[WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should have 5-degrees up/down tilt, and using the WB dishes see -59dBm. We're seeing only -80dBm on both polarities. Cables are new, professionally made and tested. Pigtails are new, tested. Radios are new, tested. WB dishes... on one end, we have up-tilt of about 2 degrees. On the other end, we have down-tilt of about 8 degrees. Moving a couple degress each way (or, setting both at 5, like RM says) gets almost no signal at all. One is WB 58DP, one is the same, but with the high-performance shroud. Any thoughts? Bad antenna on one end? Jayson WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
I assume you checked for reverse polarization? Jayson Baker wrote: > Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. > > RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should have 5-degrees up/down tilt, and using > the WB dishes see -59dBm. > > We're seeing only -80dBm on both polarities. > > Cables are new, professionally made and tested. Pigtails are new, tested. > Radios are new, tested. > > WB dishes... on one end, we have up-tilt of about 2 degrees. > On the other end, we have down-tilt of about 8 degrees. > Moving a couple degress each way (or, setting both at 5, like RM says) gets > almost no signal at all. > > One is WB 58DP, one is the same, but with the high-performance shroud. > > Any thoughts? Bad antenna on one end? > > Jayson > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
Doubt the antenna itself is bad. Many DP feeds have no electronics in them just the connectors and a open air column so depending on type of feed I doubt it is the feed itself. My guess is it's more of a incorrect installed feed than anything. On the cabling have you had it tested for 5GHz operations? I ran across many cables and connectors that are not and each connector might cause 2-3dB signal loss easily and possibly even more the twice expected cable loss on the cabling. You say that cables and pigtails been tested just not how. /Eje --Original Message-- From: Jayson Baker Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: WISPA General List ReplyTo: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy Sent: Oct 7, 2009 13:08 Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should have 5-degrees up/down tilt, and using the WB dishes see -59dBm. We're seeing only -80dBm on both polarities. Cables are new, professionally made and tested. Pigtails are new, tested. Radios are new, tested. WB dishes... on one end, we have up-tilt of about 2 degrees. On the other end, we have down-tilt of about 8 degrees. Moving a couple degress each way (or, setting both at 5, like RM says) gets almost no signal at all. One is WB 58DP, one is the same, but with the high-performance shroud. Any thoughts? Bad antenna on one end? Jayson WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
Yeah, we flipped polarity. It's an 802.11n link, so shouldn't "matter" but changed anyway. No difference. Tried chain 0, chain 1, chain 0+1, no difference. Cables came from Tessco, are brand Wireless Solutions I think. 3' long. Times cable, but look like RFI connectors. The bag they came in said "professionally assembled and tested" - we've used the same on other sites without issue. The feed assembly looks to be in correctly. Not much way to screw that up on these antennas. My concern of one being bad or something is related to the fact that 2-degrees on one end, and 8-degrees on another seems really odd. lol, I don't think the other site is further down than this site is up. Jayson On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: > I assume you checked for reverse polarization? > > > > Jayson Baker wrote: > > Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. > > > > RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should have 5-degrees up/down tilt, and > using > > the WB dishes see -59dBm. > > > > We're seeing only -80dBm on both polarities. > > > > Cables are new, professionally made and tested. Pigtails are new, > tested. > > Radios are new, tested. > > > > WB dishes... on one end, we have up-tilt of about 2 degrees. > > On the other end, we have down-tilt of about 8 degrees. > > Moving a couple degress each way (or, setting both at 5, like RM says) > gets > > almost no signal at all. > > > > One is WB 58DP, one is the same, but with the high-performance shroud. > > > > Any thoughts? Bad antenna on one end? > > > > Jayson > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
What radios? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:42 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy Yeah, we flipped polarity. It's an 802.11n link, so shouldn't "matter" but changed anyway. No difference. Tried chain 0, chain 1, chain 0+1, no difference. Cables came from Tessco, are brand Wireless Solutions I think. 3' long. Times cable, but look like RFI connectors. The bag they came in said "professionally assembled and tested" - we've used the same on other sites without issue. The feed assembly looks to be in correctly. Not much way to screw that up on these antennas. My concern of one being bad or something is related to the fact that 2-degrees on one end, and 8-degrees on another seems really odd. lol, I don't think the other site is further down than this site is up. Jayson On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: > I assume you checked for reverse polarization? > > > > Jayson Baker wrote: > > Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. > > > > RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should have 5-degrees up/down tilt, and > using > > the WB dishes see -59dBm. > > > > We're seeing only -80dBm on both polarities. > > > > Cables are new, professionally made and tested. Pigtails are new, > tested. > > Radios are new, tested. > > > > WB dishes... on one end, we have up-tilt of about 2 degrees. > > On the other end, we have down-tilt of about 8 degrees. > > Moving a couple degress each way (or, setting both at 5, like RM says) > gets > > almost no signal at all. > > > > One is WB 58DP, one is the same, but with the high-performance shroud. > > > > Any thoughts? Bad antenna on one end? > > > > Jayson > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
MT R52N On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: > What radios? > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Jayson Baker > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:42 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy > > Yeah, we flipped polarity. It's an 802.11n link, so shouldn't "matter" but > changed anyway. No difference. Tried chain 0, chain 1, chain 0+1, no > difference. > > Cables came from Tessco, are brand Wireless Solutions I think. 3' long. > Times cable, but look like RFI connectors. The bag they came in said > "professionally assembled and tested" - we've used the same on other sites > without issue. > > The feed assembly looks to be in correctly. Not much way to screw that up > on these antennas. My concern of one being bad or something is related to > the fact that 2-degrees on one end, and 8-degrees on another seems really > odd. > > lol, I don't think the other site is further down than this site is up. > > Jayson > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: > > > I assume you checked for reverse polarization? > > > > > > > > Jayson Baker wrote: > > > Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. > > > > > > RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should have 5-degrees up/down tilt, and > > using > > > the WB dishes see -59dBm. > > > > > > We're seeing only -80dBm on both polarities. > > > > > > Cables are new, professionally made and tested. Pigtails are new, > > tested. > > > Radios are new, tested. > > > > > > WB dishes... on one end, we have up-tilt of about 2 degrees. > > > On the other end, we have down-tilt of about 8 degrees. > > > Moving a couple degress each way (or, setting both at 5, like RM says) > > gets > > > almost no signal at all. > > > > > > One is WB 58DP, one is the same, but with the high-performance shroud. > > > > > > Any thoughts? Bad antenna on one end? > > > > > > Jayson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
Mystery 30dB is a lot to lose. I would suspect a feed horn issue or dish alignment. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:46 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy MT R52N On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: > What radios? > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Jayson Baker > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:42 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy > > Yeah, we flipped polarity. It's an 802.11n link, so shouldn't "matter" but > changed anyway. No difference. Tried chain 0, chain 1, chain 0+1, no > difference. > > Cables came from Tessco, are brand Wireless Solutions I think. 3' long. > Times cable, but look like RFI connectors. The bag they came in said > "professionally assembled and tested" - we've used the same on other sites > without issue. > > The feed assembly looks to be in correctly. Not much way to screw that up > on these antennas. My concern of one being bad or something is related to > the fact that 2-degrees on one end, and 8-degrees on another seems really > odd. > > lol, I don't think the other site is further down than this site is up. > > Jayson > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: > > > I assume you checked for reverse polarization? > > > > > > > > Jayson Baker wrote: > > > Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. > > > > > > RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should have 5-degrees up/down tilt, and > > using > > > the WB dishes see -59dBm. > > > > > > We're seeing only -80dBm on both polarities. > > > > > > Cables are new, professionally made and tested. Pigtails are new, > > tested. > > > Radios are new, tested. > > > > > > WB dishes... on one end, we have up-tilt of about 2 degrees. > > > On the other end, we have down-tilt of about 8 degrees. > > > Moving a couple degress each way (or, setting both at 5, like RM says) > > gets > > > almost no signal at all. > > > > > > One is WB 58DP, one is the same, but with the high-performance shroud. > > > > > > Any thoughts? Bad antenna on one end? > > > > > > Jayson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
Or polarity... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth." --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: > Mystery > > 30dB is a lot to lose. I would suspect a feed horn issue or dish alignment. > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Jayson Baker > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:46 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy > > MT R52N > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Jerry Richardson > wrote: > > > What radios? > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Jayson Baker > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:42 AM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy > > > > Yeah, we flipped polarity. It's an 802.11n link, so shouldn't "matter" > but > > changed anyway. No difference. Tried chain 0, chain 1, chain 0+1, no > > difference. > > > > Cables came from Tessco, are brand Wireless Solutions I think. 3' long. > > Times cable, but look like RFI connectors. The bag they came in said > > "professionally assembled and tested" - we've used the same on other > sites > > without issue. > > > > The feed assembly looks to be in correctly. Not much way to screw that > up > > on these antennas. My concern of one being bad or something is related > to > > the fact that 2-degrees on one end, and 8-degrees on another seems really > > odd. > > > > lol, I don't think the other site is further down than this site is up. > > > > Jayson > > > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Randy Cosby > wrote: > > > > > I assume you checked for reverse polarization? > > > > > > > > > > > > Jayson Baker wrote: > > > > Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. > > > > > > > > RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should have 5-degrees up/down tilt, > and > > > using > > > > the WB dishes see -59dBm. > > > > > > > > We're seeing only -80dBm on both polarities. > > > > > > > > Cables are new, professionally made and tested. Pigtails are new, > > > tested. > > > > Radios are new, tested. > > > > > > > > WB dishes... on one end, we have up-tilt of about 2 degrees. > > > > On the other end, we have down-tilt of about 8 degrees. > > > > Moving a couple degress each way (or, setting both at 5, like RM > says) > > > gets > > > > almost no signal at all. > > > > > > > > One is WB 58DP, one is the same, but with the high-performance > shroud. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? Bad antenna on one end? > > > > > > > > Jayson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > >
Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
We switched the polarity -- made no difference at all. Just scanning for other radios in the area (or at the same site) the signals look a little low too. Pigtails are from different shipments about 2 years apart on either end. But the jumper cables are the same. I wonder if we got a bad batch of cables. But then... that doesn't explain the weird alignment. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: > Or polarity... > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however > improbable, must be the truth." > --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle > > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Jerry Richardson > wrote: > > > Mystery > > > > 30dB is a lot to lose. I would suspect a feed horn issue or dish > alignment. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Jayson Baker > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:46 AM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy > > > > MT R52N > > > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Jerry Richardson > > wrote: > > > > > What radios? > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > > > Behalf Of Jayson Baker > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:42 AM > > > To: WISPA General List > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy > > > > > > Yeah, we flipped polarity. It's an 802.11n link, so shouldn't "matter" > > but > > > changed anyway. No difference. Tried chain 0, chain 1, chain 0+1, no > > > difference. > > > > > > Cables came from Tessco, are brand Wireless Solutions I think. 3' > long. > > > Times cable, but look like RFI connectors. The bag they came in said > > > "professionally assembled and tested" - we've used the same on other > > sites > > > without issue. > > > > > > The feed assembly looks to be in correctly. Not much way to screw that > > up > > > on these antennas. My concern of one being bad or something is related > > to > > > the fact that 2-degrees on one end, and 8-degrees on another seems > really > > > odd. > > > > > > lol, I don't think the other site is further down than this site is up. > > > > > > Jayson > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Randy Cosby > > wrote: > > > > > > > I assume you checked for reverse polarization? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jayson Baker wrote: > > > > > Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. > > > > > > > > > > RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should have 5-degrees up/down tilt, > > and > > > > using > > > > > the WB dishes see -59dBm. > > > > > > > > > > We're seeing only -80dBm on both polarities. > > > > > > > > > > Cables are new, professionally made and tested. Pigtails are new, > > > > tested. > > > > > Radios are new, tested. > > > > > > > > > > WB dishes... on one end, we have up-tilt of about 2 degrees. > > > > > On the other end, we have down-tilt of about 8 degrees. > > > > > Moving a couple degress each way (or, setting both at 5, like RM > > says) > > > > gets > > > > > almost no signal at all. > > > > > > > > > > One is WB 58DP, one is the same, but with the high-performance > > shroud. > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? Bad antenna on one end? > > > > > > > > > > Jayson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > &g
Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
Tried flip pol on just one end instead of on both at the same time? On the tilt sounds like your hitting strong side lobes which sometimes can give better gain the main but the side lobes are usually very narrow so little movement can change signal a lot. Consider the antenna probably has a 6 deg beam that means 8/2 is just the edge. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Jayson Baker Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:09:55 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy We switched the polarity -- made no difference at all. Just scanning for other radios in the area (or at the same site) the signals look a little low too. Pigtails are from different shipments about 2 years apart on either end. But the jumper cables are the same. I wonder if we got a bad batch of cables. But then... that doesn't explain the weird alignment. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: > Or polarity... > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however > improbable, must be the truth." > --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle > > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Jerry Richardson > wrote: > > > Mystery > > > > 30dB is a lot to lose. I would suspect a feed horn issue or dish > alignment. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Jayson Baker > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:46 AM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy > > > > MT R52N > > > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Jerry Richardson > > wrote: > > > > > What radios? > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > > > Behalf Of Jayson Baker > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:42 AM > > > To: WISPA General List > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy > > > > > > Yeah, we flipped polarity. It's an 802.11n link, so shouldn't "matter" > > but > > > changed anyway. No difference. Tried chain 0, chain 1, chain 0+1, no > > > difference. > > > > > > Cables came from Tessco, are brand Wireless Solutions I think. 3' > long. > > > Times cable, but look like RFI connectors. The bag they came in said > > > "professionally assembled and tested" - we've used the same on other > > sites > > > without issue. > > > > > > The feed assembly looks to be in correctly. Not much way to screw that > > up > > > on these antennas. My concern of one being bad or something is related > > to > > > the fact that 2-degrees on one end, and 8-degrees on another seems > really > > > odd. > > > > > > lol, I don't think the other site is further down than this site is up. > > > > > > Jayson > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Randy Cosby > > wrote: > > > > > > > I assume you checked for reverse polarization? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jayson Baker wrote: > > > > > Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. > > > > > > > > > > RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should have 5-degrees up/down tilt, > > and > > > > using > > > > > the WB dishes see -59dBm. > > > > > > > > > > We're seeing only -80dBm on both polarities. > > > > > > > > > > Cables are new, professionally made and tested. Pigtails are new, > > > > tested. > > > > > Radios are new, tested. > > > > > > > > > > WB dishes... on one end, we have up-tilt of about 2 degrees. > > > > > On the other end, we have down-tilt of about 8 degrees. > > > > > Moving a couple degress each way (or, setting both at 5, like RM > > says) > > > > gets > > > > > almost no signal at all. > > > > > > > > > > One is WB 58DP, one is the same, but with the high-performance > > shroud. > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? Bad antenna on one end? > > > > > > > > > > Jayson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
Only flipped pol on ONE end. Nobody at the other end to flip. It does make a difference on that chain, but not overall. Meaning... If chain 0 is enabled, signal is -80, I flip polarity then I get nothing unless I enable chain 1. Makes sense what you're saying about the alignment. I've tried going waaay up and wy down, thinking maybe where I'm at is just a strong lobe. No difference. If I go more than about 2 degrees off, the signal gets so low that it will never connect. Moving the dish slowly (or using the secur-align bolt) is the same. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:19 PM, wrote: > Tried flip pol on just one end instead of on both at the same time? > > On the tilt sounds like your hitting strong side lobes which sometimes can > give better gain the main but the side lobes are usually very narrow so > little movement can change signal a lot. > Consider the antenna probably has a 6 deg beam that means 8/2 is just the > edge. > > /Eje > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -Original Message- > From: Jayson Baker > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:09:55 > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy > > We switched the polarity -- made no difference at all. > > Just scanning for other radios in the area (or at the same site) the > signals > look a little low too. > > Pigtails are from different shipments about 2 years apart on either end. > But the jumper cables are the same. I wonder if we got a bad batch of > cables. > > But then... that doesn't explain the weird alignment. > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Josh Luthman >wrote: > > > Or polarity... > > > > Josh Luthman > > Office: 937-552-2340 > > Direct: 937-552-2343 > > 1100 Wayne St > > Suite 1337 > > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however > > improbable, must be the truth." > > --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Jerry Richardson > > wrote: > > > > > Mystery > > > > > > 30dB is a lot to lose. I would suspect a feed horn issue or dish > > alignment. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > > > Behalf Of Jayson Baker > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:46 AM > > > To: WISPA General List > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy > > > > > > MT R52N > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Jerry Richardson > > > wrote: > > > > > > > What radios? > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > On > > > > Behalf Of Jayson Baker > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:42 AM > > > > To: WISPA General List > > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy > > > > > > > > Yeah, we flipped polarity. It's an 802.11n link, so shouldn't > "matter" > > > but > > > > changed anyway. No difference. Tried chain 0, chain 1, chain 0+1, > no > > > > difference. > > > > > > > > Cables came from Tessco, are brand Wireless Solutions I think. 3' > > long. > > > > Times cable, but look like RFI connectors. The bag they came in said > > > > "professionally assembled and tested" - we've used the same on other > > > sites > > > > without issue. > > > > > > > > The feed assembly looks to be in correctly. Not much way to screw > that > > > up > > > > on these antennas. My concern of one being bad or something is > related > > > to > > > > the fact that 2-degrees on one end, and 8-degrees on another seems > > really > > > > odd. > > > > > > > > lol, I don't think the other site is further down than this site is > up. > > > > > > > > Jayson > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Randy Cosby > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I assume you checked for reverse polarization? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jayson Baker wrote: > > > > > > Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. > > > > > > > > > > > > RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should h
Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
6 dB difference at the ends? It sounds like the weaker link might be seeing an incidental signal from a reflection source. Have you tried setting the link to 20 MHz or 10 MHz channels? If it is severe multipath a minor change in height may make a big difference. Water tower or big steel building close to the link? At 01:41 PM 10/7/2009, you wrote: >Yeah, we flipped polarity. It's an 802.11n link, so shouldn't "matter" but >changed anyway. No difference. Tried chain 0, chain 1, chain 0+1, no >difference. > >Cables came from Tessco, are brand Wireless Solutions I think. 3' long. >Times cable, but look like RFI connectors. The bag they came in said >"professionally assembled and tested" - we've used the same on other sites >without issue. > >The feed assembly looks to be in correctly. Not much way to screw that up >on these antennas. My concern of one being bad or something is related to >the fact that 2-degrees on one end, and 8-degrees on another seems really >odd. > >lol, I don't think the other site is further down than this site is up. > >Jayson > >On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: > > > I assume you checked for reverse polarization? > > > > > > > > Jayson Baker wrote: > > > Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. > > > > > > RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should have 5-degrees up/down tilt, and > > using > > > the WB dishes see -59dBm. > > > > > > We're seeing only -80dBm on both polarities. > > > > > > Cables are new, professionally made and tested. Pigtails are new, > > tested. > > > Radios are new, tested. > > > > > > WB dishes... on one end, we have up-tilt of about 2 degrees. > > > On the other end, we have down-tilt of about 8 degrees. > > > Moving a couple degress each way (or, setting both at 5, like RM says) > > gets > > > almost no signal at all. > > > > > > One is WB 58DP, one is the same, but with the high-performance shroud. > > > > > > Any thoughts? Bad antenna on one end? > > > > > > Jayson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
I will try that. The link is clear. One end atop a 12-story building. The other end is on the side of a house. Elevation at the building is about 6200', house is probably around 9000' On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Mike wrote: > 6 dB difference at the ends? It sounds like the weaker link might be > seeing an incidental signal from a reflection source. Have you tried > setting the link to 20 MHz or 10 MHz channels? If it is severe > multipath a minor change in height may make a big difference. Water > tower or big steel building close to the link? > > At 01:41 PM 10/7/2009, you wrote: > >Yeah, we flipped polarity. It's an 802.11n link, so shouldn't "matter" > but > >changed anyway. No difference. Tried chain 0, chain 1, chain 0+1, no > >difference. > > > >Cables came from Tessco, are brand Wireless Solutions I think. 3' long. > >Times cable, but look like RFI connectors. The bag they came in said > >"professionally assembled and tested" - we've used the same on other sites > >without issue. > > > >The feed assembly looks to be in correctly. Not much way to screw that up > >on these antennas. My concern of one being bad or something is related to > >the fact that 2-degrees on one end, and 8-degrees on another seems really > >odd. > > > >lol, I don't think the other site is further down than this site is up. > > > >Jayson > > > >On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: > > > > > I assume you checked for reverse polarization? > > > > > > > > > > > > Jayson Baker wrote: > > > > Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. > > > > > > > > RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should have 5-degrees up/down tilt, > and > > > using > > > > the WB dishes see -59dBm. > > > > > > > > We're seeing only -80dBm on both polarities. > > > > > > > > Cables are new, professionally made and tested. Pigtails are new, > > > tested. > > > > Radios are new, tested. > > > > > > > > WB dishes... on one end, we have up-tilt of about 2 degrees. > > > > On the other end, we have down-tilt of about 8 degrees. > > > > Moving a couple degress each way (or, setting both at 5, like RM > says) > > > gets > > > > almost no signal at all. > > > > > > > > One is WB 58DP, one is the same, but with the high-performance > shroud. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? Bad antenna on one end? > > > > > > > > Jayson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
Spent another couple minutes on this link today. This is really strange... The 58DP end, when in 802.11a mode actually picks up a few other sites, at decent signal. About what I'd expect to pick up the other sites at. The 58DP w/ shroud end, which is right downtown picks up nothing. At all. It should be picking up a bunch of garbage from everywhere. So that leaves the question... is the shroud so well designed, and the dish so high-performance, that it's not picking up anything because of its design? Is the alignment super-tight on the dish with shroud? Nobody checked the plumb-ness of the arm before sticking the dish on it, maybe that's why the elevation angles are different from both ends? Maybe I should try taking the dish w/ shroud out of the equation, and just stick a rootenna on that end or something, just to test with? Any ideas or help appreciated Jayson On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Jayson Baker wrote: > I will try that. The link is clear. One end atop a 12-story building. > The other end is on the side of a house. > Elevation at the building is about 6200', house is probably around 9000' > > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Mike wrote: > >> 6 dB difference at the ends? It sounds like the weaker link might be >> seeing an incidental signal from a reflection source. Have you tried >> setting the link to 20 MHz or 10 MHz channels? If it is severe >> multipath a minor change in height may make a big difference. Water >> tower or big steel building close to the link? >> >> At 01:41 PM 10/7/2009, you wrote: >> >Yeah, we flipped polarity. It's an 802.11n link, so shouldn't "matter" >> but >> >changed anyway. No difference. Tried chain 0, chain 1, chain 0+1, no >> >difference. >> > >> >Cables came from Tessco, are brand Wireless Solutions I think. 3' long. >> >Times cable, but look like RFI connectors. The bag they came in said >> >"professionally assembled and tested" - we've used the same on other >> sites >> >without issue. >> > >> >The feed assembly looks to be in correctly. Not much way to screw that >> up >> >on these antennas. My concern of one being bad or something is related >> to >> >the fact that 2-degrees on one end, and 8-degrees on another seems really >> >odd. >> > >> >lol, I don't think the other site is further down than this site is up. >> > >> >Jayson >> > >> >On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Randy Cosby >> wrote: >> > >> > > I assume you checked for reverse polarization? >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Jayson Baker wrote: >> > > > Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. >> > > > >> > > > RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should have 5-degrees up/down tilt, >> and >> > > using >> > > > the WB dishes see -59dBm. >> > > > >> > > > We're seeing only -80dBm on both polarities. >> > > > >> > > > Cables are new, professionally made and tested. Pigtails are new, >> > > tested. >> > > > Radios are new, tested. >> > > > >> > > > WB dishes... on one end, we have up-tilt of about 2 degrees. >> > > > On the other end, we have down-tilt of about 8 degrees. >> > > > Moving a couple degress each way (or, setting both at 5, like RM >> says) >> > > gets >> > > > almost no signal at all. >> > > > >> > > > One is WB 58DP, one is the same, but with the high-performance >> shroud. >> > > > >> > > > Any thoughts? Bad antenna on one end? >> > > > >> > > > Jayson >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > > >> > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> > > > >> > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> > > > >> > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> > > http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > >> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> > > >> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> > > >> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > >> > >> > >> >> > >> >WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> > >> > >> >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> > >> >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> > >> >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wis
Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP - 20dB off? WAS: Candy
FYI... thanks to Chuck and WB this link is up and working. WB sent us a new dish, overnight, at no charge to see if that fixed this link. The new dish DID get the link up. From -85 to -59 now. It was either a bad dish, or mis-aligned. Seems we were aligning with the red marker on the dish (i.e. same as a DISH Network dish), and the WB sticker on the dish is for the BOLT (not the red marker). I thought we checked that, but maybe not. It's been a while now. Either way, thanks very much to Beehive for working with us on this. We'll be buying these dishes going forward for all our links! And thanks to everyone else to had input. Jayson On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Jayson Baker wrote: > Spent another couple minutes on this link today. This is really strange... > > The 58DP end, when in 802.11a mode actually picks up a few other sites, at > decent signal. About what I'd expect to pick up the other sites at. > > The 58DP w/ shroud end, which is right downtown picks up nothing. At all. > It should be picking up a bunch of garbage from everywhere. > So that leaves the question... is the shroud so well designed, and the dish > so high-performance, that it's not picking up anything because of its > design? > Is the alignment super-tight on the dish with shroud? Nobody checked the > plumb-ness of the arm before sticking the dish on it, maybe that's why the > elevation angles are different from both ends? > Maybe I should try taking the dish w/ shroud out of the equation, and just > stick a rootenna on that end or something, just to test with? > > Any ideas or help appreciated > Jayson > > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Jayson Baker wrote: > >> I will try that. The link is clear. One end atop a 12-story building. >> The other end is on the side of a house. >> Elevation at the building is about 6200', house is probably around 9000' >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Mike wrote: >> >>> 6 dB difference at the ends? It sounds like the weaker link might be >>> seeing an incidental signal from a reflection source. Have you tried >>> setting the link to 20 MHz or 10 MHz channels? If it is severe >>> multipath a minor change in height may make a big difference. Water >>> tower or big steel building close to the link? >>> >>> At 01:41 PM 10/7/2009, you wrote: >>> >Yeah, we flipped polarity. It's an 802.11n link, so shouldn't "matter" >>> but >>> >changed anyway. No difference. Tried chain 0, chain 1, chain 0+1, no >>> >difference. >>> > >>> >Cables came from Tessco, are brand Wireless Solutions I think. 3' long. >>> >Times cable, but look like RFI connectors. The bag they came in said >>> >"professionally assembled and tested" - we've used the same on other >>> sites >>> >without issue. >>> > >>> >The feed assembly looks to be in correctly. Not much way to screw that >>> up >>> >on these antennas. My concern of one being bad or something is related >>> to >>> >the fact that 2-degrees on one end, and 8-degrees on another seems >>> really >>> >odd. >>> > >>> >lol, I don't think the other site is further down than this site is up. >>> > >>> >Jayson >>> > >>> >On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Randy Cosby >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > > I assume you checked for reverse polarization? >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Jayson Baker wrote: >>> > > > Got back to both ends of our WB 5.8GHz links today. >>> > > > >>> > > > RadioMobile says it's 10km, we should have 5-degrees up/down tilt, >>> and >>> > > using >>> > > > the WB dishes see -59dBm. >>> > > > >>> > > > We're seeing only -80dBm on both polarities. >>> > > > >>> > > > Cables are new, professionally made and tested. Pigtails are new, >>> > > tested. >>> > > > Radios are new, tested. >>> > > > >>> > > > WB dishes... on one end, we have up-tilt of about 2 degrees. >>> > > > On the other end, we have down-tilt of about 8 degrees. >>> > > > Moving a couple degress each way (or, setting both at 5, like RM >>> says) >>> > > gets >>> > > > almost no signal at all. >>> > > > >>> > > > One is WB 58DP, one is the same, but with the high-performance >>> shroud. >>> > > > >>> > > > Any thoughts? Bad antenna on one end? >>> > > > >>> > > > Jayson >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> > > > >>> > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> > > > >>> > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> > > > >>> > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> > > http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> ---
