Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Jeff Booher]

FYI Ben, we are finally fixing ( or fixed ) that issue with running as a
service and now have 
A version for oracle. Sorry tranzeo is 00gly :)

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Charles Wyble
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 3:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

This is what I'm looking for. Thank you!!

Ben Wiechman wrote:
> We've looked at several different vendors for WiMAX and have been 
> running Alvarion in 2.5GHz for almost 18 months now. Aperto seems to 
> have a decent RF platform, as does Redline and Alvarion. We had two 
> main issues with
> Aperto: ugly Tranzeo CPE and their EMS. Maybe some things have changed 
> by the EMS was required to configure each base station and MS as it 
> entered the network, however ran only on windows and didn't run as a 
> service. So one clown closing the window and your network was dead in 
> the water. Redline appears to have a solid product as well as does
Alvarion.
> 
> As was stated earlier the biggest reason to look at WiMAX is for 
> differentiated services. If voice or a high quality data play is in 
> your business plan it makes sense. If you are suffering from 
> interference issues, and spectrum is becoming much more polluted 
> everywhere, so 3650 does help in that regard.
> 
> With access to 2.5GHz spectrum for us WiMAX was an option we 
> considered purely for the penetration. The bulk of our subscriber base 
> was only accessible using 900MHz access points, and we quickly outgrew 
> the capacity of the Canopy APs we have been using and also are 
> suffering increasingly from interference from a number of sources: 
> RFID, baby monitors, a couple lingering paging companies, GPS 
> correction for farming, saturation due to excessive numbers of Access 
> POints to try to meet bandwidth demands, etc. We also didn't feel that 
> we would be able to offer services other than basic broadband access 
> across the Canopy platform. The 16e standard is valuable for us due to 
> the penetration provided by MIMO and beamforming that are available 
> within the standard. We could care less about the mobility (and added
overhead) but its hard to get one without the other.
> 
> If you've got clean spectrum and are only looking to deploy basic data 
> access WiMAX probably doesn't make sense. If you have access to 
> licensed spectrum, want to deploy differentiated services, or are 
> looking at 3650 WiMAX may make sense. 16d will have less overhead and 
> less cost: the complexities of the mobile platform are not there, nor 
> do you need additional network components like an ASN-GW, and 
> typically provisioning is greatly simplified. The problem you run into 
> on the 16e side is that every vendor is only thinking about Clearwire 
> and not considering the WISP and the price point a WISP is able to
justify.
> 
> Ben Wiechman
> Wisper High Speed Internet
> 
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Pat O'Connor  wrote:
> 
>> Anybody use Airspan for Wimax?
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand 
>>> experience reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved 
>>> range was a lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 
>>> thing. I think a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm 
>>> trying to get through that and establish technical reasons why one or
the other is superior.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
 So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read 
 up on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
 deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets 
 (wireless local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user 
 wireless they can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of 
 whatever CPE. Wimax directly to the end device doesn't make much 
 sense to me, in most markets and use cases. Obviously if you are 
 supporting a highly mobile workforce (say public sector type stuff)
then it makes a lot more sense.

 It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an 
 un(der)served market, it seems that it would not make sense to 
 deploy standard 802.11 gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this
an accurate assessment?

 One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
 available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to 
 purchase CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get 
 from Best Buy (DSL or Cable modem).

 I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
 Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access 
 it will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.

 So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
 What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and 
 post sales engineering) etc e

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Jeff Booher]

Sadly they are getting low on cash too

Redline is in the same boat.

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Pat O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 3:38 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

Geeze.  Not comforting at all.



Aperto is my first choice now because I believe they use TR-069.  But I
wanted to see if anyone had used Airspan's Macromax product.




Matt Liotta wrote:
>
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/business/epaper/2009/04/20/04
20airspan.html
>
> -Matt
>
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 5:30 PM, Pat O'Connor wrote:
>
>   
>> Anybody use Airspan for Wimax?
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>> 
>>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand  
>>> experience
>>> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
>>> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I  
>>> think
>>> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get  
>>> through
>>> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is  
>>> superior.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
>>>   
 So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to  
 read up
 on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
 deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets  
 (wireless
 local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless  
 they
 can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
 directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
 markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly  
 mobile
 workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more  
 sense.

 It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an  
 un(der)served
 market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard  
 802.11
 gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate  
 assessment?

 One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
 available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to  
 purchase
 CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
 (DSL or Cable modem).

 I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
 Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access  
 it
 will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.

 So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
 What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and  
 post
 sales engineering)
 etc etc.






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--

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Jeff Booher]

Matt,

We have several customers in the market with trials or actually deployed. I
cant help if they all havent gotten their FCC licenses *duck*, or fully
executed in their plans. Remember as well, not EVERYONE uses 3.65ghz, and
many customers use 5.8 or 5.4. 

As far as Tolly marcus being employed by aperto, he does work as a
contractor for Wireless Connections in sales, but is actively engaged in
deploying his networks throughout his focused regions. Its not all however,
3.65ghz. We don't actually make a press release every time we win an
operator account either, nor do any other manufacturers. Additionally, in
3.65ghz, I don't believe alvarion is shipping a fully implemented true "e"
system but rather a modified D system with diversity and MRC. 
 
Remember as well we didn't release 3.650 product until about 6 months after
Redline, so you cant expect there to be a lot out there for you to find in
the FCC database. As well, we have a lot more history, more products, and
actually more carrier customers than Redline does internationally and in the
US. If you would like a list of our US or international customer base, feel
free to hit me off list. 

Finally I find that many operators recommend what they buy: in your case you
bought a bunch of Redline. Most folks would never make a reccmeondation for
another solution esp when they work for a publically traded company, that
would look pretty bad wouldn't it? You have your Bias, and will likely stick
to that. With the same thing in mind, your business model is quite unique in
the market as you sell large PTP connections and not multipoint connections
to small business / consumer. Redline may be a good fit for you then. Please
however don't make any judgements on our product when you have never tested
it, deployed it, received a quotation, or talked to one of our many
customers. 





Jeff Booher
 
Director of Sales, North America
www.apertonet.com
jboo...@apertonet.com
jefftho...@fastmail.fm
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 12:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors


On Apr 22, 2009, at 3:17 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote:

> Matt,
>
> How does what you say in the first paragraph make Aperto not viable?
>
I don't think anything from my first paragraph makes Aperto not viable. I am
not sure I even like the term viable. I wouldn't suggest Aperto or recommend
them as a WiMAX vendor. Of course, I don't have any direct experience with
Aperto's current product line. Therefore, I can't compare and contrast their
offerings to other WiMAX vendors that I do have experience with. Anecdotical
evidence suggests that Aperto is not widely deployed. According to Aperto's
press releases I only see one company mentioned that has deployed their
WiMAX gear in the US. I don't know much about Zing to which the press
release mentions.  
What I do know is that according to ULS they have only been approved to
deploy a single Aperto radio. Further, at WiMAX World last year it seemed
that Zing's CTO was employed by Aperto in sales. Compare this to Redline and
Alvarion, which have lots of approved radios in ULS and multiple US
customers including some large customers.

-Matt




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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Jeff Booher]

All,

 I work for a vendor ( Aperto )  so take this as you will.  Like most
vendors out there there are differences for everything. Veccima is a pico
solution, which means that they are using a wavesat chipset on the base and
CPE, so the major difference between veccima and alvarion and Aperto would
be PPS, QOS, features, throughput, and scalablity. 

Aperto and Redline are pretty close in PPS, and alvarion and veccima are
less, with Airspan and tranzeo having the lowest pps. From a cost
perspective it looks like this:

Pricing

Redline : 1 ( 3 sector base 30k street, cpe 400 ) 
Alvarion: 2 (3 sector base 24k street, cpe 350-400 )  
Airspan 3 ( 3 sector base 22k street, cpe 400-500 )
Aperto: 4 ( 3 sector base 20k street, cpe 280-400 ) 
Veccima: 5 (3 sector  base 17k street, cpe 250-350) 
Tranzeo 6: ( 3 sector base 6k street, cpe 250-350 )  


PPS / # of clients supported realistically
1. Aperto ( 30k pps / sector ) 
2. Redline claims to be in the same range, but I havent verifed this
3. Alvarion ( 4000 pps ) 
4. Veccima ( same range as alvarion ) 
5. airspan ( low ) 
6. Tranzeo ( only supports 30 clients ) 

Throughput: Almost everyone supports around 20mb / sec on a 7mhz channel,
except alvarion which only supports 12mb on a 5mhz channel.

The biggest factors to consider is PPS if you are doing voice or want to
support a high # of subs per tower site, as you are limited to 3 channels in
3.65ghz. Price is a consideration, but the biggest issue with Tranzeo is
they have no sync port on the base station so you could have interference
issues when you try to deploy 3 on a tower ( you need 14mhz seperation if
you don't have sync with wimax ) 

So in conclusion- want a cheap solution to support 30 subs of a single
sector? Tranzeo is a good bet. Want something more carrier class? Redline or
Aperto are a good fit. 

The final consideration is QOS. We recently were selected by a customer
because of this and when they compared EVERYONE here we had by far the most
Stable quality of service, and by far the most networking features. Aperto
also holds several wimax patents in regards to QOS. 

Finally we also have multiple frequenices, like 5.8, 5.4, 4.9, 2.5 solutions
so you wont be tied to one band. I think only Airspan supports 5ghz in
Wimax, except for us. 

Jeff Booher
 
Director of Sales, North America
www.apertonet.com
jboo...@apertonet.com
jefftho...@fastmail.fm
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.


 


 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Christopher Hair
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:58 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

We're also looking to deploy Wimax at a couple of our tower locations to
provide higher bandwidth to business customers and take a load off some of
our 900 APs. One vendor we are looking at is Vecima Networks. Anyone out
there using VistaMAX 3.65 GHz from Vecima. I would be very interested in
some real world experiences with this vendor. Pro and cons...

Thanks in Advance

Chris




What he said. :)

Seriously I'm interested in actual experiences. Not moans and gripes and arm
chair speculation. I'm very interested in deploying Wimax technology and
want real world information and actual operator feedback.

Michael Baird wrote:
> Matt,
> 
> I appreciate your perspective, but I've already read through the 
> archives and with Wimax technology what was valid yesterday might not 
> be valid today. I'm not interested in a holy war, we are certainly 
> going to deploy Wimax in the near future, I just want to set 
> expectations properly before we are mounting the gear on the tower, 
> and reading marketing info from Alverion/Tranzeo/Aperto certainly 
> doesn't help clear up the differences and advantages to the technology.
> 
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with 
>> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the 
>> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this 
>> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it 
>> and think the technology is actually different and better than what 
>> else is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is 
>> overpriced and not particularly interesting.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
>>> Certainly good technology contri

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Jeff Booher]

Folks, 

IMHO, It really comes down to a cost benefit analysis.

So an 802.11 or canopy system might run you a lot less CAPEX, but it carries
more OPEX. 

So if in a given tower site you pay 200 / mo per antenna deployed on a
tower, wimax might be cheaper than a lower system that cannot scale to say,
100-250 subscribers effectively. In addition to backhaul costs if you go
carrier class. 

So lets break down the real costs:

Cell radius= 30km
Wimax Sector, carrier class: 7,500 ( 20k ) on a lease of 36 months, 750 per
month
PTP licensed radio: 12,000 on a lease of 36 months, 500 per month.
Cost per subscriber: 299 (150 after install paid by customer )
ARPU per subscriber: 60 ( voice + data package ) 
Lease per tower, 3 sectors+ backhaul and : 1000
Total subscriber count per tower: 500 ( 5 month build out, 100 subs per mo )


Calculate it out and you show 270k in annualized revenue for 1 tower site,
that can easily support this model for a basic internet plus phone service
with no hiccups, and likely still have capacity left up to 750 subs on 3
sectors. Yes the rules of oversubscription apply, you cant sell 750 business
grade circuits. The point is for a TCO, that's one tower site to cover a
20km radius, meaning less leases per month of 1k or more, so isntead of 4
tower sites to cover this area ( and pay 4k per month )

If you are just calculating your break point on your tower costs, you break
even at a 100 subs per month click, at 3 months in. On your subscriber
stations, if you carry the cost, it takes 6 months per subscriber. However
on a 12 month basis you are @ 270k with 170k in cost, or 100k in profit. 

MOT canopy example

Cell radius= 10km
Cascade networks canopy system: 3 per tower, 9 sectors: 2500 x 9 = 20,000 
PTP licensed radio: 48,000 on a lease of 36 months, 3000 per month.
Cost per subscriber: 250 (150 after install paid by customer )
ARPU per subscriber: 30-  data only package 
Lease per tower, 3 sectors+ backhaul and : 1000
Total subscriber count per tower: 150 ( 5 month build out, 100 subs per mo )

Tower sites: 3

Revenue per MO @ 500 subscribers 15,000. ( 150k a year in revenue ) 


So since you cant really effectively provide carrier class voice you sell
only data.

To cover the same area with 1 tower it takes you 3 towers which triples your
OPEX for towers and triples the # of base stations needed, as well as
triples the backhaul costs, while impacting where you are with your revenue.


-

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:02 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with the
gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the threads
quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this mailing list. To
summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and think the technology
is actually different and better than what else is out there. The people who
don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced and not particularly interesting.

-Matt

On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:

> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
> Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my 
> primary goal.
>
>
> Michael Baird wrote:
>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand 
>> experience reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved 
>> range was a lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 
>> thing. I think a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm 
>> trying to get through that and establish technical reasons why one or 
>> the other is superior.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read 
>>> up on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
>>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets 
>>> (wireless local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user 
>>> wireless they can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of 
>>> whatever CPE. Wimax directly to the end device doesn't make much 
>>> sense to me, in most markets and use cases. Obviously if you are 
>>> supporting a highly mobile workforce (say public sector type stuff) 
>>> then it makes a lot more sense.
>>>
>>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an 
>>> un(der)served market, it seems that it would not make sense to 
>>> deploy standard
>>> 802.11
>>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate 
>>> assessment?
>>>
>>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
>>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to 
>>> purchase CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from 
>>> Best Buy (DSL or Cable modem).
>>>
>>> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
>>> Southern California), but it's been sl

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

[Jeff Booher]

 world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
>>>>world?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-
>>>>Mike Hammett
>>>>Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>http://www.ics-il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>From: "Kevin Suitor" 
>>>>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>To: "WISPA General List" 
>>>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>>
>>>>> We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with
>>>>hundreds
>>>>> of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink
>>>>and
>>>>> some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
>>>>> downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
>>>>> sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.
>>>>>
>>>>> The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
>>>>> wireless networking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>>>On
>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
>>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>>>
>>>>> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
>>>>> WiMAX
>>>>> AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> From: "Jeff Booher" 
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
>>>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>>>>>> station,
>>>>>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
>>boun...@wispa.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>>>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>>>>>> marlon
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>>>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>>>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>>>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
>>boun...@wispa.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

[Jeff Booher]

Mike,

This once again is not an apples to apples argument but rather apples to
rutabega. Still fruit, but very different fruit :)

Correct the per AP bandwidth would be higher. However, try loading an
802.11x system with 100 subscribers. It will choke and the end user
experience will be very bad. It would choke not from bandwidth, but from
simple issues with the scheduler.  I don't know of a single 802.11 based
system that loads well to 100 plus subscriber stations. 

Considering Wimax can support these sort of subscriber totals, per sector in
reality, from a spectral efficency standpoint, in 5.8ghz, on ONE tower you
can support something in the neighboorhood of 240mb/sec in total base
station capacity. ( 34 sectors/120mhz ). So yes, you cant sell many 6/6
pipes off this base station, but you can sell a heck of a lot of 1.5/1.5 mb
pipes ( probably around 2400 subscribers ) FROM one tower location. 

Not to mention the stablity of Wimax, which is a lot more stable in
modulation, error rate, latencythat it can support many many voice over
ip connections. ( our product can support over 300 concurrent calls per
sector ). Also im completely certain that by using a wider RF channel you
increase the required CINR to achieve full modulation, while reducing your
effective range. Wimax has an effective LOS Range @ peak modulation in
5.8ghz of 10 miles plus. 

So yes its expensive. But it definitely beats legacy systems in many
different areas. What good is 300mb in throughput if you can only go 2 miles
with it and the probability of interference is extremely high? On a 7mhz
channel you can easily find open spectrum. I understand the business case
issues with Wimax, and Aperto is probably one of the very few companies that
is sensitive to this issue and is working diligently to find solutions that
can meet customer needs, so that a residential business case can be met. We
know that most customers can't afford a 20 month payback, there is no
arugment there. 

Best Regards,

_

Jeff Booher

Sales Director, North America
www.apertonet.com




-


 

-Original Message-
From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us [mailto:rea...@muddyfrogwater.us] 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:34 PM
To: jefftho...@fastmail.fm; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Sheesh.   How many times must this misinformation be posted before the snake

oil gets poured down the drain?

The better MAC allows you to use a very high percentage of transmission time
for actual data throughput, and it manages spreading bandwidth nicely among 
the oversubscribed.   HOWEVER...

If you built a 300mbit 802.11 PTMP system, you'd get about 120 total
throughput.

This means you're using massive amounts of spectrum, but the actual 
throughput would be higher than ANY WIMAX setup to date.   This snake oil 
about the MAC supposedly violating physics and putting 36mbit through an 18 
mbit pipe is nonsense.802.11 sucks because the MAC wastes well over 50% 
of the airtime doing nothing at all, has absolutely no means of managing 
bandwidth use or dividing use among the users.   However, REAL THROUGHPUT IS

REAL THROUGHPUT.

If you have an 18 mbit WIMAX you can support 3 clients consuming a little
less than 6 each.

Add client #4 asking for 6mbit and the the other three MUST LOSE BANDWIDTH 
TO FEED IT.   Get it?  So, instead of just under 6 each, if they're all 
equal priority, all 4 get about 4.   Duhh.  That's it.   You cannot violate 
physics.

The MAC allows greater efficiency concerning airtime and modulation types
improve throughput vs spectrum consumption.

NOTHING VIOLATES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.

You cannot get 36 through an 18 knothole.   Period.

 You guys are all WAY smarter than this, and it's about time the hype based 
on comparison of RADIO DATA RATES gets chucked down the toilet.   None of us

operate that way, and none of care a whit about radio data rates.   We're 
all about real throughput and good management of our our required business
model of oversubscription.







----- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Booher" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> Mike,
>
> It absolutely has nothing to do with throughput. It has to do with the
> scheduling mechanism of the MAC. The reason why 802.11x networks cant 
> scale
> like this is the listen before talk protocol. Even basic polling doesn't
> work because the more subs you add, the more latency you add to the 
> network.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:34 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

[Jeff Booher]

Mike,

There is nothing fancy about a switched MAC vs a polled or listen before
talk mac. That has very little to do with QOS as much is does with utlizing
the pipe appropriately. In a polled system the latency increases with the #
of subscriber stations, same with a listen before talk.In a wimax system,
the mean latency and customer experience remains the same whether or not
there are 30 subs on an AP or 100. Why? Because an inactive subscriber is
not polled, and active subscribers are given time slots to transmit /
receive on a msec basis. 

-

Jeff
  

-Original Message-
From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us [mailto:rea...@muddyfrogwater.us] 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:24 PM
To: jefftho...@fastmail.fm; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Many of us can't get away with that.  We have to make sure that there's
actually bandwidth, not a fancy, 'managed' version of severe
oversubscription.







- Original Message -
From: "Jeff Booher" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> Mike,
>
> Many Wimax manufacturers have many operators who have more than 100 subs 
> per
> AP. Our solution supports up to 30k pps, so it can most defintely scale to
> this level.
>
> The Wimax mac was designed for this, bandwidth aside.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:20 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX
> AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Jeff Booher" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>> station,
>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>
>> -
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>
>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>
>>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>>
>>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
>>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>>
>>> Take care leon
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>>> I'm looking into this too.
>>>>
>>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
>>>> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
>>>> that tower
>>>>
>>>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>>>> marlon
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message -
>>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA General
>>> List"
>>>> 
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Fellow operators:
>>>>>
>>>>> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any updates on experiences with:
>>>>>

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

[Jeff Booher]

Mike,

It absolutely has nothing to do with throughput. It has to do with the
scheduling mechanism of the MAC. The reason why 802.11x networks cant scale
like this is the listen before talk protocol. Even basic polling doesn't
work because the more subs you add, the more latency you add to the network.

-

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:34 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having enough
bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and
in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 megabit.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Gino Villarini" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a 
> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Jeff Booher" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
>> station, that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>
>> -
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>
>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>
>>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>>
>>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
> the
>>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>>
>>> Take care leon
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>>> I'm looking into this too.
>>>>
>>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector 
>>>> install at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to 
>>>> even see that tower
>>>>
>>>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>>>> marlon
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message -
>>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
> General
>>> List"
>>>> 
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Fellow operators:
>>>>>
>>>>> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any updates on experiences with:
>>>>>
>>>>> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, 
>>>>> Airspan ???
>>>>>
>>>>

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

[Jeff Booher]

Mike,

Many Wimax manufacturers have many operators who have more than 100 subs per
AP. Our solution supports up to 30k pps, so it can most defintely scale to
this level. 

The Wimax mac was designed for this, bandwidth aside. 

-

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:20 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX
AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Jeff Booher" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
> station,
> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>
> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>
>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>
>> Take care leon
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>> I'm looking into this too.
>>>
>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
>>> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
>>> that tower
>>>
>>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA General
>> List"
>>> 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Fellow operators:
>>>>
>>>> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>>>>
>>>> Any updates on experiences with:
>>>>
>>>> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
>>>> Airspan ???
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>

> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

[Jeff Booher]

Biggest problem with using a 3 sector configuration on tranzeo is they have
no snyc, and because 
You only have 25mhz to play with, you end up seeing RF issues due to needing
at least 14mhz
Of seperation without snyc.

-

Jeff
 

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Richey
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:52 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

The APs are around $1600-1700 and CPEs are in the $250-300 ballpark. The
AP will handle 30 subs and they have a BAM/PRIZIM type server you can use to
provision SMs or you can do it the old way.Their thought is once you hit
90 users with 3 sectors you will probably be ready to upgrade to a bigger
base station.

 

Richey

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 

How much is the tranzeo stuff going for?  AP and CPE?

Gino Villarini wrote: 

Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
 
Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp 
 
 
Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the UBNT
stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
 
Take care leon
 
Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
  

I'm looking into this too.
 
So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install at
$20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that
tower
 
Anyone have any better ideas?
marlon
 
- Original Message -
From: "Gino Villarini"   
To: "Motorola Canopy User Group"  
; "WISPA General


List" 
  

  
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 
  


Fellow operators:
 
Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
 
Any updates on experiences with:
 
Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan ???
 
 
Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

  

 
 


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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

[Jeff Booher]

It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base station,
that only supports 30 subscribers. 

-

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Gino Villarini" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>
> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>
> Take care leon
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> I'm looking into this too.
>>
>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
>> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
>> that tower
>>
>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA General
> List"
>> 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Fellow operators:
>>>
>>> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>>>
>>> Any updates on experiences with:
>>>
>>> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
>>> Airspan ???
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Anybody use Aperto for 3.65GHz? I'd like to know whatyouthink.

[Jeff Booher]

Marlon,

What are you talking about? Our product is very reliable, and we have many
very happy customers ( including some very large ones such as towerstream ) 

-

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 10:00 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anybody use Aperto for 3.65GHz? I'd like to know
whatyouthink.

I have heard NOTHING good about their product's reliability.  I have one
consulting customer that's still using them, his failure rates are shocking.

I'd have dumped them years ago.

Unless this changes I'd stay far far away from Aperto.  (I've been to the
Ca. offices and like the people that run the show, but that doesn't help my
customers at all.)

marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Pat O'Connor" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:29 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Anybody use Aperto for 3.65GHz? I'd like to know what
youthink.


> We're looking to deploy 3.65GHz this year in a couple of different 
> locations because of interference issues.  So far they have the most 
> compelling price point.  I'd like to know how well it works in the 
> field.  All opinions appreciated.  Hit me off list if you want to.\
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pat
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] survey

[Jeff Booher]

All-

I don't quite get what the major "change" we are seeing here is. Patrick was
an exec at one major wimax and pre wimax company ( alvarion ) and now he
works for Aperto, another major wimax and pre wimax company. 

And as much as some people may not like to debate, I personally love a good
solid debate where people trade facts and argue their positions. Ultimately
that leads to education of everyone who participates. I look forward to many
more debates on here. :)






-

Jeff
Aperto
206.455.4950 mobile

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:38 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey

Yeah, amazing how stuff changes...

I once recall having a list monopolizing debate with Patrick that went on to
the point of rousing a mob...

Patrick arguing that residential wireless could not be done, and me arguing 
that without residential, wireless was doomed.   I wonder if he remembers...

Just FYI, Patrick.   You were so determined that residential wireless could 
not be done that I went out and did it.

Just wanted you to know that :)






- Original Message -
From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey


> After, God  it seems like forever  at least since I started 
> looking
> into being a WISP Patrick was with Alvarion...  now to see Aperto 
> it's
> so weird.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:48 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey
>
>> Obviously I am commenting late, so sorry for that, but what jumps out
>> for me is that this shows that "list" participation is weighted towards
>> Canopy users. Canopy users have built a vibrant community of operators,
>> especially under the august stewardship and commitment of Chuck from the
>> operator side. That said, I suspect of non-802.11 and non-WiMAX type
>> networks, Motorola enjoys a MAJORITY share.
>>
>> For sure though I can tell you as an ex-Alvarion person, that most
>> Alvarion users are not active list participants, so the count of
>> subscribers and concurrent single digit percentages are meaningless.
>>
>> In other words, this survey is not a reflection of reality of the
>> market, only the reality of this set of lists.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Patrick
>> Aperto
>> 813.426.4230 mobile
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:47 PM
>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: [WISPA] survey
>>
>>  Brand # Subs % By Subs
>>  Redline 286 0.56%
>>  Alvarion 938 1.83%
>>  Ubiquity 960 1.88%
>>  Canopy 32933 64.39%
>>  Other 4345 8.49%
>>  Trango 8217 16.06%
>>  MT 3471 6.79%
>>  Total 51150 100.00%
>>
>>  Responses 47
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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>
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>


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Re: [WISPA] Where is JAB when we need them

[Jeff Booher]

Oh right add another 70,000 subs to canopy's #'S

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:57 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WISPA] Where is JAB when we need them

  Redline 286 0.334058 
  Alvarion 4027 4.70367 
  Ubiquity 1728 2.018361 
  Canopy 38583 45.06623 
  Other 7816 9.129348 
  Trango 11252 13.14271 
  Tranzeo 10029 11.71421 
  MT 11893 13.89142 
  Total 85614 100 
   
  Responses 85 




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Re: [WISPA] WiMax delays?

[Jeff Booher]

Also a small channel width ensures you have a better receive sensitivity.


 

-Original Message-
From: Mike Hammett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 10:43 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WiMax delays?

It needs a small channel width, or it uses a small channel width because
that's the requirement for overseas, so we're stuck with it.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Jeff Booher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 11:19 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Cc: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WiMax delays?

> Travis,
>
> Im a little late responding to this thread, but I will put my two cents 
> in.
> Currently there are products on the market that are shipping that deliver
> 15-20mb per AP but you wont find much in the wimax arena that will ever
> deliver more than 50 mb, due to the need to use a small channel width, 
> even
> with 2X2 mimo. That being said, it doesnt mean that Wimax products are not
> at a level where you cannot support 250 subscribers per sector. On a 
> legacy
> wifi product such as VL, Trango, etc the products do not have the benefits
> of the Wimax mac.
>
> At any rate, what you are talking about is the availablity of a Pico
> product, not a micro or macro. Companies like ours are working on PICO
> products but expect most to deliver Pico in 802.16e, and later on in the
> next year and a half or so.
>
> -
>
> Jeff Booher
>
> Director of Sales, North America
> www.apertonet.com <http://www.apertonet.com/>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 24/7: 206-455-4950
>
> This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or 
> work
> product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance 
> or
> distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. 
> If
> you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete 
> all
> copies.
>
>
>
>  _
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 8:33 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] WiMax delays?
>
>
> I don't think this is entirely true. For us, it becomes a "value" 
> decision.
> If there was an AP that would deliver 100Mbps and could support 1000
> subscribers, I would be willing to pay $10,000+ for it today. There is a
> real "gap" in the products that are available on the market:
>
> At the bottom = Linksys
> Next = Mikrotik
> Next = Trango, Canopy, etc
> 
> Top = licensed Alvarion, Redline, etc.
>
> This is the market that is not being served. There are plenty of backhaul
> solutions, router solutions, etc. but the very last mile AP/CPE for the
> "higher end" is what is missing. I'm not interested in paying $50,000 per
> base station (Alvarion WiMax), but I don't want to pay $10,000 for a
> solution that uses an entire band (Canopy 5700 for example) and only
> delivers 84Mbps of total capacity (when even lower end products can 
> deliver
> 2x or 3x that in the same spectrum).
>
> So, again, why hasn't there been an evolution of products the last 2-3
> years? Did everyone stop normal R&D to focus on WiMax?
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Butch Evans wrote:
>
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Where has the innovation in the last few years gone?
>
>
>
>
>
> How many in this industry bitch and moan over the cost of gear?  How
>
> many would purchase an AP at under $200 and STILL think that's too
>
> high?  How many in this industry are willing to purchase something
>
> JUST BECAUSE IT IS CHEAPER?  Look at how many people in this
>
> industry are using DSL as a transport to the Internet.
>
>
>
> Answer THOSE questions and you'll begin the see the answer to YOUR
>
> question.  The problem isn't just "us".  The "big boys" have been
>
> busy trying to drive pricing levels down in an attempt to "buy the
>
> market".  And too many of "us" have decided that we have to compete
>
> on price alone, so we found ways to cut cost by buying cheaper gear
>
> (there are 2 WISPs within a 30 minute drive of my house that are
>
> selling service using Linksys gear for APs).  There is at least 3
>
> WISPs whose service would cover my house that have DSL for their
>
> internet connection.  I'm not condemming the practice as much as I
>
> am att

Re: [WISPA] WiMax delays?

[Jeff Booher]

Travis,
 
Im a little late responding to this thread, but I will put my two cents in.
Currently there are products on the market that are shipping that deliver
15-20mb per AP but you wont find much in the wimax arena that will ever
deliver more than 50 mb, due to the need to use a small channel width, even
with 2X2 mimo. That being said, it doesnt mean that Wimax products are not
at a level where you cannot support 250 subscribers per sector. On a legacy
wifi product such as VL, Trango, etc the products do not have the benefits
of the Wimax mac. 
 
At any rate, what you are talking about is the availablity of a Pico
product, not a micro or macro. Companies like ours are working on PICO
products but expect most to deliver Pico in 802.16e, and later on in the
next year and a half or so.
 
-
 
Jeff Booher
 
Director of Sales, North America
www.apertonet.com <http://www.apertonet.com/> 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.
 
 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 8:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] WiMax delays?


I don't think this is entirely true. For us, it becomes a "value" decision.
If there was an AP that would deliver 100Mbps and could support 1000
subscribers, I would be willing to pay $10,000+ for it today. There is a
real "gap" in the products that are available on the market:

At the bottom = Linksys 
Next = Mikrotik
Next = Trango, Canopy, etc

Top = licensed Alvarion, Redline, etc.

This is the market that is not being served. There are plenty of backhaul
solutions, router solutions, etc. but the very last mile AP/CPE for the
"higher end" is what is missing. I'm not interested in paying $50,000 per
base station (Alvarion WiMax), but I don't want to pay $10,000 for a
solution that uses an entire band (Canopy 5700 for example) and only
delivers 84Mbps of total capacity (when even lower end products can deliver
2x or 3x that in the same spectrum).

So, again, why hasn't there been an evolution of products the last 2-3
years? Did everyone stop normal R&D to focus on WiMax?

Travis
Microserv

Butch Evans wrote: 

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Mike Hammett wrote:



  

Where has the innovation in the last few years gone?





How many in this industry bitch and moan over the cost of gear?  How 

many would purchase an AP at under $200 and STILL think that's too 

high?  How many in this industry are willing to purchase something 

JUST BECAUSE IT IS CHEAPER?  Look at how many people in this 

industry are using DSL as a transport to the Internet.



Answer THOSE questions and you'll begin the see the answer to YOUR 

question.  The problem isn't just "us".  The "big boys" have been 

busy trying to drive pricing levels down in an attempt to "buy the 

market".  And too many of "us" have decided that we have to compete 

on price alone, so we found ways to cut cost by buying cheaper gear 

(there are 2 WISPs within a 30 minute drive of my house that are 

selling service using Linksys gear for APs).  There is at least 3 

WISPs whose service would cover my house that have DSL for their 

internet connection.  I'm not condemming the practice as much as I 

am attempting to illustrate WHY the innovation is leaving the 

industry.  It is NOT gone.  It just doesn't exist in the price range 

that MOST people are willing to pay (WISPs, that is).



  




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Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti 3.65

[Jeff Booher]

Isnt a 40mhz channel in 3.65ghz against the rules?
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Nash
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 4:03 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti 3.65

I really can't remember about throughput.  This was really what the board
would do, not the card.  We felt it was the max that the board/card/snr
could give which was encouraging as this is on a site that we've had a TON
of 5 GHz noise.  Our specific application had a much lower need than the
test results gave, so that's why I don't remember.  In other words, the
spectrum was clean, and nice for a change.

It was a StarOS WAR4-WP188 board, 64MB with 8 MB flash and 533MHz IXP-425
CPU.

Nice boards.  We have a link that sits at -50 and its max on a 40MHz channel
is 70mbps aggregate.

- Original Message -
From: "Matt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti 3.65


>> Using StarOS, we have tested them with 3.5GHz antennas.  They got what we
>> would expect them to get with respect to SNR, with a slight loss due to 
>> the
>> 3.5GHz antennas.
>>
>> Two issues...
>>
>> 1.  We purchased some of the original XR3's, but then they came out with 
>> the
>> new version XR3 - 3.7 which had different center frequencies so they 
>> would
>> not associate with the original XR3 that we had at the AP.
>>
>> 2.  We have had 3 of the XR3 - 3.7 radios that have either lost a
>> significant amount of signal from the AP, or stopped associating 
>> altogether.
>> On the StarOS forums, there was some talk of this be attirbuted to non
>> grounding thet antennas.  But as it stands, I think we had 3 bad radios,
>> then the 3 that we originally bought that are useless now due to the 
>> center
>> frequency issue.  At $260 per radio, that's alot of $$ in useless radios.
>
> What kind of throughput are you getting?
>
> Matt
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] 3.65

[Jeff Booher]

All,

For further clarification- our solution has different hardware and software
that is manufactured for us by tranzeo. It is not the same solution they
sell as their own.


Jeff Booher
 
Director of Sales, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Holdenrid
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 11:42 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65

Redline, APerto, and Vecima are offering a full solution with base station
and CPE (built by Tranzeo)  

Tranzeo has the Pico solution that is 100% Tranzeo AP and CPE. 
The PICO is lower cost and is limited to a low number of CPE's to AP's.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:59 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65

Do you mean the CPE?  They have a 5.8 pico base station, but only 3.65
CPE/SU from what I've been told by Tranzeo.  Something to do with their
choice of chipset.

Gino Villarini wrote:
> Tranzeo just got their AP certified, not the Aperto
>
>  
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 
>
> 
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:43 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65
>
>  
>
> Tranzeo and Aperto are operating in a partnership. Their base station 
> was around $8k when I checked about 30 days ago.
>
> Travis
>
>
> Gino Villarini wrote: 
>
> Tranzeo
> Airspan
> Vecima
>  
> All 802.16d
>  
> Gino A. Villarini
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:15 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65
>  
> Like?
>  
> Gino Villarini wrote:
>   
>
>   There are some below $5k BSU solutions on the market
>
>
>
>   Gino A. Villarini 
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>   Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
>   tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 
>
>   
>
>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   
>
> On
>   
>
>   Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>   Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:30 AM
>   To: WISPA General List
>   Subject: [WISPA] 3.65
>
>
>
>   Matt,
>
>   I agree. We are looking at the same thing... putting up some 3.65ghz
>   AP's on our "bigger" towers and moving heavy usage customers to
that.
>   However, until base stations are less than $8k, the WiMax people can
>   keep spending money on advertising, trade-shows, etc. telling us how
>   great they are, I'm not going to buy.
>
>   When you can buy a licensed microwave radio link for $8k (less
>   antennas), and you know the company is making money, there is no
>   
>
> reason
>   
>
>   3.65ghz base stations have to be $8k+.
>
>   Hopefully at some point, they will wake up and realize there is an
>   entire market they are missing.
>
>   Travis
>   Microserv
>
>   Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: 
>
>   I'm with Travis on this, with the exception of using StarOS instead 
> of
>   
>
>  
>   
>
>   Mikrotik.   It is nice to have a set of standard, mature tools
> such as
>   
>
>  
>   
>
>   radius, cbq/iptable rules and standard, non-vendor specific hardware
>   
>
> to 
>   
>
>   work with instead of having to use a limited, proprietary system
>   
>
> limited
>   
>
>   to a single vendor.  I've deployed/consulted on 802.11 a/b/g
> networks 
>   representing 8000+ CPE units and it can be made to work just
> fine as 
>   long as it is managed properly.   Travis is a pro, and he has
> the 
>   experience to design his network in such a way as to 

Re: [WISPA] 3.65

[Jeff Booher]

Tranzeo did NOT get their AP certified, only their CPE for 3.65 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:30 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65

Tranzeo just got their AP certified, not the Aperto 

 

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:43 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65

 

Tranzeo and Aperto are operating in a partnership. Their base station was
around $8k when I checked about 30 days ago.

Travis


Gino Villarini wrote: 

Tranzeo
Airspan
Vecima 
 
All 802.16d 
 
Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65
 
Like?
 
Gino Villarini wrote:
  

There are some below $5k BSU solutions on the market
 
 
 
Gino A. Villarini 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 
 

 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On
  

Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:30 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 3.65
 
 
 
Matt,
 
I agree. We are looking at the same thing... putting up some 3.65ghz
AP's on our "bigger" towers and moving heavy usage customers to
that.
However, until base stations are less than $8k, the WiMax people can
keep spending money on advertising, trade-shows, etc. telling us how
great they are, I'm not going to buy.
 
When you can buy a licensed microwave radio link for $8k (less
antennas), and you know the company is making money, there is no


reason
  

3.65ghz base stations have to be $8k+.
 
Hopefully at some point, they will wake up and realize there is an
entire market they are missing.
 
Travis
Microserv
 
Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: 
 
I'm with Travis on this, with the exception of using StarOS instead
of


 
  

Mikrotik.   It is nice to have a set of standard, mature tools
such as


 
  

radius, cbq/iptable rules and standard, non-vendor specific hardware


to 
  

work with instead of having to use a limited, proprietary system


limited
  

to a single vendor.  I've deployed/consulted on 802.11 a/b/g
networks 
representing 8000+ CPE units and it can be made to work just fine as

long as it is managed properly.   Travis is a pro, and he has
the 
experience to design his network in such a way as to maximize the 
performance of his equipment.   There are many others out there
having


 
  

the same success. 
 
FWIW, I believe the most logical next step is to start moving heavy 
usage customers over to 3.65 WiMAX gear starting next spring.
I


think 
  

we are near the threshold of what is going to be possible with 
unlicensed equipment - barring some kind of amazing
breakthrough.   I 
foresee a need to deploy smaller and smaller cells to maintain the 
desired performance level.  It helps to have 10mhz channel sizes

available to maximize the utilization of existing spectrum, but even

that is starting to get awfully crowded.   Whitespaces sure
would


help.
  

 
I spent the last two years putting up 802.11a based APs across my


entire
  

service area and migrating customers from 2.4 to them to get the


higher 
  

ARPU from faster speeds and VOIP service.   I foresee spending
the


next 
  

two years deploying  licensed backhauls and 3.65 APs starting with
the


 
  

high traffic areas and working out to the fringes.   Its the


neverending
  

story.
 
Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com
 
 
 
Travis Johnson wrote:
  
 
  Hi,
   
  We don't use DHCP. Every single customer gets a real, static IP
address. 
  We also a assign a static IP address to every radio (for
management).
   
  When I posted the question a month ago about how to force an SM
to 

Re: [WISPA] 3.65

[Jeff Booher]

Travis,
 
thats list pricing for a single base station. Airspan is around the same
price as well.  Logic proceeds that they are much less in QTY.
 
Jeff Booher
 
Director of Sales, North America
www.apertonet.com <http://www.apertonet.com/> 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:43 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65


Tranzeo and Aperto are operating in a partnership. Their base station was
around $8k when I checked about 30 days ago.

Travis


Gino Villarini wrote: 

Tranzeo

Airspan

Vecima 



All 802.16d 



Gino A. Villarini

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145



-Original Message-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Travis Johnson

Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:15 PM

To: WISPA General List

Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65



Like?



Gino Villarini wrote:

  

There are some below $5k BSU solutions on the market



 



Gino A. Villarini 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 

tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 







From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On

  

Behalf Of Travis Johnson

Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:30 AM

To: WISPA General List

Subject: [WISPA] 3.65



 



Matt,



I agree. We are looking at the same thing... putting up some 3.65ghz

AP's on our "bigger" towers and moving heavy usage customers to that.

However, until base stations are less than $8k, the WiMax people can

keep spending money on advertising, trade-shows, etc. telling us how

great they are, I'm not going to buy.



When you can buy a licensed microwave radio link for $8k (less

antennas), and you know the company is making money, there is no



reason

  

3.65ghz base stations have to be $8k+.



Hopefully at some point, they will wake up and realize there is an

entire market they are missing.



Travis

Microserv



Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: 



I'm with Travis on this, with the exception of using StarOS instead of





  

Mikrotik.   It is nice to have a set of standard, mature tools such as





  

radius, cbq/iptable rules and standard, non-vendor specific hardware



to 

  

work with instead of having to use a limited, proprietary system



limited

  

to a single vendor.  I've deployed/consulted on 802.11 a/b/g networks 

representing 8000+ CPE units and it can be made to work just fine as 

long as it is managed properly.   Travis is a pro, and he has the 

experience to design his network in such a way as to maximize the 

performance of his equipment.   There are many others out there having





  

the same success. 

 

FWIW, I believe the most logical next step is to start moving heavy 

usage customers over to 3.65 WiMAX gear starting next spring.   I



think 

  

we are near the threshold of what is going to be possible with 

unlicensed equipment - barring some kind of amazing breakthrough.   I 

foresee a need to deploy smaller and smaller cells to maintain the 

desired performance level.  It helps to have 10mhz channel sizes 

available to maximize the utilization of existing spectrum, but even 

that is starting to get awfully crowded.   Whitespaces sure would



help.

  

 

I spent the last two years putting up 802.11a based APs across my



entire

  

service area and migrating customers from 2.4 to them to get the



higher 

  

ARPU from faster speeds and VOIP service.   I foresee spending the



next 

  

two years deploying  licensed backhauls and 3.65 APs starting with the





  

high traffic areas and working out to the fringes.   Its the



neverending

  

story.

 

Matt Larsen

vistabeam.com

 

 

 

Travis Johnson wrote:

  



Hi,

 

We don't use DHCP. Every single customer gets a real, static IP

address. 

We also a assign a static IP address to every radio (for

management).

 

When I posted the question a month ago about how to force an SM

to 

connect to a specific AP on a tower, the only answer was "color

code". 

This isn't really an option, as that means the installer has to

change 

the color code in the field. All of our current radios are setup

and 

ready to connect to ANY tower and ANY AP on that tower without

the 

installer doing anything in the field.

 

And how does first level tech support eve

Re: [WISPA] VoIP deployments?

[Jeff Booher]

Agreed with everything that charles is saying here.

Your network generally needs to support edge device ( cpe )  priortization
and QOS that controls the jitter, packetloss, and latency of a given packet.
Not many solutions in BWA support this very well. PPS is definitely part of
it, but the scheduler is just as important.

 


Jeff Booher
 
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 6:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP deployments?

Mike,

Not trying to sound like a jerk here, but it's not the VoIP...it's your
network Properly deployed...VoIP works fine (however, network construction
standards are MUCH STRICTER than what most data-only WISP networks currently
support)

-Charles


Charles Wu
President
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cell: 773-457-0718 * office: 773-667-4585 x2500

16W235 83rd Street, Suite A, Burr Ridge, IL 60527 * tel: 773.667.4585 fax:
773.326.4641



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 1:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP deployments?

Well, it doesn't run well enough to be a service I'm willing to associate
with my company at this point.  I've done G.711 and T.38 with many
softswitches and many ATAs.  It's too finicky.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message -
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP deployments?


> Fax is a requirement and most certainly can work with VoIP. As we 
> found out T.38 and G711 are mutually exclusive. T.38 is meant to work 
> over G729 as G711 is supposed actually carry faxes successfully.
>
> -Matt
>
> On Aug 10, 2008, at 9:22 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
>> Fax machines don't run over VoIP either.  They just don't, T.38 
>> doesn't really work.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 9:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP deployments?
>>
>>
>>> Businesses cannot run on cell phones.  Nor can fax machines.
>>> Voip is cheaper than cell service.  The quality is better.  People 
>>> like their old numbers and don't want to port them to cell.
>>> Voip does not run out of batteries or fade in and out if you go to 
>>> the basement.  Voip doesn't have the arguable threat of causing you 
>>> brain cancer.  Real telephones are more comfortable to use.  Lots of 
>>> reasons.
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 10:49 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP deployments?
>>>
>>>
>>>> We're just getting started with it.  We're going mostly with
>>>> (keeping
>>>> another company or two in mind if things don't work out for us)
>>>> Netsapians.
>>>> So far they've been good to work with and they have a product that I
>>>> think
>>>> I
>>>> can sell.
>>>>
>>>> I still think, in the end, voip will be about as big as muni
>>>> wifi.  That
>>>> is
>>>> to say, MOST people will go cell phone for voice.  Not voip in any
>>>> form
>>>> from
>>>> any company.  Why do most of us need multiple personal phone
>>>> lines
>>>>
>>>> Businesses will likely be different.  But I'm not sure that the
>>>> price
>>>> wars
>>>> are over.  Doesn't look like there's gonna be much money in MOST
>>>> services
>>>> on
>>>> the internet.  The money for those on this list will continue to be
>>>> transport.
>>>> marlon
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message -
>

Re: [WISPA] He knows what we don't... ???

[Jeff Booher]

He should have tried this 2 years ago before it wasn't common knowledge that
citywide mesh =! Work

 


Jeff Booher
 
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 12:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] He knows what we don't... ???

Here's a guy who is "building" a Muni WiMAX network all by himself.  

<http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2008/08/09/3592867.htm>

Either:

a) This gentleman believes he knows a whole lot more than WISPA members know
(because very few WISPA members are single-handedly building Muni Wi-MAX
networks), or

b) The opposite is true, or

c) Neither of the above. Another journalist is conflating Wi-Fi and WiMAX
(again).


jack

-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting
FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger>
Phone 818-227-4220  Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>







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Re: [WISPA] Sprint and Clearwire

[Jeff Booher]

On the EBS issue-

There are several operators out there who have obtained EBS licenses as
well. It just requires the work and time invested into entering a deal with
your school districts that own the right to the spectrum.

 


Jeff Booher
 
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
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you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John McDowell
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 11:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint and Clearwire

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Matt Liotta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> On Jul 31, 2008, at 1:42 PM, John McDowell wrote:
>
> > Without Sprint and Clearwire, WiMax has no chance at success, which 
> > leaves AT&T and Verizon ( who will come into Rural Markets 
> > eventually) and their LTE plans. To not support Clearwire, is to 
> > support AT&T and Verizon, two companies that will hurt WISPs more in 
> > the long run that Sprint and Clearwire ever will. IMO
> >
> I can't agree with your perspective. WiMAX has already been 
> established internationally. Regardless of how WiMAX does in the US, 
> it will continue to be relevant internationally as a standard.
> Further, many wireless operators (my company included) compete 
> successfully with at&t and Verizon in urban markets today. I don't see 
> how them deploying in rural markets is any different.
>

Sure, but only on a fixed basis. It is nothing compared to the International
cellular market. If you look at the International Mobile WiMax footprint,
its pretty dern small.

When Verizon and AT&T launch their LTE products, I believe you will feel
differently about them.


>
> > Being for or against the merger will not achieve that. This should 
> > be a separate tactic of WISPA, but coupled with support for the 
> > merger.
> >
> I could see that.
>
> > The merger solidifies WiMax's chance for success in America and 
> > abroad and opens up opportunities for WISPs to enter the licensed 
> > arena and to one day offer mobile services on their networks, thus 
> > creating the opportunity for added revenue streams from different 
> > types of service offerings as well as roaming. It also makes for an 
> > attractive exit strategy, if that is anyone's plan.
> >
> I don't see how the merger does that. Any WISP who wants to enter the 
> licensed arena can do so today.


With most EBS licenses gobbled up by Sprint and Clearwire, how can we WISPs
enter that market, aside from EBS Whitespace? And what technology is the ony
threat to LTE? (WiMax)

>
>
> -Matt
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> --
> --
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



--
John M. McDowell
Boonlink Communications
307 Grand Ave NW
Fort Payne, AL 35967
256.844.9932
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.boonlink.com






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Re: [WISPA] Anyone Willing to Speak? Deadline is Sat.

[Jeff Booher]

Would love to do that. Let me know what is needed from our side.
 
 
 
Jeff Booher
 
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com <http://www.apertonet.com/> 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
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you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.
 

  _  

From: John McDowell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 10:47 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone Willing to Speak? Deadline is Sat.


I believe we need a 2.5 ghz opportunity forum.


On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Jeff Booher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:


We would be happy to speak on the 3650 panel, if there are still slots
available, to give a secondary vendor perspective.




Jeff Booher

Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com <http://www.apertonet.com/> 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950

This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
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-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone Willing to Speak? Deadline is Sat.

I think that there should probably be a few more speakers.

The ones listed are good, but it takes a variety to get people to come back.

No one's gonna spend the money that ISPCon costs just to hear the same
things over again.
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "George" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone Willing to Speak? Deadline is Sat.


> Anyone have strong opinions on things they have done to be more
> successful?
>
> Maybe you want to share some of your successful ideas with the others.
> Could be customer satisfaction and support, could be marketing
> techniques, etc.
>
>
> George
>
>
> Peter R. wrote:
>> Well, just 4 more days to go.  Can you spread the word that we are
>> looking for speakers for the WISPA tracks at ISPCON please?
>>
>> http://wikihost.org/wikis/wispa6
>>
>>
>>
>> W1) Wirelss Regulation
>>
>> An update on regulatory issues and your WISP.
>>
>> contacting: Jack Unger, Ask-Wi, Inc. and WISPA
>> contacting: probably Steve Coran
>>
>>
>> W2) Alex here . . This session is basically open.
>> I've labeled it new technologies.
>> Are there any new technologies of interest?
>> Smart radios, gigabit radios, 60 GHz spectrum radios, etc.
>>
>> Speakers:  ???
>>
>> W3) Using Used Equipment
>>
>> WISPs buying used equipment run into a wide variety of issues. Some are
>> commonplace, some are rare, but you need to know about all of them.
>>
>> panel: Matt Larsen
>>
>>
>> W4: Advanced Network Monitoring for WISPs of all Sizes
>>
>> Basic network monitoring is just that, basic. You know what is up and
>> what is down. This advanced session will go beyond these basics and the
>> basics of installing MRTG, Nagios, WhatUpGold etc., and focus more on
>> the specific data that various sized WISPs are collecting about their
>> networks. We will also cover the more important issue of what to do with
>> this data and some of the systems and procedures used to manage this
>> advanced data.Bring your questions there will be plenty of Q&A.
>>
>> Speakers: 
>>
>>
>>
>> W5: Manage Your Network (Don't Let it Manage You)
>>
>> Today's WISPs need to
>> be able to manage all aspects of their business in today's rapidly
>> evolving marketplace with simplified tools. These panelists will show
>> some of the tools they use or have developed to make sure that their
>> business practices are conducted professionally and efficiently. As WISP
>> businesses grow, the need for well documented network and client
>> information is essential for the future success and scalability of their
>> networks.
>>
>> Speakers:  Rick Harnish
>>
>>
>> W6: Avoiding the 50 Most Common Mistakes (that Experienced WISPs Have
>> Already Made)
>>
>> Successful WISP owners are an independent, strong-m

Re: [WISPA] Anyone Willing to Speak? Deadline is Sat.

[Jeff Booher]

We would be happy to speak on the 3650 panel, if there are still slots
available, to give a secondary vendor perspective. 

 


Jeff Booher
 
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone Willing to Speak? Deadline is Sat.

I think that there should probably be a few more speakers.

The ones listed are good, but it takes a variety to get people to come back.

No one's gonna spend the money that ISPCon costs just to hear the same
things over again.
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "George" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone Willing to Speak? Deadline is Sat.


> Anyone have strong opinions on things they have done to be more 
> successful?
>
> Maybe you want to share some of your successful ideas with the others.
> Could be customer satisfaction and support, could be marketing
> techniques, etc.
>
>
> George
>
>
> Peter R. wrote:
>> Well, just 4 more days to go.  Can you spread the word that we are
>> looking for speakers for the WISPA tracks at ISPCON please?
>>
>> http://wikihost.org/wikis/wispa6
>>
>>
>>
>> W1) Wirelss Regulation
>>
>> An update on regulatory issues and your WISP.
>>
>> contacting: Jack Unger, Ask-Wi, Inc. and WISPA
>> contacting: probably Steve Coran
>>
>>
>> W2) Alex here . . This session is basically open.
>> I've labeled it new technologies.
>> Are there any new technologies of interest?
>> Smart radios, gigabit radios, 60 GHz spectrum radios, etc.
>>
>> Speakers:  ???
>>
>> W3) Using Used Equipment
>>
>> WISPs buying used equipment run into a wide variety of issues. Some are
>> commonplace, some are rare, but you need to know about all of them.
>>
>> panel: Matt Larsen
>>
>>
>> W4: Advanced Network Monitoring for WISPs of all Sizes
>>
>> Basic network monitoring is just that, basic. You know what is up and
>> what is down. This advanced session will go beyond these basics and the
>> basics of installing MRTG, Nagios, WhatUpGold etc., and focus more on
>> the specific data that various sized WISPs are collecting about their
>> networks. We will also cover the more important issue of what to do with
>> this data and some of the systems and procedures used to manage this
>> advanced data.Bring your questions there will be plenty of Q&A.
>>
>> Speakers: 
>>
>>
>>
>> W5: Manage Your Network (Don't Let it Manage You)
>>
>> Today's WISPs need to
>> be able to manage all aspects of their business in today's rapidly
>> evolving marketplace with simplified tools. These panelists will show
>> some of the tools they use or have developed to make sure that their
>> business practices are conducted professionally and efficiently. As WISP
>> businesses grow, the need for well documented network and client
>> information is essential for the future success and scalability of their
>> networks.
>>
>> Speakers:  Rick Harnish
>>
>>
>> W6: Avoiding the 50 Most Common Mistakes (that Experienced WISPs Have
>> Already Made)
>>
>> Successful WISP owners are an independent, strong-minded
>> group of entrepreneurs. The WISP business today presents many challenges
>> and WISP operators need to be strong in order to survive. However just
>> being strong isn't enough. WISPs also need to be smart. Strong and smart
>> WISPs learn from the mistakes that other WISPs have already made and
>> incorporate that learning as quickly as possible into their own
>> organization. Smart businesspeople know that there is no glory and no
>> profit in re-inventing the wheel. Attend this session to learn the 50
>> most common mistakes that experienced WISP operators have already made.
>> You will then be free to choose to apply this new learning when you
>> return to your own WISP.
>>
>>  this session from Jack Unger and Dustin Jurman was one of the best I
>> attended (but I missed many sessions)
>> .

Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field

[Jeff Booher]

Also I forgot- frame size should be the same as well. For example, 10msec
frames vs 5msec 


Jeff Booher
 
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Booher
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 12:37 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field



Having a competitor use the same upload and download ratios and similar GPS
settings will yes, make it so operators can coexist without the issues of
interference. 

 


Jeff Booher
 
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of 3-dB Networks
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field

John,

>From what I understand all manufactures are required to use the same 
>GPS
sync, so all WiMax gear with the appropriate timing settings equal can be
timed together.  Apparently the FCC is requiring it for the equipment to be
certified. 

Daniel White
3-dB Networks

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Rock
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field

I would disagree. WiMAX should be a goal for most WISPs to get into their
networks over the next 1-3 years.
Why??? Roaming!!! It will be the real deal and the WISP market, if they do
the right things, will be able to setup roaming agreements to exist with
each other all over the USA.
CPE will be available in all sorts of devices between 2.3 and 3.8 GHz and
yes 3.65 falls in that window. Device frequency scanning will be dictated by

availabilty. So if the WISP Market, small and large, build compatable 3.65
networks with viable roaming agreements with the right service flows
everyone could be happy. Keep in mind the right things need to fall in place

for this to happen.

Hurdles...
-CPE that really are interoperable and in many types of devices.
-Base Station RF in a cellular sence. That equals build outs with
competitive priced Base stations in mobile mind set.
-Base stations from different manufactureers that can GPS sync with each
other so UL/DL ratios can co exist in a given area. To my knowledge this
does not exist yet but would be critical to help with interference in the
3.65 GHz band. The WiMAX forum needs to make sure this does exist between
base stations along with the interoperability standards they are developing.

The GPS peice may exist but I have yet to see in in the standerds.

Thanks,

John Rock
Wireless Connections
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100
cell 419-706-7356
fax  419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net
This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying

or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.
- Original Message -
From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field


> Mike I hate to say it but I don't think WiMax is intended for the 
> average WISP... lots of carrier grade functionality that the WISP 
> market doesn't need, but really drives up the price (I think its 
> supposed to do 6 9's for
> availability?)
>
> It sucks that its going to limit the WISP's with small customers bases
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:36 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field
>
> Which is not you

Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field

[Jeff Booher]

Having a competitor use the same upload and download ratios and similar GPS
settings will yes, make it so operators can coexist without the issues of
interference. 

 


Jeff Booher
 
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of 3-dB Networks
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field

John,

>From what I understand all manufactures are required to use the same 
>GPS
sync, so all WiMax gear with the appropriate timing settings equal can be
timed together.  Apparently the FCC is requiring it for the equipment to be
certified. 

Daniel White
3-dB Networks

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Rock
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field

I would disagree. WiMAX should be a goal for most WISPs to get into their
networks over the next 1-3 years.
Why??? Roaming!!! It will be the real deal and the WISP market, if they do
the right things, will be able to setup roaming agreements to exist with
each other all over the USA.
CPE will be available in all sorts of devices between 2.3 and 3.8 GHz and
yes 3.65 falls in that window. Device frequency scanning will be dictated by

availabilty. So if the WISP Market, small and large, build compatable 3.65
networks with viable roaming agreements with the right service flows
everyone could be happy. Keep in mind the right things need to fall in place

for this to happen.

Hurdles...
-CPE that really are interoperable and in many types of devices.
-Base Station RF in a cellular sence. That equals build outs with
competitive priced Base stations in mobile mind set.
-Base stations from different manufactureers that can GPS sync with each
other so UL/DL ratios can co exist in a given area. To my knowledge this
does not exist yet but would be critical to help with interference in the
3.65 GHz band. The WiMAX forum needs to make sure this does exist between
base stations along with the interoperability standards they are developing.

The GPS peice may exist but I have yet to see in in the standerds.

Thanks,

John Rock
Wireless Connections
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100
cell 419-706-7356
fax  419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net
This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying

or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.
- Original Message -
From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field


> Mike I hate to say it but I don't think WiMax is intended for the 
> average WISP... lots of carrier grade functionality that the WISP 
> market doesn't need, but really drives up the price (I think its 
> supposed to do 6 9's for
> availability?)
>
> It sucks that its going to limit the WISP's with small customers bases
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:36 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field
>
> Which is not your average WISP...
>
>
> --
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jeff Booher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 5:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field
>
>
>> Brian,
>>
>>
>> Depends on many factors. The price point of 10k per sector is usually 
>> assuming you are talking about purchasing 1-6 sectors. Most of the 
>> MFR's are able to and willing to come down in price considerably when 
>> frame orders or larger deployments are taken into consideration.
>>
>>

Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field

[Jeff Booher]

Eric,

How can it be possibly legal to use a 36dbm sector in 3.65ghz, unless you
are talking about using a 3dbi antenna at the base?

 


Jeff Booher
 
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Eric Muehleisen
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 12:06 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field

Redmax 100U - Lower power (23dbm) basesation $10k with sector antenna.

Redmax 100UX - Certified last week, higher powered (36dbm) basestation $14k
with sector antenna.

-Eric

John McDowell wrote:
> I hear RedMax is coming down in price on CPEs when you buy a pallet of 72.
> Sub $400.
>
> Mike, I'm interested to know what Alvarion is pricing the 3.65 gear 
> now that it is available. Have they come down at all?
>
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Brian Rohrbacher 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>   
>> So, how much does this stuff cost?
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>> John McDowell wrote:
>>
>> I believe it.
>>
>> Today we had a 1.5 mile shot through dense trees using Redline Redmax
3.65.
>> Customer was getting close to 500k upload. Signal held steady at 88db 
>> on a 1-story house.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Mike Cowan 
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Many of you have known me for years, some wish they didn't :-).  I am 
>> the doubting Thomas type and have to test myself before I recommend 
>> products to a client.  Lets just say that Thomas was satisfied.  Now 
>> the clients are echoing the same and that is what drives my wagon.
>> Message-Id: 
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> At 08:52 PM 7/21/2008, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> Same here, I thought it was all marketing hype, if it works like the 
>> poster mentioned, we will need to consider moving up our timetable 
>> for evaluating wimax, 10k a basestation suddenly isn't that bad with 
>> the performance described.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>
>>
>> Now this is a 180* of what others have told me, even others offering 
>> traditional, D, and E products.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutionshttp://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>  Mike Cowan
>> Wireless Connections
>> A Division of ACC
>> 166 Milan Ave
>> Norwalk, OH  44857
>> 419-660-6100
>> 419-706-7348 
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> --- WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> -
>> ---
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireles
>> s
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> ---
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> -
>> ---
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> 
>
>
>
>   





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Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field

[Jeff Booher]

Brian,
 
 
Depends on many factors. The price point of 10k per sector is usually
assuming you are talking about purchasing 1-6 sectors. Most of the MFR's are
able to and willing to come down in price considerably when frame orders or
larger deployments are taken into consideration. 
 
 
Best Regards,
 
 
Jeff Booher
 
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com <http://www.apertonet.com/> 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.
 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 6:06 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field


So, how much does this stuff cost?

Brian

John McDowell wrote: 

I believe it.



Today we had a 1.5 mile shot through dense trees using Redline Redmax 3.65.

Customer was getting close to 500k upload. Signal held steady at 88db on a

1-story house.



On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Mike Cowan
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

wrote:



  

Many of you have known me for years, some wish they didn't :-).  I am

the doubting Thomas type and have to test myself before I recommend

products to a client.  Lets just say that Thomas was satisfied.  Now

the clients are echoing the same and that is what drives my wagon.

Message-Id:
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



Mike





At 08:52 PM 7/21/2008, you wrote:



Same here, I thought it was all marketing hype, if it works like the

poster mentioned, we will need to consider moving up our timetable for

evaluating wimax, 10k a basestation suddenly isn't that bad with the

performance described.



Regards

Michael Baird



  

Now this is a 180* of what others have told me, even others offering

traditional, D, and E products.





--

Mike Hammett

Intelligent Computing Solutions

http://www.ics-il.com





 Mike Cowan

Wireless Connections

A Division of ACC

166 Milan Ave

Norwalk, OH  44857

419-660-6100

419-706-7348 Cell

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.wirelessconnections.net












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Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field

[Jeff Booher]

10k is NOT the price for an 802.16e solution-

Try closer to 20-40k per sector

 


Jeff Booher
 
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 5:52 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field

Same here, I thought it was all marketing hype, if it works like the poster
mentioned, we will need to consider moving up our timetable for evaluating
wimax, 10k a basestation suddenly isn't that bad with the performance
described.

Regards
Michael Baird

> Now this is a 180* of what others have told me, even others offering 
> traditional, D, and E products.
> 
> 
> --
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike Cowan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 6:06 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field
> 
> 
> > With some of the Wimax discussions going on I thought I would throw 
> > my hat into the ring.
> >
> > 3.650 Wimax using 802.16d only products provides decent 
> > connectivity, at a higher cost than traditional unlicensed gear.  
> > Performance/coverage is on par, or better than 2.4 that most of are 
> > used to.  Pay a little extra for product, gain access to cleaner 
> > spectrum and hopefully a rule set that helps keep it cleaner than 
> > our wild wild west unlicensed world.
> >
> > Now deploy 3.650 using 802.16e upgradeable products.  The coverage 
> > difference when using diversity options goes up significantly.  Now 
> > 3.650 begins to act and feel more like a 900Mhz product with NLOS 
> > coverage capability.  Actually our customers, and our field tests 
> > are showing that it exceeds 900Mhz often by a large margin.  Here 
> > are a couple recent field examples all 2nd order diversity:
> >
> > Customer 1- 8.4 mile NLOS location. blocked by heavy trees .  1.5MB 
> > download holding CPE in their hand on the ground!  Decided to test
> > 5.8 at this location and @ 50' AGL the CPE got a link.  5.8 mounted 
> > on the same tower, same height as 3.650.  The 5.8 system could not 
> > pass data and could just barely maintain association.
> >
> > Customer 2- 12.4 miles away at the owners home.  1.0mb on the 
> > ground.  This location could not be serviced by 2.4 or 5.8 at 40'
> > above the ground previously.  The owner is going to mount Wimax on 
> > the roof and I expect he will se 10-12MB at that height.
> >
> > Customer 2- 12.6 miles on the ground.  Completely obstructed 6MB 
> > down 3MB up.
> >
> > Customer 3- This is one of the most telling.  Canopy 900 operator.  
> > 3.650 2nd order diversity mounted 10' below Canopy.  100% coverage 
> > at 3.650 of a small city.  It takes 2 tower locations with  900 here 
> > to serve the same area.  They gave up field testing because "it 
> > works everywhere".  They the said "lets try to break it".  We drove 
> > to a part of town that is challenged with 900 coverage.  They found 
> > a traditionally bad coverage spot and drove up to a big tree, took 
> > the CPE out of the vehicle and buried it in the tree.  -101 signal.  
> > They then picked up their VOIP phone and called the NOC and did a 
> > "can you hear me now"?  Toll quality voice call.
> >
> > Our internal testing is showing similar results. Using 4th order 
> > diversity is showing even better results than above.  When you do 
> > the upgrade to 16e and add Wave II CPE, Katy bar the door.  That 
> > coverage is nothing less than jaw dropping.  2.5 miles obstructed 
> > with a PC card!  Same PC card 1 mile away entering a commercial 
> > building, no signal change.  Not possible with a traditional system.  
> > In this case the wall measured a 25db loss, however STC and MRC 
> > diversity gains completely made up for the attenuation once the paths
became uncorrelated.
> >
> > Bottom line is diversity is the place to be with Wimax.  It is more 
> > expensive, so find a way to afford it.  Push your vendor for price 
> > breaks and don't be bashful.  Alvarion for example is willing to 
> &g

Re: [WISPA] THANK YOU!!!!

[Jeff Booher]

Congrats MARLON!

 


Jeff Booher
 
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 8:14 PM
To: WISPA General List
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WISPA] THANK YOU

Wow, thanks guys.  I didn't even know I'd been nominated.

To be thought of as a benefit to the entire industry is the greatest
possible compliment y'all could possibly have given me!

http://odessaoffice.com/wireless/wispa_award.jpg

Thanks again,
marlon 





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Re: [WISPA] Rapid Link Launches WiMax Service in Atlanta

[Jeff Booher]

Wimax CPE should be less than 400.00.
 


Jeff Booher
 
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
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you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:17 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rapid Link Launches WiMax Service in Atlanta

Yup... and it's only because they can... they are getting the "big" 
operators to pay that kind of money, so they will keep selling at those
prices. Supply and demand... but you can build a MT 3.65ghz CPE for less
than $400, but it's still expensive compared to all the other frequencies.

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
> Yeah, I think I'm going to be passing on 3650 until something cheaper
comes along.  Ubiquiti has the XR3, but that's still a $260 mPCI card when I
normally spend $35.  There's also no RooTennas, so I have to go with a more
expensive solution... I think I figured $500 for a CPE instead of the $150 I
pay now.  I don't expect to pay $150 for a WiMAX CPE or $750 for a WiMAX AP,
but the prices these guys are asking is ridiculous.
>
>
> --
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Travis Johnson 
>   To: WISPA General List 
>   Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:01 PM
>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rapid Link Launches WiMax Service in Atlanta
>
>
>   Maybe they are trying to get enough new business to pay for $7,000 
> basestations? :)
>
>   Travis
>   Microserv
>
>   Mike Hammett wrote: 
> and I thought they already posted this or a similar press release a 
> time or two.
>
>
> --
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rapid Link Launches WiMax Service in Atlanta
>
>
>   I thought you were One ring ...
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On Behalf Of Mike Prachar
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:37 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Rapid Link Launches WiMax Service in Atlanta
> Importance: High
>
> -  Atlanta business can now enjoy the only wide-area alternative to 
> AT&T
> -
>
>
> OMAHA, NE - June 3, 2008 - Rapid Link, Incorporated (OTCBB: RPID), a 
> leading provider of WiMax and Communication Services, announced today 
> the official launch of its much anticipated WiMax service offering in 
> the Atlanta Metropolitan area.
>
> Following the soft launch of this service in February 2008, Rapid Link 
> has several active customers enjoying the benefits of this cutting 
> edge technology.  Due to the overwhelming success of the early release 
> through our Channel Partners, Rapid Link is now offering voice and 
> internet service via WiMax to the commercial public.
>
> Operating in the licensed-only 3650 MHz spectrum, customers can now 
> enjoy guaranteed high speed connectivity, voice and internet bundled 
> service, at the best cost/efficiency ratio in the industry.
>
> Matt Liotta, Chief Technology Officer of Rapid Link states, "We are 
> clearly ahead of the competition and the technology power curve with 
> this offering.  Customers are increasingly discovering the limitations 
> of antiquated technologies.  Following the recent release of WiMax 
> technologies and equipment in the United States, Rapid link is proud 
> to be a licensed WiMax carrier offering this breakthrough service to 
> our foundation of customers in the greater Atlanta area."
>
>
> About Rapid Link
>
> Rapid Link, Incorporated is a Diversified Communication Services 
> company, supplying bundled internet and voice services to Business and 
> Residential customers. Rapid Link offers broadband access via its own 
> facilities to ensure fast and reliable delivery of its content. As a 
> leading licensed WiMAX carrier, Rapid Link is on the cutting edge of 
> this exciting new technology. We are one of the only carriers that can 
> offer an end-to-end solution for our customers without a dependency on 

Re: [WISPA] Rapid Link Launches WiMax Service in Atlanta

[Jeff Booher]

Travis,
 
Yes the base station costs are more. But you are also talking about carrier
class systems that not only, improve your valuation as an operator, but also
offer more scalablity and more bits per hertz. Not to mention, NLOS
performance, larger LOS cell sizes, frequency reuse, and higher stability.
 
On the CPE costs- Wimax CPE are already very competitive with Trango,
Motorola and other solutions. 
 
Best,
 
 
 
Jeff Booher
 
Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com <http://www.apertonet.com/> 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.
 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rapid Link Launches WiMax Service in Atlanta


Maybe they are trying to get enough new business to pay for $7,000
basestations? :)

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote: 

and I thought they already posted this or a similar press release a time or 

two.





--

Mike Hammett

Intelligent Computing Solutions

http://www.ics-il.com





- Original Message - 

From: "Gino Villarini"  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List"  <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> 

Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:42 PM

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rapid Link Launches WiMax Service in Atlanta





  

I thought you were One ring ...



Gino A. Villarini

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145



-Original Message-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Mike Prachar

Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:37 PM

To: WISPA General List

Subject: [WISPA] Rapid Link Launches WiMax Service in Atlanta

Importance: High



-  Atlanta business can now enjoy the only wide-area alternative to AT&T

-





OMAHA, NE - June 3, 2008 - Rapid Link, Incorporated (OTCBB: RPID), a

leading provider of WiMax and Communication Services, announced today

the official launch of its much anticipated WiMax service offering in

the Atlanta Metropolitan area.



Following the soft launch of this service in February 2008, Rapid Link

has several active customers enjoying the benefits of this cutting edge

technology.  Due to the overwhelming success of the early release

through our Channel Partners, Rapid Link is now offering voice and

internet service via WiMax to the commercial public.



Operating in the licensed-only 3650 MHz spectrum, customers can now

enjoy guaranteed high speed connectivity, voice and internet bundled

service, at the best cost/efficiency ratio in the industry.



Matt Liotta, Chief Technology Officer of Rapid Link states, "We are

clearly ahead of the competition and the technology power curve with

this offering.  Customers are increasingly discovering the limitations

of antiquated technologies.  Following the recent release of WiMax

technologies and equipment in the United States, Rapid link is proud to

be a licensed WiMax carrier offering this breakthrough service to our

foundation of customers in the greater Atlanta area."





About Rapid Link



Rapid Link, Incorporated is a Diversified Communication Services

company, supplying bundled internet and voice services to Business and

Residential customers. Rapid Link offers broadband access via its own

facilities to ensure fast and reliable delivery of its content. As a

leading licensed WiMAX carrier, Rapid Link is on the cutting edge of

this exciting new technology. We are one of the only carriers that can

offer an end-to-end solution for our customers without a dependency on

any other company's resources.



For more information, visit www.rapidlink.com.



"Safe Harbor" Statement under the Private Securities Litigation Reform

Act of 1995: With the exception of historical information, the

statements set forth above include forward-looking statements that

involve risk and uncertainties. The Company wishes to caution readers

that a number of important factors could cause actual results to differ

materially from those in the forward-looking statements. Those factors

include, but are not limited to, risks and uncertainties such as the

failure to satisfy contractually agreed upon closing conditions that may

delay or prevent the closings of subsequent debt financings contemplated

by the applicable agreements; the risk factors noted in the Company's

filings with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission, such

as the trading price of the Company's common stock reaching levels that

would cause funding to occur; t

Re: [WISPA] Future

[Jeff Booher]

comments inline.
On Apr 22, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

> Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel?

Not to my knowedge.
>
>
> Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription  
> on say a
> 10 meg client?

Certainly.

>
>
> What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)?

Between 5-10k

>
>
> What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)?

Between 5-10k


>
>
>
> --
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jeff Booher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
>
>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.
>>
>> Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz
>> channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also,  
>> there
>> are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the
>> licenseholders are.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick,
>>> Excellent point on channel sizes!
>>> So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,
>>> 5.X, 3.6
>>> (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
>>> I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
>>> Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
>>> Would it use the same channel sizes?
>>> Would it help with range and capacity?
>>> Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
>>> In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck Profito
>>> 209-988-7388
>>> CV-ACCESS, INC
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Providing High Speed Broadband
>>> to Rural Central California
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
>>> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
>>>
>>> Patrick,
>>> If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
>>> what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
>>> 2 miles los?
>>> 2 miles wooded?
>>> 5 m los?
>>> 5 m nlos?
>>> 10 m los?
>>> 10 m nlos
>>> ??
>>> Is this a fair question?
>>>
>>> Chuck Profito
>>> 209-988-7388
>>> CV-ACCESS, INC
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Providing High Speed Broadband
>>> to Rural Central California
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Patrick Leary
>>> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
>>>
>>> The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours
>>> great
>>> headaches. The stupid "70 miles 30 mbps" was the most absurd bit of
>>> hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.
>>> Meanwhile, Mo
>>> Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)
>>> was
>>> trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
>>> sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the
>>> expectations. I
>>> did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.
>>>
>>> WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's
>>> greatest
>>> near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.
>>>
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>>> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
>>>
>>> WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
>>>
>>>
>>>> I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
>>>> partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree  
>>>> strongly
>>> on
>>>> the "W

Re: [WISPA] Future

[Jeff Booher]

Chuck,

Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products.

Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz  
channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there  
are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the  
licenseholders are.



-

Jeff

On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

> Patrick,
> Excellent point on channel sizes!
> So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? ,  
> 5.X, 3.6
> (we are in a big exclusion zone.)
> I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers.
> Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes?
> Would it use the same channel sizes?
> Would it help with range and capacity?
> Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent?
> In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls?
>
>
> Chuck Profito
> 209-988-7388
> CV-ACCESS, INC
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Providing High Speed Broadband
> to Rural Central California
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
> On
> Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
>
> Patrick,
> If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
> what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
> 2 miles los?
> 2 miles wooded?
> 5 m los?
> 5 m nlos?
> 10 m los?
> 10 m nlos
> ??
> Is this a fair question?
>
> Chuck Profito
> 209-988-7388
> CV-ACCESS, INC
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Providing High Speed Broadband
> to Rural Central California
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
> On
> Behalf Of Patrick Leary
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
>
> The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours  
> great
> headaches. The stupid "70 miles 30 mbps" was the most absurd bit of
> hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.  
> Meanwhile, Mo
> Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)  
> was
> trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
> sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the  
> expectations. I
> did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.
>
> WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's  
> greatest
> near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.
>
> Patrick
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
> On
> Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
>
> WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
>
>
>> I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
>> partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
> on
>> the "WiMAX is dead" part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).
>>
>> The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
>> opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
>> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
>>
>> WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
>> but
>> emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
>> technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited  
>> to
>> compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
> never
>> live
>> up to the hype.
>>
>> All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
> go.
>> Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
>> driven
>> customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
> for
>>
>> fixed wireless. technologies.
>>
>> 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more  
>> cell
>> spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
> of
>> data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of  
>> the
>> antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
>> than
>> the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
>> there
>> will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
>> stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
>> know if
>> they get a special dispensation or what.
>>
>> All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
> will
>> erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
> capital
>> intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
>> prefer
>> to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
>> service
>> and support will always retain the customer.
>>
>> The cable 

Re: [WISPA] Future

[Jeff Booher]

Chuck:

Depends on the frequency, channel size, type of service delivery  
( fixed or mobile ), urban environment, suburban or rural, mimo,  
diversity


YMMV is always the case with wimax. :)

-

Jeff



On Apr 21, 2008, at 10:01 AM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

> Patrick,
> If not 70 miles and 30 mbps,
> what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say:
> 2 miles los?
> 2 miles wooded?
> 5 m los?
> 5 m nlos?
> 10 m los?
> 10 m nlos
> ??
> Is this a fair question?
>
> Chuck Profito
> 209-988-7388
> CV-ACCESS, INC
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Providing High Speed Broadband
> to Rural Central California
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
> On
> Behalf Of Patrick Leary
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
>
> The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours  
> great
> headaches. The stupid "70 miles 30 mbps" was the most absurd bit of
> hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly.  
> Meanwhile, Mo
> Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec)  
> was
> trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public
> sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the  
> expectations. I
> did it in numerous analyst and press interviews.
>
> WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's  
> greatest
> near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint.
>
> Patrick
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
> On
> Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
>
> WiMax as hyped by the press is dead.  No?
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
>
>
>> I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only
>> partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
> on
>> the "WiMAX is dead" part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it).
>>
>> The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong
>> opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%.
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
>> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future
>>
>> WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead.  OK, not factually true
>> but
>> emotionally true.  The cell companies will use  WiMax frequencies and
>> technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited  
>> to
>> compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless.  It will
> never
>> live
>> up to the hype.
>>
>> All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the
> go.
>> Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value
>> driven
>> customer that love us so much.  Cell is and will not be value leader
> for
>>
>> fixed wireless. technologies.
>>
>> 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more  
>> cell
>> spectrum.  The bands are narrow.  Good for phone and limited amounts
> of
>> data.  Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of  
>> the
>> antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones.  Less gain
>> than
>> the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes.  Also
>> there
>> will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV
>> stations.  And some of them are not moving for some reason.  I don't
>> know if
>> they get a special dispensation or what.
>>
>> All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home.  That
> will
>> erode market share for WISPs in some areas.  This is a slow and
> capital
>> intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that.  Plus many folks
>> prefer
>> to deal with us vs a large public traded company.  Superior customer
>> service
>> and support will always retain the customer.
>>
>> The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and
>> drop
>> the balls.  They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base
>> from
>> DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well  
>> as
>> they
>> could.  They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash
>> situation
>> from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us)
> from
>> the
>> other.
>>
>> In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web
>> development,
>> OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell
> opportunities.
>>
>> All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA
> HDTV.
>> OTA
>> HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value
>> conscious customer.  Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and
> help
>> folks get their analog TVs converted over.  Less work than a WISP
>> install
>> and you will lock in the customer even mor

Re: [WISPA] n00b 802.16 questions

[Jeff Booher]

On Apr 18, 2008, at 9:41 PM, Jack Unger wrote:

>
>
> Jeff Booher wrote:
>> Ill be happy to answer this.
>>
>>
>> On Apr 18, 2008, at 4:47 PM, Rogelio wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Excuse the ignorance, but two basic questions:
>>>
>>> (1) Why exactly is wimax such a disappointment?
>>>
>>
>> Wimax is not a dissapointment. The problem is the press jumped on the
>> Wimax bandwagon WELL before the products were even in the market, and
>> frankly there wasnt much product available in the US ( due to
>> spectrum ).
>>
>> Wimax honestly will enable operators to delivery a carrier class
>> fixed, system with lower CPE costs and still be capable of delivering
>> the the high capacity needed to scale to thousands of subscribers per
>> tower.
>>
> Thousands of subscribers per tower is seriously doubtful unless 90% of
> them are inactive simultaneously.

Depends on the bandwidth delivered per subscriber and yes, on a  
millesecond by millesecond basis, most CPE are not active 24/7 on a  
network. unlike polled solutions that do not scale up beyond 50+ subs  
per AP, the wimax MAC enables operators to add hundreds of subs to a  
single sector.


>
>>
>>
>>> I'm relatively new to the wireless space, and all I really
>>> understand is the
>>> tone of the articles I read, not really the IEEE specifications that
>>> limit
>>> it as a technology.
>>>
>>> AND
>>>
>>> (2) What is so special about 802.16e?
>>>
>>
>> If you are in the US, and you don't already own sub 3ghz spectrum,
>> just ignore 802.16e. You wont be able to use it, really.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
> Author of the Cisco Press Book - "Deploying License-Free Wireless  
> WANs"
> Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Design-Troubleshooting-Consulting
> FCC License # PG-12-25133
> Phone 818-227-4220   Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] n00b 802.16 questions

[Jeff Booher]

Ill be happy to answer this.


On Apr 18, 2008, at 4:47 PM, Rogelio wrote:

> Excuse the ignorance, but two basic questions:
>
> (1) Why exactly is wimax such a disappointment?

Wimax is not a dissapointment. The problem is the press jumped on the  
Wimax bandwagon WELL before the products were even in the market, and  
frankly there wasnt much product available in the US ( due to  
spectrum ).

Wimax honestly will enable operators to delivery a carrier class  
fixed, system with lower CPE costs and still be capable of delivering  
the the high capacity needed to scale to thousands of subscribers per  
tower.


>
>
> I'm relatively new to the wireless space, and all I really  
> understand is the
> tone of the articles I read, not really the IEEE specifications that  
> limit
> it as a technology.
>
> AND
>
> (2) What is so special about 802.16e?

If you are in the US, and you don't already own sub 3ghz spectrum,  
just ignore 802.16e. You wont be able to use it, really.


>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] FYI - New how-to-get-a-3650-license whitepaperavailable -- link

[Jeff Booher]

hahahahha funny

On Apr 8, 2008, at 1:41 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:

> That's maybe because you're on the Alvarion blacklist!
>
> Ducking!!! jejee
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
> On
> Behalf Of Jeff Booher
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FYI - New how-to-get-a-3650-license
> whitepaperavailable -- link
>
> SEND me patrick, I tried getting it off your webpage... its timing out
> for some reason.
>
> tks,
>
> jeff
>
> On Apr 8, 2008, at 9:57 AM, Patrick Leary wrote:
>
>> I wrote a step-by-step guide showing the actual application process.
>> 100% vendor neutral. You can download it from our Web site via the
>> home
>> page. Make sure to select the U.S. Web version from the drop down at
>> the
>> top right.
>>
>> http://www.alvarion.com/
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals &
>> computer viruses(84).
>>
> 
> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] FYI - New how-to-get-a-3650-license whitepaper available -- link

[Jeff Booher]

SEND me patrick, I tried getting it off your webpage... its timing out  
for some reason.

tks,

jeff

On Apr 8, 2008, at 9:57 AM, Patrick Leary wrote:

> I wrote a step-by-step guide showing the actual application process.
> 100% vendor neutral. You can download it from our Web site via the  
> home
> page. Make sure to select the U.S. Web version from the drop down at  
> the
> top right.
>
> http://www.alvarion.com/
>
> Cheers,
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
> 
> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals &  
> computer viruses(84).
> 
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
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Re: [WISPA] Australian WiMAX pioneertrashestechnologyas"miserablefailure"

[Jeff Booher]

of course, thats to an indoor device, assuming macro diversity gain as  
well.

outdoor 3.65ghz, 5-7 miles NLOS is capable in a flat, rural  
environment. Estimate around 4 miles in a mixed ( suburban / trees  )  
enviorment.   This is NLOS as well.


-

Jeff

On Mar 24, 2008, at 12:25 PM, chris cooper wrote:

> So that is roughly 10 square miles per cell for rural deployment?   
> Seems
> like a pretty tough sell in rural markets with low pop. Densities.
>
> Chris
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
> On
> Behalf Of Jeff Booher
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:16 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Australian WiMAX
> pioneertrashestechnologyas"miserablefailure"
>
> I would agree.
>
> In a dense urban enviorment the usual cell size for a 3.65ghz  wimax
> deployment is a 1km/ cell. Suburban, 2km cell, and rural, 3km cell.
> Obviously once you get below 3ghz the propogation gets better. It
> really doesnt get any better until you are talking 2ghz or lower. Of
> course, then once you get below 1ghz you have issues with surface
> refactivity and self induced interference limiting the CINR.
>
>
> -
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Australian WiMAX pioneer trashestechnologyas"miserablefailure"

[Jeff Booher]

I would agree.

In a dense urban enviorment the usual cell size for a 3.65ghz  wimax  
deployment is a 1km/ cell. Suburban, 2km cell, and rural, 3km cell.   
Obviously once you get below 3ghz the propogation gets better. It  
really doesnt get any better until you are talking 2ghz or lower. Of  
course, then once you get below 1ghz you have issues with surface  
refactivity and self induced interference limiting the CINR.


-

Jeff



On Mar 24, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Brian Webster wrote:

> Jeff,
>   Just to clarify my point, I was not hammering on any one  
> manufacturer. I
> was more trying to make the point that there is no magic bullet to  
> be able
> to use an indoor CPE and have a large coverage area. This goes for  
> any magic
> spectrum as well. Anything that will give you a large coverage will  
> start to
> be impeded by the buildings/wavelength ratio. Indoor really only  
> works with
> a lot of signal and many base stations.which of course means  
> more money
> invested in the network.which keeps the small guy out of the game.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jeff Booher
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:26 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Australian WiMAX pioneer
> trashestechnologyas"miserablefailure"
>
>
> All,
>
> In Airspan's defense,  I am assuming the product that customer
> received was the version 3.00 product that only supported 20dbm output
> power. Its no surprise it didn't work and of course, the manufacturer
> has retooled the product and now the product supports 27dbm
> ( micromax ) at the AP and 24dbm @ the CPE. If you ran a link
> calcuation using their tools for that version of hardware, its totally
> not surprising the coverage was shoddy. As far as the latency is
> concerned, dont know what to tell you there. What I have seen in the
> field is much better performance. There is no excuse for overselling
> the solution's performance however, and I dont know the customer or
> what specifically caused them to get that upset.
>
> Honestly though using an 802.16-2004 product for indoor will not give
> you the performance that you will see with  802.16-2005, as far as
> latency and coverage is concerned. However, 802.16-2005 base stations
> will be a LOT more expensive ( try 80-120k ) over fixed which run
> around 3k-10k per sector.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Mar 24, 2008, at 9:16 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
>> I'd say it's probably little fault with the company and a lot of
>> fault with
>> people promoting or expecting more out of it than it can technically
>> deliver
>> (indoor install at 2 miles).
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Jenco Wireless" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Australian WiMAX pioneer trashes
>> technologyas"miserablefailure"
>>
>>
>>> I have a local competitor who uses Wi-Max equipment - maybe even
>>> the brand
>>> you mentioned (sorry - I don't want sued) - I have had calls from a
>>> customer
>>> or two of theirs who are looking for something better.  I have no
>>> way of
>>> knowing all of the details (signal strength, etc.), but at one of
>>> their
>>> customers homes I did some testing and it really did look like crap
>>> (500-600
>>> ms lag times).  I have been saying to myself for a long time, self
>>> - it's
>>> all just hype until you see differently for yourself.  I may have
>>> been
>>> right.  I like it when I'm right :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Brad H
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Gino Villarini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, It still amazes me how well cell 3g is working.
>>>>
>>>> Currently Im on a Cruise Ship sailing out of San Juan towards
>>>> Aruba, we
>>>> are bordering the north coast of Puerto Rico ... about 3 miles out
>>>> and I
>>>> have 3 out of 5 bars in my AT&T Hsdpa Card, inside my
>>>> stateroom ...not
>>>> that bad, AT&T will eventually migrate to LTE which promises more
>>>> speed
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Gino A. Villar

Re: [WISPA] Australian WiMAX pioneer trashes technologyas"miserablefailure"

[Jeff Booher]

All,

In Airspan's defense,  I am assuming the product that customer  
received was the version 3.00 product that only supported 20dbm output  
power. Its no surprise it didn't work and of course, the manufacturer  
has retooled the product and now the product supports 27dbm  
( micromax ) at the AP and 24dbm @ the CPE. If you ran a link  
calcuation using their tools for that version of hardware, its totally  
not surprising the coverage was shoddy. As far as the latency is  
concerned, dont know what to tell you there. What I have seen in the  
field is much better performance. There is no excuse for overselling  
the solution's performance however, and I dont know the customer or  
what specifically caused them to get that upset.

Honestly though using an 802.16-2004 product for indoor will not give  
you the performance that you will see with  802.16-2005, as far as  
latency and coverage is concerned. However, 802.16-2005 base stations  
will be a LOT more expensive ( try 80-120k ) over fixed which run  
around 3k-10k per sector.

-

Jeff



On Mar 24, 2008, at 9:16 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

> I'd say it's probably little fault with the company and a lot of  
> fault with
> people promoting or expecting more out of it than it can technically  
> deliver
> (indoor install at 2 miles).
>
>
> --
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jenco Wireless" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Australian WiMAX pioneer trashes
> technologyas"miserablefailure"
>
>
>> I have a local competitor who uses Wi-Max equipment - maybe even  
>> the brand
>> you mentioned (sorry - I don't want sued) - I have had calls from a
>> customer
>> or two of theirs who are looking for something better.  I have no  
>> way of
>> knowing all of the details (signal strength, etc.), but at one of  
>> their
>> customers homes I did some testing and it really did look like crap
>> (500-600
>> ms lag times).  I have been saying to myself for a long time, self  
>> - it's
>> all just hype until you see differently for yourself.  I may have  
>> been
>> right.  I like it when I'm right :-)
>>
>>
>> Brad H
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Gino Villarini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, It still amazes me how well cell 3g is working.
>>>
>>> Currently Im on a Cruise Ship sailing out of San Juan towards  
>>> Aruba, we
>>> are bordering the north coast of Puerto Rico ... about 3 miles out  
>>> and I
>>> have 3 out of 5 bars in my AT&T Hsdpa Card, inside my  
>>> stateroom ...not
>>> that bad, AT&T will eventually migrate to LTE which promises more  
>>> speed
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>> Behalf Of Brian Webster
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:58 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Australian WiMAX pioneer trashes technology
>>> as"miserablefailure"
>>>
>>>   This does not surprise me. I have never thought that any  
>>> type of
>>> indoor CPE
>>> business plan would do well for wireless internet. There are just  
>>> too
>>> many
>>> unknown factors when it comes to placing a low power CPE without an
>>> external
>>> antenna in the hands of customers. They do not understand the
>>> limitations of
>>> wireless. Things like aluminum siding and stucco with wire mesh  
>>> are just
>>> a
>>> couple of the big problems that you will run in to. Other items like
>>> metallic mirror film on windows and too many interior walls  
>>> between the
>>> CPE
>>> and tower site are others. From an RF perspective it is always
>>> preferable to
>>> be above all of that (i.e. Rooftop) with the radio/antenna. If  
>>> most of
>>> the
>>> buildings in the neighborhood are of the same height, building  
>>> losses
>>> are a
>>> non-issue because you are now above them. The only thing left to  
>>> worry
>>> about
>>> is the trees. Using outdoor antenna/CPE combinations should also  
>>> allow
>>> you
>>> higher EIRP since the maximum permissible exposure rules would  
>>> change
>>> with
>>> the unit being away from the general public.
>>>   While you can make the case for customer self installs, you
>>> would need to
>>> have many more base stations so that you would have plenty of  
>>> signal to
>>> overcome the building  losses. This may work in a densely  
>>> populated area
>>> where you can justify the numbers (but you also have more  
>>> competition).
>>> In
>>> rural markets I would suggest to anyone making a business plan,  
>>> figure
>>> on
>>> doing fixed outdoor CPE installations. With a properly equipped  
>>> WIMAX
>>> base
>>> station costing around $40,000, a small WISP would be able to  
>>> conduct
>>> many
>>> truck r

Re: [WISPA] winog

[Jeff Booher]

Title: Re: [WISPA] winog



I vote for bikini’s :)



From: Gino Villarini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:18:24 -0400
To: 'WISPA General List' 
Subject: RE: [WISPA] winog

How about some nice caribbean sun down here in Puerto Ricoocean front conference room with bikini view !
 
Gino

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 6:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] winog

And then there is always Grand Rapids, MI.  :)
Heck, as long as it is in the midwest.

Butch Evans wrote: 
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Jeff Mabry wrote:

  
 
WiNOG 3 - How about St. Louis, MO?


Yeah...I'd vote for that.  Or Malden, MO.  Population 5000.  :-)

  

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