[WISPA] U.S. not getting broadband fast enough, FCC Says
Yet, another push for broadband from the FCC: http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/web/07/20/fcc.broadband.access/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
I am paying close to $1200/mth here for 6 Mbit on metro-e. Located at middle TN/KY border. Scott > 100meg metro e is running 3000.00 here. > > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Matt wrote: > >> > Quick alert to those who are not aware... back when I was running my >> > business on T1 lines, I just assumed that when I was ready, I could >> > order a T3 and upgrade my bandwidth. Not so. >> > >> > Just because you can get a T1 doesn't mean you can get a T3 without >> > huge buildout costs. I was quoted $400,000 dollars to upgrade to a T3. >> > I managed to get around it because otherwise AT&T would have had to >> > install a high count copper line down my road to be able to keep >> > offering POTS service here, so I got lucky, and had a free install. >> > But you may not be that fortunate. >> > >> > I just thought if I posted this, it might give some people a heads up >> > to start planning for more bandwidth when you're coming close to >> > needing t3 type capacity. >> >> What are you paying for your DS3? We are nearing the point of moving >> to OC3's at both locations and the loops are outrageous. This is on >> AT&T as well. >> >> Matt >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > -- > Jeremie Chism > TritonDataLink > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Has anyone used Mediacomm Fiber for their backbone?
I have a connection to me across the state line that can be easily back hauled across the TN/KY line. In TN, the rural telco's rule the roost, and love to add on to the last mile charges . I have a tower that can easily reach into KY within 20 miles. Mediacomm has a tower within 16 miles that I can reach. I have asked them to price me bandwidth on fiber to their tower in KY, and the price to locate my back haul on their tower(their tower is almost 500' tall, so I can almost pick my area on that tower, if they allow). Have any of you guy's or gal's dealt with Mediacomm before? The problem is that I can't get a bandwidth quote, much less a tower quote out of them! I contacted them with a question of fiber availability and quickly got a response. Once I told them I was an ISP and wanted to back-haul it across the TN/KY border, everything went to a stand still. They had no problem quoting me bandwidth on fiber with a KY address about a year before. I also told them that I was an ISP in TN and my whole intentions of back hauling it. I am at a standstill with dealing with Mediacomm. Their pricing a few years ago, was much less than what I am paying now. I have repeatedly emailed the contact, and she has gotten back to me once in the last 2 months. The reply back was that she had been on vacation the week before and she was still awaiting pricing from the "higher ups." She also told me the tower crew wanted to talk to me about what I wanted to mount on the tower...I told her the number to contact me at almost 2 weeks ago, and have not heard from them either. I guess my question is, "have any of you dealt with Mediacomm before, and is my situation usual...or unusual?" Scottie WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
But, if you're a plumber!?!? Now, to be fair, I've never claimed to be an expert nor expect to ever do so. Then again, not too many expert plumbers either :) Now, back to the outage list! -RickG On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 12:24 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: > Well .. it is like plumbing > > How many of us know the Plumbing and Drainage infrastructure in our > areas ? > > (Myself very little, cause I don't have to deal with it... :) ) > > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet& Telecom > 7266 SW 48 Street > Miami, Fl 33155 > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 > Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net > > > On 7/20/2010 11:57 PM, RickG wrote: >> It amazes me how little people know about telecommunications >> infrastructure - or lack thereof. >> >> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Mike Hammett >> wrote: >> >>> Agreed. It amazes me how little people know about the >>> telecommunications infrastructure in their area. >>> >>> - >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> >>> >>> On 7/20/2010 5:57 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: >>> I have been quietly watching this discussion I don't claim to be an expert, but being a wire line ISP, let me add / clarify some thoughts / facts T1 / T3 or DS3 / OC3 are all TDM / Legacy services T1, can be extended (long distance) via field repeaters... (T1's are based on HDSL technology and go about 12000ft from the CO or Repeater.) T3/DS3 are peeled off OC3 or Sonet (optical) MuxesThese are larger expensive pieces of equipment that require a lot of power and are fiber fed. While all of the legacy TDM services are regulated (i.e the price is disclosed on a tariff) but the ILEC is allowed to recover build out costs... these costs are high, in addition, the ILEC's are also aware that these High Cap transports are used by other Competitors and as such exercise full discretion on discouraging purchase of these circuits, by using extra inflated build out costs, and if you agree to pay that, then the 2nd option they use is extra extra long build out time schedule... 9 to 12 months easy. For Enterprise customers, they will do the build at no cost or little cost, but the Enterprise customer also has to provide them with space and power, typically 2-3 racks of space and 20-40 amps of power. Today, the ILEC's are not interested in doing such buildout, unless someone is buying SONET transport from them or a bundle of multiple DS3's / OC'3 combination, and there are a few more if's... The most cost effective form of transport that an ISP / WISP can purchase from a Carrier (ILEC or Cable Co or another type of provider) would be Ethernet .. 100Meg or Gig E While these are un-regulated services, which means an ILEC's can exercise their discretion on providing this type of service to you and I or another Carrier however in many places (typically office buildings in a metro downtown area) would have equipment / fiber already installed that they can deliver the service at that location. These days the local Cable Company who has been doing fiber build outs for their cable plants is also pretty eager to sell IP Transit or Ethernet Transport over the Fiber system.. Most of them are working on a pretty fair means of pricing the fiber service and will not discriminate against service providers... (most of them...) Another often overlooked fiber carrier is the local Power Company. Most power companies have a "Fiber / Network Division" they have been the largest providers of dark fiber for a lot of carriers (including cell carriers, when they cell carriers were not owned by the ILEC and the ILEC would not provide them high speed pipes to the cell towers..). But these folks are normally harder to track down unless they are aggressively selling services... I often collect Network Maps from carriers and competitive service providers, just to be able to find out what are "On-Net" locations for them... make life much easier in determining where to pickup the service from rather than having them do the buildout and bring them to where you are Hope this helps. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet& Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 7/20/2010 6:19 PM, RickG wrote: > In my previous life as an AT&T Cellular switch manager, we had > hundreds of T1's& T3's ordered that never came in - yes, I mean > never. And we practically had a blank check! > -RickG > > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Kristian Hoffmann > wro
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
Well .. it is like plumbing How many of us know the Plumbing and Drainage infrastructure in our areas ? (Myself very little, cause I don't have to deal with it... :) ) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet& Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 7/20/2010 11:57 PM, RickG wrote: > It amazes me how little people know about telecommunications > infrastructure - or lack thereof. > > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Mike Hammett > wrote: > >> Agreed. It amazes me how little people know about the >> telecommunications infrastructure in their area. >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> On 7/20/2010 5:57 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: >> >>> I have been quietly watching this discussion >>> >>> I don't claim to be an expert, but being a wire line ISP, let me add / >>> clarify some thoughts / facts >>> >>> T1 / T3 or DS3 / OC3 are all TDM / Legacy services >>> >>> T1, can be extended (long distance) via field repeaters... (T1's are >>> based on HDSL technology and go about 12000ft from the CO or Repeater.) >>> T3/DS3 are peeled off OC3 or Sonet (optical) MuxesThese are larger >>> expensive pieces of equipment that require a lot of power and are fiber fed. >>> >>> While all of the legacy TDM services are regulated (i.e the price is >>> disclosed on a tariff) but the ILEC is allowed to recover build out >>> costs... these costs are high, >>> in addition, the ILEC's are also aware that these High Cap transports >>> are used by other Competitors and as such exercise full discretion on >>> discouraging purchase of these circuits, by using extra inflated build >>> out costs, and if you agree to pay that, then the 2nd option they use is >>> extra extra long build out time schedule... 9 to 12 months easy. >>> >>> For Enterprise customers, they will do the build at no cost or little >>> cost, but the Enterprise customer also has to provide them with space >>> and power, typically 2-3 racks of space and 20-40 amps of power. >>> >>> Today, the ILEC's are not interested in doing such buildout, unless >>> someone is buying SONET transport from them or a bundle of multiple >>> DS3's / OC'3 combination, and there are a few more if's... >>> >>> The most cost effective form of transport that an ISP / WISP can >>> purchase from a Carrier (ILEC or Cable Co or another type of provider) >>> would be Ethernet .. >>> 100Meg or Gig E While these are un-regulated services, which means >>> an ILEC's can exercise their discretion on providing this type of >>> service to you and I or another Carrier however in many places >>> (typically office buildings in a metro downtown area) would have >>> equipment / fiber already installed that they can deliver the service at >>> that location. >>> >>> These days the local Cable Company who has been doing fiber build outs >>> for their cable plants is also pretty eager to sell IP Transit or >>> Ethernet Transport over the Fiber system.. Most of them are working on a >>> pretty fair means of pricing the fiber service and will not discriminate >>> against service providers... (most of them...) >>> >>> Another often overlooked fiber carrier is the local Power Company. >>> Most power companies have a "Fiber / Network Division" they have been >>> the largest providers of dark fiber for a lot of carriers (including >>> cell carriers, when they cell carriers were not owned by the ILEC and >>> the ILEC would not provide them high speed pipes to the cell towers..). >>> But these folks are normally harder to track down unless they are >>> aggressively selling services... >>> >>> I often collect Network Maps from carriers and competitive service >>> providers, just to be able to find out what are "On-Net" locations for >>> them... make life much easier in determining where to pickup the service >>> from rather than having them do the buildout and bring them to where you >>> are >>> >>> Hope this helps. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> >>> >>> Faisal Imtiaz >>> Snappy Internet& Telecom >>> 7266 SW 48 Street >>> Miami, Fl 33155 >>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >>> Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net >>> >>> >>> On 7/20/2010 6:19 PM, RickG wrote: >>> In my previous life as an AT&T Cellular switch manager, we had hundreds of T1's& T3's ordered that never came in - yes, I mean never. And we practically had a blank check! -RickG On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Kristian Hoffmann wrote: > After about a year of getting the same response from AT&T after multiple > order requests at different locations across our network, the guy in > charge of building out fiber for the region called and said "what in the > world are you guys doing?!?" He ended up giving us the location of a > few fiber terminals in the
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
It amazes me how little people know about telecommunications infrastructure - or lack thereof. On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > Agreed. It amazes me how little people know about the > telecommunications infrastructure in their area. > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > On 7/20/2010 5:57 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: >> I have been quietly watching this discussion >> >> I don't claim to be an expert, but being a wire line ISP, let me add / >> clarify some thoughts / facts >> >> T1 / T3 or DS3 / OC3 are all TDM / Legacy services >> >> T1, can be extended (long distance) via field repeaters... (T1's are >> based on HDSL technology and go about 12000ft from the CO or Repeater.) >> T3/DS3 are peeled off OC3 or Sonet (optical) MuxesThese are larger >> expensive pieces of equipment that require a lot of power and are fiber fed. >> >> While all of the legacy TDM services are regulated (i.e the price is >> disclosed on a tariff) but the ILEC is allowed to recover build out >> costs... these costs are high, >> in addition, the ILEC's are also aware that these High Cap transports >> are used by other Competitors and as such exercise full discretion on >> discouraging purchase of these circuits, by using extra inflated build >> out costs, and if you agree to pay that, then the 2nd option they use is >> extra extra long build out time schedule... 9 to 12 months easy. >> >> For Enterprise customers, they will do the build at no cost or little >> cost, but the Enterprise customer also has to provide them with space >> and power, typically 2-3 racks of space and 20-40 amps of power. >> >> Today, the ILEC's are not interested in doing such buildout, unless >> someone is buying SONET transport from them or a bundle of multiple >> DS3's / OC'3 combination, and there are a few more if's... >> >> The most cost effective form of transport that an ISP / WISP can >> purchase from a Carrier (ILEC or Cable Co or another type of provider) >> would be Ethernet .. >> 100Meg or Gig E While these are un-regulated services, which means >> an ILEC's can exercise their discretion on providing this type of >> service to you and I or another Carrier however in many places >> (typically office buildings in a metro downtown area) would have >> equipment / fiber already installed that they can deliver the service at >> that location. >> >> These days the local Cable Company who has been doing fiber build outs >> for their cable plants is also pretty eager to sell IP Transit or >> Ethernet Transport over the Fiber system.. Most of them are working on a >> pretty fair means of pricing the fiber service and will not discriminate >> against service providers... (most of them...) >> >> Another often overlooked fiber carrier is the local Power Company. >> Most power companies have a "Fiber / Network Division" they have been >> the largest providers of dark fiber for a lot of carriers (including >> cell carriers, when they cell carriers were not owned by the ILEC and >> the ILEC would not provide them high speed pipes to the cell towers..). >> But these folks are normally harder to track down unless they are >> aggressively selling services... >> >> I often collect Network Maps from carriers and competitive service >> providers, just to be able to find out what are "On-Net" locations for >> them... make life much easier in determining where to pickup the service >> from rather than having them do the buildout and bring them to where you >> are >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> Regards >> >> >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> Snappy Internet& Telecom >> 7266 SW 48 Street >> Miami, Fl 33155 >> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >> Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net >> >> >> On 7/20/2010 6:19 PM, RickG wrote: >>> In my previous life as an AT&T Cellular switch manager, we had >>> hundreds of T1's& T3's ordered that never came in - yes, I mean >>> never. And we practically had a blank check! >>> -RickG >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Kristian Hoffmann >>> wrote: >>> After about a year of getting the same response from AT&T after multiple order requests at different locations across our network, the guy in charge of building out fiber for the region called and said "what in the world are you guys doing?!?" He ended up giving us the location of a few fiber terminals in the area. We found the ones closest to our network, made an agreement with a tenant nearby, and did a wireless PtP to connect it to our network. Moral of the story, we were shooting in the dark until we had an "in" in the right department at AT&T. On a related note, does anyone have an experience with Charter's fiber services? -- Kristian Hoffmann System Administrator kh...@fire2wire.com http://www.fire2wire.com Office - 209-543-1800 | Fax - 209-545-146
[WISPA] alvarion vl grounding
We have been using Transtector ALPU-ALVR units, they work great, but the price on these units keeps climbing higher and higher it seems. They are at almost $200/unit with tessco. Transtector directly gave me a better price for a quantity purchase, but before I move forward with that, I would like to know if anybody is using another product with good success. -- Thanks, Cameron WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
Agreed. It amazes me how little people know about the telecommunications infrastructure in their area. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 7/20/2010 5:57 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: > I have been quietly watching this discussion > > I don't claim to be an expert, but being a wire line ISP, let me add / > clarify some thoughts / facts > > T1 / T3 or DS3 / OC3 are all TDM / Legacy services > > T1, can be extended (long distance) via field repeaters... (T1's are > based on HDSL technology and go about 12000ft from the CO or Repeater.) > T3/DS3 are peeled off OC3 or Sonet (optical) MuxesThese are larger > expensive pieces of equipment that require a lot of power and are fiber fed. > > While all of the legacy TDM services are regulated (i.e the price is > disclosed on a tariff) but the ILEC is allowed to recover build out > costs... these costs are high, > in addition, the ILEC's are also aware that these High Cap transports > are used by other Competitors and as such exercise full discretion on > discouraging purchase of these circuits, by using extra inflated build > out costs, and if you agree to pay that, then the 2nd option they use is > extra extra long build out time schedule... 9 to 12 months easy. > > For Enterprise customers, they will do the build at no cost or little > cost, but the Enterprise customer also has to provide them with space > and power, typically 2-3 racks of space and 20-40 amps of power. > > Today, the ILEC's are not interested in doing such buildout, unless > someone is buying SONET transport from them or a bundle of multiple > DS3's / OC'3 combination, and there are a few more if's... > > The most cost effective form of transport that an ISP / WISP can > purchase from a Carrier (ILEC or Cable Co or another type of provider) > would be Ethernet .. > 100Meg or Gig E While these are un-regulated services, which means > an ILEC's can exercise their discretion on providing this type of > service to you and I or another Carrier however in many places > (typically office buildings in a metro downtown area) would have > equipment / fiber already installed that they can deliver the service at > that location. > > These days the local Cable Company who has been doing fiber build outs > for their cable plants is also pretty eager to sell IP Transit or > Ethernet Transport over the Fiber system.. Most of them are working on a > pretty fair means of pricing the fiber service and will not discriminate > against service providers... (most of them...) > > Another often overlooked fiber carrier is the local Power Company. > Most power companies have a "Fiber / Network Division" they have been > the largest providers of dark fiber for a lot of carriers (including > cell carriers, when they cell carriers were not owned by the ILEC and > the ILEC would not provide them high speed pipes to the cell towers..). > But these folks are normally harder to track down unless they are > aggressively selling services... > > I often collect Network Maps from carriers and competitive service > providers, just to be able to find out what are "On-Net" locations for > them... make life much easier in determining where to pickup the service > from rather than having them do the buildout and bring them to where you > are > > Hope this helps. > > Regards > > > > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet& Telecom > 7266 SW 48 Street > Miami, Fl 33155 > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 > Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net > > > On 7/20/2010 6:19 PM, RickG wrote: >> In my previous life as an AT&T Cellular switch manager, we had >> hundreds of T1's& T3's ordered that never came in - yes, I mean >> never. And we practically had a blank check! >> -RickG >> >> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Kristian Hoffmann >> wrote: >> >>> After about a year of getting the same response from AT&T after multiple >>> order requests at different locations across our network, the guy in >>> charge of building out fiber for the region called and said "what in the >>> world are you guys doing?!?" He ended up giving us the location of a >>> few fiber terminals in the area. We found the ones closest to our >>> network, made an agreement with a tenant nearby, and did a wireless PtP >>> to connect it to our network. >>> >>> Moral of the story, we were shooting in the dark until we had an "in" in >>> the right department at AT&T. >>> >>> On a related note, does anyone have an experience with Charter's fiber >>> services? >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kristian Hoffmann >>> System Administrator >>> kh...@fire2wire.com >>> http://www.fire2wire.com >>> >>> Office - 209-543-1800 | Fax - 209-545-1469 | Toll Free - 800-905-FIRE >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 22:33 -0500, Roger Howard wrote: >>> Quick alert to those who are not aware... back when I was running my business on T1 lines, I just assumed that when I was ready, I could order a T3 and upgr
[WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me.
Ping. (Had to) Bob- Still fighting the animal that is Radio Mobile. Why does Radio mobile Hate Me? I should have been a HAM. Maybe it's just bad Karma WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] test
Really? Did it REALLY??? Or it could be a mere misdirection of your perceived reality. The common Epic Fail. Who is to say unless is it indeed you or I. Then again. I am tired from the manual labor or the day and not thinking on par with the rest of the non-learning disabled Homosapien population Never mind. Emily litella. Been a L O N G day. HA! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] test Worked On 7/20/10, Rudolph Worrell wrote: > > > > > > > > > -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] test
Worked 2 On 7/20/10, li...@wave2net.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] test
A ! From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of li...@wave2net.com Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:59 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] test WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] test
Worked On 7/20/10, Rudolph Worrell wrote: > > > > > > > > > -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] test
Okay, I'm ready. My answer is C ! From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rudolph Worrell Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:58 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] test WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] 900Mhz amplification?
Has anyone here dealt with a 900 MHz system causing interference due to being amplified? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] test
WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] test
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Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
To sum it up Location, location, location. :) Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Fred Goldstein Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 7:56 PM To: WISPA General List; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3? At 7/20/2010 06:57 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: >I have been quietly watching this discussion > >I don't claim to be an expert, but being a wire line ISP, let me add / >clarify some thoughts / facts > >T1 / T3 or DS3 / OC3 are all TDM / Legacy services That really shouldn't matter. The price of the equipment needed to generate those services, other than the outside plant cable (glass or copper), has plummeted in recent years. Even OC-48 gear now costs approximately bo diddley. Hence the recurring price for a local, in-city SONET circuit from a Bell is typically about the same as their total capital cost, paid every month or two. The installation cost of the circuit is added to the NRC or TLA so they can't lose. Nice work if you can get it, being an unregulated monopoly in a vital field. >T1, can be extended (long distance) via field repeaters... (T1's are >based on HDSL technology and go about 12000ft from the CO or Repeater.) >T3/DS3 are peeled off OC3 or Sonet (optical) MuxesThese are larger >expensive pieces of equipment that require a lot of power and are fiber fed. The stuff they pulled in the '90s was relatively expensive. Nowadays you can get an OC-3 or OC-12 Adtran or Fujitsu fiber MSPP (line terminal, mux, DACS) for around $10k, depending on the line card count, and it eats one or two amps. Cheap optics can go about 50 miles without amplification. However, the prices Bells charge for Special Access (regulated DS1, DS3) fall into one of two categories. In most metro areas, they are unregulated; the Bell can create its own price list. (SBC/ATT had a 3-year merger condition to lower rates a smidgen; that just expired and most rates have skyrocketed.) In other areas, they're price capped, where the caps are based on 1992's tariffs. Those pre-Internet rates were set when 56 kbps was considered a lightning-fast backbone data circuit. The price per DS0 was supposed to recover the lost toll revenues of leased voice tie lines. It's not based on cost. Did I mention that being a monopoly can be nice work if you can get it? >While all of the legacy TDM services are regulated (i.e the price is >disclosed on a tariff) but the ILEC is allowed to recover build out >costs... these costs are high, in addition, the ILEC's are also aware >that these High Cap transports are used by other Competitors and as >such exercise full discretion on discouraging purchase of these >circuits, by using extra inflated build out costs, and if you agree to >pay that, then the 2nd option they use is extra extra long build out >time schedule... 9 to 12 months easy. Yes, it's how ATT and VZ are putting the squeeze on Sprint, T-Mobile, and their other non-ILEC competitors while favoring their own wireless carriers. Dial tone is a shrinking business; Special Access is making up for it in spades, with typical rates of return over 100%. >... >The most cost effective form of transport that an ISP / WISP can >purchase from a Carrier (ILEC or Cable Co or another type of provider) >would be Ethernet .. >100Meg or Gig E While these are un-regulated services, which means >an ILEC's can exercise their discretion on providing this type of >service to you and I or another Carrier however in many places >(typically office buildings in a metro downtown area) would have >equipment / fiber already installed that they can deliver the service >at that location. In a major city, like say Miami, you can often get Carrier Ethernet from a non-ILEC, into major buildings. But even there, the price into other buildings is very high. Last year I asked Verizon for a quote within Boston. The "on-net" price, where VZB had its own fiber, was very reasonable. But to go across the street to an off-net building, VZB would have to hand off service to VZ Core, who would sell a Special Access DS3 to carry the 10Mbps Ethernet. That was several thousand dollars/month for a local loop. But the vast majority of WISPs are in rural areas, where there are no such choices. That's why Special Access reform is so important. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein "at" ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ---
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
At 7/20/2010 06:57 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: >I have been quietly watching this discussion > >I don't claim to be an expert, but being a wire line ISP, let me add / >clarify some thoughts / facts > >T1 / T3 or DS3 / OC3 are all TDM / Legacy services That really shouldn't matter. The price of the equipment needed to generate those services, other than the outside plant cable (glass or copper), has plummeted in recent years. Even OC-48 gear now costs approximately bo diddley. Hence the recurring price for a local, in-city SONET circuit from a Bell is typically about the same as their total capital cost, paid every month or two. The installation cost of the circuit is added to the NRC or TLA so they can't lose. Nice work if you can get it, being an unregulated monopoly in a vital field. >T1, can be extended (long distance) via field repeaters... (T1's are >based on HDSL technology and go about 12000ft from the CO or Repeater.) >T3/DS3 are peeled off OC3 or Sonet (optical) MuxesThese are larger >expensive pieces of equipment that require a lot of power and are fiber fed. The stuff they pulled in the '90s was relatively expensive. Nowadays you can get an OC-3 or OC-12 Adtran or Fujitsu fiber MSPP (line terminal, mux, DACS) for around $10k, depending on the line card count, and it eats one or two amps. Cheap optics can go about 50 miles without amplification. However, the prices Bells charge for Special Access (regulated DS1, DS3) fall into one of two categories. In most metro areas, they are unregulated; the Bell can create its own price list. (SBC/ATT had a 3-year merger condition to lower rates a smidgen; that just expired and most rates have skyrocketed.) In other areas, they're price capped, where the caps are based on 1992's tariffs. Those pre-Internet rates were set when 56 kbps was considered a lightning-fast backbone data circuit. The price per DS0 was supposed to recover the lost toll revenues of leased voice tie lines. It's not based on cost. Did I mention that being a monopoly can be nice work if you can get it? >While all of the legacy TDM services are regulated (i.e the price is >disclosed on a tariff) but the ILEC is allowed to recover build out >costs... these costs are high, >in addition, the ILEC's are also aware that these High Cap transports >are used by other Competitors and as such exercise full discretion on >discouraging purchase of these circuits, by using extra inflated build >out costs, and if you agree to pay that, then the 2nd option they use is >extra extra long build out time schedule... 9 to 12 months easy. Yes, it's how ATT and VZ are putting the squeeze on Sprint, T-Mobile, and their other non-ILEC competitors while favoring their own wireless carriers. Dial tone is a shrinking business; Special Access is making up for it in spades, with typical rates of return over 100%. >... >The most cost effective form of transport that an ISP / WISP can >purchase from a Carrier (ILEC or Cable Co or another type of provider) >would be Ethernet .. >100Meg or Gig E While these are un-regulated services, which means >an ILEC's can exercise their discretion on providing this type of >service to you and I or another Carrier however in many places >(typically office buildings in a metro downtown area) would have >equipment / fiber already installed that they can deliver the service at >that location. In a major city, like say Miami, you can often get Carrier Ethernet from a non-ILEC, into major buildings. But even there, the price into other buildings is very high. Last year I asked Verizon for a quote within Boston. The "on-net" price, where VZB had its own fiber, was very reasonable. But to go across the street to an off-net building, VZB would have to hand off service to VZ Core, who would sell a Special Access DS3 to carry the 10Mbps Ethernet. That was several thousand dollars/month for a local loop. But the vast majority of WISPs are in rural areas, where there are no such choices. That's why Special Access reform is so important. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein "at" ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
I have been quietly watching this discussion I don't claim to be an expert, but being a wire line ISP, let me add / clarify some thoughts / facts T1 / T3 or DS3 / OC3 are all TDM / Legacy services T1, can be extended (long distance) via field repeaters... (T1's are based on HDSL technology and go about 12000ft from the CO or Repeater.) T3/DS3 are peeled off OC3 or Sonet (optical) MuxesThese are larger expensive pieces of equipment that require a lot of power and are fiber fed. While all of the legacy TDM services are regulated (i.e the price is disclosed on a tariff) but the ILEC is allowed to recover build out costs... these costs are high, in addition, the ILEC's are also aware that these High Cap transports are used by other Competitors and as such exercise full discretion on discouraging purchase of these circuits, by using extra inflated build out costs, and if you agree to pay that, then the 2nd option they use is extra extra long build out time schedule... 9 to 12 months easy. For Enterprise customers, they will do the build at no cost or little cost, but the Enterprise customer also has to provide them with space and power, typically 2-3 racks of space and 20-40 amps of power. Today, the ILEC's are not interested in doing such buildout, unless someone is buying SONET transport from them or a bundle of multiple DS3's / OC'3 combination, and there are a few more if's... The most cost effective form of transport that an ISP / WISP can purchase from a Carrier (ILEC or Cable Co or another type of provider) would be Ethernet .. 100Meg or Gig E While these are un-regulated services, which means an ILEC's can exercise their discretion on providing this type of service to you and I or another Carrier however in many places (typically office buildings in a metro downtown area) would have equipment / fiber already installed that they can deliver the service at that location. These days the local Cable Company who has been doing fiber build outs for their cable plants is also pretty eager to sell IP Transit or Ethernet Transport over the Fiber system.. Most of them are working on a pretty fair means of pricing the fiber service and will not discriminate against service providers... (most of them...) Another often overlooked fiber carrier is the local Power Company. Most power companies have a "Fiber / Network Division" they have been the largest providers of dark fiber for a lot of carriers (including cell carriers, when they cell carriers were not owned by the ILEC and the ILEC would not provide them high speed pipes to the cell towers..). But these folks are normally harder to track down unless they are aggressively selling services... I often collect Network Maps from carriers and competitive service providers, just to be able to find out what are "On-Net" locations for them... make life much easier in determining where to pickup the service from rather than having them do the buildout and bring them to where you are Hope this helps. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet& Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 7/20/2010 6:19 PM, RickG wrote: > In my previous life as an AT&T Cellular switch manager, we had > hundreds of T1's& T3's ordered that never came in - yes, I mean > never. And we practically had a blank check! > -RickG > > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Kristian Hoffmann > wrote: > >> After about a year of getting the same response from AT&T after multiple >> order requests at different locations across our network, the guy in >> charge of building out fiber for the region called and said "what in the >> world are you guys doing?!?" He ended up giving us the location of a >> few fiber terminals in the area. We found the ones closest to our >> network, made an agreement with a tenant nearby, and did a wireless PtP >> to connect it to our network. >> >> Moral of the story, we were shooting in the dark until we had an "in" in >> the right department at AT&T. >> >> On a related note, does anyone have an experience with Charter's fiber >> services? >> >> >> -- >> Kristian Hoffmann >> System Administrator >> kh...@fire2wire.com >> http://www.fire2wire.com >> >> Office - 209-543-1800 | Fax - 209-545-1469 | Toll Free - 800-905-FIRE >> >> >> On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 22:33 -0500, Roger Howard wrote: >> >>> Quick alert to those who are not aware... back when I was running my >>> business on T1 lines, I just assumed that when I was ready, I could >>> order a T3 and upgrade my bandwidth. Not so. >>> >>> Just because you can get a T1 doesn't mean you can get a T3 without >>> huge buildout costs. I was quoted $400,000 dollars to upgrade to a T3. >>> I managed to get around it because otherwise AT&T would have had to >>> install a high count copper line down my road to be able to keep >>> offering POTS service here, so
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
In my previous life as an AT&T Cellular switch manager, we had hundreds of T1's & T3's ordered that never came in - yes, I mean never. And we practically had a blank check! -RickG On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Kristian Hoffmann wrote: > After about a year of getting the same response from AT&T after multiple > order requests at different locations across our network, the guy in > charge of building out fiber for the region called and said "what in the > world are you guys doing?!?" He ended up giving us the location of a > few fiber terminals in the area. We found the ones closest to our > network, made an agreement with a tenant nearby, and did a wireless PtP > to connect it to our network. > > Moral of the story, we were shooting in the dark until we had an "in" in > the right department at AT&T. > > On a related note, does anyone have an experience with Charter's fiber > services? > > > -- > Kristian Hoffmann > System Administrator > kh...@fire2wire.com > http://www.fire2wire.com > > Office - 209-543-1800 | Fax - 209-545-1469 | Toll Free - 800-905-FIRE > > > On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 22:33 -0500, Roger Howard wrote: >> Quick alert to those who are not aware... back when I was running my >> business on T1 lines, I just assumed that when I was ready, I could >> order a T3 and upgrade my bandwidth. Not so. >> >> Just because you can get a T1 doesn't mean you can get a T3 without >> huge buildout costs. I was quoted $400,000 dollars to upgrade to a T3. >> I managed to get around it because otherwise AT&T would have had to >> install a high count copper line down my road to be able to keep >> offering POTS service here, so I got lucky, and had a free install. >> But you may not be that fortunate. >> >> I just thought if I posted this, it might give some people a heads up >> to start planning for more bandwidth when you're coming close to >> needing t3 type capacity. >> >> Thanks, >> Roger >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
Wish I could get that here...100Mbps where I'm at is closer to $8000. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 1:54 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3? 100meg metro e is running 3000.00 here. On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Matt wrote: > Quick alert to those who are not aware... back when I was running my > business on T1 lines, I just assumed that when I was ready, I could > order a T3 and upgrade my bandwidth. Not so. > > Just because you can get a T1 doesn't mean you can get a T3 without > huge buildout costs. I was quoted $400,000 dollars to upgrade to a T3. > I managed to get around it because otherwise AT&T would have had to > install a high count copper line down my road to be able to keep > offering POTS service here, so I got lucky, and had a free install. > But you may not be that fortunate. > > I just thought if I posted this, it might give some people a heads up > to start planning for more bandwidth when you're coming close to > needing t3 type capacity. What are you paying for your DS3? We are nearing the point of moving to OC3's at both locations and the loops are outrageous. This is on AT&T as well. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jeremie Chism TritonDataLink WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
> 100meg metro e is running 3000.00 here. >> What are you paying for your DS3? We are nearing the point of moving >> to OC3's at both locations and the loops are outrageous. This is on >> AT&T as well. >100meg metro e is running 3000.00 here. Ugh, right now paying quite a bit more for 45mbps DS3. Location, location and location. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
100meg metro e is running 3000.00 here. On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Matt wrote: > > Quick alert to those who are not aware... back when I was running my > > business on T1 lines, I just assumed that when I was ready, I could > > order a T3 and upgrade my bandwidth. Not so. > > > > Just because you can get a T1 doesn't mean you can get a T3 without > > huge buildout costs. I was quoted $400,000 dollars to upgrade to a T3. > > I managed to get around it because otherwise AT&T would have had to > > install a high count copper line down my road to be able to keep > > offering POTS service here, so I got lucky, and had a free install. > > But you may not be that fortunate. > > > > I just thought if I posted this, it might give some people a heads up > > to start planning for more bandwidth when you're coming close to > > needing t3 type capacity. > > What are you paying for your DS3? We are nearing the point of moving > to OC3's at both locations and the loops are outrageous. This is on > AT&T as well. > > Matt > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Jeremie Chism TritonDataLink WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
> Quick alert to those who are not aware... back when I was running my > business on T1 lines, I just assumed that when I was ready, I could > order a T3 and upgrade my bandwidth. Not so. > > Just because you can get a T1 doesn't mean you can get a T3 without > huge buildout costs. I was quoted $400,000 dollars to upgrade to a T3. > I managed to get around it because otherwise AT&T would have had to > install a high count copper line down my road to be able to keep > offering POTS service here, so I got lucky, and had a free install. > But you may not be that fortunate. > > I just thought if I posted this, it might give some people a heads up > to start planning for more bandwidth when you're coming close to > needing t3 type capacity. What are you paying for your DS3? We are nearing the point of moving to OC3's at both locations and the loops are outrageous. This is on AT&T as well. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
Very good experience with them here. Best pricing available out in the boondocks of MN. They own the tower where the fiber pop is, so or PtP link on that side is no rent. They do average a short outage every 6 weeks or so for upgrades and such, but the last notice I got was for BGP tables so looks like they finally are installing a ring at this location. My only grip with them is their peering with XO and XO's router has a tendency to start flapping. Anthony Will Broadband Corp Jon Auer wrote: > We used Charter fiber for PTP and Internet Access for a few years, a > few years ago. > It was OK. Way more outages than the SBC DS3 that we had at the time. > (a few hours of planned or unplanned downtime in the middle of the > night every month) > Pricing was far better than SBC. > We dropped them once we built out PTP links to a datacenter with less > expensive bandwidth. > > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Kristian Hoffmann > wrote: > >> After about a year of getting the same response from AT&T after multiple >> order requests at different locations across our network, the guy in >> charge of building out fiber for the region called and said "what in the >> world are you guys doing?!?" He ended up giving us the location of a >> few fiber terminals in the area. We found the ones closest to our >> network, made an agreement with a tenant nearby, and did a wireless PtP >> to connect it to our network. >> >> Moral of the story, we were shooting in the dark until we had an "in" in >> the right department at AT&T. >> >> On a related note, does anyone have an experience with Charter's fiber >> services? >> >> >> -- >> Kristian Hoffmann >> System Administrator >> kh...@fire2wire.com >> http://www.fire2wire.com >> >> Office - 209-543-1800 | Fax - 209-545-1469 | Toll Free - 800-905-FIRE >> >> >> On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 22:33 -0500, Roger Howard wrote: >> >>> Quick alert to those who are not aware... back when I was running my >>> business on T1 lines, I just assumed that when I was ready, I could >>> order a T3 and upgrade my bandwidth. Not so. >>> >>> Just because you can get a T1 doesn't mean you can get a T3 without >>> huge buildout costs. I was quoted $400,000 dollars to upgrade to a T3. >>> I managed to get around it because otherwise AT&T would have had to >>> install a high count copper line down my road to be able to keep >>> offering POTS service here, so I got lucky, and had a free install. >>> But you may not be that fortunate. >>> >>> I just thought if I posted this, it might give some people a heads up >>> to start planning for more bandwidth when you're coming close to >>> needing t3 type capacity. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Roger >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pole-mounted base stations
We get them installed for $300 here. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of jp Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pole-mounted base stations I would check with the electric utility to see if they will do poles and for how much, sometimes it's reasonable. Local electricians will know who the inexpensive pole subcontractors are, as electricians often need poles installed in the course of installing their part of new electrical services. You might even want the electricians to handle the pole installs, any conduit runs (for power to the poles if power is nearby). I would not assume there are electrical outlets everywhere you want them and it's not all low voltage wiring, so some relationship with an electrician may be necessary. I had one experience with a windmill and it wasn't good. It was an older air-x 400. I'm sure newer ones are better, but mine vibrated the tower quite bit, and seized up after a couple months. Solar can work very well if you don't skimp on panel and battery. Most of them attempts you read about are people trying it out, skimping on both battery and panel capacity and they are setting them self up for early trouble. On the other hand, big companies speccing out solar systems will massively overbuild to protect their reputation and sell more stuff. New gear like UBNT and mikrotik uses very little electrical power, making solar more practical than ever. For the wisp stuff, you'll want to either find a qualified local WISP company with long term maintenance in mind. Ocassionally, surges and power issues will break things or cause things to need a power cycle. Lacking that, a computer service shop that is good at networking might be able to maintain it, but I wouldn't suggest a computer service shop for the setup. On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 06:08:35PM -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: > At 7/19/2010 05:53 PM, you wrote: > >Fred: > > > >I have some "poles" on my network. They are hard to climb and service would > >be the only caveats I'd share. Consider windmills. The ones they sell to > >keep ponds aerated are aesthetically pleasing and not too expensive. > > You're right; we'll probably need a bucket truck to do poles, both to > install and service. Are you talking about using wind for power > too? There are few or no local windmills otherwise. Some of the > best relay sites may be off the grid so a wind charger could be > practical. Solar might work but lake-effect snow could be a > problem. Lake-effect wind, on the other hand, would be helpful. > > >Friendly Regards, > > > >Mike > > > >Mike Gilchrist > >Disruptive Technologist > >Advanced Wireless Express > >P.O. Box 255 > >Toledo, IA 52342 > >239.770.6203 > >m...@aweiowa.com > > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >Behalf Of Fred R. Goldstein > >Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 3:24 PM > >To: WISPA General List > >Subject: [WISPA] Pole-mounted base stations > > > >A design I'm working on is in a hilly wooded rural/resort area, not > >farmland. It will need a fair number (perhaps a few dozen) sites to > >cover the planned turf. Each node will need both backhaul (mesh, in > >the loose sense) and access antennas. The obvious place to put these > >is atop utility poles. I think the local electric cooperative will > >cooperate and let us rent pole space. We may however need to put > >additional poles in some places. They seem cheaper than metal towers > >and are less likely to raise the locals' eyebrows. > > > >Does anyone out there have experience with this sort of > >arrangement? We're in the budgeting stage now. I have an idea what > >the radios cost but the installation might be the bigger deal. The > >big engineering firms are more used to fancy cellular and fiber > >installs, not WISP-style radios. So we may also want to bring in > >someone with this kind of WISP experience to do some consulting or > >setup with us too. Thanks. > > > > -- > > Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein "at" ionary.com > > ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ > > +1 617 795 2701 > > > > > > > >--- - > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > >--- - > > > > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > >--- - > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > >--- - > > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
We used Charter fiber for PTP and Internet Access for a few years, a few years ago. It was OK. Way more outages than the SBC DS3 that we had at the time. (a few hours of planned or unplanned downtime in the middle of the night every month) Pricing was far better than SBC. We dropped them once we built out PTP links to a datacenter with less expensive bandwidth. On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Kristian Hoffmann wrote: > After about a year of getting the same response from AT&T after multiple > order requests at different locations across our network, the guy in > charge of building out fiber for the region called and said "what in the > world are you guys doing?!?" He ended up giving us the location of a > few fiber terminals in the area. We found the ones closest to our > network, made an agreement with a tenant nearby, and did a wireless PtP > to connect it to our network. > > Moral of the story, we were shooting in the dark until we had an "in" in > the right department at AT&T. > > On a related note, does anyone have an experience with Charter's fiber > services? > > > -- > Kristian Hoffmann > System Administrator > kh...@fire2wire.com > http://www.fire2wire.com > > Office - 209-543-1800 | Fax - 209-545-1469 | Toll Free - 800-905-FIRE > > > On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 22:33 -0500, Roger Howard wrote: >> Quick alert to those who are not aware... back when I was running my >> business on T1 lines, I just assumed that when I was ready, I could >> order a T3 and upgrade my bandwidth. Not so. >> >> Just because you can get a T1 doesn't mean you can get a T3 without >> huge buildout costs. I was quoted $400,000 dollars to upgrade to a T3. >> I managed to get around it because otherwise AT&T would have had to >> install a high count copper line down my road to be able to keep >> offering POTS service here, so I got lucky, and had a free install. >> But you may not be that fortunate. >> >> I just thought if I posted this, it might give some people a heads up >> to start planning for more bandwidth when you're coming close to >> needing t3 type capacity. >> >> Thanks, >> Roger >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
After about a year of getting the same response from AT&T after multiple order requests at different locations across our network, the guy in charge of building out fiber for the region called and said "what in the world are you guys doing?!?" He ended up giving us the location of a few fiber terminals in the area. We found the ones closest to our network, made an agreement with a tenant nearby, and did a wireless PtP to connect it to our network. Moral of the story, we were shooting in the dark until we had an "in" in the right department at AT&T. On a related note, does anyone have an experience with Charter's fiber services? -- Kristian Hoffmann System Administrator kh...@fire2wire.com http://www.fire2wire.com Office - 209-543-1800 | Fax - 209-545-1469 | Toll Free - 800-905-FIRE On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 22:33 -0500, Roger Howard wrote: > Quick alert to those who are not aware... back when I was running my > business on T1 lines, I just assumed that when I was ready, I could > order a T3 and upgrade my bandwidth. Not so. > > Just because you can get a T1 doesn't mean you can get a T3 without > huge buildout costs. I was quoted $400,000 dollars to upgrade to a T3. > I managed to get around it because otherwise AT&T would have had to > install a high count copper line down my road to be able to keep > offering POTS service here, so I got lucky, and had a free install. > But you may not be that fortunate. > > I just thought if I posted this, it might give some people a heads up > to start planning for more bandwidth when you're coming close to > needing t3 type capacity. > > Thanks, > Roger > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RB411 problem
After a good nights sleep. Managed to upgrade box software. Now working fine Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pole-mounted base stations
I would check with the electric utility to see if they will do poles and for how much, sometimes it's reasonable. Local electricians will know who the inexpensive pole subcontractors are, as electricians often need poles installed in the course of installing their part of new electrical services. You might even want the electricians to handle the pole installs, any conduit runs (for power to the poles if power is nearby). I would not assume there are electrical outlets everywhere you want them and it's not all low voltage wiring, so some relationship with an electrician may be necessary. I had one experience with a windmill and it wasn't good. It was an older air-x 400. I'm sure newer ones are better, but mine vibrated the tower quite bit, and seized up after a couple months. Solar can work very well if you don't skimp on panel and battery. Most of them attempts you read about are people trying it out, skimping on both battery and panel capacity and they are setting them self up for early trouble. On the other hand, big companies speccing out solar systems will massively overbuild to protect their reputation and sell more stuff. New gear like UBNT and mikrotik uses very little electrical power, making solar more practical than ever. For the wisp stuff, you'll want to either find a qualified local WISP company with long term maintenance in mind. Ocassionally, surges and power issues will break things or cause things to need a power cycle. Lacking that, a computer service shop that is good at networking might be able to maintain it, but I wouldn't suggest a computer service shop for the setup. On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 06:08:35PM -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: > At 7/19/2010 05:53 PM, you wrote: > >Fred: > > > >I have some "poles" on my network. They are hard to climb and service would > >be the only caveats I'd share. Consider windmills. The ones they sell to > >keep ponds aerated are aesthetically pleasing and not too expensive. > > You're right; we'll probably need a bucket truck to do poles, both to > install and service. Are you talking about using wind for power > too? There are few or no local windmills otherwise. Some of the > best relay sites may be off the grid so a wind charger could be > practical. Solar might work but lake-effect snow could be a > problem. Lake-effect wind, on the other hand, would be helpful. > > >Friendly Regards, > > > >Mike > > > >Mike Gilchrist > >Disruptive Technologist > >Advanced Wireless Express > >P.O. Box 255 > >Toledo, IA 52342 > >239.770.6203 > >m...@aweiowa.com > > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >Behalf Of Fred R. Goldstein > >Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 3:24 PM > >To: WISPA General List > >Subject: [WISPA] Pole-mounted base stations > > > >A design I'm working on is in a hilly wooded rural/resort area, not > >farmland. It will need a fair number (perhaps a few dozen) sites to > >cover the planned turf. Each node will need both backhaul (mesh, in > >the loose sense) and access antennas. The obvious place to put these > >is atop utility poles. I think the local electric cooperative will > >cooperate and let us rent pole space. We may however need to put > >additional poles in some places. They seem cheaper than metal towers > >and are less likely to raise the locals' eyebrows. > > > >Does anyone out there have experience with this sort of > >arrangement? We're in the budgeting stage now. I have an idea what > >the radios cost but the installation might be the bigger deal. The > >big engineering firms are more used to fancy cellular and fiber > >installs, not WISP-style radios. So we may also want to bring in > >someone with this kind of WISP experience to do some consulting or > >setup with us too. Thanks. > > > > -- > > Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein "at" ionary.com > > ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ > > +1 617 795 2701 > > > > > > > > > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > -- > Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein "at" ionary.com > ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ >
Re: [WISPA] Pole-mounted base stations
We already had the pole. They replaced a boatload of poles that had been in 3 years after being replaced in an ice storm. They upgraded to composite poles along a new stretch of Hwy 30 they are building here. The pole was set for the cost of 2 guys and a truck for 2 hours. Anecdotally, the pole is planted in the farm yard of the foreman of that crew. My deal is with him. Friendly Regards, Mike -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blake Bowers Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 10:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pole-mounted base stations Is that for a set, or a pole and a set? Pole and a set, that is a steal! Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: "Mike" To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pole-mounted base stations > No, but I have friends/customers with really big bucket trucks. They are > tree guys. Also, the local electric utility usually sets my poles. I > have > customers there too. The company charged me $250.00 for a 65 footer a few > months back. > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 5:36 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pole-mounted base stations > > Must not have any lineman friends. ;-) > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > On 7/19/2010 4:53 PM, Mike wrote: >> Fred: >> >> I have some "poles" on my network. They are hard to climb and service > would >> be the only caveats I'd share. Consider windmills. The ones they sell >> to >> keep ponds aerated are aesthetically pleasing and not too expensive. >> >> Friendly Regards, >> >> Mike >> >> Mike Gilchrist >> Disruptive Technologist >> Advanced Wireless Express >> P.O. Box 255 >> Toledo, IA 52342 >> 239.770.6203 >> m...@aweiowa.com >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Fred R. Goldstein >> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 3:24 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: [WISPA] Pole-mounted base stations >> >> A design I'm working on is in a hilly wooded rural/resort area, not >> farmland. It will need a fair number (perhaps a few dozen) sites to >> cover the planned turf. Each node will need both backhaul (mesh, in >> the loose sense) and access antennas. The obvious place to put these >> is atop utility poles. I think the local electric cooperative will >> cooperate and let us rent pole space. We may however need to put >> additional poles in some places. They seem cheaper than metal towers >> and are less likely to raise the locals' eyebrows. >> >> Does anyone out there have experience with this sort of >> arrangement? We're in the budgeting stage now. I have an idea what >> the radios cost but the installation might be the bigger deal. The >> big engineering firms are more used to fancy cellular and fiber >> installs, not WISP-style radios. So we may also want to bring in >> someone with this kind of WISP experience to do some consulting or >> setup with us too. Thanks. >> >>-- >>Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein "at" ionary.com >>ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ >>+1 617 795 2701 >> >> >> >> > >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > > >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > --
