Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
On Monday 21 February 2005 15:45, Bill Medland wrote: By quickly looking at the program, I noticed it looks for a registry key, this key is... SOFTWARE\Wine\Wine\Config the wine configuration key. I was thinking, there may come a day when we have our own check (say, GenuWineCheck) to see if we're running genuine Wine, i.e. builtin dlls only. Something like the tainted check in the linux kernel, that enables you to discriminate binary-only modules. Because, in the end, who would want to support applications on Wine with binary only dlls mixed in? ;-) -Hans
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
On February 19, 2005 03:19 pm, Brian Vincent wrote: On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:25:17 -0700, Jesse Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:28:59 +0100, Ivan Leo Puoti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By quickly looking at the program, I noticed it looks for a registry key, this key is... SOFTWARE\Wine\Wine\Config the wine configuration key. Has anyone tried creating this key on Win2k or 98 and seeing what happens with the program? I just created the SOFTWARE\Wine\Wine\Config key here on both Win98 and Win2k. It failed. Both print the same error: It ran fine on mine (running GenuineCheck.exe). However that might be because I had already run it a couple of times before I added the key. -- Bill Medland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://webhome.idirect.com/~kbmed
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
I think something that has been overlooked in all this (and which is really off-topic for wine-devel, but I just can't resist) is the fact that with this GenuineCheck.exe program Microsoft are acknowledging the presence of another browser on Windows. Compare this to the situation with the Windows Update site that refuses to work with anything other than IE+ActiveX... regards, Darryl On Sat, 2005-02-19 at 16:19 -0700, Brian Vincent wrote: On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:25:17 -0700, Jesse Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:28:59 +0100, Ivan Leo Puoti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By quickly looking at the program, I noticed it looks for a registry key, this key is... SOFTWARE\Wine\Wine\Config the wine configuration key. Has anyone tried creating this key on Win2k or 98 and seeing what happens with the program? I just created the SOFTWARE\Wine\Wine\Config key here on both Win98 and Win2k. It failed. Both print the same error: Code not available. The validation code could not be obtained. This may be due to technical difficulties, or you may be running an unsupported operating system. Please close this window and attempt the validation process again, or use the Back button in your web browser to return to the download details page. [Error code: 0x8004026d] After I remove the key it works on both. I don't think GenuineCheck.exe is going to make it onto our list of Gold Applications in the AppDB any time soon. -Brian -- Darryl Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
Hi, On Fri, Feb 18, 2005 at 05:36:52PM +0100, Sam Lauber wrote: Agreed. Can't we just delete HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT/Software/Wine or move it to another name? Eh?? This is certainly a non-solution. Since they cared as much as actively checking for a Wine key and preventing downloads in the case of success (a thing that I'd never imagined they would do since it's quite likely illegal), they can enhance their checks anytime (remember: we're in the internet era with online updates occurring every other day...) with further Wine keys to check for. This is like the fly trying to escape the fly killer until it finally gets screwed royally, despite all its useless attempts to escape. IMHO we should re-examine the exact nature of this check (you really want to be sure in such critical matters), and if it is found to be deeply problematic (i.e. it is an *active* check for Wine containing the Wine registry key inside the Microsoft binary and it does block Wine under most circumstances), then think about whether we'll do anything about it. Instead, we could just choose to set our winver to XP for this update program. And the fact that Wine users are blocked from non-system updates could lead to further Wine development, as others have pointed out already. If however we decide that it is absolutely critical for us to have access to those updates, then we should do something about it: if it is a clear violation of the Sherman antitrust act (interoperability etc.) then we should ask Microsoft to remove this check in their next online update of the update program (an update which doesn't block Wine, that is!). If they don't comply even though they probably need to (and knowing MS too well they probably won't, but there might always be a big surprise), then legal proceedings might be in order. After all we don't want to end up like DR-DOS or WordPerfect or Novell (and countless others?) which have all been tricked by MS's API changes, right? But one thing is (almost) for certain: the current registry key will remain. Andreas Mohr
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:25:17 -0700, Jesse Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:28:59 +0100, Ivan Leo Puoti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By quickly looking at the program, I noticed it looks for a registry key, this key is... SOFTWARE\Wine\Wine\Config the wine configuration key. Has anyone tried creating this key on Win2k or 98 and seeing what happens with the program? I just created the SOFTWARE\Wine\Wine\Config key here on both Win98 and Win2k. It failed. Both print the same error: Code not available. The validation code could not be obtained. This may be due to technical difficulties, or you may be running an unsupported operating system. Please close this window and attempt the validation process again, or use the Back button in your web browser to return to the download details page. [Error code: 0x8004026d] After I remove the key it works on both. I don't think GenuineCheck.exe is going to make it onto our list of Gold Applications in the AppDB any time soon. -Brian
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
Shachar Shemesh wrote: Mike Hearn wrote: If the mere existence of this key makes the validation fail, what's to stop a virus from simply adding this key as a way to stop legitimate users from downloading the security fix for that same virus? Security fixes will be available for all users. But additional fixes only for users with genuine windows. bye ago NP: Absurd Minds - Creators -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gotti.org ICQ: 126018723
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
Shachar Shemesh wrote: If the mere existence of this key makes the validation fail, what's to stop a virus from simply adding this key as a way to stop legitimate users from downloading the security fix for that same virus? If MS is really doing what we think they may be doing here, I don't think they are going to be enjoying it for long. They are (what else is new?) shooting themselves in the foot (again?). Yes, I wonder if they considered that scenario ... presumably if that did happen they'd just have to get people to revalidate. The main problem with MS is that what they call core OS can get quite absurd. Exactly, right now their new anti-spyware app is protected even though it's definitely a new app. It didn't even exist (in its current form) when the last Windows update shipped. Amen to that. So, opengl, dcom, what else do we need? :-) OpenGL we provide ourselves. The big ones that I know about are DCOM, MSI and MDAC.
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
Agreed. Can't we just delete HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT/Software/Wine or move it to another name? In any case, at least from a technical point of view, going around such test ought to be fairly simple If the mere existence of this key makes the validation fail, what's to stop a virus from simply adding this key as a way to stop legitimate users from downloading the security fix for that same virus? If MS is really doing what we think they may be doing here, I don't think they are going to be enjoying it for long. They are (what else is new?) shooting themselves in the foot (again?). They're probably famous for that already ;-). I don't think we want to go there. I demonstrated a way of checking for Wine to Rob last night that we really cannot fix or workaround, and if I can think of it they certainly can too. I think I know what way you are thinking of. Not sure someone less versed in the way Wine works (it's an emulator, right?) would figure that one out, but I guess you are right. I'll try to catch you on IRC and see if we are, indeed, talking about the same thing. Basically if we start integrating workarounds into Wine, it'll lead to an arms race we cannot possibly win. Technically, it will probably cost them more than it will cost us. Then again, they also have more resources. I'll just point out that I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with MS wishing to keep the parts that truly are core Windows for Windows legal license users only. The main problem with MS is that what they call core OS can get quite absurd. Better to ensure our users don't need anything from that website. Amen to that. So, opengl, dcom, what else do we need? :-) Write our own replacement. Try OpenGL first. We might have to clean-room reverse-engineer DCOM. IMO, the `core' operating system (besides the CD!) is the main installation disks and service packs. Anything else is what I call a `program'. Samuel Lauber -- _ Web-based SMS services available at http://www.operamail.com. From your mailbox to local or overseas cell phones. Powered by Outblaze
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 07:45:11 +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Let's wait until they actually do something bad before we go around accusing them, shall we? Bear in mind, the reason they're doing this is almost certainly because they know that Wine users often go there to fill in missing pieces from Wine. Currently native DCOM does not seem to be protected, but native MSI is and also MDAC, Windows Media Player and Windows Scripting Host. As far as I'm concerned, this *is* bad: 1) It may make the lives of Wine users harder as they now have to deal with blocked validations (I suspect their standalone tool will get some bugfixes shortly) 2) It may mean there is more to come. As Ivan said, this is the first time they've done something like this - possibly not the last. thanks -mike
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 07:45:11 +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote: In any case, at least from a technical point of view, going around such test ought to be fairly simple I don't think we want to go there. I demonstrated a way of checking for Wine to Rob last night that we really cannot fix or workaround, and if I can think of it they certainly can too. Basically if we start integrating workarounds into Wine, it'll lead to an arms race we cannot possibly win. Better to ensure our users don't need anything from that website. thanks -mike
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
Ge van Geldorp wrote: When using IE and thus the ActiveX control there is no problem and my Windows is recognized as genuine. Looks to me the standalone validation program is seriously broken What about IE under Wine. It looks like that might work?
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
Boaz Harrosh wrote: What about IE under Wine. It looks like that might work? Maybe, but I don't want to pollute my wine installation with IE. Ivan.
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
Mike Hearn wrote: On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 07:45:11 +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote: In any case, at least from a technical point of view, going around such test ought to be fairly simple If the mere existence of this key makes the validation fail, what's to stop a virus from simply adding this key as a way to stop legitimate users from downloading the security fix for that same virus? If MS is really doing what we think they may be doing here, I don't think they are going to be enjoying it for long. They are (what else is new?) shooting themselves in the foot (again?). I don't think we want to go there. I demonstrated a way of checking for Wine to Rob last night that we really cannot fix or workaround, and if I can think of it they certainly can too. I think I know what way you are thinking of. Not sure someone less versed in the way Wine works (it's an emulator, right?) would figure that one out, but I guess you are right. I'll try to catch you on IRC and see if we are, indeed, talking about the same thing. Basically if we start integrating workarounds into Wine, it'll lead to an arms race we cannot possibly win. Technically, it will probably cost them more than it will cost us. Then again, they also have more resources. I'll just point out that I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with MS wishing to keep the parts that truly are core Windows for Windows legal license users only. The main problem with MS is that what they call core OS can get quite absurd. Better to ensure our users don't need anything from that website. Amen to that. So, opengl, dcom, what else do we need? :-) thanks -mike Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting ltd. Have you backed up today's work? http://www.lingnu.com/backup.html
Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
As some of you may know, Microsoft is planning to totally restrict access to the Microsoft download center to all non-genuine windows users. So you would expect some check for pirated copies of windows to be involved. If you visit the download center with IE you get an activex control, but if you try with Firefox, you'll have to download a little program, that returns a code you have to copy into the download page, to get access to the download you selected. By quickly looking at the program, I noticed it looks for a registry key, this key is... SOFTWARE\Wine\Wine\Config the wine configuration key. the Windows Genuine Advantage program press release http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2005/jan05/01-26GenuineAdvantagePR.asp says that in the second half of 2005, all users connecting to the Microsoft download center or to windows update will have to validate their copy of windows. Interestingly if you run the validation program on wine, and the version of windows you're emulating is prior to 2000 or is windows server 20003, you get a message saying a validation code couldn't be found, because of technical difficulties or because you're running an unsupported operating system. If you set winver to win2000, you'll get a validation code that doesn't work, this may be a bug in wine, or in the validation program. A valid and working code is returned if the version is set to xp. Still, even if this is only an initial attempt, they appear to want to discriminate wine users, while this may be acceptable for operating system components/updates, this is probably a violation of anti-trust law for all other downloads. It's also the first time Microsoft acknowledges the existence of Wine. Ivan Leo.
RE: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
From: Ivan Leo Puoti Interestingly if you run the validation program on wine, and the version of windows you're emulating is prior to 2000 or is windows server 20003, you get a message saying a validation code couldn't be found, because of technical difficulties or because you're running an unsupported operating system. If you set winver to win2000, you'll get a validation code that doesn't work, this may be a bug in wine, or in the validation program. When I run the validation program on my genuine Win2k system, I get the message saying a validation code couldn't be found because of technical difficulties or because I'm running an unsupported operating system. When using IE and thus the ActiveX control there is no problem and my Windows is recognized as genuine. Looks to me the standalone validation program is seriously broken Gé van Geldorp.
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
Ivan Leo Puoti wrote: A valid and working code is returned if the version is set to xp. Still, even if this is only an initial attempt, they appear to want to discriminate wine users, while this may be acceptable for operating system components/updates, this is probably a violation of anti-trust law for all other downloads. It's also the first time Microsoft acknowledges the existence of Wine. Ivan Leo. Let's wait until they actually do something bad before we go around accusing them, shall we? In any case, at least from a technical point of view, going around such test ought to be fairly simple. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting ltd. Have you backed up today's work? http://www.lingnu.com/backup.html
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
I expect that the check program will be reverse engineered and cracked to return genuine even for pirate copies in fairly short order. Either that or the pirates will just grab the patches and circulate them on the pirate sites anyway.
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
Jonathan Wilson wrote: I expect that the check program will be reverse engineered and cracked to return genuine even for pirate copies in fairly short order. Doesn't relate to us in any way. We are not pirates. Either that or the pirates will just grab the patches and circulate them on the pirate sites anyway. That one, unfortunately, I doubt. The patches are the least interesting thing for pirates. If pirates cared about keeping their machines secure, we would have all been at a much better position today. -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting ltd. Have you backed up today's work? http://www.lingnu.com/backup.html
Re: Microsoft genuine downloads looking for wine
Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] In any case, at least from a technical point of view, going around such test ought to be fairly simple. ...but is likely to violate the DMCA, leaving users in a legal limbo between the DMCA and the Fair Use Doctrine. What fun. ScottG.
