add PPAs (and their unique key), so I can cut the instructions on the download page dramatically. Launchpad has that sophisticated mirroring infrastructure already. Oh yes,that's the obvious answer :-) I assume you'll still be putting Debian builds on wine.budgetdedicated.com? (Or can Debian feed from an Ubuntu PPA as well?) - d.
Re: Wine to be used as botnet testbed
2009/7/29 Maik Schulz ladenlokalvelb...@gmail.com: More in the linked New York Times article, Sandia National Labs plans to have a Dell super computer run 1 million Linux instances using Wine to host and study a botnet: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/science/28comp.html?_r=1 Does someone on the list have more detailed information on or is even involved with it? How about we post about this on winehq.org as well? Would be a departure from posing only about new releases and WWN issues, but it could make winehq.org more interesting for users... I'd volunteer... Now we wait till malware starts detecting Wine, and we can file bugs saying that the malware is not sufficiently suported in Wine because it behaves differently to how it does Windows ;-p - d.
Re: [Wine] Sandia Studies Botnets In 1M OS Digital Petri Dish
2009/7/29 Austin English austinengl...@gmail.com: Nothing to stop them from donating to the Wine Development fund, or contributing back any fixes they write. Indeed, I'd be surprised if there weren't any. Anyone got in touch with them to ask? I'd also be surprised if botnet code didn't soon start detecting Wine ... - d.
Re: Cleaning up the winehq.org website
Rosanne DiMesio wrote: You should also take a look at the Debunking Wine Myths page, particularly Myth 6. Touting Office XP as an example of a fairly new application that works in Wine does not inspire confidence. Sounds like that should be moved to the wiki. Documents probably belong on the wiki, in general. - d.
Re: why is Kronenberg's Wine/Mac work blacklisted on winehq?
2009/6/27 Austin English austinengl...@gmail.com: On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Roderick Colenbranderthunderbir...@gmail.com wrote: If they ship hacks like the DIB engine then we won't accept bug reports for it as it a real big hack and shouldn't be linked to from our website. Tweaking themes or icons is fine. Actually we just need to refine our .msstyles support and then icon can just be part of a theme like they are on Windows. I wouldn't call the DIB engine a hack. A large piece of code not accepted into official WineHQ, sure. Even the author considers it a *bit* of one :-) - d.
Re: Which virtualization software should I choose
2009/6/12 Kai Blin kai.b...@gmail.com: On Thursday 11 June 2009 14:58:14 David Gerard wrote: VMWare is reputedly better - it's the oldest common VM software and its emulation is very seasoned, well-tested and robust. If you discount that last I checked, VMware still couldn't do IPv6 in their virtual networks, and every single kernel upgrade your distro does is a pain. There's always something, I guess. It's closed-source software for stable enterprise environments; people like us are as the buzzing of flies to such elevated beings. The quality of the VM is superb though. - d.
Re: Which virtualization software should I choose
2009/6/11 Michael Stefaniuc mstef...@redhat.com: Paul Vriens wrote: I need to run several Windows versions (95 up to Vista for now) for our winetest and I really like the snapshot possibilities of VMware. Suggestions, recommendations? I'm using KVM/Qemu with libvirt aka virt-manager. I have problems with WinNT and NetBSD; those hang/crash during the install. Win2k3, FreeBSD and OpenSolaris work just fine and I didn't try anything else yet. But I'm on F9 and once I have a little spare time I'll move to F11. I'll test it there (never qemu) if that fixes WinNT. Since you're asking on the Wine list ... VirtualBox does okay for Windows and Linux, barely for FreeBSD with lots of caveats and not really for anything else. Notably, OpenBSD doesn't work and the VirtualBox developers admit it but consider the bug beneath their attention. It's really not a very well-written virtualisation app. VMWare is reputedly better - it's the oldest common VM software and its emulation is very seasoned, well-tested and robust. QEMU *without* KVM works well, if slowly - it's almost a complete red pill for the guest OS. With KVM, OpenBSD is known not to work entirely properly. (OpenBSD is a bit of a torture test for virtual machines. It's very wary and cautious about what it runs on, and will happily segfault at a perceived hardware problem rather than risk letting a program access memory it shouldn't. Theo de Raadt says about a third of all problem traces come from VMs.) For testing Wine in other OSes, bugs found in a VM should always, always be confirmed on a physical machine, with the OS running on the bare metal - there are too many glitches in the Matrix in almost any VM software to be sure a bug is real. - d.
Re: Which virtualization software should I choose
2009/6/11 Paul Vriens paul.vriens.w...@gmail.com: The problem with both VirtualBox and QEMU/KVM seems to be supporting older Windows versions as guests ( NT4). Yeah. Try QEMU without KVM on a very fast host machine, your ancient Windows should run just as well as it would on a 486 ;-) - d.
Re: Which virtualization software should I choose
2009/6/11 Austin English austinengl...@gmail.com: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 7:58 AM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: VirtualBox does okay for Windows and Linux, barely for FreeBSD with lots of caveats and not really for anything else. Notably, OpenBSD doesn't work and the VirtualBox developers admit it but consider the bug beneath their attention. It's really not a very well-written virtualisation app. Virtualbox works great for OpenSolaris as well. *cough* Yes, I expect it would :-) (explanation: Sun owns VirtualBox, you can be very sure their own OS runs like a charm!) - d.
Re: How is 0.0.0.0 handled in Wine?
2009/6/9 Ben Klein shackl...@gmail.com: Only case that I can think of where 0.0.0.0 handling will break apps is in lazy network programming. I am shocked, shocked to hear that there might be apps with lazy network programming! ;-p On Windows, this would likely cause a catchable error. On Linux (at least), the socket connection may succeed. I think someone said CC3 is affected by this inconsistency between Linux and Windows INADDR_ANY handling; this is probably why :P Until someone demonstrates a real need for this (with appropriate test cases) ... Apart from the test cases, didn't you just name a real app that needs this? - d.
Re: Test box tagged [dr-asus]
2009/6/7 Francois Gouget fgou...@free.fr: Winetest should have an email field (optional) to make contacting the tester easier. That and also a description field (bug 13027) so one can give a proper description of the setup the tests are running on (e.g. locale, running in vmware or not, etc). +1 I'd expect most people running the tests would be happy to give more detail as needed, as that would help Wine run better on their stuff! - d.
Re: DIB engine
2009/5/30 Dan Kegel d...@kegel.com: If you're looking for something better specified, try finishing off gdiplus. That's a somewhat well defined graphics package, and Wine's implementation has a few missing bits yet, last I checked. OH YES PLEASE. (lots of apps missing bits of this - check over bugzilla and everything in it that's been stubbed) - d.
Re: [Article] WINE and the importance of application compatibility
2009/5/18 Brian Vincent brian.vinc...@gmail.com: Which leads me to my $.02: I wonder if there's a sweet spot for Wine adoption somewhere in the middle-tier of the software application popularity contest. For instance, rather than going after Photoshop or Photoshop Elements (which is still a noble goal), what about approaching Paintshop Pro about their Photo x2 product. Or, what about approaching the ISV that created Home Depot's freeware CD for laying out your home design? Specifically, I think there's a lot of proprietary applications without a good alternative (think more of the Home Depot or Sysco's Rio, etc ). I think there's $$$ to be made for someone who can QA apps with Wine, fix minor issues, package Wine alongside the app, and finally deliver the product to an ISV. I don't think this is something the Wine community itself would be interested in, but I suspect there's someone in the Wine community who's capable of pulling it off. I think there's a lot of angles to the idea that could work. 1. Find apps that work pretty much perfectly in Wine. 2. Ask them to declare Wine officially supported. 3. Add them to http://wiki.winehq.org/AppsThatSupportWine 4. Use 3. to add more to 2. - d.
Re: Shuttleworth on Wine
2009/5/7 Austin English austinengl...@gmail.com: Though, I must say, the majority of people I see/hear using Photoshop *are* using it as a toy/hobby, not for 'real' work, i.e., a full time job. Yes. The biggest problem for free-as-in-freedom software - Linux and GIMP, and to some extent Wine - is that Windows and Photoshop are effectively free-as-in-beer software ... http://autotelic.com/windows_is_free - d.
Re: Wine on Solaris 10 and SXCE
2009/5/6 Vit Hrachovy vit.hrach...@sandbox.cz: *rumour* IMO one of technical barriers preventing Wine in /release repo could be that Wine doesn't compile with SunStudio compiler, only with gcc. *eof rumour* Obviously that sort of thing consititutes a set of bugs that should be reported and/or fixed by those it affects ;-) (Wine's cross-platform abilities are presently dismal. But there are people working on fixing this.) - d.
Re: Article on wine development strategy
2009/4/18 Scott Ritchie sc...@open-vote.org: Thank you Dan, you reminded me to forward my blog post to the list ;) I'm not sure how to put this into your simulation as described, but there's another effect that's important: the good-enough-to-be-beta effect. I'd say there was a significant upturn in Wine's quality around 0.9. That's where Wine crossed from being an interesting idea into something good enough to actually use - where it was good enough for actual users, so more users meant more bug reports. Yay bug reports! I got a similar feeling around Mozilla 0.9 - where this fat, lumbering, bug-riddled, crash-prone browser that was nevertheless very important crossed some line and ... was more usable than not. I believe it was the stability push between 0.8.1 and 0.9 that did that. Another important comment on your post links to an idea Wine needs: crash reporting. Just like Windows does. https://winqual.microsoft.com/help/About_Windows_Error_Reporting_for_Hardware.htm http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001239.html Note that the latter post advocates this for the Wine development model of fixing bugs as they're a problem: Although I remain a fan of test driven development, the speculative nature of the time investment is one problem I've always had with it. If you fix a bug that no actual user will ever encounter, what have you actually fixed? While there are many other valid reasons to practice TDD, as a pure bug fixing mechanism it's always seemed far too much like premature optimization for my tastes. I'd much rather spend my time fixing bugs that are problems in practice rather than theory. I wonder how much work crash reporting would be to add to Wine. The importance of automatic reporting, of course, is that if you rely on your users to complain actively then you've already lost. - d. - d.
Re: Icons, logos, Tango, consistency, the user experience, and our project looks like a 2D champaign flute
2009/4/17 Scott Ritchie sc...@open-vote.org: http://yokozar.org/blog/content/icons/wine.svg Oh, that's nice! Pity it's not tilted - I think of the Wine logo as being tilted. I assume there's something in the Tango guidelines against that? - d.
Re: NTFS filesystem features - WONTFIX?
2009/4/16 Francois Gouget fgou...@free.fr: On Mon, 6 Apr 2009, Ben Klein wrote: But his bug raises an interesting issue. If an application has sanity checks on FAT32 vs NTFS (e.g., I need a 4GB file ... I've detected no NTFS therefore it's FAT32 which doesn't support more than 2GB files), Then the application is buggy: NTFS is not the only filesystem that supports 2GB files on Windows. Even if they are not very common, there are at leastt two drivers to use Ext2 filesystems on Windows (Ext2Fsd, Ext2 IFS), both of which support 2GB files. Besides if Microsoft ever changes the filesystem again, it will most certainly support 2GB files and the application will get it wrong again. Usage of file systems other than FAT32 or NTFS on Windows is somewhere below negligible. (Unless USB sticks really do go UDF to avoid a FAT tax, or something.) So apps doing this may theoretically be sloppy programming, but in practice they'd pretty much always get the right answer on Windows. - d.
Re: do ERR messages imply bugs?
2009/4/12 James McKenzie jjmckenzi...@earthlink.net: Bugzilla should request an application name and AppDB entry number. Demanding an appID number will certainly keep the bug reports down, though at the expense of bug reporting. I can't see making bug reports arbitrarily more difficult as a good way for devs to get an idea of what's broken. - d.
Re: do ERR messages imply bugs?
2009/4/12 James McKenzie jjmckenzi...@earthlink.net: I understand your concern. I like bug reports, I just don't like bug reports in a vacuum. If we can get some of the functionality of an automatic Bugzilla to Applications Database linker in place this would make it much easier to avoid (not prevent) duplicate reports and for bug reports to have application entries and the other way round. I really would like to see a bug report for each garbage entry in the Applications Database with associated terminal output and such. This might give developers a push to fix a problem or implement code based upon the number of related problem reports and affected programs. For example, if only three people report the same bug on the same program would it make more sense to work on a problem that has fifty reports/votes and it affects a dozen programs. Of course, implementing the linker may be a project in itself. I suspect single user login for the various Wine websites is a similar problem to arrange. And would facilitate such an appdb-bugzilla linkage helping things along rather than being another barrier. The problem is really the various sites having been built as five or six compeltely separate things rather than one in the first place. - d.
Re: User forum thread: how can we improve WINE?
2009/4/5 Warren Dumortier nwarre...@gmail.com: Here's what i set as message in the configuration window in my patch: Only change these settings if you know what you're doing. Changing these values may result in unexpected behaviors and unstability. Also include a revert to default button? May be worth seeing how or if this fits in with AJ's vision for Wine, i.e. if it'd ever go in under any circumstances ... - d.
User forum thread: how can we improve WINE?
http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?t=4403 Some highly impractical ideas, but certainly having the users throw ideas around should inspire wine-devel (and Codeweavers) :-) - d.
Re: Windows 7
2009/4/3 Austin English austinengl...@gmail.com: On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Stefan Dösinger stefandoesin...@gmx.at wrote: Am Donnerstag, 2. April 2009 13:07:18 schrieb Fred .: Yeah, I know. It is on the way though. It will be released. So I would like to be able to choose Windows 7. Feel free to send a patch ;-) I'm not sure what the dwbuildnumber should be, I can't find that information anywhere...Anywho, this should work. Austin and I were trying to work it out last night from the Win 7 beta :-) Is there any software on Earth that looks specifically for Windows 7 as yet? - d.
Fwd: How to bottle applications for distribution with wine?
to list as well -- Forwarded message -- From: David Gerard dger...@gmail.com Date: 2009/3/29 Subject: Re: How to bottle applications for distribution with wine? To: Ben Klein shackl...@gmail.com 2009/3/29 Ben Klein shackl...@gmail.com: He's asking if it's possible to bundle a minimal Wine with some native app (e.g. EVE Linux version which was EVE for Windows with Cedega, and the same basic principle for the Linux version of the Sims shipped with some Mandrakes). The only thing I can think of is to calculate the maximum set of required DLLs for the application, and only ship those, but it's probably not worth it. It's better in general to use a system-wide Wine, due to the general-purpose nature of Wine. Mm. Look at Picasa for Linux, which really does package pretty much a whole Wine with the app. (I just run the Windows version in my system Wine ;-) ) So it won't be smaller, but it will be a single package. Are there notes anywhere on how Picasa packages Wine? - d.
Re: 16bit code generation
2009/3/28 Austin English austinengl...@gmail.com: On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 5:34 PM, King InuYasha ngomp...@gmail.com wrote: What is wrong with OpenWatcom? It is an open source development toolchain, with experimental linux binaries, yes, but they do work the last time I checked (which was when 1.8 release came out). It's not widely available, it's license is not open enough for many distros (ArchLinux has it available, and there's an initial Gentoo ebuild according to their wiki), but Fedora/Suse/Ubuntu don't have it available. It fails DFSG (so I'm surprised it passed OSI, given OSI is based on DFSG), with many important concerns raised: http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-le...@lists.debian.org/msg34684.html I emailed licens...@fsf.org to ask about it (since it isn't on their list of licenses) and got back a quick reply saying an official determination wasn't likely any time in the foreseeable future, but it's definitely not GPL compatible and they couldn't actually tell at a glance if it was FSF free or not. - d.
iphlpapi patch - what does it need?
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14574 has a patch for iphlpapi that stubs GetAdaptersAddresses(). Just this stub is enough to get Safari 4 working. Patch is: http://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=19704 http://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=19705 Do these need anything done before they're fit to go in? (These are not my patches - I'd just like Safari 4 working.) - d.
Single login for Wine sites?
What's standing in the way of unified login for the various Wine sites (appdb, wiki, Bugzilla)? Is there anyone running any of these sites who doesn't consider single unified login a good idea? - d.
Re: Single login for Wine sites?
2009/3/22 Austin English austinengl...@gmail.com: On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 9:18 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: What's standing in the way of unified login for the various Wine sites (appdb, wiki, Bugzilla)? Someone to do the work to combine the logins and implement the infrastructure. Cool, so the only problem is to do the work then :-) (Apologies to all for the somewhat frustrated tone of my message.) Is there anyone running any of these sites who doesn't consider single unified login a good idea? AppDB/Bugzilla/Forums are all hosted by WineHQ (sponsored by Codeweavers). The Wiki is run/sponsored by Lattica (Dimi Paun). Cross-site authentication could be more than a little interesting ... - d.
Re: How to enable font anti-aliasing in Wine?
2009/3/15 Roderick Colenbrander thunderbir...@gmx.net: What is so special about Wine why anti-aliasing isn't working for most users? (it could be a regression) In Stefan his case it started working after installing a Windows tahoma.ttf. What is so special about this font? A modern Linux system has dozens or hundreds of fonts installed and both GNOME/KDE can use each font AA'ed without issues. I recently reinstalled this system with Ubuntu 8.10 and its inbuilt Wine 1.0.1. I then added the budgededicated.com repo to get the fortnightly snapshots. A string of registry changes enabled smoothed fonts for me: http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?p=20061sid=6fbbcf362e44a66b310ef88f631c83f5 However, it's deeply problematic that I had to do this at all instead of it Just Working when Wine was updated. This is just broken. - d.
Re: wine web pages update
2009/3/15 Ben Klein shackl...@gmail.com: 2009/3/16 Vít Hrachový vit.hrach...@sandbox.cz: Apostolos Syropoulos wrote: For example, the first page says Run Windows Applications on Linux, BSD and MacOS. OK Solaris is a commercial product but so is MacOS! Since I do release binary packages of wine for both Solaris and OpenSolaris at http://ww.sunfreepacks.com could you include this info in the download section. Also, could you please say something like Run Windows Application on most Unix and Unix-like systems. This shows impartiality and is far more friendly. Didn't someone suggest this change when then new website design was being discussed? I believe I showed support for it too ... But now we're being accused of bias against Solaris? What about HP-UX, AIX, NetBSD, OpenBSD etc.? :P It's *intended* to run on anything Unix or Unix-like, but in practice, development was Linux-centric for long enough that everything else is in practice a second-class platform, and implying otherwise would be misleading. I understand the actively supported platforms where stuff can be expected mostly to work (Linux, Mac OS X, FreeBSD, Solaris) are already listed. AIUI, Wine isn't actually working properly at present on OpenBSD and NetBSD. (Heck, I'm fiddling with getting it compiling on Windows ... but I'm not demanding that be listed to be fair.) - d.
Re: Disabling File attachments on Wiki
2009/3/12 Dmitry Timoshkov dmi...@codeweavers.com: Spammers do contribute a lot lately to the Wine wiki, that's why this thread has appeared in the first place. What are the numbers? Any action should be based on evidence. If a user has found a typo, probably he/she is aware of bugzilla or irc. Or you could just require all wiki updates to be done by an approved patch to a git tree. This fundamentally misses the point of having a wiki rather than a static page. - d.
Re: Disabling File attachments on Wiki
2009/3/13 Dimi Paun d...@lattica.com: On Sat, 2009-03-14 at 01:59 +1100, Ben Klein wrote: Of course, complicated captchas don't keep out manually created spam accounts, only bots. And I'll like to see some data that shows that we have a significant portion of the spammers are bots before we even start thinking of captchas. Yes. This thread is long on anecdote and short on quantified evidence. - d.
Re: Disabling File attachments on Wiki
2009/3/13 Dmitry Timoshkov dmi...@codeweavers.com: http://wiki.winehq.org/RecentChanges has all the details. Please consider at least removing the spammers' accounts listed there, or give a way to do that for us poor people who regularly brushes spam out of the Wine wiki. Yes, the usual remedy in this situation would be to make it possible for more individuals to deal with the problems rather than to make the wiki not a wiki. - d.
Re: Disabling File attachments on Wiki
2009/3/13 Dimi Paun d...@lattica.com: On Sat, 2009-03-14 at 00:59 +0800, Dmitry Timoshkov wrote: or give a way to do that for us poor people who regularly brushes spam out of the Wine wiki. I have no problem with that if if can be done. Can someone look it up what would it take to make Moin do that? A first glance at moinmo.in shows: http://moinmo.in/AntiSpamFeatures http://moinmo.in/DespamAction Is despam.py any use? - d.
Re: Disabling File attachments on Wiki
2009/3/13 John Klehm xixsimplicity...@gmail.com: http://master.moinmo.in/HelpOnUserHandling Section Disable a user account The account is still there but can't post which would probably be good enough till dimi comes to zap it. Seems there is no way to delete a user account from the web gui without a custom patch. You need to be a SuperUser to have that power, not a mere Admin. Does that carry too many extra abilities with it? Because the ideal way to deal with more malicious users without hampering the good users is to give community members the power to do the work, so it doesn't fall to just Dimi. (I'm highly familiar with this stuff on MediaWiki, so am trying to map concepts from one onto the other, which is probably not a useful approach.) - d.
Re: Disabling File attachments on Wiki
2009/3/13 John Klehm xixsimplicity...@gmail.com: On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 2:24 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: Because the ideal way to deal with more malicious users without hampering the good users is to give community members the power to do the work, so it doesn't fall to just Dimi. I'd agree, but there doesn't seem to be a way to delete users from the web interface. Disabling them could be our best bet without some custom coding. Disabling will do. I'm not familiar enough with Moin SuperUser powers to say what impact parceling them out to a few people would have. If Dimi's running an Internet-facing Moin wiki, he should be asking on a list how to distribute his workload to valiant and foolhardy volunteers with too much time on their hands ;-) - d.
Re: Disabling File attachments on Wiki
2009/3/12 Dmitry Timoshkov dmi...@codeweavers.com: Another thing that would probably help to get rid of spammers' accounts is to (regularly) delete all user accounts without a personal page. Evidence-based actions would probably be a good idea. What are the actual numbers? - d.
Re: Wiki challenge question on user account creation
2009/3/5 King InuYasha ngomp...@gmail.com: A wiki shouldn't have users creating accounts every day, that is a bad indicator. It is difficult to understand the thinking behind such a statement unless you are literally aiming to close a project to outside participation. - d.
Re: Wiki challenge question on user account creation
2009/3/11 King InuYasha ngomp...@gmail.com: Why are we using Moin anyways? I know Fedora used to use Moin and they moved off of it for their wiki, and I honestly think that perhaps WineHQ needs to as well. As someone who's done the Moin-MediaWiki thing, I heartily disrecommend it if avoidable: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MoinMoin - d.
Re: Wiki challenge question on user account creation
2009/3/11 Ben Klein shackl...@gmail.com: Does what we have now work? Yes. Is there any reason why we should consider moving from Moin to some other Wiki system? Your turn to answer. At work, I use a ridiculous range of wiki engines. I've used Moin and MediaWiki most heavily. Reasons for picking Moin are typically: * it'll do * it's not PHP * it doesn't use a database. Reasons for picking MediaWiki are typically: * it'll do * people know how to use Wikipedia. I did a move at work from Moin to MediaWiki, on the intranet wiki ten of us use all day every day. Our reason was that our Moin wiki was just somehow not as usable as we wanted from a wiki, so we gave MediaWiki a go and it was good enough to bother moving engines. Also, the Moin wiki was full of outdated rubbish, so this was a handy excuse to start over. It's not clear that any of those reasons apply here. Moving wiki engines is a *pain in the backside* and it's not something you do unless you have to. Number of new users is not necessarily proportional to number of new spammers. Do we actually have a problem with spam on the Wiki? If there is, I'll hereby put my hand up to help. - d.
Fwd: Disabling File attachments on Wiki
to list as well -- Forwarded message -- From: David Gerard dger...@gmail.com Date: 2009/3/11 Subject: Re: Disabling File attachments on Wiki To: Dimi Paun d...@lattica.com 2009/3/11 Dimi Paun d...@lattica.com: On Wed, 2009-03-11 at 08:02 -0600, Vitaliy Margolen wrote: Anyone? Also how about blocking this IP: 213.155.0.32 ? Not sure how we can block that IP easily. If it has to do with iptables, forget it. You add a line to moin_config.py : http://moinmo.in/AntiSpamFeatures#Black_Lists_--_detecting_spam_by_source MoinMoin doesn't have the sophisticated anti-vandal capabilities of MediaWiki, but it's far from helpless. - d.
Re: Wine on Windows - wiki notes
[reviving oldish thread] 2008/12/31 Steven Edwards winehac...@gmail.com: I've poked at it off and on over the years Its been my experience building on Cygwin was actually less trouble. Cygwin and SFU/Internix both require the same basic lowlevel magic. Proper signal handling, getting the thread management right and sendmsg/recvmsg support. I think someone on the cygwin side was working on the sendmsg/recvmsg part so maybe that could be ported over to SFU. I thought Cygwin had long had sendmsg/recvmsg: http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-patches/2002-q1/msg00111.html What do you mean here? - d.
Re: Wiki challenge question on user account creation
2009/3/11 Ben Klein shackl...@gmail.com: 2009/3/12 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: Reasons for picking Moin are typically: Reasons for picking MediaWiki are typically: Moin is sounding better to me so far. Less overhead is good. Generally, people pick a Wiki that Just Works (TM). Unfortunately, they pretty much all do, so there's no absolute this is better. The existence of so many different Wiki systems is testament to that. Well, yeah. Has anyone given a good reason to move from Moin? I can read the wiki and write stuff in it OK. I did a move at work from Moin to MediaWiki, on the intranet wiki ten of us use all day every day. Our reason was that our Moin wiki was just somehow not as usable as we wanted from a wiki, so we gave MediaWiki a go and it was good enough to bother moving engines. Also, the Moin wiki was full of outdated rubbish, so this was a handy excuse to start over. somehow not as usable isn't a strong argument either. Specifically what issues do you have with Moin, and are they present on wiki.winehq.org? None. You appear to be reading something that I didn't write. Number of new users is not necessarily proportional to number of new spammers. Do we actually have a problem with spam on the Wiki? If there is, I'll hereby put my hand up to help. You were implying that there IS a problem with spammers. I see a request elsewhere on wine-devel to have an IP blocked, so that's one spammer out of how many new users? Er, I didn't state that wiki.winehq.org has a problem with spammers - I asked if there was, *in the text you actually quoted*. Again, you appear to be reading things I didn't write at all, even while quoting what I did. Your communications are confusing, please make them less so. - d.
Re: Wine on Windows - wiki notes
2009/3/11 Steven Edwards winehac...@gmail.com: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 5:53 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: I thought Cygwin had long had sendmsg/recvmsg: According to Microsofts documentation (thanks Thunderbird) Vista/Windows Server 2008 and the Subsystem for Unix applications is supposed to support this so we might actually have a chance at seeing Wine run on Windows soon. I have a regression test for passing file descriptors with sendmsg/recvmsg I am working on that should be ready in a few more days and will post it. I'll test with Cygwin and SFU under Windows XP. Hopefully someone with Vista and Windows Server 2003 or 2007 can test for us. SUA for Windows 7 should be available around RC time: http://blogs.msdn.com/sfu/archive/2009/01/23/nfs-and-sua-in-windows-7.aspx (I've been experimenting with the Windows 7 beta. I'll have to hold off on more of that until I have a spare machine with the ridiculous quantities of memory it wants to run without great pain. Stupidly fat. Pretty, though.) Vista/Win7 is where Wine on Windows would actually be useful to users, of course - given Wine targets XP already. - d.
Re: [Wine] The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB
2009/3/7 IneedAname wineap...@googlemail.com: On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 20:10:13 + David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: Yep. That's why a wiki is nice. If you open it up to everyone to contribute, you'll get bad stuff but you'll get good stuff you just wouldn't get otherwise. It's a great format to capture that. We would use the same system for edit rights that we use now. Make appDB account then ask to be a maintainer then you can edit the wiki page for that app. The wiki is only for application notes. Anyone can read the wiki history. Con: It would be very hard to set up. Con: Becoming a maintainer is a pain in the backside. You won't get useful drive-by contributions, and a lot of this stuff is drive-by. Do not cross post or you may up set people with power. So when we're talking about a service to users, you're saying God forbid we ask the users? - d.
Fwd: [Wine] Re: The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB
The current appdb system doesn't actually work. Example below. -- Forwarded message -- From: fcmartins wineforum-u...@winehq.org Date: 2009/3/8 Subject: [Wine] Re: The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB To: wine-us...@winehq.org Well, I can certainly confirm there is a barrier for drive by submissions. As a matter of fact the barrier is even bigger than one might anticipate (as an occasional user): - sometime ago I submitted test data for a game. It was rejected with: Please fill the What does not work. I had written something like: I've done only initial gameplay. I believe the reply was implicitly there, so IMO it was a unneeded barrier. Anyway, I tried to oblige with a more explicit reply, and guess what: the submission was not working: After submit, the form came back with the old data!! So, another barrier. Furtermore, I sent an email to webmaster with the issue, but never heard anything back. As you can imagine, this has lowered my willingness to submit test data, and lack of updated info for newer versions of wine is THE major problem with appdb. On the positive side, I had two comments in Sacred deleted by the maintainer as a cleanup, and I felt the deletes were appropriate and educative. Anyway, I think appdb mostly works and putting a wiki as a full replacement would be a mistake. As it is, appdb has maybe a tiny bit too much structure and bureaucracy, but going to the wiki and loose all the structure would be silly. The UI and function of appdb is mostly quite good: I would look for small tweaks lowering the barrier for contributions: some areas could work like a wiki: the description, screenshots, and an always present howto. The howto should be always editable and invite people to improve it with their own tweaks, minimising the user having to go through the comments to find a possibly inexistent needle. I would definitely look into a simpler form to submit test data, but above all, I would look into having one of those wine appdb love days (weeks) were test data is put up to date, e.g. for a forthcoming 1.2?
Re: Fwd: [Wine] Re: The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB
2009/3/8 James Mckenzie jjmckenzi...@earthlink.net: Would you be willing to clean out the ash and trash that will show up with an open Wiki? I already said I would, yes - that the only reason for not just starting one is to avoid massive duplication of effort. I don't have the time to do this and it REALLY sounds like you are volunteering since you are pushing this issue so hard. See there are VALID reasons for doing things the way we do them. I'm sure there are. - d.
Re: Fwd: [Wine] Re: The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB
2009/3/8 James Mckenzie jjmckenzi...@earthlink.net: David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote on March 8th: 2009/3/8 James Mckenzie jjmckenzi...@earthlink.net: Would you be willing to clean out the ash and trash that will show up with an open Wiki? I already said I would, yes - that the only reason for not just starting one is to avoid massive duplication of effort. If we move to an open Wiki, be prepared to be very busy. I've seen spambots get past most, if not all, of the verification systems and bomb away. I've read where several systems had to shut them down for fear of being sued. At the present time, we have verification for exactly that reason. To keep the spam out and to pre-edit those entries that do not provide all of the information needed. I come from years of fighting vandals on Wikipedia. I know a thing or two about the field ... You're conflating a few separate things in your reply: * The spammers are mostly dealt with by requiring a login to write stuff *and* having a submission address or (better) form for those who can't be bothered creating yet another website login. * I've read where several systems had to shut them down for fear of being sued - [citation needed]. Sec 230 has proven enough to completely protect Wikipedia in actual court cases, not just in theory. * Entries that do not provide all the information needed - that's quality control, which is part of the editing process. - d.
Fwd: Sufficient 1.2 release criterion: passing all tests on all platforms?
to list as well -- Forwarded message -- From: David Gerard dger...@gmail.com Date: 2009/3/8 Subject: Re: Sufficient 1.2 release criterion: passing all tests on all platforms? To: Dan Kegel d...@kegel.com 2009/3/8 Dan Kegel d...@kegel.com: For graphics cards: 1st tier: Nvidia 8400 or higher 2nd tier: 4 year old Nvidia, 2 year old ATI, 2 year old Intel 3rd tier: older nvidia I would question Nvidia cards being first unless we're talking about the nv or nouveau drivers. The binary drivers are known to crash more with Wine because it puts more demands on them, and Nvidia is known not to care about this. The Intel drivers have the advantage of being good, being open source and being from a company that seriously cares about getting them right. Or, shorter: privileging a closed-source driver doesn't seem like a good idea. - d.
Re: Fwd: [Wine] Re: The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB
2009/3/9 Ben Klein shackl...@gmail.com: 2009/3/9 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: 2009/3/8 James Mckenzie jjmckenzi...@earthlink.net: If we move to an open Wiki, be prepared to be very busy. I've seen spambots get past most, if not all, of the verification systems and bomb away. I come from years of fighting vandals on Wikipedia. I know a thing or two about the field ... AppDB is not an encyclopaedia. And, of course, I didn't say it was, so your point is very unclear indeed. I would have thought the above was fairly obviously answering the question of wiki spam control, and noting that I know a thing or two about the area; in this case, the relevant point is that Wikipedia is a wiki rather than that it is an encyclopedia. If you're going to pick random unrelated tangents out of what I write, it won't really enhance communication. - d.
Whither AppDB? (was: Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by)
2009/3/7 Ben Klein shackl...@gmail.com: A wiki is likely to be highly unsuccessful for AppDB when the focus is on test data. I would have thought the focus would be on being useful to users. Regarding the changelog/history, it'd even be possible to use git to manage AppDB entries. It's perfectly possible to implement a complete history without moving to a wiki, but in my opinion only admins should have access to the history. At present users don't have a reliable go-to place. The present AppDB's failings have been detailed at length on wine-devel. I must confess I am entirely unable to see why history data, or any data in AppDB, should be restricted. - d.
The pros and cons of a wiki AppDB
2009/3/7 Rosanne DiMesio dime...@earthlink.net: I can think of one possible benefit. There are a lot of apps without maintainers, and there might be users of those apps who would be willing take a few minutes to post bits of useful information in a wiki, but don't want the responsibility of being a maintainer. Sure, they could just post info in a comment, but user comments are buried at the bottom of the page and not in a useful order for finding information quickly. The same goes for comments in test reports--I've found information on needed tweaks buried several reports down from the most recent. Yep. That's why a wiki is nice. If you open it up to everyone to contribute, you'll get bad stuff but you'll get good stuff you just wouldn't get otherwise. It's a great format to capture that. Being an app maintainer is too much like bureaucracy. It makes drive-by reports way too hard. Keep it simple, you'll get more information and therefore more good information. (Disclaimer: I'm a Wikipedia admin and press volunteer, so I think of wikis as good default solutions for lots of things ;-) What do users want from the AppDB? They want to know how well the app works with Wine, and what tweaks are needed to get it working. I'd be tempted to just go and start a wiki on the subject myself, but it'd be duplicated effort with the present AppDB. So I'd rather try to make a case for it. The present AppDB is lacking in many ways that I think a wiki would help with. I'm cc'ing this to wine-users - since I'd need to make a case for the wiki to developers, but it's actually *for* the users. Users: what's right and wrong with the AppDB? How useful is it for you? What would make it better? - d.
Re: [PATCH] [RFC] Make drive C always a Local disk
2009/3/8 King InuYasha ngomp...@gmail.com: Drive C: is not necessarily the truly central drive. I have seen Windows installs that installed on D: and have C: as a permanently mounted network share. To assume that drive C: is always what it is... is blasphemy. However, Wine does make this assumption, and probably the patch would be appropriate. Just throwing that out there. However, I have also seen wine installs onto a network where the WINEPREFIX is a network share so that multiple people can use the same program. This is true. I've seen a Windows box at work which has the system on the E: drive and no C: drive at all. WHAT. That said, is there any program in the world that would balk at installing on C:? - d.
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
2009/3/6 Rosanne DiMesio dime...@earthlink.net: I have not been deleting entries per se; I have on occasion merged duplicate entries using Move child objects. However, I was unaware until now that not everything in the merged entry was being transferred when I did this. I apologize for that; I did not realize that information was being lost. It will not happen again. Suggestion to improve AppDB: make it a free text wiki, with necessary structure being imposed by those writing it, and complete history preserved. - d.
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
2009/3/6 Austin English austinengl...@gmail.com: Codeweavers has their own AppDB type system: http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/ That's no reason not to mention them, if the point is to help the reader. - d.
Crashes on lack of times.ttf (bug 9623) and using Liberation Serif instead
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9623 Various versions of Photoshop, and now Safari 4, insist on Times New Roman being present or they crash on startup. (winetricks corefonts works around it.) Packaging Liberation Serif with Wine and putting a registry key to substitute Times New Roman with it would do the job and solve the bug nicely. The only problem I can see is that the Liberation fonts are GPL (plus font). Would including the font with the Wine download be possible without making Wine entirely GPL? - d.
Re: Crashes on lack of times.ttf (bug 9623) and using Liberation Serif instead
2009/3/2 Remco remc...@gmail.com: On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 3:06 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: The only problem I can see is that the Liberation fonts are GPL (plus font). Would including the font with the Wine download be possible without making Wine entirely GPL? Yes, I would think that that constitutes mere aggregation, which is allowed by the GPL and the LGPL. Of course, there are other possible metric-compatible fonts under GPL, e.g. Linux Libertine http://linuxlibertine.sourceforge.net/ which looks more like Times than Liberation Serif does. But then we're getting into matters of taste :-) - d.
Re: wine shirts
2009/3/2 Gert van den Berg wine-de...@mohag.net: Wine cures your Windows hangover! :) That's what I didn't like about that drunk penguin picture ... Use Wine in moderation. - d.
Re: winetricks does not reset service pack number correctly
2009/3/1 Fabian Köster koesterre...@gmx.net: Winetricks is not part of Wine. All bugs for it should be reported to: http://code.google.com/p/winezeug/issues/list Citing http://wiki.winehq.org/winetricks: Winetricks has a bug tracking system at http://code.google.com/p/winezeug/issues/list though sending email to wine- devel at winehq.org is usually good enough. I would be glad if I could avoid creating a google account. Email to wine-users would probably be appropriate - Dan Kegel reads that list too, and winetricks is a frequent solution to user problems (just what it's for) so is usually on-topic. - d.
Re: Simple but awesome demos of Wine?
2009/2/24 Ben Klein shackl...@gmail.com: 2009/2/24 Vit Hrachovy vit.hrach...@sandbox.cz: Mmmm. According to AppDB Runescape is said to work well in Wine ;) That's another layer-within-layer - Runespace is an MMORPG written in JAVA/OpenGL as browser-embedded application. Sounds like something that could work equally well natively ... It does. Also on Macs. - d.
Re: rpcrt4: Check for null endpoint in RpcServerUseProtseqEpExW
2009/2/22 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net: come on folks, pick up the ball. acknowledge that you're aware that there is an authoritative source of information on this horrendously-complex topic, in the form of nothing less than a fully functioning reference implementation. I don't think anyone questions this. But (speaking as an observer, not someone with any particular power to garner interest for this), I suspect that your best bet for getting traction on this in Wine is: * some apps that use this and work in Windows, but won't work on Wine without the admittedly bletcherous interface being implemented - that is, a good reason to implement this particular interface (remembering that there are large chunks of win32 that Wine doesn't bother implementing because it turns out they're all but unused by actual app developers) * then a conformance test or several that works in Windows but not in Wine. That is, the first thing is a real-life use case or several. - d.
Wine's malware compatibility: good
http://www.trustedsource.org/blog/186/Running-Windows-Malware-in-Linux With apps like ZeroWine, we can I think expect to see Windows binaries that try int 0x80 calls just because they might be useful and a Linux box will make a much more robust host. - d.
Re: Wine download page usability problem
2009/2/20 Dan Kegel d...@kegel.com: Next idea: why don't we detect the user's distro via javascript, and put a targeted link to the 'right' package above the table? Please try http://kegel.com/wine/distro.html and let me know if it detects your distro properly, I'll fix it up as needed. You're running Mozilla 1.9 on an unknown distribution Windows! (Actually Firefox 3.1 in Wine on Ubuntu, but there's nothing in the user-agent that says it's not Windows ;-) ) - d.
Re: WINEGATE.DLL: Wine gateway to native Unix libraries
2009/2/17 Vincent Povirk madewokherd+8...@gmail.com: My opinion on this particular issue doesn't matter, but we don't strictly prevent Windows apps from seeing the underlying Linux environment. Any app can make linux system calls, access the filename conversion functions, invoke linux programs, and access the unix filesystem using a wine-specific shell extension. As I understand it, this isn't possible at present. If I'm wrong, I'd like to know :-) (This is relevant to, e.g. malware analysis using Wine - where Wine-aware malware could easily just use int 0x80 to break out of the Wine environment. Which is one of the hazards of deliberately running toxic waste, and is why Zero Wine runs as a QEMU virtual machine rather than on the box directly, for a bit more safety.) - d.
