Re: Wine developers?
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:27:10 +1000, Troy Rollo wrote: On Friday 23 June 2006 22:50, Mike Hearn wrote: A very specific legal interpretation that would require the company behind Thinstall to want to hurt the Wine project be careful, none of us are lawyers here. That's not entirely true. We have IP lawyers on wine-devel? Can you say who? thanks -mike
Re: Wine developers?
On Wednesday 28 June 2006 02:11, Mike Hearn wrote: On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:27:10 +1000, Troy Rollo wrote: On Friday 23 June 2006 22:50, Mike Hearn wrote: careful, none of us are lawyers here. That's not entirely true. We have IP lawyers on wine-devel? Can you say who? I'm a non-practising lawyer, and my training does include IP law. There may be one or two others lurking - as I recall there were some others on the wine-legal list before it was shut down. -- Troy Rollo - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wine developers?
On Friday 23 June 2006 22:50, Mike Hearn wrote: A very specific legal interpretation that would require the company behind Thinstall to want to hurt the Wine project be careful, none of us are lawyers here. That's not entirely true. -- Troy Rollo - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wine developers?
On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:32:11 -0600, Vitaliy Margolen wrote: Basically you are _stealing_ developers from the project. Because with your closed source project such developer will be prohibited from participating in the Wine project. A very specific legal interpretation that would require the company behind Thinstall to want to hurt the Wine project be careful, none of us are lawyers here.
Re: Wine developers?
Hiya Jonathon, I wouldn't worry too much about the negative reactions there, which is a shame. As Molle has pointed out he is not really a Wine developer. I am and I'd say that it's totally fine to post such a job advert here, I'm sure there are people here who would like to find a good job with their skills. I hope you fill the position soon! Good luck! thanks -mike On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:59:59 -0700, Jonathan Clark wrote: My name is Jonathan Clark, and I work with a team on a project that has some similarities with Wine. The project is called Thinstall (http://thinstall.com), and on first glance similarities may not be apparent.
Re: Wine developers?
On Wednesday 21 June 2006 21:24, Vitaliy Margolen wrote: Wednesday, June 21, 2006, 11:41:32 AM, Andreas Mohr wrote: Hi, On Wed, Jun 21, 2006 at 07:27:28PM +0200, Kai Blin wrote: I wouldn't necessarily judge the whole list by just two negative reactions. It's interesting to see that with my wine experience there might be jobs out there working on something similar. (Not that I'm interested right now, I'm still at university...) I'm sure you're aware that in every open source project, there's people who oppose commercial software development for philosophical reasons. proprietary please, not commercial. HUGE difference. I was talking more about nature of the job. I'm sure that lots of Wine code can leak into commercial product and wise versa. What's worse is that it already DID happen, ane the party involved didn't think much of it (remember Poject David?) But this has little to do with the matter at hand. I doubt that Thinstall would really want to do anything illegal -- this woul,d ruin their reputation, and would likely expose them to a copyright lawsuit(s). We can only level accusations after they do wrong. Why should we a priori think of them as guilty? I think that while Vitaliy has some firm moral (and otherwise) viewpoints, the Thinstall bashing of his was a bit much. C'mon, they just politely asked if anyone is interested in a job. What's wrong with that? If I were looking for winapi hackers, I'd ask here myself. Jeez. Cheers, Kuba
Re: Wine developers?
Friday, June 23, 2006, 9:51:28 AM, Kuba Ober wrote: On Wednesday 21 June 2006 21:24, Vitaliy Margolen wrote: Wednesday, June 21, 2006, 11:41:32 AM, Andreas Mohr wrote: Hi, On Wed, Jun 21, 2006 at 07:27:28PM +0200, Kai Blin wrote: I wouldn't necessarily judge the whole list by just two negative reactions. It's interesting to see that with my wine experience there might be jobs out there working on something similar. (Not that I'm interested right now, I'm still at university...) I'm sure you're aware that in every open source project, there's people who oppose commercial software development for philosophical reasons. proprietary please, not commercial. HUGE difference. I was talking more about nature of the job. I'm sure that lots of Wine code can leak into commercial product and wise versa. What's worse is that it already DID happen, ane the party involved didn't think much of it (remember Poject David?) But this has little to do with the matter at hand. I doubt that Thinstall would really want to do anything illegal -- this woul,d ruin their reputation, and would likely expose them to a copyright lawsuit(s). We can only level accusations after they do wrong. Why should we a priori think of them as guilty? I think that while Vitaliy has some firm moral (and otherwise) viewpoints, the Thinstall bashing of his was a bit much. C'mon, they just politely asked if anyone is interested in a job. What's wrong with that? If I were looking for winapi hackers, I'd ask here myself. Jeez. I'm sorry that my intentions were misinterpreted because of the bad choice of words on my part. I didn't want to sound that negative. What I wanted to say, is that the nature of the Wine (windows internals) and Thinstall (internal knowledge of windows) are some what close. So it's kind of a thin line that I'm sure neither side wants to cross. As for the job offers - I wish you good luck finding the right person for the job. And for a Wine hacker to finally be able to pay his/hers bills. IMHO the project's developer's mailing list is not the right place to send such offers. PS: Again this is all IMHO and in no way should represent opinions of anyone else. Vitaliy.
Re: Wine developers?
Jonathan Clark wrote: Judging by the two negative reactions Based on the expressive smiley in my posting, I'd hardly consider it negative. It was more of a well-meaning joke, but perhaps also one that told how your posting could be interpreted. I *would* find it interesting to know how much inspiration you guys find in the Wine codebase, though. Have you thought about collaborating with the Wine project instead of hiring people from it? Since Thinstall versus the Wine project are not exactly targeting the same markets, collaboration on API development could be fruitful for both parties. (Oh, and I'm not exactly a Wine developer either, so no reason to take my comments too seriously.)
RE: Wine developers?
Judging by the two negative reactions, apparently I didn't follow protocol for posting to the list and I want to apologize for that. I understand how it can look from a different perspective. I checked with the #wine-hackers channel first and those guys were very friendly. We had a great discussion and when I mentioned we were looking for developers they suggested I post here. Thanks for your time and consideration, Jonathan
Re: Wine developers?
* Jonathan Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] [20/06/06, 23:35:26]: Judging by the two negative reactions, apparently I didn't follow protocol for posting to the list and I want to apologize for that. I understand how it can look from a different perspective. I checked with the #wine-hackers channel first and those guys were very friendly. We had a great discussion and when I mentioned we were looking for developers they suggested I post here. Thanks for your time and consideration, I wouldn't necessarily judge the whole list by just two negative reactions. It's interesting to see that with my wine experience there might be jobs out there working on something similar. (Not that I'm interested right now, I'm still at university...) I'm sure you're aware that in every open source project, there's people who oppose commercial software development for philosophical reasons. As for stealing developers, I think the terms of contract could make sure that the developer is free to work on wine in his spare time, but that's a thing for people interested in the job to take care of. The same people who proposed to post here will still back up that proposal, even if they don't speak up now. Cheers, Kai -- Kai Blin, (blin at gmx dot net) Is a person who blows up banks an econoclast?
Re: Wine developers?
Hi, On Wed, Jun 21, 2006 at 07:27:28PM +0200, Kai Blin wrote: I wouldn't necessarily judge the whole list by just two negative reactions. It's interesting to see that with my wine experience there might be jobs out there working on something similar. (Not that I'm interested right now, I'm still at university...) I'm sure you're aware that in every open source project, there's people who oppose commercial software development for philosophical reasons. proprietary please, not commercial. HUGE difference. As for those people even opposing commercial development: go wherever I don't need to see you ;) As for stealing developers, I think the terms of contract could make sure that the developer is free to work on wine in his spare time, but that's a thing for people interested in the job to take care of. Indeed. If the conditions are fine OSS-wise then I don't see a reason to complain. More offers is always a good thing :) Andreas Mohr
Re: Wine developers?
Wednesday, June 21, 2006, 11:41:32 AM, Andreas Mohr wrote: Hi, On Wed, Jun 21, 2006 at 07:27:28PM +0200, Kai Blin wrote: I wouldn't necessarily judge the whole list by just two negative reactions. It's interesting to see that with my wine experience there might be jobs out there working on something similar. (Not that I'm interested right now, I'm still at university...) I'm sure you're aware that in every open source project, there's people who oppose commercial software development for philosophical reasons. proprietary please, not commercial. HUGE difference. I was talking more about nature of the job. I'm sure that lots of Wine code can leak into commercial product and wise versa. As for those people even opposing commercial development: go wherever I don't need to see you ;) There are such people? If so, my guess would be 99.99% of them never wrote a line of code. Vitaliy
Re: Wine developers?
Tuesday, June 20, 2006, 2:59:59 PM, Jonathan Clark wrote: Hello All, My name is Jonathan Clark, and I work with a team on a project that has I think it's a really really really rude to write to an open source project and offer such a work. Basically you are _stealing_ developers from the project. Because with your closed source project such developer will be prohibited from participating in the Wine project. Unless of course you want to open source your project and release it under at least GPL licence. Vitaliy.
Re: Wine developers?
It's up to individual developers to decide whether or not to work on a project that precludes them from contributing to particular OSS projects. It might be slightly off topic but there haven't been a lot of job offer emails to wine-devel lately or ever. Chris On Tuesday 20 June 2006 9:32 pm, Vitaliy Margolen wrote: Tuesday, June 20, 2006, 2:59:59 PM, Jonathan Clark wrote: Hello All, My name is Jonathan Clark, and I work with a team on a project that has I think it's a really really really rude to write to an open source project and offer such a work. Basically you are _stealing_ developers from the project. Because with your closed source project such developer will be prohibited from participating in the Wine project. Unless of course you want to open source your project and release it under at least GPL licence. Vitaliy.
Re: Wine developers?
Lots of open source developers probably still have day jobs. Maybe they're looking for a new one. Vitaliy Margolen wrote: Tuesday, June 20, 2006, 2:59:59 PM, Jonathan Clark wrote: Hello All, My name is Jonathan Clark, and I work with a team on a project that has I think it's a really really really rude to write to an open source project and offer such a work. Basically you are _stealing_ developers from the project. Because with your closed source project such developer will be prohibited from participating in the Wine project. Unless of course you want to open source your project and release it under at least GPL licence. Vitaliy.
Re: Wine developers?
Jonathan Clark wrote: replaces the Windows loader for loading EXEs DLLs, doing things like mapping, imports, and thread/process management. It also replaces ~400 Win32 api functions We're currently borrowing code from the Wine project... with funding coming from our customers. Recently we've done fairly well financially and have the opportunity to try to take the product and company to the next level by hiring a couple of senior engineers. This brings me to why I'm posting here.. ...which we're having good commercial success with, so now we'd like to knick a couple of developers from the project, too! Sign-up forms here. Or did I completely misread your posting? :-D
