Re: [WISPA] Open Range Closes: Broadband's Solyndra @$240M???

[Sam Tetherow]

Didn't one of the articles say the loan was rescinded and that was part 
of the issue (along with the spectrum issue)?


On 10/6/11 10:07 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
All I can say is That is one more potential HUGE competitor that 
is no longer going to be a threat to the small business WISP.
The jingle that keeps ringing in my head is, "another one bites the 
dust, ah".
What I ask is... Did RUS keep or get the Tax Payer's money back? Or 
did it get spent and lost?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

- Original Message -
*From:* Fred Goldstein <mailto:fgoldst...@ionary.com>
*To:* tsharp...@qorvus.com <mailto:tsharp...@qorvus.com> ; WISPA
General List <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 05, 2011 6:01 PM
    *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Open Range Closes: Broadband's Solyndra
@$240M???

At 10/5/2011 05:46 PM, Tom Sharples wrote:

Caution - this may make your ears bleed - strong language :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRmZ9zH-mYM


Yeah, but under the rapper profanity, he displays a profound
ignorance of macroeconomics and monetary policy.  There's a reason
that economics is called "the dismal science".  It is  not
intuitively obvious, and is thus prone to demagoguery.

Open Range, on the other hand, appears to be a simple case of JP
Morgan's influence peddling to get a big loan for a risky venture
from the Bush administration.  I wonder if they will end up losing
their bet, or if there is some trick in there to get JP Morgan
Chase paid back.  Note how Iridium was Motorola's idea, and lost
several billion, but Motorola came out ahead (and Chase, being the
marks that time, lost).



On 10/5/2011 2:21 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:

At 10/5/2011 04:20 PM, Rafman® wrote:

*Open Range Closes:

*http://www.dailywireless.org/2011/10/05/open-range-closes/
*
*Broadband's Solyndra with $240M Federal Funds..?


Interesting, but not surprising given the whole story.

The RUS (part of the USDA) usually just funds incumbent LECs,
not WISPs.  In 2008, Open Range got $100M from JP Morgan Chase
and then a bigger RUS loan.  The plan was to use Globalstar's
ATC frequencies.

Globalstar was a low Earth orbit satellite (LEOsat)
constallation launched in the late 1990s.  I think Qualcomm was
originally behind it; the idea was to be a simple bent-pipe
repeater for CDMA satphones.  They were competing with the
uber-baroque Iridium network, which of course bombed miserably
(I had a bit of an inside seat watching that failure; it was
kind of funny). GlobalStar's original satellites kind of went
haywire in 2007 and some of the replacements have been flaky
too, which is not doing them a lot of good.

Satellites were granted ancillary terrestrial component (ATC)
rights as a way to fill in gaps in satellite coverage; later
this was expanded to permit terrestrial-only users.  That's what
LightSquared is trying to do.  Open Range made a deal to use
GlobalStar's ATC, but something went wrong and the FCC revoked
it in 2010.  So Open Range has some license problems.  All that
money and no place to go.  They were also trying to make a deal
with LightSquared, but I think that was for MVNO use of the
network, not frequency leases.

I think the key difference between Open Range and your basic
WISP is that Open Range wanted to play Wall Street's game:  Take
a lot of money, spend big and fast, and hope for a return.  A
WISPA member can't afford to waste money that way.  I wonder if
Open Range has much cash left.  I don't see how they could have
spent it without access to enough spectrum.

 --
 Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
 ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/
 +1 617 795 2701


 --
 Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
 ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/
 +1 617 795 2701






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Re: [WISPA] Open Range Closes: Broadband's Solyndra @$240M???

[Tom DeReggi]

All I can say is That is one more potential HUGE competitor that is no 
longer going to be a threat to the small business WISP.
The jingle that keeps ringing in my head is, "another one bites the dust, ah". 

What I ask is... Did RUS keep or get the Tax Payer's money back? Or did it get 
spent and lost?
 

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Fred Goldstein 
  To: tsharp...@qorvus.com ; WISPA General List 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 6:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Range Closes: Broadband's Solyndra @$240M???


  At 10/5/2011 05:46 PM, Tom Sharples wrote:

Caution - this may make your ears bleed - strong language :-) 
  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRmZ9zH-mYM 


  Yeah, but under the rapper profanity, he displays a profound ignorance of 
macroeconomics and monetary policy.  There's a reason that economics is called 
"the dismal science".  It is  not intuitively obvious, and is thus prone to 
demagoguery.

  Open Range, on the other hand, appears to be a simple case of JP Morgan's 
influence peddling to get a big loan for a risky venture from the Bush 
administration.  I wonder if they will end up losing their bet, or if there is 
some trick in there to get JP Morgan Chase paid back.  Note how Iridium was 
Motorola's idea, and lost several billion, but Motorola came out ahead (and 
Chase, being the marks that time, lost).



On 10/5/2011 2:21 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote: 

  At 10/5/2011 04:20 PM, Rafman® wrote:

Open Range Closes:

http://www.dailywireless.org/2011/10/05/open-range-closes/

Broadband's Solyndra with $240M Federal Funds..?

  Interesting, but not surprising given the whole story.

  The RUS (part of the USDA) usually just funds incumbent LECs, not WISPs.  
In 2008, Open Range got $100M from JP Morgan Chase and then a bigger RUS loan.  
The plan was to use Globalstar's ATC frequencies.  

  Globalstar was a low Earth orbit satellite (LEOsat) constallation 
launched in the late 1990s.  I think Qualcomm was originally behind it; the 
idea was to be a simple bent-pipe repeater for CDMA satphones.  They were 
competing with the uber-baroque Iridium network, which of course bombed 
miserably (I had a bit of an inside seat watching that failure; it was kind of 
funny). GlobalStar's original satellites kind of went haywire in 2007 and some 
of the replacements have been flaky too, which is not doing them a lot of good.

  Satellites were granted ancillary terrestrial component (ATC) rights as a 
way to fill in gaps in satellite coverage; later this was expanded to permit 
terrestrial-only users.  That's what LightSquared is trying to do.  Open Range 
made a deal to use GlobalStar's ATC, but something went wrong and the FCC 
revoked it in 2010.  So Open Range has some license problems.  All that money 
and no place to go.  They were also trying to make a deal with LightSquared, 
but I think that was for MVNO use of the network, not frequency leases.  

  I think the key difference between Open Range and your basic WISP is that 
Open Range wanted to play Wall Street's game:  Take a lot of money, spend big 
and fast, and hope for a return.  A WISPA member can't afford to waste money 
that way.  I wonder if Open Range has much cash left.  I don't see how they 
could have spent it without access to enough spectrum.

   --
   Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com   
   ionary Consultinghttp://www.ionary.com/ 
   +1 617 795 2701 


   --
   Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com   
   ionary Consultinghttp://www.ionary.com/ 
   +1 617 795 2701 



--




  

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Re: [WISPA] Open Range Closes: Broadband's Solyndra @$240M???

[Greg Ihnen]

It could have been a total scam from the start, but if it was on the up and up 
then they were probably betting that with enough money and time they would 
perfect the technology or manufacturing or what ever it would take to work the 
kinks out and become profitable.

The allure of solar is the impressive amount of energy that falls on a square 
meter. If solar-electric panel manufacturers could get the efficiency well over 
50% it would be a game changer.

What a shame all that money went down the toilet. If there were no viable solar 
companies that could have made real innovations with that money then it should 
have gone elsewhere.

Greg
On Oct 5, 2011, at 6:00 PM, Tom Sharples wrote:

> I'm not familiar with the details on the Open Range deal, however it would be 
> unsurprising if the government (taxpayer) ends up being the sucker.  That's 
> the order of the day (and the last 10 years). The Solyndra deal for example 
> not only rings of crony capitalism but a lack of the most basic technical due 
> diligence. Even the named inventor on their patents stated that the design 
> was unbuildable at reasonable cost. Would you buy a solar power system that 
> came with an oil leak disposal kit as a standard accessory?
> 
> Tom S.
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/5/2011 3:01 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:
>> 
>> At 10/5/2011 05:46 PM, Tom Sharples wrote:
>>> Caution - this may make your ears bleed - strong language :-) 
>>>   
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRmZ9zH-mYM 
>> 
>> Yeah, but under the rapper profanity, he displays a profound ignorance of 
>> macroeconomics and monetary policy.  There's a reason that economics is 
>> called "the dismal science".  It is  not intuitively obvious, and is thus 
>> prone to demagoguery.
>> 
>> Open Range, on the other hand, appears to be a simple case of JP Morgan's 
>> influence peddling to get a big loan for a risky venture from the Bush 
>> administration.  I wonder if they will end up losing their bet, or if there 
>> is some trick in there to get JP Morgan Chase paid back.  Note how Iridium 
>> was Motorola's idea, and lost several billion, but Motorola came out ahead 
>> (and Chase, being the marks that time, lost).
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/5/2011 2:21 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote: 
 At 10/5/2011 04:20 PM, Rafman® wrote:
> Open Range Closes:
> 
> http://www.dailywireless.org/2011/10/05/open-range-closes/
> 
> Broadband's Solyndra with $240M Federal Funds..?
 
 Interesting, but not surprising given the whole story.
 
 The RUS (part of the USDA) usually just funds incumbent LECs, not WISPs.  
 In 2008, Open Range got $100M from JP Morgan Chase and then a bigger RUS 
 loan.  The plan was to use Globalstar's ATC frequencies.  
 
 Globalstar was a low Earth orbit satellite (LEOsat) constallation launched 
 in the late 1990s.  I think Qualcomm was originally behind it; the idea 
 was to be a simple bent-pipe repeater for CDMA satphones.  They were 
 competing with the uber-baroque Iridium network, which of course bombed 
 miserably (I had a bit of an inside seat watching that failure; it was 
 kind of funny). GlobalStar's original satellites kind of went haywire in 
 2007 and some of the replacements have been flaky too, which is not doing 
 them a lot of good.
 
 Satellites were granted ancillary terrestrial component (ATC) rights as a 
 way to fill in gaps in satellite coverage; later this was expanded to 
 permit terrestrial-only users.  That's what LightSquared is trying to do.  
 Open Range made a deal to use GlobalStar's ATC, but something went wrong 
 and the FCC revoked it in 2010.  So Open Range has some license problems.  
 All that money and no place to go.  They were also trying to make a deal 
 with LightSquared, but I think that was for MVNO use of the network, not 
 frequency leases.  
 
 I think the key difference between Open Range and your basic WISP is that 
 Open Range wanted to play Wall Street's game:  Take a lot of money, spend 
 big and fast, and hope for a return.  A WISPA member can't afford to waste 
 money that way.  I wonder if Open Range has much cash left.  I don't see 
 how they could have spent it without access to enough spectrum.
 
  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com   
  ionary Consultinghttp://www.ionary.com/ 
  +1 617 795 2701 
 
>>  --
>>  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com   
>>  ionary Consultinghttp://www.ionary.com/ 
>>  +1 617 795 2701 
>> 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> Version: 9.0.914 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3939 - Release Date: 10/04/11 
>> 23:34:00
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 

Re: [WISPA] Open Range Closes: Broadband's Solyndra @$240M???

[Tom Sharples]

I'm not familiar with the details on the Open Range deal, however it 
would be unsurprising if the government (taxpayer) ends up being the 
sucker.  That's the order of the day (and the last 10 years). The 
Solyndra deal for example not only rings of crony capitalism but a lack 
of the most basic technical due diligence. Even the named inventor on 
their patents stated that the design was unbuildable at reasonable cost. 
Would you buy a solar power system that came with an oil leak disposal 
kit as a standard accessory?


Tom S.



On 10/5/2011 3:01 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:

At 10/5/2011 05:46 PM, Tom Sharples wrote:

Caution - this may make your ears bleed - strong language :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRmZ9zH-mYM


Yeah, but under the rapper profanity, he displays a profound ignorance 
of macroeconomics and monetary policy.  There's a reason that 
economics is called "the dismal science".  It is  not intuitively 
obvious, and is thus prone to demagoguery.


Open Range, on the other hand, appears to be a simple case of JP 
Morgan's influence peddling to get a big loan for a risky venture from 
the Bush administration.  I wonder if they will end up losing their 
bet, or if there is some trick in there to get JP Morgan Chase paid 
back.  Note how Iridium was Motorola's idea, and lost several billion, 
but Motorola came out ahead (and Chase, being the marks that time, lost).




On 10/5/2011 2:21 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:

At 10/5/2011 04:20 PM, Rafman® wrote:

*Open Range Closes:

* http://www.dailywireless.org/2011/10/05/open-range-closes/
*
*Broadband's Solyndra with $240M Federal Funds..?


Interesting, but not surprising given the whole story.

The RUS (part of the USDA) usually just funds incumbent LECs, not 
WISPs.  In 2008, Open Range got $100M from JP Morgan Chase and then 
a bigger RUS loan.  The plan was to use Globalstar's ATC frequencies.


Globalstar was a low Earth orbit satellite (LEOsat) constallation 
launched in the late 1990s.  I think Qualcomm was originally behind 
it; the idea was to be a simple bent-pipe repeater for CDMA 
satphones.  They were competing with the uber-baroque Iridium 
network, which of course bombed miserably (I had a bit of an inside 
seat watching that failure; it was kind of funny). GlobalStar's 
original satellites kind of went haywire in 2007 and some of the 
replacements have been flaky too, which is not doing them a lot of good.


Satellites were granted ancillary terrestrial component (ATC) rights 
as a way to fill in gaps in satellite coverage; later this was 
expanded to permit terrestrial-only users.  That's what LightSquared 
is trying to do.  Open Range made a deal to use GlobalStar's ATC, 
but something went wrong and the FCC revoked it in 2010.  So Open 
Range has some license problems.  All that money and no place to 
go.  They were also trying to make a deal with LightSquared, but I 
think that was for MVNO use of the network, not frequency leases.


I think the key difference between Open Range and your basic WISP is 
that Open Range wanted to play Wall Street's game:  Take a lot of 
money, spend big and fast, and hope for a return.  A WISPA member 
can't afford to waste money that way.  I wonder if Open Range has 
much cash left.  I don't see how they could have spent it without 
access to enough spectrum.


 --
 Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
 ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/
 +1 617 795 2701


 --
 Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
 ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/
 +1 617 795 2701


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.914 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3939 - Release Date: 10/04/11 
23:34:00






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Re: [WISPA] Open Range Closes: Broadband's Solyndra @$240M???

[Fred Goldstein]

At 10/5/2011 05:46 PM, Tom Sharples wrote:

Caution - this may make your ears bleed - strong language :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRmZ9zH-mYM 



Yeah, but under the rapper profanity, he displays a profound 
ignorance of macroeconomics and monetary policy.  There's a reason 
that economics is called "the dismal science".  It is  not 
intuitively obvious, and is thus prone to demagoguery.


Open Range, on the other hand, appears to be a simple case of JP 
Morgan's influence peddling to get a big loan for a risky venture 
from the Bush administration.  I wonder if they will end up losing 
their bet, or if there is some trick in there to get JP Morgan Chase 
paid back.  Note how Iridium was Motorola's idea, and lost several 
billion, but Motorola came out ahead (and Chase, being the marks that 
time, lost).




On 10/5/2011 2:21 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:

At 10/5/2011 04:20 PM, Rafman® wrote:

Open Range Closes:

http://www.dailywireless.org/2011/10/05/open-range-closes/

Broadband's Solyndra with $240M Federal Funds..?


Interesting, but not surprising given the whole story.

The RUS (part of the USDA) usually just funds incumbent LECs, not 
WISPs.  In 2008, Open Range got $100M from JP Morgan Chase and then 
a bigger RUS loan.  The plan was to use Globalstar's ATC frequencies.


Globalstar was a low Earth orbit satellite (LEOsat) constallation 
launched in the late 1990s.  I think Qualcomm was originally behind 
it; the idea was to be a simple bent-pipe repeater for CDMA 
satphones.  They were competing with the uber-baroque Iridium 
network, which of course bombed miserably (I had a bit of an inside 
seat watching that failure; it was kind of funny). GlobalStar's 
original satellites kind of went haywire in 2007 and some of the 
replacements have been flaky too, which is not doing them a lot of good.


Satellites were granted ancillary terrestrial component (ATC) 
rights as a way to fill in gaps in satellite coverage; later this 
was expanded to permit terrestrial-only users.  That's what 
LightSquared is trying to do.  Open Range made a deal to use 
GlobalStar's ATC, but something went wrong and the FCC revoked it 
in 2010.  So Open Range has some license problems.  All that money 
and no place to go.  They were also trying to make a deal with 
LightSquared, but I think that was for MVNO use of the network, not 
frequency leases.


I think the key difference between Open Range and your basic WISP 
is that Open Range wanted to play Wall Street's game:  Take a lot 
of money, spend big and fast, and hope for a return.  A WISPA 
member can't afford to waste money that way.  I wonder if Open 
Range has much cash left.  I don't see how they could have spent it 
without access to enough spectrum.


 --
 Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
 ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
 +1 617 795 2701



 --
 Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
 ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
 +1 617 795 2701 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] Open Range Closes: Broadband's Solyndra @$240M???

[Tom Sharples]

Caution - this may make your ears bleed - strong language :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRmZ9zH-mYM


On 10/5/2011 2:21 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:

At 10/5/2011 04:20 PM, Rafman® wrote:

*Open Range Closes:

* http://www.dailywireless.org/2011/10/05/open-range-closes/
*
*Broadband's Solyndra with $240M Federal Funds..?


Interesting, but not surprising given the whole story.

The RUS (part of the USDA) usually just funds incumbent LECs, not 
WISPs.  In 2008, Open Range got $100M from JP Morgan Chase and then a 
bigger RUS loan.  The plan was to use Globalstar's ATC frequencies.


Globalstar was a low Earth orbit satellite (LEOsat) constallation 
launched in the late 1990s.  I think Qualcomm was originally behind 
it; the idea was to be a simple bent-pipe repeater for CDMA 
satphones.  They were competing with the uber-baroque Iridium network, 
which of course bombed miserably (I had a bit of an inside seat 
watching that failure; it was kind of funny). GlobalStar's original 
satellites kind of went haywire in 2007 and some of the replacements 
have been flaky too, which is not doing them a lot of good.


Satellites were granted ancillary terrestrial component (ATC) rights 
as a way to fill in gaps in satellite coverage; later this was 
expanded to permit terrestrial-only users.  That's what LightSquared 
is trying to do.  Open Range made a deal to use GlobalStar's ATC, but 
something went wrong and the FCC revoked it in 2010.  So Open Range 
has some license problems.  All that money and no place to go.  They 
were also trying to make a deal with LightSquared, but I think that 
was for MVNO use of the network, not frequency leases.


I think the key difference between Open Range and your basic WISP is 
that Open Range wanted to play Wall Street's game:  Take a lot of 
money, spend big and fast, and hope for a return.  A WISPA member 
can't afford to waste money that way.  I wonder if Open Range has much 
cash left.  I don't see how they could have spent it without access to 
enough spectrum.


 --
 Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
 ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/
 +1 617 795 2701




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.914 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3939 - Release Date: 10/04/11 
23:34:00






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Re: [WISPA] Open Range Closes: Broadband's Solyndra @$240M???

[Fred Goldstein]

At 10/5/2011 04:20 PM, Rafman® wrote:

Open Range Closes:

http://www.dailywireless.org/2011/10/05/open-range-closes/

Broadband's Solyndra with $240M Federal Funds..?


Interesting, but not surprising given the whole story.

The RUS (part of the USDA) usually just funds incumbent LECs, not 
WISPs.  In 2008, Open Range got $100M from JP Morgan Chase and then a 
bigger RUS loan.  The plan was to use Globalstar's ATC frequencies.


Globalstar was a low Earth orbit satellite (LEOsat) constallation 
launched in the late 1990s.  I think Qualcomm was originally behind 
it; the idea was to be a simple bent-pipe repeater for CDMA 
satphones.  They were competing with the uber-baroque Iridium 
network, which of course bombed miserably (I had a bit of an inside 
seat watching that failure; it was kind of funny). GlobalStar's 
original satellites kind of went haywire in 2007 and some of the 
replacements have been flaky too, which is not doing them a lot of good.


Satellites were granted ancillary terrestrial component (ATC) rights 
as a way to fill in gaps in satellite coverage; later this was 
expanded to permit terrestrial-only users.  That's what LightSquared 
is trying to do.  Open Range made a deal to use GlobalStar's ATC, but 
something went wrong and the FCC revoked it in 2010.  So Open Range 
has some license problems.  All that money and no place to go.  They 
were also trying to make a deal with LightSquared, but I think that 
was for MVNO use of the network, not frequency leases.


I think the key difference between Open Range and your basic WISP is 
that Open Range wanted to play Wall Street's game:  Take a lot of 
money, spend big and fast, and hope for a return.  A WISPA member 
can't afford to waste money that way.  I wonder if Open Range has 
much cash left.  I don't see how they could have spent it without 
access to enough spectrum.


 --
 Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
 ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
 +1 617 795 2701 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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[WISPA] Open Range Closes: Broadband's Solyndra @$240M???

[Rafman®]

*Open Range Closes:*
*
*
http://www.dailywireless.org/2011/10/05/open-range-closes/
*

Broadband's Solyndra with $240M Federal Funds..?
*
*-**
http://livestream.com/rafwireless
http://www.youtube.com/user/Rafmanne**
http://twitter.com/Rafmanne*
* http://audioboo.fm/Rafmanne
http://picasaweb.google.com/rafwireless*** *<--Photo Albums*

**
  





On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 12:55, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> We are rapidly approaching our max number of attendees.  If you want to go,
> sign up now!
>
> If you miss it, you won't be able to say that you were there!  :-)
>
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>
> Jeff
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick
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