[WISPA] Mikrotik AP/Ubiquiti SR9 & Tranzeo CPE 900 MHz

[Mark Nash - Lists]

Can't get an association from the Tranzeo 900 MHz CPE to the Mikrotik RB532 
with the SR9 card.


I can associate with the Tranzeo 900 MHz AP immediately.

The only thing that I see that could be causing the problem is the channel 
table is off.


The Ubiquiti card has this:

922 MHz
917 MHz
912 MHz
907 MHz

The Tranzeo AP shows this:

923 MHz
918 MHz
913 MHz
908 MHz

I've got them both set to 5 MHz channel widths.

I've looked for a couple hours now and I can't see where to change the 
frequency tables on either product (like you can on the Trango).


Has anyone gotten this scenario to work?

Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax 




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RE: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

[Gino A. Villarini]

www.packetflux.com

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 6:06 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

Someone posted a 3rd party GPS sync module (around $300 I think?). Can 
someone share that info with me again, please? :)

Travis
Microserv

Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:

>Run Advantage AP's and Legacy SM's.
>
>With the Advantage AP's and legacy SM's you get the Latency, and High
>Priority Channel all the time, and can burst to full 2X Rate. If you need
>the full 2x Rate Sustained, buy an Advantage SM.
>
>
>To answer your question, yes the Advantage AP will deliver the full 14Mb
>Aggregate.
>
>Mike Bushard, Jr
>Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:51 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon
>
>Another quick question...
>
>If you are running a Canopy Advantage AP and you use regular Canopy 
>SM's, can the AP still deliver the 14Mbps of bandwidth, or will it be 
>limited to 7Mbps (like the SM's)?
>
>Trying to decide if I want to use Advantage SM's or just regular?
>
>Travis
>Microserv
>
>Anthony Will wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Well I have had 2.4ghz radio's link up at -89db (not very well mind 
>>you but...) so I don't know what to tell you other then Moto has 
>>traditionally understated there spec sheets.  The GPS is what sets the 
>>timing for the AP's.  The AP's coordinate the timing slots for all 
>>SM's registered to them.  So how it works is that all AP's on channel 
>>1 across the world all transmit at the same time, and all SM's synced 
>>to a AP on channel 1 with GPS timing from the AP listen at the same 
>>time.  Distance is not relevant unless you are utilizing the feature 
>>set of the SM to retransmit a GPS sync pulse that it receives from and 
>>AP to a BH or AP.  The lag that is introduced by having to transmit 
>>that pulse info across the wireless link to the SM retransmitting is 
>>the only time that distance can come into play.  The application this 
>>is used for is for a cheap repeater system so that you dont have to 
>>have a GPS synchronizing device at every tower.
>>/>SM
>>GPS -->AP#1 /
>>   \
>> \>SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) -->AP#2 
>>-->SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) -->AP#3 (this AP will be out of 
>>sync with AP#1)
>>
>>Basically the timing is measured in nano seconds so it takes to long 
>>for RF to transmit the data across the wireless links to continue to 
>>propagate the timing signal.  But if you put a GPS sync generating 
>>device at AP#3 it would be in perfect time with AP#1 and close enough 
>>timing with AP#2 that they all would get along.
>>
>>One thing to keep in mind is if you are the only Canopy shop in the 
>>area you can have your AP's generate the sync pulse and avoid the cost 
>>of the GPS synchronizing items.  Also again as for the distance 
>>statement.  6 AP's in a cluster sharing 3 channels have to be synced.  
>>believe me the messy antenna on the Canopy units dont have a good 
>>enough F/B ratio to not hear another AP 6" away from it.  The two AP's 
>>that are back to back share the same channel so that when they 
>>transmit the SM's that are listening are as far away from each other 
>>as possible and thus reduce any chance of talking over each other.  
>>The largest benefit that GPS sync allows is to add additional capacity 
>>to area's by allowing for more towers to be in a smaller area without 
>>self interference.  If long range rural deployments are the plan then 
>>GPS sync will only benefit you if you have competitors utilizing the 
>>same equipment and configuration in the area.  So a Moto advantage 
>>cluster has about 84mb total (Classic Canopy would be 42mb) FTP 
>>bandwidth available to it.  If more is needed you can place the towers 
>>with in a few miles and divide a cell into two micro cells each with a 
>>possible 84mb of total bandwidth for a total of 168mb serviced to a 
>>given area. One last note, GPS timing will not allow for two separate 
>>clusters of the same type ( two 2.4ghz clusters) to be on the same 
>>tower.  I can't write out whats in my head on this getting a 
>>little late in the night but if you wanted to I could talk to you over 
>>the phone and explain it.  Send me an email to anthonyw (at) 
>>broadband-mn.com and Ill give you my cell phone number or give you a 
>>call.
>>
>>Anthony Will
>>Broadband Corp.
>>
>>Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>First, the spec sheet on Motorola's website says -86 RSSI.
>>>
>>>What happens when you have more than 3 towers outside of the 8 mile 
>>>range of GPS sync? The 2.4ghz signal will definately tra

Re: [WISPA] Where to test my new DS3

[Matt Liotta]

Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Where can I test it to...
  
If you setup the iperf server I will hammer it with as much bandwidth as 
it can handle. ;)

Hey Matt, btw, nice PR on Yahoo what gear you are using to provide the
customers OSPF ?
  

Cisco

-Matt

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Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

[John J. Thomas]

inline...

>-Original Message-
>From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:22 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
>
>Until, the IRS decides that they can not be considered a contractor, because 
>they do not do work for other people, and are not solely in control of how a 
>job gets done.
>To do it legal, its pretty important that installer's company becomes 
>Incorporated or LLC.  Once they do that, its hard to keep control of what they 
>do, and you loose benefits of Employing.
>Benefits of employing, does that exist ? :-)
>
>I guess the truth is, can you find installers willing to give up benefits of 
>being an employee, and still be available when you need them like an employee?

>>> If you pay them well and give them enough work so they don't starve

John

>
>Tom DeReggi
>RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
>  - Original Message -
>  From: Rick Smith
>  To: 'WISPA General List'
>  Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 7:27 PM
>  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
>
>
>  the answer is hire a company to do installations for you.  if your employee 
> just happens to own that company, well, oh well…
>
>
>
>  It’s all invoices.   Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to worry about 
> taxes, etc.  Your employee (or sub’d company J…) does that on their own.
>
>
>
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>  Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PM
>  To: WISPA General List
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
>
>
>
>  Where the problems come in are, that paying someone peice rate does NOT 
> NEGATE the requirement to pay overtime for Employees.
>
>  Nor does it Negate the IRS's definition of what an EMployee is and a 
> contractor is.
>
>
>
>  You have to restrict employees to work less than 40 hours or prepair to pay 
> time and a half for your peice rate.  If an employee works 60 hours, and 
> completes three installs at in that week, at a peice rate of $100 each you 
> would pay the employee.
>
>
>
>  $300 / 60 hours = $5 per hour. Overtime (20 hours) would be paid on $100 of 
> the pay.  Addtional over time pay (half time) would be $50.
>
>  Total paycheck would be $350.
>
>
>
>  If it took them 60 hours to just get two installs done, they would be less 
> than the minimum wage.
>
>
>
>  So there are two requirements
>
>  1) You must have a minimum pay, calcuated on the total number of hours that 
> THEY record working.
>
>  2) Must figure out someones average hourly rate on a weekly basis. This 
> complicates the accounting duties, and forces the account to custom pay each 
> employee each month.
>
>
>
>  Two problems that can occur are...
>
>
>
>  What if you want to pay an employee well, because they are really doing a 
> good job, and then one week they decide to go really slow?  You end up paying 
> someone a huge amount of overtime unexpectedly!
>
>
>
>  What we learned was that a employee's record of stated hours worked was 
> accurate.  So paying peice rate does NOT NEGATE the need of the management to 
> record  and manage the hours worked by an employee.  We learned, that an 
> Employer is NOT responsible for their productivity the employer is.  So if 
> they go to the movies all day without you knowing it, and work late to get 
> the job done, you still owe them the overtime, regardless of what flat peice 
> rate you negotiated.
>
>
>
>  These are some of the reasons that we chose to put employees on Salary 
> instead of Piece rate.  We live in a sue happy county. We just plan on 
> everyone taking way to long for an install, and put very low expectations on 
> what they are expected to accomplish, and we save on management and 
> accounting salaries.  If they get done early, we have them do other things.  
> I won't talk about what happens if they don't get their work done, thats 
> handled on a case by case basis.  So we chose salary for ease.  IF they 
> consistently do well, they get a higher salary and stock options.  It creates 
> a team effort, not a what do I get mentality.
>
>
>
>  I don't know if that is the right decission or not, it really takes our guys 
> a long time to get things done. I often consider whether I should migrate 
> back to peice rate.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Tom DeReggi
>  RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
>
>
>
>- Original Message -
>
>From: Pete Davis
>
>To: WISPA General List
>
>Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:10 AM
>
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
>
>
>
>According to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee can be paid by the 
> hour or for piece work (by the job)
>
>from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm
>
>The Act requires employers of covered employees who are not otherwise 
> exempt to pay these employees a minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour 
> as of September 1

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

[Mike Delp]

Sync Pipe from Forrest.  I have three of them that just came in today.

www.packetflux.com

Mike

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 5:06 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

Someone posted a 3rd party GPS sync module (around $300 I think?). Can 
someone share that info with me again, please? :)

Travis
Microserv

Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:

>Run Advantage AP's and Legacy SM's.
>
>With the Advantage AP's and legacy SM's you get the Latency, and High
>Priority Channel all the time, and can burst to full 2X Rate. If you need
>the full 2x Rate Sustained, buy an Advantage SM.
>
>
>To answer your question, yes the Advantage AP will deliver the full 14Mb
>Aggregate.
>
>Mike Bushard, Jr
>Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:51 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon
>
>Another quick question...
>
>If you are running a Canopy Advantage AP and you use regular Canopy 
>SM's, can the AP still deliver the 14Mbps of bandwidth, or will it be 
>limited to 7Mbps (like the SM's)?
>
>Trying to decide if I want to use Advantage SM's or just regular?
>
>Travis
>Microserv
>
>Anthony Will wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Well I have had 2.4ghz radio's link up at -89db (not very well mind 
>>you but...) so I don't know what to tell you other then Moto has 
>>traditionally understated there spec sheets.  The GPS is what sets the 
>>timing for the AP's.  The AP's coordinate the timing slots for all 
>>SM's registered to them.  So how it works is that all AP's on channel 
>>1 across the world all transmit at the same time, and all SM's synced 
>>to a AP on channel 1 with GPS timing from the AP listen at the same 
>>time.  Distance is not relevant unless you are utilizing the feature 
>>set of the SM to retransmit a GPS sync pulse that it receives from and 
>>AP to a BH or AP.  The lag that is introduced by having to transmit 
>>that pulse info across the wireless link to the SM retransmitting is 
>>the only time that distance can come into play.  The application this 
>>is used for is for a cheap repeater system so that you dont have to 
>>have a GPS synchronizing device at every tower.
>>/>SM
>>GPS -->AP#1 /
>>   \
>> \>SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) -->AP#2 
>>-->SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) -->AP#3 (this AP will be out of 
>>sync with AP#1)
>>
>>Basically the timing is measured in nano seconds so it takes to long 
>>for RF to transmit the data across the wireless links to continue to 
>>propagate the timing signal.  But if you put a GPS sync generating 
>>device at AP#3 it would be in perfect time with AP#1 and close enough 
>>timing with AP#2 that they all would get along.
>>
>>One thing to keep in mind is if you are the only Canopy shop in the 
>>area you can have your AP's generate the sync pulse and avoid the cost 
>>of the GPS synchronizing items.  Also again as for the distance 
>>statement.  6 AP's in a cluster sharing 3 channels have to be synced.  
>>believe me the messy antenna on the Canopy units dont have a good 
>>enough F/B ratio to not hear another AP 6" away from it.  The two AP's 
>>that are back to back share the same channel so that when they 
>>transmit the SM's that are listening are as far away from each other 
>>as possible and thus reduce any chance of talking over each other.  
>>The largest benefit that GPS sync allows is to add additional capacity 
>>to area's by allowing for more towers to be in a smaller area without 
>>self interference.  If long range rural deployments are the plan then 
>>GPS sync will only benefit you if you have competitors utilizing the 
>>same equipment and configuration in the area.  So a Moto advantage 
>>cluster has about 84mb total (Classic Canopy would be 42mb) FTP 
>>bandwidth available to it.  If more is needed you can place the towers 
>>with in a few miles and divide a cell into two micro cells each with a 
>>possible 84mb of total bandwidth for a total of 168mb serviced to a 
>>given area. One last note, GPS timing will not allow for two separate 
>>clusters of the same type ( two 2.4ghz clusters) to be on the same 
>>tower.  I can't write out whats in my head on this getting a 
>>little late in the night but if you wanted to I could talk to you over 
>>the phone and explain it.  Send me an email to anthonyw (at) 
>>broadband-mn.com and Ill give you my cell phone number or give you a 
>>call.
>>
>>Anthony Will
>>Broadband Corp.
>>
>>Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>First, the spec sheet on Motorola's website says -86 RSSI.
>>>
>>>What happens when you have more than 3 towers outside of the 8 mile 
>>>range of GPS sync? The 2.4ghz signal will definately travel that far, 
>>>causing self

RE: [WISPA] Outage

[Jonathan Schmidt]

Our squirrel chewed off everything down to the copper center conductor
leaving it absolutely shiny and unmarred for just over 1 foot.  Everything
worked fine except for the Internet and low (1-6) channels as the cable
was against the metal gutter and the shield was enjoying a high-pass
filter via the capacitance of the shield's proximity to the gutter.
. . . j o n a t h a n

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of N White
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 5:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outage


HaHa! Amazing. We had a similar issue where some possible rats (or could 
have been squirrels, never found out for sure from them what it was) had 
gotten in a customer's wall and bit through the cable, just not 
completely severing the wires. So the link was very flaky, in and out. 
75% out. Fixed it with some small PVC pipe through the wall.

Nick


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
> So, I'm working from home today.  The internet goes off.  Wireless 
> router fine...cannot access cpe.  The cpe cable runs down the chimney 
> and I figured it rubbed through on the top.  I go up there and it is 
> fine.  I go to basement and head for the cable (runs through 8x8 
> cleanout to chimney)  I go to grab the tarp that is wadded up and 
> stuffed in the hole and I hear this awful hissing and growling.  I 
> jumped back and about crapped my pants!  Long story shortit 2 hrs 
> later and I now have a cap on the chimney and the GREY SQUIRREL ran 
> towards the back woods (lucky bastard, I'm too close to town for the 
> .22)  I was using a brick tied to a rope and I was throwing it down 
> the chimney for an hour.  He decided to run when I tried to stab him 
> with a piece of pvc I found in the basement.  Anyway, beware of them 
> squirrels.
>
> Brian


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Re: [WISPA] Outage

[N White]

HaHa! Amazing. We had a similar issue where some possible rats (or could 
have been squirrels, never found out for sure from them what it was) had 
gotten in a customer's wall and bit through the cable, just not 
completely severing the wires. So the link was very flaky, in and out. 
75% out. Fixed it with some small PVC pipe through the wall.


Nick


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
So, I'm working from home today.  The internet goes off.  Wireless 
router fine...cannot access cpe.  The cpe cable runs down the chimney 
and I figured it rubbed through on the top.  I go up there and it is 
fine.  I go to basement and head for the cable (runs through 8x8 
cleanout to chimney)  I go to grab the tarp that is wadded up and 
stuffed in the hole and I hear this awful hissing and growling.  I 
jumped back and about crapped my pants!  Long story shortit 2 hrs 
later and I now have a cap on the chimney and the GREY SQUIRREL ran 
towards the back woods (lucky bastard, I'm too close to town for the 
.22)  I was using a brick tied to a rope and I was throwing it down 
the chimney for an hour.  He decided to run when I tried to stab him 
with a piece of pvc I found in the basement.  Anyway, beware of them 
squirrels.


Brian



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Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

[Travis Johnson]

Someone posted a 3rd party GPS sync module (around $300 I think?). Can 
someone share that info with me again, please? :)


Travis
Microserv

Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:


Run Advantage AP's and Legacy SM's.

With the Advantage AP's and legacy SM's you get the Latency, and High
Priority Channel all the time, and can burst to full 2X Rate. If you need
the full 2x Rate Sustained, buy an Advantage SM.


To answer your question, yes the Advantage AP will deliver the full 14Mb
Aggregate.

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:51 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

Another quick question...

If you are running a Canopy Advantage AP and you use regular Canopy 
SM's, can the AP still deliver the 14Mbps of bandwidth, or will it be 
limited to 7Mbps (like the SM's)?


Trying to decide if I want to use Advantage SM's or just regular?

Travis
Microserv

Anthony Will wrote:

 

Well I have had 2.4ghz radio's link up at -89db (not very well mind 
you but...) so I don't know what to tell you other then Moto has 
traditionally understated there spec sheets.  The GPS is what sets the 
timing for the AP's.  The AP's coordinate the timing slots for all 
SM's registered to them.  So how it works is that all AP's on channel 
1 across the world all transmit at the same time, and all SM's synced 
to a AP on channel 1 with GPS timing from the AP listen at the same 
time.  Distance is not relevant unless you are utilizing the feature 
set of the SM to retransmit a GPS sync pulse that it receives from and 
AP to a BH or AP.  The lag that is introduced by having to transmit 
that pulse info across the wireless link to the SM retransmitting is 
the only time that distance can come into play.  The application this 
is used for is for a cheap repeater system so that you dont have to 
have a GPS synchronizing device at every tower.

   />SM
GPS -->AP#1 /
  \
\>SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) -->AP#2 
-->SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) -->AP#3 (this AP will be out of 
sync with AP#1)


Basically the timing is measured in nano seconds so it takes to long 
for RF to transmit the data across the wireless links to continue to 
propagate the timing signal.  But if you put a GPS sync generating 
device at AP#3 it would be in perfect time with AP#1 and close enough 
timing with AP#2 that they all would get along.


One thing to keep in mind is if you are the only Canopy shop in the 
area you can have your AP's generate the sync pulse and avoid the cost 
of the GPS synchronizing items.  Also again as for the distance 
statement.  6 AP's in a cluster sharing 3 channels have to be synced.  
believe me the messy antenna on the Canopy units dont have a good 
enough F/B ratio to not hear another AP 6" away from it.  The two AP's 
that are back to back share the same channel so that when they 
transmit the SM's that are listening are as far away from each other 
as possible and thus reduce any chance of talking over each other.  
The largest benefit that GPS sync allows is to add additional capacity 
to area's by allowing for more towers to be in a smaller area without 
self interference.  If long range rural deployments are the plan then 
GPS sync will only benefit you if you have competitors utilizing the 
same equipment and configuration in the area.  So a Moto advantage 
cluster has about 84mb total (Classic Canopy would be 42mb) FTP 
bandwidth available to it.  If more is needed you can place the towers 
with in a few miles and divide a cell into two micro cells each with a 
possible 84mb of total bandwidth for a total of 168mb serviced to a 
given area. One last note, GPS timing will not allow for two separate 
clusters of the same type ( two 2.4ghz clusters) to be on the same 
tower.  I can't write out whats in my head on this getting a 
little late in the night but if you wanted to I could talk to you over 
the phone and explain it.  Send me an email to anthonyw (at) 
broadband-mn.com and Ill give you my cell phone number or give you a 
call.


Anthony Will
Broadband Corp.

Travis Johnson wrote:

   


Hi,

First, the spec sheet on Motorola's website says -86 RSSI.

What happens when you have more than 3 towers outside of the 8 mile 
range of GPS sync? The 2.4ghz signal will definately travel that far, 
causing self-interference, correct?


Travis
Microserv

Anthony Will wrote:

 


Answers in-line

Travis Johnson wrote:

   


Hi,

I'd like to go back to the specs on different radios just so I can 
compare for myself...


Trango 2.4ghz:
5Mbps auto ratio
8 non-overlapping channels
10mhz spectrum per channel
-90 Receive level
15 mile range (without a grid)
External connector and dual-pol integrated antenna
$879 AP (WISP price)
$479 SU (WISP price)

Canopy 2.4ghz (regular):
7Mbps fixed

[WISPA] Outage

[Brian Rohrbacher]

So, I'm working from home today.  The internet goes off.  Wireless 
router fine...cannot access cpe.  The cpe cable runs down the chimney 
and I figured it rubbed through on the top.  I go up there and it is 
fine.  I go to basement and head for the cable (runs through 8x8 
cleanout to chimney)  I go to grab the tarp that is wadded up and 
stuffed in the hole and I hear this awful hissing and growling.  I 
jumped back and about crapped my pants!  Long story shortit 2 hrs 
later and I now have a cap on the chimney and the GREY SQUIRREL ran 
towards the back woods (lucky bastard, I'm too close to town for the 
.22)  I was using a brick tied to a rope and I was throwing it down the 
chimney for an hour.  He decided to run when I tried to stab him with a 
piece of pvc I found in the basement.  Anyway, beware of them squirrels.


Brian
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RE: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

[Gino A. Villarini]

You can have the cake and eat it too!!

Advantage AP to Classic SM can achieve 14 mbps to the Classic SM, not
sustained, only burstable.

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 12:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

Another quick question...

If you are running a Canopy Advantage AP and you use regular Canopy 
SM's, can the AP still deliver the 14Mbps of bandwidth, or will it be 
limited to 7Mbps (like the SM's)?

Trying to decide if I want to use Advantage SM's or just regular?

Travis
Microserv

Anthony Will wrote:

> Well I have had 2.4ghz radio's link up at -89db (not very well mind 
> you but...) so I don't know what to tell you other then Moto has 
> traditionally understated there spec sheets.  The GPS is what sets the 
> timing for the AP's.  The AP's coordinate the timing slots for all 
> SM's registered to them.  So how it works is that all AP's on channel 
> 1 across the world all transmit at the same time, and all SM's synced 
> to a AP on channel 1 with GPS timing from the AP listen at the same 
> time.  Distance is not relevant unless you are utilizing the feature 
> set of the SM to retransmit a GPS sync pulse that it receives from and 
> AP to a BH or AP.  The lag that is introduced by having to transmit 
> that pulse info across the wireless link to the SM retransmitting is 
> the only time that distance can come into play.  The application this 
> is used for is for a cheap repeater system so that you dont have to 
> have a GPS synchronizing device at every tower.
> />SM
> GPS -->AP#1 /
>\
>  \>SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) -->AP#2 
> -->SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) -->AP#3 (this AP will be out of 
> sync with AP#1)
>
> Basically the timing is measured in nano seconds so it takes to long 
> for RF to transmit the data across the wireless links to continue to 
> propagate the timing signal.  But if you put a GPS sync generating 
> device at AP#3 it would be in perfect time with AP#1 and close enough 
> timing with AP#2 that they all would get along.
>
> One thing to keep in mind is if you are the only Canopy shop in the 
> area you can have your AP's generate the sync pulse and avoid the cost 
> of the GPS synchronizing items.  Also again as for the distance 
> statement.  6 AP's in a cluster sharing 3 channels have to be synced.  
> believe me the messy antenna on the Canopy units dont have a good 
> enough F/B ratio to not hear another AP 6" away from it.  The two AP's 
> that are back to back share the same channel so that when they 
> transmit the SM's that are listening are as far away from each other 
> as possible and thus reduce any chance of talking over each other.  
> The largest benefit that GPS sync allows is to add additional capacity 
> to area's by allowing for more towers to be in a smaller area without 
> self interference.  If long range rural deployments are the plan then 
> GPS sync will only benefit you if you have competitors utilizing the 
> same equipment and configuration in the area.  So a Moto advantage 
> cluster has about 84mb total (Classic Canopy would be 42mb) FTP 
> bandwidth available to it.  If more is needed you can place the towers 
> with in a few miles and divide a cell into two micro cells each with a 
> possible 84mb of total bandwidth for a total of 168mb serviced to a 
> given area. One last note, GPS timing will not allow for two separate 
> clusters of the same type ( two 2.4ghz clusters) to be on the same 
> tower.  I can't write out whats in my head on this getting a 
> little late in the night but if you wanted to I could talk to you over 
> the phone and explain it.  Send me an email to anthonyw (at) 
> broadband-mn.com and Ill give you my cell phone number or give you a 
> call.
>
> Anthony Will
> Broadband Corp.
>
> Travis Johnson wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> First, the spec sheet on Motorola's website says -86 RSSI.
>>
>> What happens when you have more than 3 towers outside of the 8 mile 
>> range of GPS sync? The 2.4ghz signal will definately travel that far, 
>> causing self-interference, correct?
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>> Anthony Will wrote:
>>
>>> Answers in-line
>>>
>>> Travis Johnson wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 I'd like to go back to the specs on different radios just so I can 
 compare for myself...

 Trango 2.4ghz:
 5Mbps auto ratio
 8 non-overlapping channels
 10mhz spectrum per channel
 -90 Receive level
 15 mile range (without a grid)
 External connector and dual-pol integrated antenna
 $879 AP (WISP price)
 $479 SU (WISP price)

 Canopy 2.4ghz (regular):
 7Mbps fixed ratio
 3 non-overlapping channels
 20mhz spectrum per channel
 -8

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

[Mike Bushard, Jr]

Run Advantage AP's and Legacy SM's.

With the Advantage AP's and legacy SM's you get the Latency, and High
Priority Channel all the time, and can burst to full 2X Rate. If you need
the full 2x Rate Sustained, buy an Advantage SM.


To answer your question, yes the Advantage AP will deliver the full 14Mb
Aggregate.

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:51 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

Another quick question...

If you are running a Canopy Advantage AP and you use regular Canopy 
SM's, can the AP still deliver the 14Mbps of bandwidth, or will it be 
limited to 7Mbps (like the SM's)?

Trying to decide if I want to use Advantage SM's or just regular?

Travis
Microserv

Anthony Will wrote:

> Well I have had 2.4ghz radio's link up at -89db (not very well mind 
> you but...) so I don't know what to tell you other then Moto has 
> traditionally understated there spec sheets.  The GPS is what sets the 
> timing for the AP's.  The AP's coordinate the timing slots for all 
> SM's registered to them.  So how it works is that all AP's on channel 
> 1 across the world all transmit at the same time, and all SM's synced 
> to a AP on channel 1 with GPS timing from the AP listen at the same 
> time.  Distance is not relevant unless you are utilizing the feature 
> set of the SM to retransmit a GPS sync pulse that it receives from and 
> AP to a BH or AP.  The lag that is introduced by having to transmit 
> that pulse info across the wireless link to the SM retransmitting is 
> the only time that distance can come into play.  The application this 
> is used for is for a cheap repeater system so that you dont have to 
> have a GPS synchronizing device at every tower.
> />SM
> GPS -->AP#1 /
>\
>  \>SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) -->AP#2 
> -->SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) -->AP#3 (this AP will be out of 
> sync with AP#1)
>
> Basically the timing is measured in nano seconds so it takes to long 
> for RF to transmit the data across the wireless links to continue to 
> propagate the timing signal.  But if you put a GPS sync generating 
> device at AP#3 it would be in perfect time with AP#1 and close enough 
> timing with AP#2 that they all would get along.
>
> One thing to keep in mind is if you are the only Canopy shop in the 
> area you can have your AP's generate the sync pulse and avoid the cost 
> of the GPS synchronizing items.  Also again as for the distance 
> statement.  6 AP's in a cluster sharing 3 channels have to be synced.  
> believe me the messy antenna on the Canopy units dont have a good 
> enough F/B ratio to not hear another AP 6" away from it.  The two AP's 
> that are back to back share the same channel so that when they 
> transmit the SM's that are listening are as far away from each other 
> as possible and thus reduce any chance of talking over each other.  
> The largest benefit that GPS sync allows is to add additional capacity 
> to area's by allowing for more towers to be in a smaller area without 
> self interference.  If long range rural deployments are the plan then 
> GPS sync will only benefit you if you have competitors utilizing the 
> same equipment and configuration in the area.  So a Moto advantage 
> cluster has about 84mb total (Classic Canopy would be 42mb) FTP 
> bandwidth available to it.  If more is needed you can place the towers 
> with in a few miles and divide a cell into two micro cells each with a 
> possible 84mb of total bandwidth for a total of 168mb serviced to a 
> given area. One last note, GPS timing will not allow for two separate 
> clusters of the same type ( two 2.4ghz clusters) to be on the same 
> tower.  I can't write out whats in my head on this getting a 
> little late in the night but if you wanted to I could talk to you over 
> the phone and explain it.  Send me an email to anthonyw (at) 
> broadband-mn.com and Ill give you my cell phone number or give you a 
> call.
>
> Anthony Will
> Broadband Corp.
>
> Travis Johnson wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> First, the spec sheet on Motorola's website says -86 RSSI.
>>
>> What happens when you have more than 3 towers outside of the 8 mile 
>> range of GPS sync? The 2.4ghz signal will definately travel that far, 
>> causing self-interference, correct?
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>> Anthony Will wrote:
>>
>>> Answers in-line
>>>
>>> Travis Johnson wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 I'd like to go back to the specs on different radios just so I can 
 compare for myself...

 Trango 2.4ghz:
 5Mbps auto ratio
 8 non-overlapping channels
 10mhz spectrum per channel
 -90 Receive level
 15 mile range (without a grid)
 External connector and dual-pol integrated antenna
 $879 AP (WISP price)
 $479 SU (WISP price)

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

[Travis Johnson]

Another quick question...

If you are running a Canopy Advantage AP and you use regular Canopy 
SM's, can the AP still deliver the 14Mbps of bandwidth, or will it be 
limited to 7Mbps (like the SM's)?


Trying to decide if I want to use Advantage SM's or just regular?

Travis
Microserv

Anthony Will wrote:

Well I have had 2.4ghz radio's link up at -89db (not very well mind 
you but...) so I don't know what to tell you other then Moto has 
traditionally understated there spec sheets.  The GPS is what sets the 
timing for the AP's.  The AP's coordinate the timing slots for all 
SM's registered to them.  So how it works is that all AP's on channel 
1 across the world all transmit at the same time, and all SM's synced 
to a AP on channel 1 with GPS timing from the AP listen at the same 
time.  Distance is not relevant unless you are utilizing the feature 
set of the SM to retransmit a GPS sync pulse that it receives from and 
AP to a BH or AP.  The lag that is introduced by having to transmit 
that pulse info across the wireless link to the SM retransmitting is 
the only time that distance can come into play.  The application this 
is used for is for a cheap repeater system so that you dont have to 
have a GPS synchronizing device at every tower.

/>SM
GPS -->AP#1 /
   \
 \>SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) -->AP#2 
-->SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) -->AP#3 (this AP will be out of 
sync with AP#1)


Basically the timing is measured in nano seconds so it takes to long 
for RF to transmit the data across the wireless links to continue to 
propagate the timing signal.  But if you put a GPS sync generating 
device at AP#3 it would be in perfect time with AP#1 and close enough 
timing with AP#2 that they all would get along.


One thing to keep in mind is if you are the only Canopy shop in the 
area you can have your AP's generate the sync pulse and avoid the cost 
of the GPS synchronizing items.  Also again as for the distance 
statement.  6 AP's in a cluster sharing 3 channels have to be synced.  
believe me the messy antenna on the Canopy units dont have a good 
enough F/B ratio to not hear another AP 6" away from it.  The two AP's 
that are back to back share the same channel so that when they 
transmit the SM's that are listening are as far away from each other 
as possible and thus reduce any chance of talking over each other.  
The largest benefit that GPS sync allows is to add additional capacity 
to area's by allowing for more towers to be in a smaller area without 
self interference.  If long range rural deployments are the plan then 
GPS sync will only benefit you if you have competitors utilizing the 
same equipment and configuration in the area.  So a Moto advantage 
cluster has about 84mb total (Classic Canopy would be 42mb) FTP 
bandwidth available to it.  If more is needed you can place the towers 
with in a few miles and divide a cell into two micro cells each with a 
possible 84mb of total bandwidth for a total of 168mb serviced to a 
given area. One last note, GPS timing will not allow for two separate 
clusters of the same type ( two 2.4ghz clusters) to be on the same 
tower.  I can't write out whats in my head on this getting a 
little late in the night but if you wanted to I could talk to you over 
the phone and explain it.  Send me an email to anthonyw (at) 
broadband-mn.com and Ill give you my cell phone number or give you a 
call.


Anthony Will
Broadband Corp.

Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

First, the spec sheet on Motorola's website says -86 RSSI.

What happens when you have more than 3 towers outside of the 8 mile 
range of GPS sync? The 2.4ghz signal will definately travel that far, 
causing self-interference, correct?


Travis
Microserv

Anthony Will wrote:


Answers in-line

Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

I'd like to go back to the specs on different radios just so I can 
compare for myself...


Trango 2.4ghz:
5Mbps auto ratio
8 non-overlapping channels
10mhz spectrum per channel
-90 Receive level
15 mile range (without a grid)
External connector and dual-pol integrated antenna
$879 AP (WISP price)
$479 SU (WISP price)

Canopy 2.4ghz (regular):
7Mbps fixed ratio
3 non-overlapping channels
20mhz spectrum per channel
-86 Receive level



2.4 canopy has a -89 receive level


5 mile range (without a dish)
$902 AP (reseller price online)
$490 SU (reseller price online)



I am guessing your quoting single prices here.  Now that maybe 
viable for this discussion but realistically if a WISP is not 
financially able to purchase in 25 packs they likely are very 
underfunded.  So that the information is available a 25 pack of the 
"Classic" 2.4 ghz Canopy units is $6709 so if you break that down to 
single price that is about $269ea + $50 for reflector for a total of 
$319ea.  http://www.doubleradius.com   It is possible to get them 
cheaper then this but you will have to deal with co-op's or ebay.com
Also I would never

Re: Motorola membership (Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)

[Brian Rohrbacher]

Dylan Oliver wrote:

Just looked at the webpage to gather statistics like WISPA membership 
and mailing list subscription, but did not see it at 
http://www.wispa.org/?page_id=2. What audience will they reach by 
becoming a vendor member?


The "WISPA Vendor Members" text in the left column should be a link to 
either section 7.6.B on the Dues/Elections page or, better, another 
page detailing the benefits of Vendor Membership.


Have Alvarion, Optivon, and Deliberant all ponied up >=$5k for 
advertising space on wispa.org ? Are these the only 
Vendor Members?


I know these three are Vendor Members.  I dunno what was ponied up.

Brian
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Re: [WISPA] Real World comparison of Trango-staros-Alvarion

[George Rogato]

Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
 especially when we are a 6 person company

Ahhh,, so there is 4 more of you besides Tony and yourself that we could 
be giving a hard time to?


George
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RE: Motorola membership (Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)

[Mike Bushard, Jr]

I have a few phone numbers. The tech support has gotten better, but I only
call them with Prizm/BAM problems.

I really don't know that they have a "Patrick" but the area rep is helpful.
He has always gotten me to the right person.

Mike Rosedale Cell 847.722.1047



Mike Bushard, Jr
Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 9:20 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: Motorola membership (Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)

Partial hijack here.  On a related subject, is there anyone at Motorola 
that is "really good with WISPs".  Someone who I can call and talk to as 
a Canopy user.  Not a script reader.  I admit I have never called them.  
I rely on vendors, and other WISPs for all Canopy related info and 
support.  Moto is so big, I'm scared that I'd get the "hold music" for 
an hour and them some dude that I can't understand..Ok..what I 
want to know is what moto # do I call to talk to their "Patrick Leary".  
:)*Patrick suddenly feels warm and fuzzy inside...*  So I guess this 
isn't too much of a hijack.  :)  How do we contact their "Patrick".  
After we know that we can talk to him about joining.

Brian


Dylan Oliver wrote:

> On 9/28/06, *Rick Harnish* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> If we can get Motorola to become a WISPA vendor member, we will
> gladly start a list here without those restrictions. 
>
> How has Motorola been approached?
>
> Best,
> -- 
> Dylan Oliver
> Primaverity, LLC 

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Re: Motorola membership (Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)

[Peter R.]

You might want to take this discussion over to the Member list.

Dylan Oliver wrote:

Just looked at the webpage to gather statistics like WISPA membership 
and mailing list subscription, but did not see it at 
http://www.wispa.org/?page_id=2. What audience will they reach by 
becoming a vendor member?


The "WISPA Vendor Members" text in the left column should be a link to 
either section 7.6.B on the Dues/Elections page or, better, another 
page detailing the benefits of Vendor Membership.


Have Alvarion, Optivon, and Deliberant all ponied up >=$5k for 
advertising space on wispa.org ? Are these the only 
Vendor Members?


Best,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC 



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Re: Motorola membership (Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)

[Brian Rohrbacher]

Partial hijack here.  On a related subject, is there anyone at Motorola 
that is "really good with WISPs".  Someone who I can call and talk to as 
a Canopy user.  Not a script reader.  I admit I have never called them.  
I rely on vendors, and other WISPs for all Canopy related info and 
support.  Moto is so big, I'm scared that I'd get the "hold music" for 
an hour and them some dude that I can't understand..Ok..what I 
want to know is what moto # do I call to talk to their "Patrick Leary".  
:)*Patrick suddenly feels warm and fuzzy inside...*  So I guess this 
isn't too much of a hijack.  :)  How do we contact their "Patrick".  
After we know that we can talk to him about joining.


Brian


Dylan Oliver wrote:

On 9/28/06, *Rick Harnish* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


If we can get Motorola to become a WISPA vendor member, we will
gladly start a list here without those restrictions. 


How has Motorola been approached?

Best,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC 


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Re: Motorola membership (Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)

[Dylan Oliver]

Just looked at the webpage to gather statistics like WISPA membership and mailing list subscription, but did not see it at http://www.wispa.org/?page_id=2. What audience will they reach by becoming a vendor member?
The "WISPA Vendor Members" text in the left column should be a link to either section 7.6.B on the Dues/Elections page or, better, another page detailing the benefits of Vendor Membership.
Have Alvarion, Optivon, and Deliberant all ponied up >=$5k for advertising space on wispa.org? Are these the only Vendor Members?Best,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC
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RE: Motorola membership (Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)

[Don Renner]

I will be in meetings with Motorola next
week.  Will see if can get done. 

 

What level did Alvarion commit to? 
Might help get them to make bigger outlay.

 

Don Renner

NetsurfUSA, Inc.

812-936-4514

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006
8:44 AM
To: 'WISPA
 General List'
Subject: RE: Motorola membership
(Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)



 

I’m not sure whether they have
yet.  I think they were last year but I don’t recall right
now.  Anyone who is a valuable Motorola customer want to take this
on?  

 



Rick Harnish

President

OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless,
Inc.

260-827-2482

Founding Member of WISPA











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dylan Oliver
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006
9:16 AM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Motorola membership (Re:
[WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)



 

On 9/28/06, Rick Harnish
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:









If we can get Motorola to become a WISPA vendor member, we will
gladly start a list here without those restrictions.  









How has Motorola been approached?

Best,
-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC 








smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
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RE: Motorola membership (Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)

[Rick Harnish]

I’m not sure whether they have yet. 
I think they were last year but I don’t recall right now.  Anyone who is
a valuable Motorola customer want to take this on?  

 



Rick Harnish

President

OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless,
Inc.

260-827-2482

Founding Member of WISPA











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dylan Oliver
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006
9:16 AM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Motorola membership (Re:
[WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)



 

On 9/28/06, Rick Harnish
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:









If we can get Motorola to become a WISPA vendor member, we
will gladly start a list here without those restrictions.  









How has Motorola been approached?

Best,
-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC 






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Motorola membership (Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)

[Dylan Oliver]

On 9/28/06, Rick Harnish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

















If we can get Motorola to become a WISPA
vendor member, we will gladly start a list here without those restrictions. 
How has Motorola been approached?Best,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] Real World comparison of Trango-staros-Alvarion

[Tom DeReggi]

The Alvarion got temporarilly installed, towards the end. The time involved 
was not a fair comparison, because many things were already done like dishes 
already aligned.
But it took us all of 15 minutes, to install and run the tests with the 
Alvarion gear.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 10:12 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Real World comparison of Trango-staros-Alvarion



On Wed, 27 Sep 2006, Brad Larson wrote:

Butch, I don't believe Tom spent 2 days installing the Alvarion 
linkBrad


Nope.  If I implied that, I apologize.  He spent 2 days installing _A_ 
link.  Part of the time was with Trango and the final (and current) link 
was StarOS.  As I understand it, the Alvarion never got installed, or if 
it did, it was replaced with the StarOS for reasons which he detailed in 
the original post in this thread.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)
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--
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RE: [WISPA] Where to test my new DS3

[Gino A. Villarini]

Where can I test it to...

Hey Matt, btw, nice PR on Yahoo what gear you are using to provide the
customers OSPF ?

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 10:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where to test my new DS3

Setup an iperf server.

-Matt

Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>
> Anyone know of a high cap BW tester?
>
> Gino A. Villarini
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>

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