Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
Its is possible to make money in service at $40/hr, if it is the right circumstance. For example, in our prime generally charging $125/hr average, we still took contractor work from resellers as low as $35/hr. But the difference was that the reseller incurred all the other cost (sales, advertising, no pays, covered cash flow,etc). We could expect to get an order every day, didn;t have to do anything but call the customer to tell them when we'd arrive, all else was taken care of. We had two-three days to respond for cost effective scheduling/travel. So we used it as filler work. We did our customers first, and then added efficiencies by tacking on the lower revenue work located near by. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service Mike, Charge what you want, but you are making the big mistake that many make, that end up failing. "Under estimating costs." Even less complicated and less challenging field service professions or even carry-in commodity shops charge more than that, (Your heating/AC guy, Mechanic, Landscaper, Exterminator, CompUSA, etc), there is a reason. Its better to OVERCHARGE, and then have the margin to stand behind, warrant, and discount your work as needed thereafter. You get more perceived value by doing that. When you set your rates high, you establish a higher worth of your time, and then when you are required to discount, a higher value is put on it by the clients. Charging $40, is admission that you are only worth $40, and that means services delivered perfectly and warranted in the customer's mind. What people under estimate most is the cost of Recalls and Warrantee. You may charge someone for 1 hour ($40/hr) with little travel costs incurred when scheduled conveniently. But then if there is a recall, to go back it might not be efficient, possibly a special trip, and ends up being 3 hours of your time for free, now making your labor rate $10/hr. When you charge for your recalls, and they will happen, it looks MUCH worse to the customer, than just charging a higher rate in the first place. Then problem two is scaling it. Business sure is easy when you are the only guy, can handle the work load yuorself, have free time, work just comes in, calls forwarded to the cell phone, and you are in control of the quality. But as you grow you learn that Staff needs to be managed, and business needs to be sold, it does not sell itself, and you can't complete work and answer phones at the same time. I can share some IBM statisitics for you (from my service management past life) They stated that to pay for the salary of a single field service staff member, they allocated 400 computers supported per Field staff member. They stated for every Dollar paid to the Field tech, they had to bill 8 times that dollar, to cover all the overhead costs of doing the business, to be profitable. So if you want to pay yourself $20/hour, you need to charge $160 / hour. Trust that to be true, and then challenge yourself to figure out why and how they came up with that number 8X. Such as... accounting, invoicing, collections, service fees, warrantee, purchasing, finance, Profit for investors, overhead, travel/vehichle, management, training, benefits, R&D, communications, forms/material, utilities, and getting through the slow and tough times when guys are on salary and the phone aint ringing. It happens. Its much harder to increase your rates after you have established yourself as a lower worth. For example, starting out, they get the top dog CEO for $40/hour. Then when you grow, you find your hired help is not as good, but you learn they need to bill more, for you t obe profitable. So now your trying to tell the customer that you need to charge them $60/hour for a less qualified technician. People Lose customers over this. Its also fun when you learned you paid your tech for 40 hours, but he only turned in 20hrs of invoices. These comments are based on Field Service Repair for per insodent maintenance. This may not apply to long term technical staff placement. As the overhead costs are much different, when someone is just scheduled to show up on a scheduled basis for long periods, paid for straight time, regardless of quality of work, and no bill tracking. I highly recommend that you do not sell services under market, by more than $5/hr less or so. Its not necessary, and in the long run it will come back to haunt you. Been there done that. What you need to do is get the phone book and start calling, pretend to be a customer, and determine average market rate in your neighborhood. And don't do much less. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wi
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
Mike, Charge what you want, but you are making the big mistake that many make, that end up failing. "Under estimating costs." Even less complicated and less challenging field service professions or even carry-in commodity shops charge more than that, (Your heating/AC guy, Mechanic, Landscaper, Exterminator, CompUSA, etc), there is a reason. Its better to OVERCHARGE, and then have the margin to stand behind, warrant, and discount your work as needed thereafter. You get more perceived value by doing that. When you set your rates high, you establish a higher worth of your time, and then when you are required to discount, a higher value is put on it by the clients. Charging $40, is admission that you are only worth $40, and that means services delivered perfectly and warranted in the customer's mind. What people under estimate most is the cost of Recalls and Warrantee. You may charge someone for 1 hour ($40/hr) with little travel costs incurred when scheduled conveniently. But then if there is a recall, to go back it might not be efficient, possibly a special trip, and ends up being 3 hours of your time for free, now making your labor rate $10/hr. When you charge for your recalls, and they will happen, it looks MUCH worse to the customer, than just charging a higher rate in the first place. Then problem two is scaling it. Business sure is easy when you are the only guy, can handle the work load yuorself, have free time, work just comes in, calls forwarded to the cell phone, and you are in control of the quality. But as you grow you learn that Staff needs to be managed, and business needs to be sold, it does not sell itself, and you can't complete work and answer phones at the same time. I can share some IBM statisitics for you (from my service management past life) They stated that to pay for the salary of a single field service staff member, they allocated 400 computers supported per Field staff member. They stated for every Dollar paid to the Field tech, they had to bill 8 times that dollar, to cover all the overhead costs of doing the business, to be profitable. So if you want to pay yourself $20/hour, you need to charge $160 / hour. Trust that to be true, and then challenge yourself to figure out why and how they came up with that number 8X. Such as... accounting, invoicing, collections, service fees, warrantee, purchasing, finance, Profit for investors, overhead, travel/vehichle, management, training, benefits, R&D, communications, forms/material, utilities, and getting through the slow and tough times when guys are on salary and the phone aint ringing. It happens. Its much harder to increase your rates after you have established yourself as a lower worth. For example, starting out, they get the top dog CEO for $40/hour. Then when you grow, you find your hired help is not as good, but you learn they need to bill more, for you t obe profitable. So now your trying to tell the customer that you need to charge them $60/hour for a less qualified technician. People Lose customers over this. Its also fun when you learned you paid your tech for 40 hours, but he only turned in 20hrs of invoices. These comments are based on Field Service Repair for per insodent maintenance. This may not apply to long term technical staff placement. As the overhead costs are much different, when someone is just scheduled to show up on a scheduled basis for long periods, paid for straight time, regardless of quality of work, and no bill tracking. I highly recommend that you do not sell services under market, by more than $5/hr less or so. Its not necessary, and in the long run it will come back to haunt you. Been there done that. What you need to do is get the phone book and start calling, pretend to be a customer, and determine average market rate in your neighborhood. And don't do much less. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service Currently it is only myself, so I pocket 100% of it. I'll expand upon my thoughts not to defend my price, but to say where I'm coming from in an attempt to figure out if my current system won't scale or if everyone else is just screwing their customers. That said, I don't see how all of those things really add up to that much money. At $20/hour, that's just under $42k/year for a full time employee. Make that just over $43k after you figure in unemployment, social security, and Medicare. I only pay income tax on what I profit, so that's not part of the equation. Office space and use is pretty cheap. $250 for the whole office, I have options on other office spaces in the building. Most any problem can be qui
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
Oh! and remember, in those urban areas the Geek Squad is there to steal your porn... er.. help you with your computer problems.. http://www.geeksquad.com/pricing/ Look at this pricing, figure out how long it takes for you to do something on this list and upsell the client on something they don't need and then look at your rates. Example: http://www.geeksquad.com/services/detail.aspx?id=163 So they come in, turn on WEP or WPA for $59, tell you how many hacker types may have been in your computer, they they upsell you $49 for "computer optimization" and an additional $49 for a "PC Safety Check". Before they leave you are out 160 bucks! (plus hardware!) ryan On Aug 15, 2007, at 5:31 PM, D. Ryan Spott wrote: Totally random notes: My rate is $70 an hour _if_ the customer signs up for 1 year of service with me @ 1/2 hour per machine per month. The customer likes this because they know how much they are paying a month, every month. Basically they get an IT department looking out for them without having to hire an IT department. I do a quasi-rollover-minutes thing with them and always note "this is un-billed as I did not use all of the time you paid for last month!" Make sure to ALWAYS print what they got for free EVERY month on their invoice. Even if the decision makers do not see that text, the bill payers will and they will tell the decision makers to rehire you as they see you are a bargain. The customer get all the bells an whistles of a clean running network as soon as I walk in the door including fixes they did not know they needed, but will need when they least expect it. This puts me behind in paid hours for the first few months, but makes for less hours expended for the remainder of the contract. You would be amazed how comfortable this makes people, to the point where they get nervous and call me around month 10 of a 12 month to re-up the contract before it expires. My normal rate is $100-125/hour if I am not on contract. Read this for some guidelines: http://www.unixwiz.net/techtips/be- consultant.html. ryan On Aug 15, 2007, at 2:10 PM, Blair Davis wrote: Sounds cheap to me. Our rate is $60 per hour + travel time at $30 per hour, and we are quite rural. Mike Hammett wrote: Does this sound fair to all parties? My normal rate is $40/hour, with $80/hour for emergencies. I charge $150/month to manage a business's network. This includes 3 hours of support. I also will VPN into the network and ensure that operating systems, anti-virus, etc. are updated, which does not consume any hours. Additional support is available at $35/$70 per hour. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
> able to fix quickly. I know at least one other person that is about as > smart as myself and they'd be tickled pink with $10/hour. I greatly > prefer > people that have gained their knowledge outside of formal > education. After > going through college, I would have only hired 2 people in my class of 30 > (myself included) due to information absorption and retention rates. > College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth. > > etc. > > If we're going on 100 billable hours of work a month, that's 33 customers, > > assuming they actually need my services that month. I've only been doing > this a couple months, but I really don't think I'll be needed > much. They're > paying for something they may not utilize, but have on reserve. 33 > customers would be almost $60k/year. That leaves me $15k/year to cover > all > of those other, misc expenses. If I can't do that, I have bigger problems > to deal with. > > Maybe I'll kick up my rates 25% or so, but $80 or $120/hour, IMNHO is just > > screwing the customer. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > - Original Message - > From: "Clint Ricker" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:30 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service > > > >I don't see any possible way that you're making any sort of actual profit > >on > > this (or even really breaking even) at this rate, unless you've got some > > redicuously cheap labor > > > > Consider this... > > If you're doing $40 an hour, and you had a full time person billing 100% > > of > > the time (ie 168 hours per month), then you'll max out for that employee > > at > > about $80,000 of revenueyou then have to pay taxes, mileage, > > insurance, > > etc... > > > > Now, take into account that a single full time employee doing this full > > time > > in reality will never do more than 100 billable hours a month... > > This is from experience and even assumes that you're fairly streamlined > in > > terms of paperwork, supplies, travel routes, etc... > > > > This means, at $40 per hour, you'll only pull in $48,000 per year in > > revenue > > for that full time employeeassuming you have a streamlined > operation. > > There's no room in there to pay them, pay taxes, pay mileage, pay for > > their > > portion of office space (and other expense), pay for billing, pay for > your > > time in management, and so forth. > > > > I'd double it as a starting point if you're in a rural market, triple if > > you're urban, and probably more for people who aren't regular customers. > > > Still, a lot does depend on your market and your business model. Are > your > > employees knowledgeable? Do they really know what they are doing on > this > > stuff, or are they just fumbling through... > > > > Keep in mind, as well, that small business consulting is not too > different > > from dealing with people in the home construction / repair > industry--there > > are a lot of people who just walked off the farm, so to speak, and claim > > > to > > be in the business (no insult intended, and some of them do well). They > > aren't always the best in terms of quality, and they aren't always the > > best > > in terms of professionalism. Most businesses that have some sense pay > > more > > to get better quality...in some sense, if you price yourself higher, you > > price yourself into the good customers. You also give yourself the > money > > to > > do it well... > > > > -Clint Ricker > > Kentnis Technologies > > > > > > > > > > On 8/15/07, Mike Hammett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> Does this sound fair to all parties? > >> > >> My normal rate is $40/hour, with $80/hour for emergencies. > >> > >> I charge $150/month to manage a business's network. This includes 3 > >> hours > >> of support. I also will VPN into the network and ensure that operating > > >> systems, anti-virus, etc. are updated, which does not consume any > >> hours. Additional support is available at $35/$70 per hour. > >> > >> > >> - > >> Mike Hammett > >> Intelligent Computing Solutions > >> http://www.ics-il.com > >> > >
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
Mike - I'm in a sort of backwatery place with rent similar to what you're quoting, so I'll just throw this in: If you're just getting started, word of mouth and reputation is very valuable to you - so if you can keep your prices low and give good quality, those people will talk about you. You can safely raise prices as the demand for your time grows. So, I do websites locally - my first clients did not pay a lot of cash, but I could not buy the kind of incredible advertising that they've provided for me. Now, when people are beating down my door and I have to turn down work - the prices go up. i.e. I'd rather take 5 jobs for $50 then one for $250. word of mouth is everything in smaller markets! If you can go cheap, you might find that people who wouldn't consider hiring a 'consultant'. Just some thoughts from another smalltowner :) J On 8/15/07, Mike Hammett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > errr, those rates are the new ones. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > - Original Message - > From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:13 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service > > > >I already did. ;-) > > > > I forgot the entire rate structure before... $35/hour in shop, $50/hour > > on site, $90/hour emergency. > > > > > > - > > Mike Hammett > > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Cliff Leboeuf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "WISPA General List" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:17 PM > > Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managed IT Service > > > > > > Mike, if you are to get a return on MY investment, don't short-change > > me! > > > > I'd rather you get the most return on MY investment that you can than to > > see it wasted on those that are not willing to offer me ANY return -- > > only to put their hand out for more... :( > > > > Go get em'. Make me proud! Raise your rate. :) I believe in you ... so > > should you! > > > > - Cliff > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:41 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service > > > > My family is fairly poor, so the state and feds picked most of it up. I > > > > should obtain the return on YOUR investment. ;-) > > > > > > - > > Mike Hammett > > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Cliff Leboeuf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "WISPA General List" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:07 PM > > Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managed IT Service > > > > > > "College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth." > > > > Maybe you didn't LISTEN good enough in college! > > > > If you were listening, you would have heard what you should actually > > EXPECT was right on. If you are as good and knowledgeable as you state, > > then you are not charging what you ARE worth. The only way you would be > > "screwing" anyone at $80 per hour is if you didn't know what you are > > doing. > > > > There is nothing wrong with making money. > > > > Become more confident and raise your rate to what your market will > > support! You will be happier in the long run...You'll be happy you did. > > :) > > > > Obtain the "return" on your college "investment." It wasn't cheap I bet. > > Charge "what you're really worth;" just like they told you in school!!! > > > > - Cliff > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:01 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service > > > > Currently it is only myself, so I pocket 100% of it. I'll expand upon > > my > > thoughts not to defend my price, but to say where I'm coming from in an > > attempt to figure out if my current system won't scale or if everyone > > else > > is just screwing their customers. > > > > That said,
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
errr, those rates are the new ones. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service I already did. ;-) I forgot the entire rate structure before... $35/hour in shop, $50/hour on site, $90/hour emergency. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Cliff Leboeuf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:17 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managed IT Service Mike, if you are to get a return on MY investment, don't short-change me! I'd rather you get the most return on MY investment that you can than to see it wasted on those that are not willing to offer me ANY return -- only to put their hand out for more... :( Go get em'. Make me proud! Raise your rate. :) I believe in you ... so should you! - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service My family is fairly poor, so the state and feds picked most of it up. I should obtain the return on YOUR investment. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Cliff Leboeuf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:07 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managed IT Service "College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth." Maybe you didn't LISTEN good enough in college! If you were listening, you would have heard what you should actually EXPECT was right on. If you are as good and knowledgeable as you state, then you are not charging what you ARE worth. The only way you would be "screwing" anyone at $80 per hour is if you didn't know what you are doing. There is nothing wrong with making money. Become more confident and raise your rate to what your market will support! You will be happier in the long run...You'll be happy you did. :) Obtain the "return" on your college "investment." It wasn't cheap I bet. Charge "what you're really worth;" just like they told you in school!!! - Cliff -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service Currently it is only myself, so I pocket 100% of it. I'll expand upon my thoughts not to defend my price, but to say where I'm coming from in an attempt to figure out if my current system won't scale or if everyone else is just screwing their customers. That said, I don't see how all of those things really add up to that much money. At $20/hour, that's just under $42k/year for a full time employee. Make that just over $43k after you figure in unemployment, social security, and Medicare. I only pay income tax on what I profit, so that's not part of the equation. Office space and use is pretty cheap. $250 for the whole office, I have options on other office spaces in the building. Most any problem can be quickly diagnosed and repaired, being able to include travel time within the 1 hour minimum. Otherwise, the $15/hour I make for beyond the included 3 hours surely pays for the $5 - $10 in mileage they would use (until I have my own vehicles). Everything is manual at the moment because there just isn't the volume, but I can't see the minute I spend entering into QuickBooks taking that much time or money to bill them, pay the employee, etc. There haven't been many things that I've encountered that I haven't been able to fix quickly. I know at least one other person that is about as smart as myself and they'd be tickled pink with $10/hour. I greatly prefer people that have gained their knowledge outside of formal education. After going through college, I would have only hired 2 people in my class of 30 (myself included) due to information absorption and retention rates. College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth. etc. If we're going on 100 billable hours of work a month, that's 33 customers, assuming they actually need my services that month. I've only been doing this a couple months, but I really don't think I'll be needed much. They're paying for something they may not utilize, but have on reserve. 33 customers would be almost $60k/year. That leaves me $15k/year to cover all of those other, misc expenses. If I can't do that, I have bigger problems
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
I already did. ;-) I forgot the entire rate structure before... $35/hour in shop, $50/hour on site, $90/hour emergency. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Cliff Leboeuf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:17 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managed IT Service Mike, if you are to get a return on MY investment, don't short-change me! I'd rather you get the most return on MY investment that you can than to see it wasted on those that are not willing to offer me ANY return -- only to put their hand out for more... :( Go get em'. Make me proud! Raise your rate. :) I believe in you ... so should you! - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service My family is fairly poor, so the state and feds picked most of it up. I should obtain the return on YOUR investment. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Cliff Leboeuf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:07 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managed IT Service "College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth." Maybe you didn't LISTEN good enough in college! If you were listening, you would have heard what you should actually EXPECT was right on. If you are as good and knowledgeable as you state, then you are not charging what you ARE worth. The only way you would be "screwing" anyone at $80 per hour is if you didn't know what you are doing. There is nothing wrong with making money. Become more confident and raise your rate to what your market will support! You will be happier in the long run...You'll be happy you did. :) Obtain the "return" on your college "investment." It wasn't cheap I bet. Charge "what you're really worth;" just like they told you in school!!! - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service Currently it is only myself, so I pocket 100% of it. I'll expand upon my thoughts not to defend my price, but to say where I'm coming from in an attempt to figure out if my current system won't scale or if everyone else is just screwing their customers. That said, I don't see how all of those things really add up to that much money. At $20/hour, that's just under $42k/year for a full time employee. Make that just over $43k after you figure in unemployment, social security, and Medicare. I only pay income tax on what I profit, so that's not part of the equation. Office space and use is pretty cheap. $250 for the whole office, I have options on other office spaces in the building. Most any problem can be quickly diagnosed and repaired, being able to include travel time within the 1 hour minimum. Otherwise, the $15/hour I make for beyond the included 3 hours surely pays for the $5 - $10 in mileage they would use (until I have my own vehicles). Everything is manual at the moment because there just isn't the volume, but I can't see the minute I spend entering into QuickBooks taking that much time or money to bill them, pay the employee, etc. There haven't been many things that I've encountered that I haven't been able to fix quickly. I know at least one other person that is about as smart as myself and they'd be tickled pink with $10/hour. I greatly prefer people that have gained their knowledge outside of formal education. After going through college, I would have only hired 2 people in my class of 30 (myself included) due to information absorption and retention rates. College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth. etc. If we're going on 100 billable hours of work a month, that's 33 customers, assuming they actually need my services that month. I've only been doing this a couple months, but I really don't think I'll be needed much. They're paying for something they may not utilize, but have on reserve. 33 customers would be almost $60k/year. That leaves me $15k/year to cover all of those other, misc expenses. If I can't do that, I have bigger problems to deal with. Maybe I'll kick up my rates 25% or so, but $80 or $120/hour, IMNHO is just screwing the customer. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Clint Ricker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: We
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
Totally random notes: My rate is $70 an hour _if_ the customer signs up for 1 year of service with me @ 1/2 hour per machine per month. The customer likes this because they know how much they are paying a month, every month. Basically they get an IT department looking out for them without having to hire an IT department. I do a quasi-rollover-minutes thing with them and always note "this is un-billed as I did not use all of the time you paid for last month!" Make sure to ALWAYS print what they got for free EVERY month on their invoice. Even if the decision makers do not see that text, the bill payers will and they will tell the decision makers to rehire you as they see you are a bargain. The customer get all the bells an whistles of a clean running network as soon as I walk in the door including fixes they did not know they needed, but will need when they least expect it. This puts me behind in paid hours for the first few months, but makes for less hours expended for the remainder of the contract. You would be amazed how comfortable this makes people, to the point where they get nervous and call me around month 10 of a 12 month to re-up the contract before it expires. My normal rate is $100-125/hour if I am not on contract. Read this for some guidelines: http://www.unixwiz.net/techtips/be- consultant.html. ryan On Aug 15, 2007, at 2:10 PM, Blair Davis wrote: Sounds cheap to me. Our rate is $60 per hour + travel time at $30 per hour, and we are quite rural. Mike Hammett wrote: Does this sound fair to all parties? My normal rate is $40/hour, with $80/hour for emergencies. I charge $150/month to manage a business's network. This includes 3 hours of support. I also will VPN into the network and ensure that operating systems, anti-virus, etc. are updated, which does not consume any hours. Additional support is available at $35/$70 per hour. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
Mike, if you are to get a return on MY investment, don't short-change me! I'd rather you get the most return on MY investment that you can than to see it wasted on those that are not willing to offer me ANY return -- only to put their hand out for more... :( Go get em'. Make me proud! Raise your rate. :) I believe in you ... so should you! - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service My family is fairly poor, so the state and feds picked most of it up. I should obtain the return on YOUR investment. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Cliff Leboeuf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:07 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managed IT Service "College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth." Maybe you didn't LISTEN good enough in college! If you were listening, you would have heard what you should actually EXPECT was right on. If you are as good and knowledgeable as you state, then you are not charging what you ARE worth. The only way you would be "screwing" anyone at $80 per hour is if you didn't know what you are doing. There is nothing wrong with making money. Become more confident and raise your rate to what your market will support! You will be happier in the long run...You'll be happy you did. :) Obtain the "return" on your college "investment." It wasn't cheap I bet. Charge "what you're really worth;" just like they told you in school!!! - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service Currently it is only myself, so I pocket 100% of it. I'll expand upon my thoughts not to defend my price, but to say where I'm coming from in an attempt to figure out if my current system won't scale or if everyone else is just screwing their customers. That said, I don't see how all of those things really add up to that much money. At $20/hour, that's just under $42k/year for a full time employee. Make that just over $43k after you figure in unemployment, social security, and Medicare. I only pay income tax on what I profit, so that's not part of the equation. Office space and use is pretty cheap. $250 for the whole office, I have options on other office spaces in the building. Most any problem can be quickly diagnosed and repaired, being able to include travel time within the 1 hour minimum. Otherwise, the $15/hour I make for beyond the included 3 hours surely pays for the $5 - $10 in mileage they would use (until I have my own vehicles). Everything is manual at the moment because there just isn't the volume, but I can't see the minute I spend entering into QuickBooks taking that much time or money to bill them, pay the employee, etc. There haven't been many things that I've encountered that I haven't been able to fix quickly. I know at least one other person that is about as smart as myself and they'd be tickled pink with $10/hour. I greatly prefer people that have gained their knowledge outside of formal education. After going through college, I would have only hired 2 people in my class of 30 (myself included) due to information absorption and retention rates. College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth. etc. If we're going on 100 billable hours of work a month, that's 33 customers, assuming they actually need my services that month. I've only been doing this a couple months, but I really don't think I'll be needed much. They're paying for something they may not utilize, but have on reserve. 33 customers would be almost $60k/year. That leaves me $15k/year to cover all of those other, misc expenses. If I can't do that, I have bigger problems to deal with. Maybe I'll kick up my rates 25% or so, but $80 or $120/hour, IMNHO is just screwing the customer. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Clint Ricker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service >I don't see any possible way that you're making any sort of actual profit >on > this (or even really breaking even) at this rate, unless you've got some > redicuously cheap labor > > Consider this... > If you're doing $40 an hour, and you had a full time person billing 100% > of >
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
My family is fairly poor, so the state and feds picked most of it up. I should obtain the return on YOUR investment. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Cliff Leboeuf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:07 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managed IT Service "College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth." Maybe you didn't LISTEN good enough in college! If you were listening, you would have heard what you should actually EXPECT was right on. If you are as good and knowledgeable as you state, then you are not charging what you ARE worth. The only way you would be "screwing" anyone at $80 per hour is if you didn't know what you are doing. There is nothing wrong with making money. Become more confident and raise your rate to what your market will support! You will be happier in the long run...You'll be happy you did. :) Obtain the "return" on your college "investment." It wasn't cheap I bet. Charge "what you're really worth;" just like they told you in school!!! - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service Currently it is only myself, so I pocket 100% of it. I'll expand upon my thoughts not to defend my price, but to say where I'm coming from in an attempt to figure out if my current system won't scale or if everyone else is just screwing their customers. That said, I don't see how all of those things really add up to that much money. At $20/hour, that's just under $42k/year for a full time employee. Make that just over $43k after you figure in unemployment, social security, and Medicare. I only pay income tax on what I profit, so that's not part of the equation. Office space and use is pretty cheap. $250 for the whole office, I have options on other office spaces in the building. Most any problem can be quickly diagnosed and repaired, being able to include travel time within the 1 hour minimum. Otherwise, the $15/hour I make for beyond the included 3 hours surely pays for the $5 - $10 in mileage they would use (until I have my own vehicles). Everything is manual at the moment because there just isn't the volume, but I can't see the minute I spend entering into QuickBooks taking that much time or money to bill them, pay the employee, etc. There haven't been many things that I've encountered that I haven't been able to fix quickly. I know at least one other person that is about as smart as myself and they'd be tickled pink with $10/hour. I greatly prefer people that have gained their knowledge outside of formal education. After going through college, I would have only hired 2 people in my class of 30 (myself included) due to information absorption and retention rates. College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth. etc. If we're going on 100 billable hours of work a month, that's 33 customers, assuming they actually need my services that month. I've only been doing this a couple months, but I really don't think I'll be needed much. They're paying for something they may not utilize, but have on reserve. 33 customers would be almost $60k/year. That leaves me $15k/year to cover all of those other, misc expenses. If I can't do that, I have bigger problems to deal with. Maybe I'll kick up my rates 25% or so, but $80 or $120/hour, IMNHO is just screwing the customer. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Clint Ricker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service I don't see any possible way that you're making any sort of actual profit on this (or even really breaking even) at this rate, unless you've got some redicuously cheap labor Consider this... If you're doing $40 an hour, and you had a full time person billing 100% of the time (ie 168 hours per month), then you'll max out for that employee at about $80,000 of revenueyou then have to pay taxes, mileage, insurance, etc... Now, take into account that a single full time employee doing this full time in reality will never do more than 100 billable hours a month... This is from experience and even assumes that you're fairly streamlined in terms of paperwork, supplies, travel routes, etc... This means, at $40 per hour, you'll only pull in $48,000 per year in revenue for that full time employeeassuming you have a streamlined operation. There&#x
RE: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
"College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth." Maybe you didn't LISTEN good enough in college! If you were listening, you would have heard what you should actually EXPECT was right on. If you are as good and knowledgeable as you state, then you are not charging what you ARE worth. The only way you would be "screwing" anyone at $80 per hour is if you didn't know what you are doing. There is nothing wrong with making money. Become more confident and raise your rate to what your market will support! You will be happier in the long run...You'll be happy you did. :) Obtain the "return" on your college "investment." It wasn't cheap I bet. Charge "what you're really worth;" just like they told you in school!!! - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service Currently it is only myself, so I pocket 100% of it. I'll expand upon my thoughts not to defend my price, but to say where I'm coming from in an attempt to figure out if my current system won't scale or if everyone else is just screwing their customers. That said, I don't see how all of those things really add up to that much money. At $20/hour, that's just under $42k/year for a full time employee. Make that just over $43k after you figure in unemployment, social security, and Medicare. I only pay income tax on what I profit, so that's not part of the equation. Office space and use is pretty cheap. $250 for the whole office, I have options on other office spaces in the building. Most any problem can be quickly diagnosed and repaired, being able to include travel time within the 1 hour minimum. Otherwise, the $15/hour I make for beyond the included 3 hours surely pays for the $5 - $10 in mileage they would use (until I have my own vehicles). Everything is manual at the moment because there just isn't the volume, but I can't see the minute I spend entering into QuickBooks taking that much time or money to bill them, pay the employee, etc. There haven't been many things that I've encountered that I haven't been able to fix quickly. I know at least one other person that is about as smart as myself and they'd be tickled pink with $10/hour. I greatly prefer people that have gained their knowledge outside of formal education. After going through college, I would have only hired 2 people in my class of 30 (myself included) due to information absorption and retention rates. College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth. etc. If we're going on 100 billable hours of work a month, that's 33 customers, assuming they actually need my services that month. I've only been doing this a couple months, but I really don't think I'll be needed much. They're paying for something they may not utilize, but have on reserve. 33 customers would be almost $60k/year. That leaves me $15k/year to cover all of those other, misc expenses. If I can't do that, I have bigger problems to deal with. Maybe I'll kick up my rates 25% or so, but $80 or $120/hour, IMNHO is just screwing the customer. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Clint Ricker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service >I don't see any possible way that you're making any sort of actual profit >on > this (or even really breaking even) at this rate, unless you've got some > redicuously cheap labor > > Consider this... > If you're doing $40 an hour, and you had a full time person billing 100% > of > the time (ie 168 hours per month), then you'll max out for that employee > at > about $80,000 of revenueyou then have to pay taxes, mileage, > insurance, > etc... > > Now, take into account that a single full time employee doing this full > time > in reality will never do more than 100 billable hours a month... > This is from experience and even assumes that you're fairly streamlined in > terms of paperwork, supplies, travel routes, etc... > > This means, at $40 per hour, you'll only pull in $48,000 per year in > revenue > for that full time employeeassuming you have a streamlined operation. > There's no room in there to pay them, pay taxes, pay mileage, pay for > their > portion of office space (and other expense), pay for billing, pay for your > time in management, and so forth. > > I'd double it as a starting point if you're in a rural market, trip
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
Remember, that it has been widely shown that most small businesses attempt to use a "cost plus" model for pricing. Unfortunately, the "cost plus" model while making sense on paper tends to not work out in the long run. It is far better to price according to what the market will accept and make sure that such a price has sufficient profit. With such a model you will either find more profit or that you shouldn't be in the business to begin with. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
I have a conference room, three offices, two closets, a waiting room, a general purpose room, and another room with the receptionist station for the waiting room. I believe its around 900 sq. ft. I'm getting two more storage rooms now for another $50/month. That adds another 250 - 350 sq. ft. (I haven't measured). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Martha Huizenga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service It really does depend on your market. If you can get an office for $250 a month, then your prices are probably in line with your market. I couldn't get a closet for that price! :-) Mike Hammett wrote: Currently it is only myself, so I pocket 100% of it. I'll expand upon my thoughts not to defend my price, but to say where I'm coming from in an attempt to figure out if my current system won't scale or if everyone else is just screwing their customers. That said, I don't see how all of those things really add up to that much money. At $20/hour, that's just under $42k/year for a full time employee. Make that just over $43k after you figure in unemployment, social security, and Medicare. I only pay income tax on what I profit, so that's not part of the equation. Office space and use is pretty cheap. $250 for the whole office, I have options on other office spaces in the building. Most any problem can be quickly diagnosed and repaired, being able to include travel time within the 1 hour minimum. Otherwise, the $15/hour I make for beyond the included 3 hours surely pays for the $5 - $10 in mileage they would use (until I have my own vehicles). Everything is manual at the moment because there just isn't the volume, but I can't see the minute I spend entering into QuickBooks taking that much time or money to bill them, pay the employee, etc. There haven't been many things that I've encountered that I haven't been able to fix quickly. I know at least one other person that is about as smart as myself and they'd be tickled pink with $10/hour. I greatly prefer people that have gained their knowledge outside of formal education. After going through college, I would have only hired 2 people in my class of 30 (myself included) due to information absorption and retention rates. College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth. etc. If we're going on 100 billable hours of work a month, that's 33 customers, assuming they actually need my services that month. I've only been doing this a couple months, but I really don't think I'll be needed much. They're paying for something they may not utilize, but have on reserve. 33 customers would be almost $60k/year. That leaves me $15k/year to cover all of those other, misc expenses. If I can't do that, I have bigger problems to deal with. Maybe I'll kick up my rates 25% or so, but $80 or $120/hour, IMNHO is just screwing the customer. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ----- Original Message - From: "Clint Ricker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service I don't see any possible way that you're making any sort of actual profit on this (or even really breaking even) at this rate, unless you've got some redicuously cheap labor Consider this... If you're doing $40 an hour, and you had a full time person billing 100% of the time (ie 168 hours per month), then you'll max out for that employee at about $80,000 of revenueyou then have to pay taxes, mileage, insurance, etc... Now, take into account that a single full time employee doing this full time in reality will never do more than 100 billable hours a month... This is from experience and even assumes that you're fairly streamlined in terms of paperwork, supplies, travel routes, etc... This means, at $40 per hour, you'll only pull in $48,000 per year in revenue for that full time employeeassuming you have a streamlined operation. There's no room in there to pay them, pay taxes, pay mileage, pay for their portion of office space (and other expense), pay for billing, pay for your time in management, and so forth. I'd double it as a starting point if you're in a rural market, triple if you're urban, and probably more for people who aren't regular customers. Still, a lot does depend on your market and your business model. Are your employees knowledgeable? Do they really know what they are doing on this stuff, or are they just fumbling through... Keep in mind, as well, that small business con
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
It really does depend on your market. If you can get an office for $250 a month, then your prices are probably in line with your market. I couldn't get a closet for that price! :-) Mike Hammett wrote: Currently it is only myself, so I pocket 100% of it. I'll expand upon my thoughts not to defend my price, but to say where I'm coming from in an attempt to figure out if my current system won't scale or if everyone else is just screwing their customers. That said, I don't see how all of those things really add up to that much money. At $20/hour, that's just under $42k/year for a full time employee. Make that just over $43k after you figure in unemployment, social security, and Medicare. I only pay income tax on what I profit, so that's not part of the equation. Office space and use is pretty cheap. $250 for the whole office, I have options on other office spaces in the building. Most any problem can be quickly diagnosed and repaired, being able to include travel time within the 1 hour minimum. Otherwise, the $15/hour I make for beyond the included 3 hours surely pays for the $5 - $10 in mileage they would use (until I have my own vehicles). Everything is manual at the moment because there just isn't the volume, but I can't see the minute I spend entering into QuickBooks taking that much time or money to bill them, pay the employee, etc. There haven't been many things that I've encountered that I haven't been able to fix quickly. I know at least one other person that is about as smart as myself and they'd be tickled pink with $10/hour. I greatly prefer people that have gained their knowledge outside of formal education. After going through college, I would have only hired 2 people in my class of 30 (myself included) due to information absorption and retention rates. College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth. etc. If we're going on 100 billable hours of work a month, that's 33 customers, assuming they actually need my services that month. I've only been doing this a couple months, but I really don't think I'll be needed much. They're paying for something they may not utilize, but have on reserve. 33 customers would be almost $60k/year. That leaves me $15k/year to cover all of those other, misc expenses. If I can't do that, I have bigger problems to deal with. Maybe I'll kick up my rates 25% or so, but $80 or $120/hour, IMNHO is just screwing the customer. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Clint Ricker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service I don't see any possible way that you're making any sort of actual profit on this (or even really breaking even) at this rate, unless you've got some redicuously cheap labor Consider this... If you're doing $40 an hour, and you had a full time person billing 100% of the time (ie 168 hours per month), then you'll max out for that employee at about $80,000 of revenueyou then have to pay taxes, mileage, insurance, etc... Now, take into account that a single full time employee doing this full time in reality will never do more than 100 billable hours a month... This is from experience and even assumes that you're fairly streamlined in terms of paperwork, supplies, travel routes, etc... This means, at $40 per hour, you'll only pull in $48,000 per year in revenue for that full time employeeassuming you have a streamlined operation. There's no room in there to pay them, pay taxes, pay mileage, pay for their portion of office space (and other expense), pay for billing, pay for your time in management, and so forth. I'd double it as a starting point if you're in a rural market, triple if you're urban, and probably more for people who aren't regular customers. Still, a lot does depend on your market and your business model. Are your employees knowledgeable? Do they really know what they are doing on this stuff, or are they just fumbling through... Keep in mind, as well, that small business consulting is not too different from dealing with people in the home construction / repair industry--there are a lot of people who just walked off the farm, so to speak, and claim to be in the business (no insult intended, and some of them do well). They aren't always the best in terms of quality, and they aren't always the best in terms of professionalism. Most businesses that have some sense pay more to get better quality...in some sense, if you price yourself higher, you price yourself into the good customers. You also give yourself the money to do it well... -Clint Ricker Kentnis Techn
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
Mike, We charge $80 an hour regardless of residential or business. Now we are in the city (DC), but I think that $40 an hour for a business and $150 a month is quite a good deal. Sometimes we'll do projects at a flat rate price, but we always consider the amount of time we think it will take and a "not to exceed" for the customers sake. Martha Huizenga DC Access Mike Hammett wrote: Does this sound fair to all parties? My normal rate is $40/hour, with $80/hour for emergencies. I charge $150/month to manage a business's network. This includes 3 hours of support. I also will VPN into the network and ensure that operating systems, anti-virus, etc. are updated, which does not consume any hours. Additional support is available at $35/$70 per hour. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
Currently it is only myself, so I pocket 100% of it. I'll expand upon my thoughts not to defend my price, but to say where I'm coming from in an attempt to figure out if my current system won't scale or if everyone else is just screwing their customers. That said, I don't see how all of those things really add up to that much money. At $20/hour, that's just under $42k/year for a full time employee. Make that just over $43k after you figure in unemployment, social security, and Medicare. I only pay income tax on what I profit, so that's not part of the equation. Office space and use is pretty cheap. $250 for the whole office, I have options on other office spaces in the building. Most any problem can be quickly diagnosed and repaired, being able to include travel time within the 1 hour minimum. Otherwise, the $15/hour I make for beyond the included 3 hours surely pays for the $5 - $10 in mileage they would use (until I have my own vehicles). Everything is manual at the moment because there just isn't the volume, but I can't see the minute I spend entering into QuickBooks taking that much time or money to bill them, pay the employee, etc. There haven't been many things that I've encountered that I haven't been able to fix quickly. I know at least one other person that is about as smart as myself and they'd be tickled pink with $10/hour. I greatly prefer people that have gained their knowledge outside of formal education. After going through college, I would have only hired 2 people in my class of 30 (myself included) due to information absorption and retention rates. College just trains you to expect more than what you're really worth. etc. If we're going on 100 billable hours of work a month, that's 33 customers, assuming they actually need my services that month. I've only been doing this a couple months, but I really don't think I'll be needed much. They're paying for something they may not utilize, but have on reserve. 33 customers would be almost $60k/year. That leaves me $15k/year to cover all of those other, misc expenses. If I can't do that, I have bigger problems to deal with. Maybe I'll kick up my rates 25% or so, but $80 or $120/hour, IMNHO is just screwing the customer. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Clint Ricker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service I don't see any possible way that you're making any sort of actual profit on this (or even really breaking even) at this rate, unless you've got some redicuously cheap labor Consider this... If you're doing $40 an hour, and you had a full time person billing 100% of the time (ie 168 hours per month), then you'll max out for that employee at about $80,000 of revenueyou then have to pay taxes, mileage, insurance, etc... Now, take into account that a single full time employee doing this full time in reality will never do more than 100 billable hours a month... This is from experience and even assumes that you're fairly streamlined in terms of paperwork, supplies, travel routes, etc... This means, at $40 per hour, you'll only pull in $48,000 per year in revenue for that full time employeeassuming you have a streamlined operation. There's no room in there to pay them, pay taxes, pay mileage, pay for their portion of office space (and other expense), pay for billing, pay for your time in management, and so forth. I'd double it as a starting point if you're in a rural market, triple if you're urban, and probably more for people who aren't regular customers. Still, a lot does depend on your market and your business model. Are your employees knowledgeable? Do they really know what they are doing on this stuff, or are they just fumbling through... Keep in mind, as well, that small business consulting is not too different from dealing with people in the home construction / repair industry--there are a lot of people who just walked off the farm, so to speak, and claim to be in the business (no insult intended, and some of them do well). They aren't always the best in terms of quality, and they aren't always the best in terms of professionalism. Most businesses that have some sense pay more to get better quality...in some sense, if you price yourself higher, you price yourself into the good customers. You also give yourself the money to do it well... -Clint Ricker Kentnis Technologies On 8/15/07, Mike Hammett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does this sound fair to all parties? My normal rate is $40/hour, with $80/hour for emergencies. I charge $150/month to manage a business's networ
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
Depends upon your market and what you can get away with and who you want to target. Mike Hammett wrote: Does this sound fair to all parties? My normal rate is $40/hour, with $80/hour for emergencies. I charge $150/month to manage a business's network. This includes 3 hours of support. I also will VPN into the network and ensure that operating systems, anti-virus, etc. are updated, which does not consume any hours. Additional support is available at $35/$70 per hour. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
We are the cheapest guy in town at $90/hour for Onsite. I guess it depends on location. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA List" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:03 PM Subject: [WISPA] Managed IT Service Does this sound fair to all parties? My normal rate is $40/hour, with $80/hour for emergencies. I charge $150/month to manage a business's network. This includes 3 hours of support. I also will VPN into the network and ensure that operating systems, anti-virus, etc. are updated, which does not consume any hours. Additional support is available at $35/$70 per hour. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
I don't see any possible way that you're making any sort of actual profit on this (or even really breaking even) at this rate, unless you've got some redicuously cheap labor Consider this... If you're doing $40 an hour, and you had a full time person billing 100% of the time (ie 168 hours per month), then you'll max out for that employee at about $80,000 of revenueyou then have to pay taxes, mileage, insurance, etc... Now, take into account that a single full time employee doing this full time in reality will never do more than 100 billable hours a month... This is from experience and even assumes that you're fairly streamlined in terms of paperwork, supplies, travel routes, etc... This means, at $40 per hour, you'll only pull in $48,000 per year in revenue for that full time employeeassuming you have a streamlined operation. There's no room in there to pay them, pay taxes, pay mileage, pay for their portion of office space (and other expense), pay for billing, pay for your time in management, and so forth. I'd double it as a starting point if you're in a rural market, triple if you're urban, and probably more for people who aren't regular customers. Still, a lot does depend on your market and your business model. Are your employees knowledgeable? Do they really know what they are doing on this stuff, or are they just fumbling through... Keep in mind, as well, that small business consulting is not too different from dealing with people in the home construction / repair industry--there are a lot of people who just walked off the farm, so to speak, and claim to be in the business (no insult intended, and some of them do well). They aren't always the best in terms of quality, and they aren't always the best in terms of professionalism. Most businesses that have some sense pay more to get better quality...in some sense, if you price yourself higher, you price yourself into the good customers. You also give yourself the money to do it well... -Clint Ricker Kentnis Technologies On 8/15/07, Mike Hammett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Does this sound fair to all parties? > > My normal rate is $40/hour, with $80/hour for emergencies. > > I charge $150/month to manage a business's network. This includes 3 hours > of support. I also will VPN into the network and ensure that operating > systems, anti-virus, etc. are updated, which does not consume any > hours. Additional support is available at $35/$70 per hour. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Managed IT Service
Sounds cheap to me. Our rate is $60 per hour + travel time at $30 per hour, and we are quite rural. Mike Hammett wrote: Does this sound fair to all parties? My normal rate is $40/hour, with $80/hour for emergencies. I charge $150/month to manage a business's network. This includes 3 hours of support. I also will VPN into the network and ensure that operating systems, anti-virus, etc. are updated, which does not consume any hours. Additional support is available at $35/$70 per hour. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
