Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Andy Trimmell]

I agree. It costs $100 for each smartphone people have yet they want to
download 50-600gb for $30. Not gonna happen

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 7:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should
too.

 

I am either firing or increasing rates.  I can't sit there and have
customers doing 600 gigs for less then my cell bill...

On May 4, 2011 6:58 PM, "Mark Nash"  wrote:




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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Josh Luthman]

I am either firing or increasing rates.  I can't sit there and have
customers doing 600 gigs for less then my cell bill...
On May 4, 2011 6:58 PM, "Mark Nash"  wrote:



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Mark Nash]

Dude...  The thing is... After a LOT of emotion & being pissed at the 
abusers...


I made a decision to do this and craft it in such a way that I am VERY 
unemotional when it comes to telling our staff how to handle customers.  
Even though the customer may be emotional at first, if you don't play 
ball with that emotion and stand firm, you will feel better about it.  
You may lose some customers...that is the way of things...but on the 
whole things will be better.


On 5/4/2011 2:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
My user does 600 gigs a month.  I wonder what he says when our UBB 
comes in to play.  I am hoping I am fortunate as you, Mark =)


I am very glad to see things went very smoothly for you!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Mark Nash > wrote:


Wow.  After receiving our letter, our HEAVIEST user called in,
concerned.  When we described the situation, he TOTALLY changed his
behavior and said that:

1. he was canceling his Netflix account
2. he is going back to DVDs for movies
3. he LOVES our service

He was the one that really pushed us over the edge to go to FAPs &
UBB,
because his usage was SO FAR above the others.  Like 250GB/mo.  We
told
him that he's the one that started us on this path hehehe...

So there's something for you... We were worried about HIM the MOST!!!

We have received about 10 phone calls from our letter that went out on
Friday.  3 of those we switched to higher packages and they're happy,
one went "HELL YEAH MORE SPEED!!!"  The others are more just concerned
about their usage.  When they called, we were armed with all the
information they needed on months worth of their usage, mostly telling
them they have nothing to worry about, just begin paying the moderate
price increase in July and don't worry about the rest.

So far, so good...

On 5/3/2011 2:36 PM, Mark Nash wrote:
> I already sent it to you like 30 minutes ago...  From a
different e-mail
> account.
>
> On 5/3/2011 2:33 PM, Stuart Pierce wrote:
>> Just don't go postal, but yea sure I'd like to take a look at it.
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: Mark Nashmailto:markl...@uwol.net>>
>> Reply-To: WISPA General Listmailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
>> Date:  Tue, 03 May 2011 13:58:30 -0700
>>
>>> Hehehe if you're my CUSTOMER then you will get one via
postal... :)
>>>
>>> On 5/3/2011 1:56 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 Postal or UPS? :)

 On May 3, 2011 4:50 PM, "Mark Nash"mailto:markl...@uwol.net>
 >>   wrote:
> I'll send you the letter offline since you're a WISPA member...
>
> On 5/3/2011 6:05 AM, Stuart Pierce wrote:
>> I've been saying for a while now that you have to have
bandwidth
 caps and costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you
are not
 charging for them at this point. You also have to have some
method of
 giving feedback to them on their bandwidth consumption.
>> Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew
Cox's script
 for a Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It
will email
 the client when they reach percentages of usage with whatever
you want
 the content of the email to say.
>> What did your letter say ?
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: Mark Nashmailto:markl...@uwol.net>>>
>> Reply-To: WISPA General Listmailto:wireless@wispa.org>
 >>
>> Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>>
>>> I think it's important for people to (after gaining an
 understanding of
>>> the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of
these...
>>>
>>> 1. pay more (either by overages or a different service
plan that
 allows
>>> for more&   costs more), or
>>> 2. change their behavior to not use so much
>>> 3. leave
>>>
>>> I am implementing this now. The letter went out on Friday
to most
>>> customers...
>>>
>>> On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
 Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough
spectrum to
 continue to deliver the service...haven't figured
anything else
 out yet.
 Regards,

 Chuck


 On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
 mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
 

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Josh Luthman]

My user does 600 gigs a month.  I wonder what he says when our UBB comes in
to play.  I am hoping I am fortunate as you, Mark =)

I am very glad to see things went very smoothly for you!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Mark Nash  wrote:

> Wow.  After receiving our letter, our HEAVIEST user called in,
> concerned.  When we described the situation, he TOTALLY changed his
> behavior and said that:
>
> 1. he was canceling his Netflix account
> 2. he is going back to DVDs for movies
> 3. he LOVES our service
>
> He was the one that really pushed us over the edge to go to FAPs & UBB,
> because his usage was SO FAR above the others.  Like 250GB/mo.  We told
> him that he's the one that started us on this path hehehe...
>
> So there's something for you... We were worried about HIM the MOST!!!
>
> We have received about 10 phone calls from our letter that went out on
> Friday.  3 of those we switched to higher packages and they're happy,
> one went "HELL YEAH MORE SPEED!!!"  The others are more just concerned
> about their usage.  When they called, we were armed with all the
> information they needed on months worth of their usage, mostly telling
> them they have nothing to worry about, just begin paying the moderate
> price increase in July and don't worry about the rest.
>
> So far, so good...
>
> On 5/3/2011 2:36 PM, Mark Nash wrote:
> > I already sent it to you like 30 minutes ago...  From a different e-mail
> > account.
> >
> > On 5/3/2011 2:33 PM, Stuart Pierce wrote:
> >> Just don't go postal, but yea sure I'd like to take a look at it.
> >>
> >> -- Original Message --
> >> From: Mark Nash
> >> Reply-To: WISPA General List
> >> Date:  Tue, 03 May 2011 13:58:30 -0700
> >>
> >>> Hehehe if you're my CUSTOMER then you will get one via postal... :)
> >>>
> >>> On 5/3/2011 1:56 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>  Postal or UPS? :)
> 
>  On May 3, 2011 4:50 PM, "Mark Nash"  >   wrote:
> > I'll send you the letter offline since you're a WISPA member...
> >
> > On 5/3/2011 6:05 AM, Stuart Pierce wrote:
> >> I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth
>  caps and costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not
>  charging for them at this point. You also have to have some method of
>  giving feedback to them on their bandwidth consumption.
> >> Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script
>  for a Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email
>  the client when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want
>  the content of the email to say.
> >> What did your letter say ?
> >>
> >> -- Original Message --
> >> From: Mark Nashmailto:markl...@uwol.net>>
> >> Reply-To: WISPA General List  >
> >> Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
> >>
> >>> I think it's important for people to (after gaining an
>  understanding of
> >>> the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
> >>>
> >>> 1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that
>  allows
> >>> for more&   costs more), or
> >>> 2. change their behavior to not use so much
> >>> 3. leave
> >>>
> >>> I am implementing this now. The letter went out on Friday to most
> >>> customers...
> >>>
> >>> On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>  Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum
> to
>  continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else
>  out yet.
>  Regards,
> 
>  Chuck
> 
> 
>  On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
>     j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
>  wrote:
>  Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them? I suppose
>  if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
>  more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
>  capitalize on something.
> 
>  Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
>  cable companies, for example.
> 
> 
>  Josh Luthman
>  Office: 937-552-2340
>  Direct: 937-552-2343
>  1100 Wayne St
>  Suite 1337
>  Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
>  On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg  
>  >>   wrote:
> 
>  25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.
> 
>  Regards,
> 
>  Chuck
> 
> 
> 
>  On Mon, May 2, 2011 a

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Mark Nash]

Wow.  After receiving our letter, our HEAVIEST user called in, 
concerned.  When we described the situation, he TOTALLY changed his 
behavior and said that:

1. he was canceling his Netflix account
2. he is going back to DVDs for movies
3. he LOVES our service

He was the one that really pushed us over the edge to go to FAPs & UBB, 
because his usage was SO FAR above the others.  Like 250GB/mo.  We told 
him that he's the one that started us on this path hehehe...

So there's something for you... We were worried about HIM the MOST!!!

We have received about 10 phone calls from our letter that went out on 
Friday.  3 of those we switched to higher packages and they're happy, 
one went "HELL YEAH MORE SPEED!!!"  The others are more just concerned 
about their usage.  When they called, we were armed with all the 
information they needed on months worth of their usage, mostly telling 
them they have nothing to worry about, just begin paying the moderate 
price increase in July and don't worry about the rest.

So far, so good...

On 5/3/2011 2:36 PM, Mark Nash wrote:
> I already sent it to you like 30 minutes ago...  From a different e-mail
> account.
>
> On 5/3/2011 2:33 PM, Stuart Pierce wrote:
>> Just don't go postal, but yea sure I'd like to take a look at it.
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: Mark Nash
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List
>> Date:  Tue, 03 May 2011 13:58:30 -0700
>>
>>> Hehehe if you're my CUSTOMER then you will get one via postal... :)
>>>
>>> On 5/3/2011 1:56 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 Postal or UPS? :)

 On May 3, 2011 4:50 PM, "Mark Nash">>> >   wrote:
> I'll send you the letter offline since you're a WISPA member...
>
> On 5/3/2011 6:05 AM, Stuart Pierce wrote:
>> I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth
 caps and costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not
 charging for them at this point. You also have to have some method of
 giving feedback to them on their bandwidth consumption.
>> Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script
 for a Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email
 the client when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want
 the content of the email to say.
>> What did your letter say ?
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: Mark Nashmailto:markl...@uwol.net>>
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List>>> >
>> Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>>
>>> I think it's important for people to (after gaining an
 understanding of
>>> the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
>>>
>>> 1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that
 allows
>>> for more&   costs more), or
>>> 2. change their behavior to not use so much
>>> 3. leave
>>>
>>> I am implementing this now. The letter went out on Friday to most
>>> customers...
>>>
>>> On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
 Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
 continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else
 out yet.
 Regards,

 Chuck


 On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
 >>> >>
 wrote:
 Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them? I suppose
 if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
 more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
 capitalize on something.

 Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
 cable companies, for example.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373


 On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg>>> 
 >>   wrote:

 25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.

 Regards,

 Chuck



 On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt>>> 
 >>   wrote:

> Robert
> up/down/aggregate
> 103972 MB 469598 MB 573570 MB
>
> The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April. Paying $53.32 for
 4 megabits down.
> I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my
 previous email, but if
> anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps
 you are using I
> would greatly appreciate it.
 What is

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Mark Nash]

I already sent it to you like 30 minutes ago...  From a different e-mail 
account.

On 5/3/2011 2:33 PM, Stuart Pierce wrote:
> Just don't go postal, but yea sure I'd like to take a look at it.
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Mark Nash
> Reply-To: WISPA General List
> Date:  Tue, 03 May 2011 13:58:30 -0700
>
>> Hehehe if you're my CUSTOMER then you will get one via postal... :)
>>
>> On 5/3/2011 1:56 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>> Postal or UPS? :)
>>>
>>> On May 3, 2011 4:50 PM, "Mark Nash">> >  wrote:
 I'll send you the letter offline since you're a WISPA member...

 On 5/3/2011 6:05 AM, Stuart Pierce wrote:
> I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth
>>> caps and costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not
>>> charging for them at this point. You also have to have some method of
>>> giving feedback to them on their bandwidth consumption.
> Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script
>>> for a Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email
>>> the client when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want
>>> the content of the email to say.
> What did your letter say ?
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Mark Nashmailto:markl...@uwol.net>>
> Reply-To: WISPA General List>> >
> Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>
>> I think it's important for people to (after gaining an
>>> understanding of
>> the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
>>
>> 1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that
>>> allows
>> for more&  costs more), or
>> 2. change their behavior to not use so much
>> 3. leave
>>
>> I am implementing this now. The letter went out on Friday to most
>> customers...
>>
>> On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>> Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
>>> continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else
>>> out yet.
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
>>> >> >>
>>> wrote:
>>> Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them? I suppose
>>> if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
>>> more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
>>> capitalize on something.
>>>
>>> Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
>>> cable companies, for example.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg>> 
>>> >>  wrote:
>>>
>>> 25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt>> 
>>> >>  wrote:
>>>
 Robert
 up/down/aggregate
 103972 MB 469598 MB 573570 MB

 The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April. Paying $53.32 for
>>> 4 megabits down.
 I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my
>>> previous email, but if
 anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps
>>> you are using I
 would greatly appreciate it.
>>> What is cost per megabit from your upstream?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> >
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> >
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/p

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Stuart Pierce]

Just don't go postal, but yea sure I'd like to take a look at it.

-- Original Message --
From: Mark Nash 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Tue, 03 May 2011 13:58:30 -0700

>Hehehe if you're my CUSTOMER then you will get one via postal... :)
>
>On 5/3/2011 1:56 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> Postal or UPS? :)
>>
>> On May 3, 2011 4:50 PM, "Mark Nash" > > wrote:
>> > I'll send you the letter offline since you're a WISPA member...
>> >
>> > On 5/3/2011 6:05 AM, Stuart Pierce wrote:
>> >> I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth 
>> caps and costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not 
>> charging for them at this point. You also have to have some method of 
>> giving feedback to them on their bandwidth consumption.
>> >>
>> >> Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script 
>> for a Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email 
>> the client when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want 
>> the content of the email to say.
>> >>
>> >> What did your letter say ?
>> >>
>> >> -- Original Message --
>> >> From: Mark Nashmailto:markl...@uwol.net>>
>> >> Reply-To: WISPA General List> >
>> >> Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>> >>
>> >>> I think it's important for people to (after gaining an 
>> understanding of
>> >>> the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
>> >>>
>> >>> 1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that 
>> allows
>> >>> for more& costs more), or
>> >>> 2. change their behavior to not use so much
>> >>> 3. leave
>> >>>
>> >>> I am implementing this now. The letter went out on Friday to most
>> >>> customers...
>> >>>
>> >>> On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>  Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
>>  continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else 
>> out yet.
>> 
>>  Regards,
>> 
>>  Chuck
>> 
>> 
>>  On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
>>  > > >> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>  Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them? I suppose
>>  if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
>>  more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
>>  capitalize on something.
>> 
>>  Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
>>  cable companies, for example.
>> 
>> 
>>  Josh Luthman
>>  Office: 937-552-2340
>>  Direct: 937-552-2343
>>  1100 Wayne St
>>  Suite 1337
>>  Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>> 
>>  On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg> 
>>  >> wrote:
>> 
>>  25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.
>> 
>>  Regards,
>> 
>>  Chuck
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt> 
>>  >> wrote:
>> 
>>  > Robert
>>  > up/down/aggregate
>>  > 103972 MB 469598 MB 573570 MB
>>  >
>>  > The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April. Paying $53.32 for
>>  4 megabits down.
>>  >
>>  > I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my
>>  previous email, but if
>>  > anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps
>>  you are using I
>>  > would greatly appreciate it.
>> 
>>  What is cost per megabit from your upstream?
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>  http://signup.wispa.org/
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org 
>>  >
>> 
>>  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> 
>>  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>  http://signup.wispa.org/
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org 
>>  >
>> 
>>  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> 
>>  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Mark Nash]

Hehehe if you're my CUSTOMER then you will get one via postal... :)

On 5/3/2011 1:56 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:


Postal or UPS? :)

On May 3, 2011 4:50 PM, "Mark Nash" > wrote:

> I'll send you the letter offline since you're a WISPA member...
>
> On 5/3/2011 6:05 AM, Stuart Pierce wrote:
>> I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth 
caps and costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not 
charging for them at this point. You also have to have some method of 
giving feedback to them on their bandwidth consumption.

>>
>> Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script 
for a Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email 
the client when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want 
the content of the email to say.

>>
>> What did your letter say ?
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: Mark Nashmailto:markl...@uwol.net>>
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List>

>> Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>>
>>> I think it's important for people to (after gaining an 
understanding of

>>> the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
>>>
>>> 1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that 
allows

>>> for more& costs more), or
>>> 2. change their behavior to not use so much
>>> 3. leave
>>>
>>> I am implementing this now. The letter went out on Friday to most
>>> customers...
>>>
>>> On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
 Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
 continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else 
out yet.


 Regards,

 Chuck


 On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
 >> 
wrote:


 Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them? I suppose
 if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
 more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
 capitalize on something.

 Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
 cable companies, for example.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373


 On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg

 >> wrote:

 25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.

 Regards,

 Chuck



 On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt

 >> wrote:

 > Robert
 > up/down/aggregate
 > 103972 MB 469598 MB 573570 MB
 >
 > The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April. Paying $53.32 for
 4 megabits down.
 >
 > I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my
 previous email, but if
 > anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps
 you are using I
 > would greatly appreciate it.

 What is cost per megabit from your upstream?


 


 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 



 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org 
 >

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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Josh Luthman]

Postal or UPS? :)
On May 3, 2011 4:50 PM, "Mark Nash"  wrote:
> I'll send you the letter offline since you're a WISPA member...
>
> On 5/3/2011 6:05 AM, Stuart Pierce wrote:
>> I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth caps and
costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not charging for
them at this point. You also have to have some method of giving feedback to
them on their bandwidth consumption.
>>
>> Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script for a
Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email the client
when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want the content of
the email to say.
>>
>> What did your letter say ?
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: Mark Nash
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List
>> Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>>
>>> I think it's important for people to (after gaining an understanding of
>>> the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
>>>
>>> 1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that allows
>>> for more& costs more), or
>>> 2. change their behavior to not use so much
>>> 3. leave
>>>
>>> I am implementing this now. The letter went out on Friday to most
>>> customers...
>>>
>>> On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
 Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
 continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else out
yet.

 Regards,

 Chuck


 On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
 mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
wrote:

 Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them? I suppose
 if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
 more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
 capitalize on something.

 Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
 cable companies, for example.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373


 On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg>>> > wrote:

 25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.

 Regards,

 Chuck



 On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt>>> > wrote:

 > Robert
 > up/down/aggregate
 > 103972 MB 469598 MB 573570 MB
 >
 > The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April. Paying $53.32 for
 4 megabits down.
 >
 > I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my
 previous email, but if
 > anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps
 you are using I
 > would greatly appreciate it.

 What is cost per megabit from your upstream?




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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
---

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Mark Nash]

I'll send you the letter offline since you're a WISPA member...

On 5/3/2011 6:05 AM, Stuart Pierce wrote:
> I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth caps and 
> costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not charging for them 
> at this point. You also have to have some method of giving feedback to them 
> on their bandwidth consumption.
>
> Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script for a 
> Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email the client 
> when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want the content of 
> the email to say.
>
> What did your letter say ?
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Mark Nash
> Reply-To: WISPA General List
> Date:  Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>
>> I think it's important for people to (after gaining an understanding of
>> the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
>>
>> 1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that allows
>> for more&  costs more), or
>> 2. change their behavior to not use so much
>> 3. leave
>>
>> I am implementing this now.  The letter went out on Friday to most
>> customers...
>>
>> On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>> Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
>>> continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else out yet.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
>>> mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them?  I suppose
>>>  if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
>>>  more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
>>>  capitalize on something.
>>>
>>>  Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
>>>  cable companies, for example.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Josh Luthman
>>>  Office: 937-552-2340
>>>  Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>  1100 Wayne St
>>>  Suite 1337
>>>  Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg>>  >  wrote:
>>>
>>>  25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.
>>>
>>>  Regards,
>>>
>>>  Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt>>  >  wrote:
>>>
>>>  >  Robert
>>>  >  up/down/aggregate
>>>  >  103972 MB   469598 MB   573570 MB
>>>  >
>>>  >  The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April.  Paying $53.32 for
>>>  4 megabits down.
>>>  >
>>>  >  I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my
>>>  previous email, but if
>>>  >  anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps
>>>  you are using I
>>>  >  would greatly appreciate it.
>>>
>>>  What is cost per megabit from your upstream?
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>  http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>  
>>> 
>>>
>>>  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>  
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>>> 
>>>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wis

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

8 meg package is not offered to residential customers, only to business 
customers.We still get crazy people who want 8meg in the middle of 
nowhere, eight hops away from our NOC - so we decided it was best not to 
advertise it.


When we rollout some more AirMax, we are going to revise this and add 
6,12 and 16meg plans for residential in the places where we have AirMax 
deployed and enough backbone to deliver it.


Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

On 5/3/2011 1:30 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
I did read that just yesterday, Matt.  I noticed you don't have the 8 
meg package on your website =P


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists 
mailto:li...@manageisp.com>> wrote:


I have a very detailed breakdown of what we did to solve the UBB
problem on my Wireless Cowboys blog.   You can read it here:

http://www.wirelesscowboys.com/?p=88

We went the NetFlow method and correlate customer IP addresses to
their Freeside accounts to see who gets billed.   Right now, the
list of violators is pretty small so we do the overage billing
manually.We have the option of building a batch transaction
that gets imported into our billing system on the first of each
month.We also built a portal for users to check their own
bandwidth utilization, and our system sends emails to users when
they go over and a summary email to our techs with a list of all
the people that are over.

Hope that helps.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com <http://vistabeam.com>
www.wirelesscowboys.com <http://www.wirelesscowboys.com>



On 5/3/2011 12:00 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:

What happens if/when you reboot the MT? Don't you lose your
counts? I would think a better idea would be to use traffic flow
and an external NetFlow analyzer. We are working on this for
Wispmon as another way (other than radius accounting) to do usage
based billing with the product. The downside to this is that the
"Traffic Flow" stream as they call it, does not output the mac
field (even though one is available according to the NetFlow
spec). So if you are using DHCP, it becomes harder to track with
this method as you would have to constantly poll the routers to
find out what mac they are attached to. RADIUS is fairly
cumbersome too as you have to sum all the accounting sessions for
a given user over a given time period.

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Josh Luthman
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

Joe - http://www.mikrotik-routeros.com/?p=24


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 

1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Joe Miller
mailto:joe.mil...@dslbyair.com>> wrote:

Can this script be made available for everyone?

Joe Miller
DSLbyAir, LLC
228-831-8881 
www.dslbyair.com <http://www.dslbyair.com>
- Original Message -
From: "Stuart Pierce" mailto:spie...@avolve.net>>
To: "WISPA General List" mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
        Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:05 AM
    Subject: Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB
research. You should
too.


> I've been saying for a while now that you have to have
bandwidth caps and
> costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are
not charging for
> them at this point. You also have to have some method
of giving feedback
> to them on their bandwidth consumption.
>
> Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew
Cox's script for a
> Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It
will email the client
> when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you
want the content of
> the email to say.
>
> What did your letter say ?
>
> -- Original Message
--
> From: Mark Nash mailto:markl...@uwol.net>>
> Reply-To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
> Date:  Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>
>>I think it's important for people to (after gaining an
understanding of
>>the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one
of these...
>>
>>1. pay more (either by overages or a different service
plan that allo

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Josh Luthman]

I did read that just yesterday, Matt.  I noticed you don't have the 8 meg
package on your website =P

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:

>  I have a very detailed breakdown of what we did to solve the UBB problem
> on my Wireless Cowboys blog.   You can read it here:
>
> http://www.wirelesscowboys.com/?p=88
>
> We went the NetFlow method and correlate customer IP addresses to their
> Freeside accounts to see who gets billed.   Right now, the list of violators
> is pretty small so we do the overage billing manually.We have the option
> of building a batch transaction that gets imported into our billing system
> on the first of each month.We also built a portal for users to check
> their own bandwidth utilization, and our system sends emails to users when
> they go over and a summary email to our techs with a list of all the people
> that are over.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
> www.wirelesscowboys.com
>
>
>
> On 5/3/2011 12:00 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>
> What happens if/when you reboot the MT? Don't you lose your counts? I would
> think a better idea would be to use traffic flow and an external NetFlow
> analyzer. We are working on this for Wispmon as another way (other than
> radius accounting) to do usage based billing with the product. The downside
> to this is that the "Traffic Flow" stream as they call it, does not output
> the mac field (even though one is available according to the NetFlow spec).
> So if you are using DHCP, it becomes harder to track with this method as you
> would have to constantly poll the routers to find out what mac they are
> attached to. RADIUS is fairly cumbersome too as you have to sum all the
> accounting sessions for a given user over a given time period.
>
> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> Joe - http://www.mikrotik-routeros.com/?p=24
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>  Direct: 937-552-2343
>>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>   On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Joe Miller wrote:
>>
>>> Can this script be made available for everyone?
>>>
>>> Joe Miller
>>> DSLbyAir, LLC
>>> 228-831-8881
>>> www.dslbyair.com
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Stuart Pierce" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>>  Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:05 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should
>>> too.
>>>
>>>
>>> > I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth caps
>>> and
>>> > costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not charging
>>> for
>>> > them at this point. You also have to have some method of giving
>>> feedback
>>> > to them on their bandwidth consumption.
>>> >
>>> > Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script for
>>> a
>>> > Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email the
>>> client
>>> > when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want the content
>>> of
>>> > the email to say.
>>> >
>>> > What did your letter say ?
>>> >
>>> > -- Original Message --
>>> > From: Mark Nash 
>>> > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>>> > Date:  Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>>> >
>>> >>I think it's important for people to (after gaining an understanding of
>>> >>the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
>>> >>
>>> >>1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that allows
>>> >>for more & costs more), or
>>> >>2. change their behavior to not use so much
>>> >>3. leave
>>> >>
>>> >>I am implementing this now.  The letter went out on Friday to most
>>> >>customers...
>>> >>
>>> >>On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>> >>> Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
>>> >>> continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else out
>>> yet.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Regards,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Chuck
&

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

I have a very detailed breakdown of what we did to solve the UBB problem 
on my Wireless Cowboys blog.   You can read it here:


http://www.wirelesscowboys.com/?p=88

We went the NetFlow method and correlate customer IP addresses to their 
Freeside accounts to see who gets billed.   Right now, the list of 
violators is pretty small so we do the overage billing manually.We 
have the option of building a batch transaction that gets imported into 
our billing system on the first of each month.We also built a portal 
for users to check their own bandwidth utilization, and our system sends 
emails to users when they go over and a summary email to our techs with 
a list of all the people that are over.


Hope that helps.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com
www.wirelesscowboys.com


On 5/3/2011 12:00 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
What happens if/when you reboot the MT? Don't you lose your counts? I 
would think a better idea would be to use traffic flow and an external 
NetFlow analyzer. We are working on this for Wispmon as another way 
(other than radius accounting) to do usage based billing with the 
product. The downside to this is that the "Traffic Flow" stream as 
they call it, does not output the mac field (even though one is 
available according to the NetFlow spec). So if you are using DHCP, it 
becomes harder to track with this method as you would have to 
constantly poll the routers to find out what mac they are attached to. 
RADIUS is fairly cumbersome too as you have to sum all the accounting 
sessions for a given user over a given time period.


On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


Joe - http://www.mikrotik-routeros.com/?p=24


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343

1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Joe Miller
mailto:joe.mil...@dslbyair.com>> wrote:

Can this script be made available for everyone?

Joe Miller
DSLbyAir, LLC
228-831-8881 
www.dslbyair.com <http://www.dslbyair.com>
- Original Message -
From: "Stuart Pierce" mailto:spie...@avolve.net>>
To: "WISPA General List" mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
    Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:05 AM
    Subject: Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research.
You should
too.


> I've been saying for a while now that you have to have
bandwidth caps and
> costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not
charging for
> them at this point. You also have to have some method of
giving feedback
> to them on their bandwidth consumption.
>
> Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's
script for a
> Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will
email the client
> when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want
the content of
> the email to say.
>
> What did your letter say ?
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Mark Nash mailto:markl...@uwol.net>>
> Reply-To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
> Date:  Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>
>>I think it's important for people to (after gaining an
understanding of
>>the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of
these...
>>
>>1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan
that allows
>>for more & costs more), or
>>2. change their behavior to not use so much
>>3. leave
>>
>>I am implementing this now.  The letter went out on Friday
to most
>>customers...
>>
>>On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>> Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough
spectrum to
>>> continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything
else out yet.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
>>> mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them?
 I suppose
>>> if the customer wants to simply be throttled back
instead of pay
   

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Josh Luthman]

IIRC change the config variables at the top, copy and paste.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 9:00 PM, Joe Miller  wrote:

>  Thanks Josh...I think that this is what I'm looking for. Now to figure
> out how to get it loaded.
> Joe Miller
> DSLbyAir, LLC
> 228-831-8881
> www.dslbyair.com
>
> - Original Message -
>  *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *To:* WISPA General List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:25 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should
> too.
>
> Joe - http://www.mikrotik-routeros.com/?p=24
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Joe Miller wrote:
>
>> Can this script be made available for everyone?
>>
>> Joe Miller
>> DSLbyAir, LLC
>> 228-831-8881
>> www.dslbyair.com
>> - Original Message -----
>> From: "Stuart Pierce" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should
>> too.
>>
>>
>> > I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth caps
>> and
>> > costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not charging for
>> > them at this point. You also have to have some method of giving feedback
>> > to them on their bandwidth consumption.
>> >
>> > Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script for
>> a
>> > Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email the
>> client
>> > when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want the content
>> of
>> > the email to say.
>> >
>> > What did your letter say ?
>> >
>> > -- Original Message --
>> > From: Mark Nash 
>> > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> > Date:  Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>> >
>> >>I think it's important for people to (after gaining an understanding of
>> >>the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
>> >>
>> >>1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that allows
>> >>for more & costs more), or
>> >>2. change their behavior to not use so much
>> >>3. leave
>> >>
>> >>I am implementing this now.  The letter went out on Friday to most
>> >>customers...
>> >>
>> >>On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>> >>> Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
>> >>> continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else out
>> yet.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> Chuck
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
>> >>> mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them?  I suppose
>> >>> if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
>> >>> more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
>> >>> capitalize on something.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
>> >>> cable companies, for example.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Josh Luthman
>> >>> Office: 937-552-2340 
>> >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 
>> >>> 1100 Wayne St
>> >>> Suite 1337
>> >>> Troy, OH 45373
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg > >>> <mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> 25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> Chuck
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt > >>> <mailto:lm7...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Joe Miller]

Thanks Josh...I think that this is what I'm looking for. Now to figure out how 
to get it loaded.
Joe Miller
DSLbyAir, LLC
228-831-8881
www.dslbyair.com
  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.


  Joe - http://www.mikrotik-routeros.com/?p=24

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373



  On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Joe Miller  wrote:

Can this script be made available for everyone?

Joe Miller
DSLbyAir, LLC
228-831-8881
www.dslbyair.com

- Original Message -
From: "Stuart Pierce" 
To: "WISPA General List" 

Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:05 AM
    Subject: Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should
too.



> I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth caps and
> costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not charging for
> them at this point. You also have to have some method of giving feedback
> to them on their bandwidth consumption.
>
> Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script for a
> Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email the client
> when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want the content of
> the email to say.
>
> What did your letter say ?
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Mark Nash 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>
>>I think it's important for people to (after gaining an understanding of
>>the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
>>
>>1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that allows
>>for more & costs more), or
>>2. change their behavior to not use so much
>>3. leave
>>
>>I am implementing this now.  The letter went out on Friday to most
>>customers...
>>
>>On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>> Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
>>> continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else out yet.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
>>> mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them?  I suppose
>>> if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
>>> more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
>>> capitalize on something.
>>>
>>> Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
>>> cable companies, for example.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340 
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg >> <mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt >> <mailto:lm7...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Robert
>>> > up/down/aggregate
>>> > 103972 MB   469598 MB   573570 MB
>>> >
>>> > The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April.  Paying $53.32 for
>>> 4 megabits down.
>>> >
>>> > I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my
>>> previous email, but if
>>> > anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps
>>> you are using I
>>> > would greatly appreciate it.
>>>
>>> What is cost per megabit from your upstream?
>>>
>>>
>>> 
-

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Matt]

> So you're saying 120 because, based on your network:

> 1 mbit fiber = 120 gigabytes bandwidth

It can actually it can do 150G up and 150G down.  But due to uploads
being more expensive on a GPS network and peaks and lows I figure
120G.

> So to parallel
>
> 50mbit fiber = 6000 gigabytes bandwidth
>
> $10/mbit / 6000 gigs transported = 8.3c per gig
>
> Is that right?

Yes, that works but easier to do:

$10 / 120 = 8.3 cents a gig.

On my backbones my average inbound traffic is about 40 percent of my
peak on the daily graph.  What is everybody else at?



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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Josh Luthman]

Data is "stored" in the comment of the queue.  Requires 4.something
On May 3, 2011 2:01 PM, "Cameron Crum"  wrote:
> What happens if/when you reboot the MT? Don't you lose your counts? I
would
> think a better idea would be to use traffic flow and an external NetFlow
> analyzer. We are working on this for Wispmon as another way (other than
> radius accounting) to do usage based billing with the product. The
downside
> to this is that the "Traffic Flow" stream as they call it, does not output
> the mac field (even though one is available according to the NetFlow
spec).
> So if you are using DHCP, it becomes harder to track with this method as
you
> would have to constantly poll the routers to find out what mac they are
> attached to. RADIUS is fairly cumbersome too as you have to sum all the
> accounting sessions for a given user over a given time period.
>
> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Josh Luthman
> wrote:
>
>> Joe - http://www.mikrotik-routeros.com/?p=24
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Joe Miller wrote:
>>
>>> Can this script be made available for everyone?
>>>
>>> Joe Miller
>>> DSLbyAir, LLC
>>> 228-831-8881
>>> www.dslbyair.com
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Stuart Pierce" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:05 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should
>>> too.
>>>
>>>
>>> > I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth caps
>>> and
>>> > costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not charging
for
>>> > them at this point. You also have to have some method of giving
feedback
>>> > to them on their bandwidth consumption.
>>> >
>>> > Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script
for
>>> a
>>> > Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email the
>>> client
>>> > when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want the
content
>>> of
>>> > the email to say.
>>> >
>>> > What did your letter say ?
>>> >
>>> > -- Original Message --
>>> > From: Mark Nash 
>>> > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>>> > Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>>> >
>>> >>I think it's important for people to (after gaining an understanding
of
>>> >>the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
>>> >>
>>> >>1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that
allows
>>> >>for more & costs more), or
>>> >>2. change their behavior to not use so much
>>> >>3. leave
>>> >>
>>> >>I am implementing this now. The letter went out on Friday to most
>>> >>customers...
>>> >>
>>> >>On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>> >>> Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
>>> >>> continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else out
>>> yet.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Regards,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Chuck
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
>>> >>> mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them? I suppose
>>> >>> if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
>>> >>> more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
>>> >>> capitalize on something.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
>>> >>> cable companies, for example.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Josh Luthman
>>> >>> Office: 937-552-2340 
>>> >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 
>>> >>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> >>> Suite 1337
>>> >>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> >>>
>>> >>&

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Cameron Crum]

What happens if/when you reboot the MT? Don't you lose your counts? I would
think a better idea would be to use traffic flow and an external NetFlow
analyzer. We are working on this for Wispmon as another way (other than
radius accounting) to do usage based billing with the product. The downside
to this is that the "Traffic Flow" stream as they call it, does not output
the mac field (even though one is available according to the NetFlow spec).
So if you are using DHCP, it becomes harder to track with this method as you
would have to constantly poll the routers to find out what mac they are
attached to. RADIUS is fairly cumbersome too as you have to sum all the
accounting sessions for a given user over a given time period.

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Josh Luthman
wrote:

> Joe - http://www.mikrotik-routeros.com/?p=24
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Joe Miller wrote:
>
>> Can this script be made available for everyone?
>>
>> Joe Miller
>> DSLbyAir, LLC
>> 228-831-8881
>> www.dslbyair.com
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Stuart Pierce" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should
>> too.
>>
>>
>> > I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth caps
>> and
>> > costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not charging for
>> > them at this point. You also have to have some method of giving feedback
>> > to them on their bandwidth consumption.
>> >
>> > Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script for
>> a
>> > Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email the
>> client
>> > when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want the content
>> of
>> > the email to say.
>> >
>> > What did your letter say ?
>> >
>> > -- Original Message --
>> > From: Mark Nash 
>> > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> > Date:  Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>> >
>> >>I think it's important for people to (after gaining an understanding of
>> >>the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
>> >>
>> >>1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that allows
>> >>for more & costs more), or
>> >>2. change their behavior to not use so much
>> >>3. leave
>> >>
>> >>I am implementing this now.  The letter went out on Friday to most
>> >>customers...
>> >>
>> >>On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>> >>> Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
>> >>> continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else out
>> yet.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> Chuck
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
>> >>> mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them?  I suppose
>> >>> if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
>> >>> more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
>> >>> capitalize on something.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
>> >>> cable companies, for example.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Josh Luthman
>> >>> Office: 937-552-2340 
>> >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 
>> >>> 1100 Wayne St
>> >>> Suite 1337
>> >>> Troy, OH 45373
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg > >>> <mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> 25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> Chuck
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt > >>>   

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Josh Luthman]

Joe - http://www.mikrotik-routeros.com/?p=24

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Joe Miller  wrote:

> Can this script be made available for everyone?
>
> Joe Miller
> DSLbyAir, LLC
> 228-831-8881
> www.dslbyair.com
> - Original Message -
> From: "Stuart Pierce" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should
> too.
>
>
> > I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth caps and
> > costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not charging for
> > them at this point. You also have to have some method of giving feedback
> > to them on their bandwidth consumption.
> >
> > Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script for a
> > Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email the client
> > when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want the content
> of
> > the email to say.
> >
> > What did your letter say ?
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: Mark Nash 
> > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> > Date:  Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
> >
> >>I think it's important for people to (after gaining an understanding of
> >>the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
> >>
> >>1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that allows
> >>for more & costs more), or
> >>2. change their behavior to not use so much
> >>3. leave
> >>
> >>I am implementing this now.  The letter went out on Friday to most
> >>customers...
> >>
> >>On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> >>> Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
> >>> continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else out
> yet.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Chuck
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
> >>> mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them?  I suppose
> >>> if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
> >>> more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
> >>> capitalize on something.
> >>>
> >>> Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
> >>> cable companies, for example.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Josh Luthman
> >>> Office: 937-552-2340 
> >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 
> >>> 1100 Wayne St
> >>> Suite 1337
> >>> Troy, OH 45373
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg  >>> <mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> 25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Chuck
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt  >>> <mailto:lm7...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > Robert
> >>> > up/down/aggregate
> >>> > 103972 MB   469598 MB   573570 MB
> >>> >
> >>> > The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April.  Paying $53.32 for
> >>> 4 megabits down.
> >>> >
> >>> > I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my
> >>> previous email, but if
> >>> > anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps
> >>> you are using I
> >>> > would greatly appreciate it.
> >>>
> >>> What is cost per megabit from your upstream?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> 
> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>>
> -

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Josh Luthman]

So you're saying 120 because, based on your network:

1 mbit fiber = 120 gigabytes bandwidth

So to parallel

50mbit fiber = 6000 gigabytes bandwidth

$10/mbit / 6000 gigs transported = 8.3c per gig

Is that right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Matt  wrote:

> > Matt,
> >
> > Where did you come up with dividing the cost per megabit by 120?
>
> 1Mbps can upload and download 300Gbyte in a month each way.  You must
> figure in your peak and off peak.  In the end 120 works out pretty
> well.  Doing the math on X number of users on an X sized circuit that
> was due to be upgraded the math came out right as well.  Total user
> GByte consumption was roughly 120GByte per megabit used.  This is with
> user upload and download added together.  As more users push there
> usage towards prime time even more 120 may need to be lowered a bit.
>
> Too verify this add up all the bandwidth usage of all your users on a
> given circuit for month.  Upload and download.  Look at the graph of
> the circuit and divide the total GByte used in month by the peak Mbps
> for that month.
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Joe Miller]

Can this script be made available for everyone?

Joe Miller
DSLbyAir, LLC
228-831-8881
www.dslbyair.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Stuart Pierce" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should 
too.


> I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth caps and 
> costs stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not charging for 
> them at this point. You also have to have some method of giving feedback 
> to them on their bandwidth consumption.
>
> Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script for a 
> Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email the client 
> when they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want the content of 
> the email to say.
>
> What did your letter say ?
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Mark Nash 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700
>
>>I think it's important for people to (after gaining an understanding of
>>the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
>>
>>1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that allows
>>for more & costs more), or
>>2. change their behavior to not use so much
>>3. leave
>>
>>I am implementing this now.  The letter went out on Friday to most
>>customers...
>>
>>On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>> Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
>>> continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else out yet.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman
>>> mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them?  I suppose
>>> if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
>>> more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
>>> capitalize on something.
>>>
>>> Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
>>> cable companies, for example.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340 
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg >> <mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt >> <mailto:lm7...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Robert
>>> > up/down/aggregate
>>> > 103972 MB   469598 MB   573570 MB
>>> >
>>> > The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April.  Paying $53.32 for
>>> 4 megabits down.
>>> >
>>> > I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my
>>> previous email, but if
>>> > anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps
>>> you are using I
>>> > would greatly appreciate it.
>>>
>>> What is cost per megabit from your upstream?
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>> ---

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Matt]

> Matt,
>
> Where did you come up with dividing the cost per megabit by 120?

1Mbps can upload and download 300Gbyte in a month each way.  You must
figure in your peak and off peak.  In the end 120 works out pretty
well.  Doing the math on X number of users on an X sized circuit that
was due to be upgraded the math came out right as well.  Total user
GByte consumption was roughly 120GByte per megabit used.  This is with
user upload and download added together.  As more users push there
usage towards prime time even more 120 may need to be lowered a bit.

Too verify this add up all the bandwidth usage of all your users on a
given circuit for month.  Upload and download.  Look at the graph of
the circuit and divide the total GByte used in month by the peak Mbps
for that month.



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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Josh Luthman]

Matt,

Where did you come up with dividing the cost per megabit by 120?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Matt  wrote:

> >>What is cost per megabit from your upstream?
>
> Divide your cost per megabit by 120 to get a good idea of your cost
> per gigabit at the NOC.  If your paying $20 per megabit you would be
> at 0.17$ per GByte.
>
> Figuring your cost on the wireless network is nearly impossible.  I am
> considering:
>
> Total cost of AP and BH wireless gear at site and used to feed site.
> Divided by 24 months.  Add any rental.  Divided by your total max
> available bandwidth.  Divided by 2.  Gives cost Mbps.
>
> A site could be six canopy 2.4 AP's and a CMM.  Total max available
> bandwidth would be 60Mbps.  Guessing prices.  Bandwidth is 20$ Mbps.
> Price per GByte is 0.18$  I think that's too low but I did not
> figure/guess any BH gear cost.
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Josh Luthman]

As far as this bandwidth limiting stuff, I would suggest you guys look in to
Butch Evans' QOS script for MT.  Maybe ImageStream, too (I know there was a
port in progress).  It does this and as far as I know has worked flawlessly.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Marco Coelho  wrote:

> Has anybody worked on allowing streaming video up to lets say 10 Mb total
> transfer, then knocking THAT stream down to a slow rate?
> This would allow for your average utube streaming of a small video, but
> kill anything larger like netflix, hulu, etc.
>
> IP Tables and a dynamic script should be able to do this.
>
>
> Marco
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> Robert
>> up/down/aggregate
>> 103972 MB   469598 MB   573570 MB
>>
>> The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April.  Paying $53.32 for 4 megabits down.
>>
>> I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my previous email, but if
>> anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps you are using I
>> would greatly appreciate it.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Marco C. Coelho
> Argon Technologies Inc.
> POB 875
> Greenville, TX 75403-0875
> 903-455-5036
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Stuart Pierce]

There has always been talk about the internet using a utility billing model, in 
which there is a minimum usage and then charged for anything over the minimum. 
Such as I pay for water, I get 3000 gallons for one price, anything over is 
charged by gallon. 

Electricity, Natural Gas and water all do this and now you see electric 
utilities giving you feedback to what you are using, smart metering. I suspect 
gas and water will follow suit, but being in the technical industry, there is 
no reason now that you can't be giving the client that information as well.

-- Original Message --
From: Mark Nash 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Mon, 02 May 2011 15:54:54 -0700

>To follow through some thinking here...
>
>If that device was "Billing-Server-Package-Aware" then you could offer a 
>higher level of service for HD customers that allowed the Netflix 
>service to sense a "higher-bandwidth" connection and it may be more 
>likely to stream in HD than SD.  I say "offer"...the flip side of 
>"offer" is "charge for", at a higher rate, of course.
>
>There are always those who "gotta have it"...
>
>On 5/2/2011 3:50 PM, David E. Smith wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 17:32, Marco Coelho > > wrote:
>>
>> Has anybody worked on allowing streaming video up to lets say 10
>> Mb total transfer, then knocking THAT stream down to a slow rate?
>>
>>
>> I tried something like that a while back - we got so very many angry 
>> phone calls that the boss had us discontinue it in less than a week. 
>> We actually didn't try to limit by video type, just "any single 
>> ongoing TCP transaction," but in practice it only affected audio and 
>> video streaming, Microsoft Update, and MMO patches.
>>
>> I'm sure someone out there would be glad to sell you a content-aware 
>> filtering device for many thousands of dollars, if you're so inclined.
>>
>> David Smith
>> MVN.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>
>
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>
 





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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Stuart Pierce]

I've been saying for a while now that you have to have bandwidth caps and costs 
stated on your website somewhere, even if you are not charging for them at this 
point. You also have to have some method of giving feedback to them on their 
bandwidth consumption.

Right now thanks to Josh for the heads up about Andrew Cox's script for a 
Mikrotik box, I've done that and so far so good. It will email the client when 
they reach percentages of usage with whatever you want the content of the email 
to say.

What did your letter say ? 

-- Original Message --
From: Mark Nash 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Mon, 02 May 2011 10:34:01 -0700

>I think it's important for people to (after gaining an understanding of 
>the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
>
>1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that allows 
>for more & costs more), or
>2. change their behavior to not use so much
>3. leave
>
>I am implementing this now.  The letter went out on Friday to most 
>customers...
>
>On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>> Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to 
>> continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else out yet.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman 
>> mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them?  I suppose
>> if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
>> more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
>> capitalize on something.
>>
>> Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
>> cable companies, for example.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg > > wrote:
>>
>> 25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt > > wrote:
>>
>> > Robert
>> > up/down/aggregate
>> > 103972 MB   469598 MB   573570 MB
>> >
>> > The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April.  Paying $53.32 for
>> 4 megabits down.
>> >
>> > I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my
>> previous email, but if
>> > anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps
>> you are using I
>> > would greatly appreciate it.
>>
>> What is cost per megabit from your upstream?
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>
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>> 
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---

Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Stuart Pierce]

I had someone just yesterday after learning they were burning through their 
20gig limit in 10 days, think about giving up their cable bill of $30 and just 
pay me that money to watch shows. Until I told him that an HD movie would be 
anywhere from 1.5-2gigs. Although I will have to think about this more, because 
you are basically now a premium 'real' ON-Demand video service. You definitely 
have to be running some sort of polling AP with plenty of bandwidth and have to 
big infrastructure emergency plans.

-- Original Message --
From: Josh Luthman 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Mon, 2 May 2011 13:21:57 -0400

>Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them?  I suppose if the
>customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay more, that's one
>thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to capitalize on something.
>
>Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from cable
>companies, for example.
>
>Josh Luthman
>Office: 937-552-2340
>Direct: 937-552-2343
>1100 Wayne St
>Suite 1337
>Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>
>> 25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt  wrote:
>>
>>> > Robert
>>> > up/down/aggregate
>>> > 103972 MB   469598 MB   573570 MB
>>> >
>>> > The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April.  Paying $53.32 for 4 megabits
>>> down.
>>> >
>>> > I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my previous email, but
>>> if
>>> > anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps you are using I
>>> > would greatly appreciate it.
>>>
>>> What is cost per megabit from your upstream?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Mark Nash]

To follow through some thinking here...

If that device was "Billing-Server-Package-Aware" then you could offer a 
higher level of service for HD customers that allowed the Netflix 
service to sense a "higher-bandwidth" connection and it may be more 
likely to stream in HD than SD.  I say "offer"...the flip side of 
"offer" is "charge for", at a higher rate, of course.


There are always those who "gotta have it"...

On 5/2/2011 3:50 PM, David E. Smith wrote:


On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 17:32, Marco Coelho > wrote:


Has anybody worked on allowing streaming video up to lets say 10
Mb total transfer, then knocking THAT stream down to a slow rate?


I tried something like that a while back - we got so very many angry 
phone calls that the boss had us discontinue it in less than a week. 
We actually didn't try to limit by video type, just "any single 
ongoing TCP transaction," but in practice it only affected audio and 
video streaming, Microsoft Update, and MMO patches.


I'm sure someone out there would be glad to sell you a content-aware 
filtering device for many thousands of dollars, if you're so inclined.


David Smith
MVN.net





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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[David E. Smith]

On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 17:32, Marco Coelho  wrote:

> Has anybody worked on allowing streaming video up to lets say 10 Mb total
> transfer, then knocking THAT stream down to a slow rate?
>

I tried something like that a while back - we got so very many angry phone
calls that the boss had us discontinue it in less than a week. We actually
didn't try to limit by video type, just "any single ongoing TCP
transaction," but in practice it only affected audio and video streaming,
Microsoft Update, and MMO patches.

I'm sure someone out there would be glad to sell you a content-aware
filtering device for many thousands of dollars, if you're so inclined.

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Marco Coelho]

Has anybody worked on allowing streaming video up to lets say 10 Mb total
transfer, then knocking THAT stream down to a slow rate?
This would allow for your average utube streaming of a small video, but kill
anything larger like netflix, hulu, etc.

IP Tables and a dynamic script should be able to do this.


Marco



On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Josh Luthman
wrote:

> Robert
> up/down/aggregate
> 103972 MB   469598 MB   573570 MB
>
> The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April.  Paying $53.32 for 4 megabits down.
>
> I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my previous email, but if
> anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps you are using I
> would greatly appreciate it.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>



-- 
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036



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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Mark Nash]

This is even more of a difficult equation, because as ISPs, WE typically 
are not billed by the GB from OUR upstream providers.  We are billed, 
generally-speaking, by one of two mechanisms:

1. Pipe speed... You pay for 50mbps and that's what you get.  It doesn't 
matter if you only use 20, and if you hit 50 then the network bogs down. 
But a FIXED bandwidth cost, no danger of going over.

2. High water mark...Commit amount and burst over...usually billed at 
95th percentile... In this case you can go at whatever speeds your 
transports and upstream will allow, and you are billed based on a high 
water mark for usage.  In this case, there is a danger that you will be 
billed more by YOUR ISP but your network won't be congested at the 
upstream point.  Here, from purely an upstream bandwidth cost 
perspective, it ONLY matters what people are doing at PEAK times.

Our upstream agreement is a #2. (I know that makes a pun but we'll just 
flush that one right now)...  The mechanism we have in place only deals 
with total monthly GB transferred, not peak time usage, so by placing in 
a monthly total GB limitation, we are not being very accurate to cost, 
but we ARE trying to have our customer be aware that they are bandwidth 
hogs and they need to pay or change or leave.  It's at least a step in 
the right direction.



On 5/2/2011 2:59 PM, Sam Tetherow wrote:
> Haven't run the numbers, but it doesn't look like this number is taking
> into consideration staff cost, other overhead such administrative cost,
> insurance, non-wireless gear and most importantly a reasonable profit
> margin.
>
> Looking at it from the other direction,  I currently spend about 20% of
> opex on bandwidth.  Granted an user increasing bandwidth doesn't cost me
> more in administrative (once we account for UBB), insurance and other
> non-transport costs, but you do have to remember there is a significant
> cost to running the network outside of gear and bandwidth so if you
> figure out the cost per GB to deliver to the customer and all of a
> sudden the majority start nearing their cap consistently it will be
> eating into your paycheck.
>
> On 5/2/11 4:48 PM, Matt wrote:
 What is cost per megabit from your upstream?
>> Divide your cost per megabit by 120 to get a good idea of your cost
>> per gigabit at the NOC.  If your paying $20 per megabit you would be
>> at 0.17$ per GByte.
>>
>> Figuring your cost on the wireless network is nearly impossible.  I am
>> considering:
>>
>> Total cost of AP and BH wireless gear at site and used to feed site.
>> Divided by 24 months.  Add any rental.  Divided by your total max
>> available bandwidth.  Divided by 2.  Gives cost Mbps.
>>
>> A site could be six canopy 2.4 AP's and a CMM.  Total max available
>> bandwidth would be 60Mbps.  Guessing prices.  Bandwidth is 20$ Mbps.
>> Price per GByte is 0.18$  I think that's too low but I did not
>> figure/guess any BH gear cost.
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Sam Tetherow]

Haven't run the numbers, but it doesn't look like this number is taking 
into consideration staff cost, other overhead such administrative cost, 
insurance, non-wireless gear and most importantly a reasonable profit 
margin.

Looking at it from the other direction,  I currently spend about 20% of 
opex on bandwidth.  Granted an user increasing bandwidth doesn't cost me 
more in administrative (once we account for UBB), insurance and other 
non-transport costs, but you do have to remember there is a significant 
cost to running the network outside of gear and bandwidth so if you 
figure out the cost per GB to deliver to the customer and all of a 
sudden the majority start nearing their cap consistently it will be 
eating into your paycheck.

On 5/2/11 4:48 PM, Matt wrote:
>>> What is cost per megabit from your upstream?
> Divide your cost per megabit by 120 to get a good idea of your cost
> per gigabit at the NOC.  If your paying $20 per megabit you would be
> at 0.17$ per GByte.
>
> Figuring your cost on the wireless network is nearly impossible.  I am
> considering:
>
> Total cost of AP and BH wireless gear at site and used to feed site.
> Divided by 24 months.  Add any rental.  Divided by your total max
> available bandwidth.  Divided by 2.  Gives cost Mbps.
>
> A site could be six canopy 2.4 AP's and a CMM.  Total max available
> bandwidth would be 60Mbps.  Guessing prices.  Bandwidth is 20$ Mbps.
> Price per GByte is 0.18$  I think that's too low but I did not
> figure/guess any BH gear cost.
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Matt]

>>What is cost per megabit from your upstream?

Divide your cost per megabit by 120 to get a good idea of your cost
per gigabit at the NOC.  If your paying $20 per megabit you would be
at 0.17$ per GByte.

Figuring your cost on the wireless network is nearly impossible.  I am
considering:

Total cost of AP and BH wireless gear at site and used to feed site.
Divided by 24 months.  Add any rental.  Divided by your total max
available bandwidth.  Divided by 2.  Gives cost Mbps.

A site could be six canopy 2.4 AP's and a CMM.  Total max available
bandwidth would be 60Mbps.  Guessing prices.  Bandwidth is 20$ Mbps.
Price per GByte is 0.18$  I think that's too low but I did not
figure/guess any BH gear cost.



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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Josh Luthman]

Chuck - Right or wrong is arguable, but if you don't have the spectrum then
I would do the same thing you are.  I would argue it is right - you're
offering equal service to people for important things (Facebook
[communicating with family]) instead of letting moochers (Netflix) have the
runway.

Mark - Once again, thank you very much for your information, as I find it
very valuable.  I do agree that's the way it will be.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Mark Nash  wrote:

>  I think it's important for people to (after gaining an understanding of
> the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...
>
> 1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that allows for
> more & costs more), or
> 2. change their behavior to not use so much
> 3. leave
>
> I am implementing this now.  The letter went out on Friday to most
> customers...
>
>
> On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>
> Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
> continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else out yet.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chuck
>
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them?  I suppose if the
>> customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay more, that's one
>> thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to capitalize on something.
>>
>> Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from cable
>> companies, for example.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>   On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>>
>>> 25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt  wrote:
>>>
 > Robert
 > up/down/aggregate
 > 103972 MB   469598 MB   573570 MB
 >
 > The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April.  Paying $53.32 for 4 megabits
 down.
 >
 > I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my previous email, but
 if
 > anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps you are using
 I
 > would greatly appreciate it.

  What is cost per megabit from your upstream?



 
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Mark Nash]

I think it's important for people to (after gaining an understanding of 
the impact they have on "shared" bandwidth) choose one of these...


1. pay more (either by overages or a different service plan that allows 
for more & costs more), or

2. change their behavior to not use so much
3. leave

I am implementing this now.  The letter went out on Friday to most 
customers...


On 5/2/2011 10:25 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to 
continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else out yet.


Regards,

Chuck


On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them?  I suppose
if the customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay
more, that's one thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to
capitalize on something.

Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from
cable companies, for example.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:

25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.

Regards,

Chuck



On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt mailto:lm7...@gmail.com>> wrote:

> Robert
> up/down/aggregate
> 103972 MB   469598 MB   573570 MB
>
> The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April.  Paying $53.32 for
4 megabits down.
>
> I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my
previous email, but if
> anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps
you are using I
> would greatly appreciate it.

What is cost per megabit from your upstream?




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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Chuck Hogg]

Not saying what I'm doing is right...I don't have enough spectrum to
continue to deliver the service...haven't figured anything else out yet.

Regards,

Chuck


On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them?  I suppose if the
> customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay more, that's one
> thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to capitalize on something.
>
> Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from cable
> companies, for example.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>
>> 25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt  wrote:
>>
>>> > Robert
>>> > up/down/aggregate
>>> > 103972 MB   469598 MB   573570 MB
>>> >
>>> > The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April.  Paying $53.32 for 4 megabits
>>> down.
>>> >
>>> > I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my previous email, but
>>> if
>>> > anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps you are using
>>> I
>>> > would greatly appreciate it.
>>>
>>> What is cost per megabit from your upstream?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Josh Luthman]

Why not collect more revenue instead of limiting them?  I suppose if the
customer wants to simply be throttled back instead of pay more, that's one
thing, but I imagine it makes more sense to capitalize on something.

Thinking along the lines of the on demand movies and stuff from cable
companies, for example.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> 25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt  wrote:
>
>> > Robert
>> > up/down/aggregate
>> > 103972 MB   469598 MB   573570 MB
>> >
>> > The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April.  Paying $53.32 for 4 megabits
>> down.
>> >
>> > I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my previous email, but
>> if
>> > anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps you are using I
>> > would greatly appreciate it.
>>
>> What is cost per megabit from your upstream?
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Chuck Hogg]

25GB per month. 128k/s after exceeding their limit.

Regards,

Chuck


On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Matt  wrote:

> > Robert
> > up/down/aggregate
> > 103972 MB   469598 MB   573570 MB
> >
> > The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April.  Paying $53.32 for 4 megabits down.
> >
> > I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my previous email, but if
> > anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps you are using I
> > would greatly appreciate it.
>
> What is cost per megabit from your upstream?
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] My day is now dedicated to UBB research. You should too.

[Matt]

> Robert
> up/down/aggregate
> 103972 MB   469598 MB   573570 MB
>
> The guy downloaded 470 gigs in April.  Paying $53.32 for 4 megabits down.
>
> I got no responses at all about monthly caps on my previous email, but if
> anyone could offer what bandwidth rates and monthly caps you are using I
> would greatly appreciate it.

What is cost per megabit from your upstream?



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