Mike, This once again is not an apples to apples argument but rather apples to rutabega. Still fruit, but very different fruit :)
Correct the per AP bandwidth would be higher. However, try loading an 802.11x system with 100 subscribers. It will choke and the end user experience will be very bad. It would choke not from bandwidth, but from simple issues with the scheduler. I don't know of a single 802.11 based system that loads well to 100 plus subscriber stations. Considering Wimax can support these sort of subscriber totals, per sector in reality, from a spectral efficency standpoint, in 5.8ghz, on ONE tower you can support something in the neighboorhood of 240mb/sec in total base station capacity. ( 34 sectors/120mhz ). So yes, you cant sell many 6/6 pipes off this base station, but you can sell a heck of a lot of 1.5/1.5 mb pipes ( probably around 2400 subscribers ) FROM one tower location. Not to mention the stablity of Wimax, which is a lot more stable in modulation, error rate, latency....that it can support many many voice over ip connections. ( our product can support over 300 concurrent calls per sector ). Also im completely certain that by using a wider RF channel you increase the required CINR to achieve full modulation, while reducing your effective range. Wimax has an effective LOS Range @ peak modulation in 5.8ghz of 10 miles plus. So yes its expensive. But it definitely beats legacy systems in many different areas. What good is 300mb in throughput if you can only go 2 miles with it and the probability of interference is extremely high? On a 7mhz channel you can easily find open spectrum. I understand the business case issues with Wimax, and Aperto is probably one of the very few companies that is sensitive to this issue and is working diligently to find solutions that can meet customer needs, so that a residential business case can be met. We know that most customers can't afford a 20 month payback, there is no arugment there. Best Regards, _ Jeff Booher Sales Director, North America www.apertonet.com - -----Original Message----- From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us [mailto:rea...@muddyfrogwater.us] Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:34 PM To: jefftho...@fastmail.fm; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Sheesh. How many times must this misinformation be posted before the snake oil gets poured down the drain? The better MAC allows you to use a very high percentage of transmission time for actual data throughput, and it manages spreading bandwidth nicely among the oversubscribed. HOWEVER... If you built a 300mbit 802.11 PTMP system, you'd get about 120 total throughput. This means you're using massive amounts of spectrum, but the actual throughput would be higher than ANY WIMAX setup to date. This snake oil about the MAC supposedly violating physics and putting 36mbit through an 18 mbit pipe is nonsense. 802.11 sucks because the MAC wastes well over 50% of the airtime doing nothing at all, has absolutely no means of managing bandwidth use or dividing use among the users. However, REAL THROUGHPUT IS REAL THROUGHPUT. If you have an 18 mbit WIMAX you can support 3 clients consuming a little less than 6 each. Add client #4 asking for 6mbit and the the other three MUST LOSE BANDWIDTH TO FEED IT. Get it? So, instead of just under 6 each, if they're all equal priority, all 4 get about 4. Duhh. That's it. You cannot violate physics. The MAC allows greater efficiency concerning airtime and modulation types improve throughput vs spectrum consumption. NOTHING VIOLATES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS. You cannot get 36 through an 18 knothole. Period. You guys are all WAY smarter than this, and it's about time the hype based on comparison of RADIO DATA RATES gets chucked down the toilet. None of us operate that way, and none of care a whit about radio data rates. We're all about real throughput and good management of our our required business model of oversubscription. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ <insert witty tagline here> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Booher" <jefftho...@fastmail.fm> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > Mike, > > It absolutely has nothing to do with throughput. It has to do with the > scheduling mechanism of the MAC. The reason why 802.11x networks cant > scale > like this is the listen before talk protocol. Even basic polling doesn't > work because the more subs you add, the more latency you add to the > network. > > - > > Jeff > > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:34 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > > Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however. > > In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having > enough > bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and > in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 > megabit. > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > >> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel >> >> >> Gino A. Villarini >> g...@aeronetpr.com >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On Behalf Of Mike Hammett >> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? >> >> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a >> WiMAX AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Jeff Booher" <jefftho...@fastmail.fm> >> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM >> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? >> >>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base >>> station, that only supports 30 subscribers. >>> >>> - >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? >>> >>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp. >>> >>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? >>> marlon >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? >>> >>> >>>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... >>>> >>>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp >>>> >>>> >>>> Gino A. Villarini >>>> g...@aeronetpr.com >>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >>>> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >>>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM >>>> To: WISPA General List >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? >>>> >>>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to >> the >>>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today. >>>> >>>> Take care leon >>>> >>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >>>>> I'm looking into this too. >>>>> >>>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers. A 3 sector >>>>> install at $20k? Not to service the 20 people that will be able to >>>>> even see that tower.... >>>>> >>>>> Anyone have any better ideas? >>>>> marlon >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> >>>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" <motor...@wispa.org>; "WISPA >> General >>>> List" >>>>> <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM >>>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Fellow operators: >>>>>> >>>>>> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? >>>>>> >>>>>> Any updates on experiences with: >>>>>> >>>>>> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, >>>>>> Airspan ??? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Gino A. Villarini >>>>>> g...@aeronetpr.com >>>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >>>>>> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- >>>> -------- >>>> WISPA Wants You! 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